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Kids In Cages...

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  • There are plenty of Americans living in squalor, in dangerous neighborhoods being terrorized by gangs (many whom have come from South America like MS13) - Why aren't we helping them "immigrate" to a better place?

    If being poor and living in a crime ridden neighborhood is reason enough that we should take in every refugee then pretty soon we will have all of south america living here. And if they are fleeing criminals then why didn't they stay in Mexico where they were offered sanctuary?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      At least you seem to understand that they aren't a bunch of people fleeing for their lives but vamoosing for a better life.
      Did you read what the Question I was wondering why Sparko wasn't asking.

      This many people don't endure what they have to endure to get here because they want 3 TV's instead of 2. They do it because they are barely surviving or they are in mortal danger. There will be exceptions, and I'm sure you are basing the comment above on those exceptions - but the people coming here under circumstances like those depicted in the photo are coming here because they are living in conditions not one of us would tolerate. Who in their right mind endures that? Desperate people is the answer.

      I just don't understand how you can be so callous. I mean - didn't Jesus talk about Lazurus every day begging and the rich man who ignored him? Doesn't that make you at least pause to consider what you are saying here? Jesus indicates in that parable that people like you and I that are rich by most of the worlds standards that turn a deaf ear to the needs of the poor will spend eternity in Hell. Does that not deserve a bit of caution here?

      Jim
      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-12-2019, 04:58 PM.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        There are plenty of Americans living in squalor, in dangerous neighborhoods being terrorized by gangs (many whom have come from South America like MS13) - Why aren't we helping them "immigrate" to a better place?

        If being poor and living in a crime ridden neighborhood is reason enough that we should take in every refugee then pretty soon we will have all of south america living here. And if they are fleeing criminals then why didn't they stay in Mexico where they were offered sanctuary?
        That is an excuse Sparko. We are required by our faith to help the poor. Period. And trying to impose the minority exception on the majority trying to get in here is just not right. If 10% are trying to get here for the wrong reasons, that still leaves 90% struggling and enduring horrible conditions hoping for a better life to the point they are willing to endure what you showed in that picture. And we are not allowed by our faith to dismiss that or just look the other way and pretend it doesn't exist or is not happening.

        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          You used to better than this. I must say I'm disappointed.
          That’s because I don’t troll, and as to disappointment, while I would never reject your approval, neither do I look for it because that is not the nature of our mutual quest for justice.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Did you read what the Question I was wondering why Sparko wasn't asking.

            This many people don't endure what they have to endure to get here because they want 3 TV's instead of 2. They do it because they are barely surviving or they are in mortal danger. There will be exceptions, and I'm sure you are basing the comment above on those exceptions - but the people coming here under circumstances like those depicted in the photo are coming here because they are living in conditions not one of us would tolerate. Who in their right mind endures that? Desperate people is the answer.

            I just don't understand how you can be so callous. I mean - didn't Jesus talk about Lazurus every day begging and the rich man who ignored him? Doesn't that make you at least pause to consider what you are saying here? Jesus indicates in that parable that people like you and I that are rich by most of the worlds standards that turn a deaf ear to the needs of the poor will spend eternity in Hell. Does that not deserve a bit of caution here?

            Jim
            Then go to the border and help them legally. There is nothing in the Bible that compels a nation to ignore its own security and well-being for the sake of "charity". Even Israel was instructed to put conquered nations to the sword because Israel lacked the means to care for a sudden influx of people without risking its own survival (among other reasons).

            If we were to allow millions of "refugees" to freely pour across the border and disappear into the country, it wouldn't take long before America's quality of life began to plummet. It's like the difference between your church running a food pantry, and opening its front doors and letting anybody off the street come into the building without restriction. How long do you think it would take before even the nicest church facility became a slum?
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
              That’s because I don’t troll...
              Oh, that was subtle. I almost missed it.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                They aren't getting harsh treatment. That's a liberal lie.

                -----------
                According to the media and firebrand leftists like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), the migrant detention centers at the U.S. southern border are deplorable "concentration camps" with some of the worst living conditions imaginable. But several Latino pastors who visited the facilities have refuted that claim and extolled the federal agents for their efforts in keeping conditions there humane.

                "Rev. Samuel Rodriguez was 'full of indignation' when he saw the reports and heard from politicians about the deplorable and inhumane conditions for illegal immigrants at an El Paso County, Texas migrant detention center," reports Fox News. "But what he saw at the same facility toured by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y. with a group of pastors was 'drastically different.'"

                As the president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, Rodriguez has advised Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump on immigration before. In a press briefing on Monday, he refuted the claims that detained immigrants are being mistreated after seeing the situation firsthand.

                "I read the reports, saw the news clips. I just wanted to see what was actually happening in order to better enable our efforts to find a fair and a just solution to our broken immigration system," Rodriguez said. "To my surprise, I saw something drastically different from the stories I’ve been hearing in our national discourse. Even as a veteran of immigration advocacy in the U.S., I was shocked at the misinformation of the crisis at the border."

