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Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility
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Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-17-2020, 07:09 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYeah, that is where I think the truth lies right now, and why the scapegoating ofvthecwhite house is over the top. But that very scape goating mentality is probably why china is denying #2. That is, the local authorities where such a mishap might have occurred would not only face the wrath of Trump and worldwide public opinion, they would likely also face an execution or worse from the top level Chinese government over it.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey don't even sell horseshoe bats in the market, which is the animal the virus came from.
While I think it is unlikely to have come from a lab, I do think we're reaching an age where that type of thing will not only be possible but also relatively easy to make and spread. Maybe its time to rethink how we permit access to the techniques and knowledge associated with this kind of genetic technology. It seems pretty clear that its a massive risk. Also, maybe improve preparations for a future event. Regulate it, heavily, like nuclear weapons.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postclose, but the top level government is where the coverup is coming from. But I wouldn't put it past them to blame some local scapegoat when the truth is no longer able to be hidden. The CCP has total control of all information and its dissemination.
But it would not surprise me of the top level authorities know the locals are lying and are content to report their lies and look the other way as the locals try to cover it up as long as no proof exists otherwise.
It's the old plausible deniability game. They look ok as long as there is not proof. And they look ok if the truth comes out and they feign indignation and punish the locals. Either way, it's in their best interests not to know in any concrete sense .
ETA: clearly neither of us knows. So I'm not stating my belief as fact, and I dont think you are necessarily wrong. Nor do I think your opinion on this could not be justified. I just lean the direction of my post above.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-17-2020, 08:46 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo, I think the local authorities are the source of the misinformation. The upper level authorities just report what the locals are saying knowing they can and will remove the locals if they are lying.
But it would not surprise me of the top level authorities know the locals are lying and are content to report their lies and look the other way as the locals try to cover it up as long as no proof exists otherwise.
It's the old plausible deniability game. They look ok as long as there is not proof. And they look ok if the truth comes out and they feign indignation and punish the locals. Either way, it's in their best interests not to know in any concrete sense .
ETA: clearly neither of us knows. So I'm not stating my belief as fact, and I dont think you are necessarily wrong. Nor do I think your opinion on this could not be justified. I just lean the direction of my post above.
But I think the CCP is the one doing the coverup because some of the doctors tried to warn the world and they "disappeared"
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo, I think the local authorities are the source of the misinformation. The upper level authorities just report what the locals are saying knowing they can and will remove the locals if they are lying.
But it would not surprise me of the top level authorities know the locals are lying and are content to report their lies and look the other way as the locals try to cover it up as long as no proof exists otherwise.
It's the old plausible deniability game. They look ok as long as there is not proof. And they look ok if the truth comes out and they feign indignation and punish the locals. Either way, it's in their best interests not to know in any concrete sense .
ETA: clearly neither of us knows. So I'm not stating my belief as fact, and I dont think you are necessarily wrong. Nor do I think your opinion on this could not be justified. I just lean the direction of my post above.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou're assuming a level of research independence I don't believe exists in China. I mean, I could be wrong since I've never been there nor know anyone who has, but I doubt a research lab, researching deadly viruses would go unchecked by the upper authorities in a place like China.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostYou're assuming a level of research independence I don't believe exists in China. I mean, I could be wrong since I've never been there nor know anyone who has, but I doubt a research lab, researching deadly viruses would go unchecked by the upper authorities in a place like China.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYou have the right to your opinion. And I am not diminishing the authoritarian, oppressive nature of the Chinese governmental system. In terms of governmental systems that would engage in a top down cover-up if necessary - they are one of them. But in a case like this, there is no direct need for the upper level authorities to be directing everything from above. The local authorities know they are responsible, and they know what will happen to them if they make a major mistake. And that is sufficient to produce everything we are observing.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostTrue. I am just tossing out what my thinking is.
But I think the CCP is the one doing the coverup because some of the doctors tried to warn the world and they "disappeared"My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAre you sure that wasn't just done at the local level? The first Doctor who died was harassed by local police, likely at the direction of local officials. If these other doctors that were 'disasppeared' covered a more national scope, then the evidence would lean your direction.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThey don't even sell horseshoe bats in the market, which is the animal the virus came from.
Despite the USA government is conducting an investigation concerning the possibility that the COVAG-19 originated in the Wuhan lab there is absolutely no direct evidence that the lab is the source.
I will go with the science and continue to cite science.Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-17-2020, 10:07 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYeah that does seem pretty plausible.
here is a news article saying pretty much the same thing with similar evidence:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...to-wuhan-labs/
None of her publicly available research papers are dated after 2015.
That sounds like she left the lab with her masters degree in hand and stopped engaging in research five years ago, which would neatly explain initial confusion with suggestions she was currently working there and indeed, was patient zero. If she was continuing research in the lab, she'd have published, but with a bare masters she wouldn't have published alone or as the lead author.
Any suggestion that her research has been scrubbed has a high bar to pass. I'm imagining someone scrubbing a paper because it listed me, and how that would go over with the names in front of me in the author list. The answer is, it wouldn't. It would be easier to get away with stealing their infant children.
From the photo in Tye's video, I'd say she was far and away the prettiest. I wouldn't be surprised to find that fact is skewing attention toward her. More, she's one of three whose pictures and bios have recently been removed. And lastly, Tye says himself that he got the name from the Chinese version of FB.
While nothing pings my radar on this article, NR has not proven to be a reliable source in general. Those looking for more reputable sources will be pleased to find links to Scientific American's March 11 article, How China’s “Bat Woman” Hunted Down Viruses from SARS to the New Coronavirus, and the Feb 3 paper in Nature — the gold standard for academic journals — A pneumonia outbreak associated with a new coronavirus of probable bat origin.
The paper in Nature lists Tye's other name-drop, Zheng-Li Shi, as corresponding author, creating a possible conflict of interest behind the statement, "This disease outbreak—which started from a local seafood market ..."
NR garbles the paper's results, but that's extremely common in popular press. They linked it, and summarized it well enough. Here's the straight information from the abstract.
Full-length genome sequences were obtained from five patients at an early stage of the outbreak. The sequences are almost identical and share 79.6% sequence identity to SARS-CoV. Furthermore, we show that 2019-nCoV is 96% identical at the whole-genome level to a bat coronavirus.
Taking that apart, "almost identical" means there's only one patient zero. "96 percent identical" means it came from a bat. "79.6 percent sequence identity" strongly suggests that it's a variant of the SARS-CoV-1 that originated with Palm Civets and caused the 2002-2004 epidemic.
On the larger issue of origins, at this point I'm concluding with a good deal of confidence Covid-19 started with a lab accident involving a natural virus brought back with bat samples and that the references to the seafood market are a deliberate misdirection to a health risk previously known to members of the nearby lab from which it escaped.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostThe marching orders from their bosses are effectively to cover up their mistakes — by keeping news of them away from their bosses.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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