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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIf you tell me that your religious views are that "the LGBTQ community is 'sinful' and must be denied basic rights available to others because of that," then your religious views should be (finally!) constrained.
Denial of basic rights?Those of us who believe that such an exclusion smacks of prejudice/bigotry should vote with our feet and not buy the magazine, encourage advertisers not to advertise in the magazine, etc.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou cannot hide prejudice and discrimination behind "moral principals," Seer. So yes, if sex education is to be taught in schools, it should include coverage of all sexual orientations without prejudice or discrimination. If you don't like it, then you can a) vote for people that will advocate for your discriminatory views - and I will fight tooth and nail against it, or b) start your own school or send your child to a private school. But our public money should not be used to promote a discriminatory POV.
No - it's not. Repeating it won't make it so. It is perfectly consistent: no discriminatory or prejudicial philosophy should be taught or promoted in our schools, even those attempting to hide under the cover of "religion" and "morality."
No - I find the exercise of religion protected - but every exercise of religion has limits. If you tell me that your religious views are that a child should be sacrificed every Sunday at your community celebration, then your "religious freedom" will be constrained. If you tell me that your religious views stipulate that "ownership" is a sin and that gives you the right to take anything from anyone, then your religious views will be constrained. If you tell me that your religious views are that "the LGBTQ community is 'sinful' and must be denied basic rights available to others because of that," then your religious views should be (finally!) constrained.
If you want to practice such views - practice them within your churches and among your membership. If you bring them out into the marketplace and civil theater - we will fight against the views and their encoding in our laws and practices.
The objection, Seer, is that people who think like you have been the dominant power in the U.S. from the dawn of the republic. Now that power is shifting and those who hold these views suddenly find themselves constrained and marginalized. It's not a happy place to be. To that I say, "good - it's about time these views are marginalized in our society." I will continue to advocate for their elimination in our laws, schools, and the public marketplace in general. What you do in your churches and private homes is your business.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThat old chestnut! I had a side bet that it would be Sparko, MM, or Seer that would toss it in. I completely forgot about you - but it fits.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostSinful, yes.
Denial of basic rights? Oh really?
Originally posted by tabibito View PostYou think it is OK to pressure advertisers to not advertise in a magazine that never made any comment about the LGBT community, but simply doesn't endorse the lifestyle.
Originally posted by tabibito View PostThen you claim that is how the free market works. You'd scream blue murder if it was a gay magazine being pressured to endorse hetero lifestyles - in that case, you'd have no trouble identifying that it is neither how the free market works nor how it should work.
But a magazine that promotes weddings and then refuses to allow black people or gay people is explicitly practicing discrimination: I will not buy, and I will pressure advertisers to take their money elsewhere. The same would be true of a magazine promoting architecture who refuses to include the works of black people or gay people, and so forth.
Originally posted by tabibito View PostYou'd be saying that gays can have their niche market magazines and have the right to serve their niche market without interference - a right that you deny to a marketer that you don't approve of.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo, I am not a hypocrite. I am perfectly consistent in my views, AFAICT.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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OooooooooK How did that get posted twice?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostOooooooooK How did that get posted twice?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou really are a fascist at heart Carp. How about you let parents opt their kids out of sex ed - which is how it used to be? Or provide vouchers for so kids can get out of these indoctrination centers. But no, you don't want more freedom, you want absolute conformity.
Originally posted by seer View PostYet it is YOUR SIDE forcing kids to take sex ed. That certainly is prejudicial.
Originally posted by seer View PostYet, I have Constitution warrant for my position, there is no such justification for forcing a religious person to violate his beliefs.
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd I am not the one taking anything from any one, you are the one taking my labor, by law, under threat of penalty. The Christian baker took nothing from anyone.
Originally posted by seer View PostThere is nothing in the Constitution saying that my free exercise ends at the church door. But leftists like you have no reverence for the Constitution.
The Constitution was originally written to strongly favor white, landed, men. Over time, we have added equality for women, equality among races, equality with regard to property, and now we are working on sexual orientation and gender identity. I say, "yeah!"
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd that is why you are a hypocrite. You seek to marginalize the groups you disagree with. Neither accepting nor inclusive. You are full of it Carp...
You're right. You do. You just can't enshrine that hatefulness in law or public practice. Those of us who stand against such things will always speak out against it - even if you cry, scream, call us hypocrites, and make every other effort that oppressors have taken throughout history. The white leaders of South Africa during apartheid screamed bloody murder when their supremacy was challenged. Suddenly, they were being "oppressed" and "discriminated against." In part, they were right. Often, when the oppressed gain ground/power, they over-do it and inflict on their oppressors exactly what was done to them. It's not right. It should not happen. I call them on it when I see it as well. But that doesn't mean that the cry for equality is intrinsically oppressive.
Resisting oppression is not bigotry or prejudice. It is taking a stand for justice. If your god actually does exist, I suspect he/she/it would approve.Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 03:17 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNot ME? This thread is all about me!
You do have a way of bringing a bit of light into a room, CP.
Now and then, anyway!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, you equally condemn Tassman for coming here day after day and spewing forth his anti-Christian bigotry, yes?
I will say that I am not "anti-Christian" and have been accused of so being many, many times. So...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
You do have a way of bringing a bit of light into a room, CP.
Now and then, anyway!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostOooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
Oops... now I see it...Last edited by carpedm9587; 05-13-2019, 03:08 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah, a lot of folks here tend to take themselves WAY too seriously.
Now THAT is hypocritical!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostOooooooooK How did that get posted twice?
What double post?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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