                "We found no soiled diapers, no deplorable conditions, and no lack of basic necessities," Rodriguez declared.
                https://www.dailywire.com/news/49089...-not-paul-bois
                Well, even Mike Pence seems to admit that things are not always like they should be:

                A reporter traveling with Pence described a horrendous stench in the facility and said that nearly 400 men were housed in sweltering cages so crowded it would have been impossible for all of them to lie down. Some of the detainees shouted to reporters that they had been held 40 days or longer and complained that they were hungry.

                “This is tough stuff,” Pence said at a news conference later.

                “I was not surprised by what I saw,” he said. “I knew we’d see a system that was overwhelmed.” https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ty/1702331001/
                This statement should be read knowing how low he sets the standard:

                A reporter traveling with Pence described seeing detainees lying on kindergarten-like napping mats on the floor, covered with a thin tinfoil-like blanket. In one room, the intake facility, a crowd that appeared to be more than 100 people sat on benches. Most appeared dirty, and officials said they were waiting for showers and had been brought in earlier Friday. Some of the children were crying and sleeping.

                Regardless, “what we saw today is a facility that is providing care that every American would be proud of,” Pence said later at a roundtable discussion that included Border Patrol officials and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ty/1702331001/
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Oh, that was subtle. I almost missed it.
                  I see my role here as something like an auditor of souls. If you think I am trolling you, it probably means that you are failing your audit.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    I think it is because the democrats have an agenda. And they play it to the hilt. They were just caught again a few days ago using photos from 2014 in some tweets. They know better but don't care. They have a story they want to sell and they will do whatever it takes to sell it.

                    That is my opinion anyway. I know you will take it with a grain of salt. But I trust what hispanic pastors say over what congressmen and women are saying, because I don't think the pastors (many who are hispanic themselves) have any agenda other than the well being of the people in the camps.
                    I would tend to agree that a hispanic pastor that has dedicated his life to treating and caring for immigrants would be very unlikely to lie about what he saw. The disparity could be lying on the AOC party side, or it could be deception/oversight on the part of the facility (e.g. after the AOC report they got reamed by their supervisory staff and cleaned things up)

                    There are seemingly a lot of first hand reports from the immigrants themselves that are consistent with the AOC side of things. My guess is only exit interviews and surprise inspections by a completely independent group will give us a clear picture of the truth.

                    Jim
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Then go to the border and help them legally. There is nothing in the Bible that compels a nation to ignore its own security and well-being for the sake of "charity". Even Israel was instructed to put conquered nations to the sword because Israel lacked the means to care for a sudden influx of people without risking its own survival (among other reasons).

                      If we were to allow millions of "refugees" to freely pour across the border and disappear into the country, it wouldn't take long before America's quality of life began to plummet. It's like the difference between your church running a food pantry, and opening its front doors and letting anybody off the street come into the building without restriction. How long do you think it would take before even the nicest church facility became a slum?
                      So where is the faith, and where is the hope and the love????
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                        So where is the faith, and where is the hope and the love????
                        It's there when I deliver a box of food to a group of homeless men on the corner. Or buy a meal for someone who tells me they're hungry. It doesn't require that I open the doors of my house and allow anybody to have unrestricted access to my belongings and family.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          It's there when I deliver a box of food to a group of homeless men on the corner. Or buy a meal for someone who tells me they're hungry. It doesn't require that I open the doors of my house and allow anybody to have unrestricted access to my belongings and family.
                          Who suggested you should open the doors to your house? Straw man or what?

                          While the actions you describe above are good I must admit I have trouble finding the right words when Christians start to talk about the sword rather than the love in a situation when children are in cages and people are in desperate situations.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                            Who suggested you should open the doors to your house?
                            That's effectively what open border liberals are asking for.

                            Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                            While the actions you describe above are good I must admit I have trouble finding the right words when Christians start to talk about the sword rather than the love in a situation when children are in cages and people are in desperate situations.
                            It's because the situation is more complex and nuanced than you allow for with your simplistic black and white moral thinking.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              That's effectively what open border liberals are asking for.
                              So it was a straw man. We are not discussing whether boarders should be open or not. We are discussing how you treat actual human beings when they arrive at the boarder. Putting children in cages is not morally justifiable and you should know so. You can be opposed to open boarders and still find prisoning of children to be completely unjustifiable. There is no contradiction (which, of course, you already knew).

                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              It's because the situation is more complex and nuanced than you allow for with your simplistic black and white moral thinking.
                              In what way is my thinking simplistic? And talking about the sword when children are in cages is somehow a more sofisticated moral thinking?

                              I seem to remember someone who made some very simple guidelines on how human beings should treat each other. You may actually know him.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • ACK!!!! Charles wants to open BOARDERS!!! HIDE THE CUTLERY!!!!!!






                                Sorry, couldn't resist...
                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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