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Wal-Mart Raises Hourly Wage to $11 in Wake of Tax Overhaul

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  • #76
    Originally posted by CMD View Post
    I have no problem with closing stores by itself. What is inexcusable to me is doing so with little to no notice.

    People showing up to work to find a "Closed" sign is just ridiculous.
    Yup. The employment tribunal here would take less than 3 seconds to rule against any employer who unprofessionally dismissed staff like that. Staff would probably be awarded $10-20k each on top of whatever payouts they were already owed for being made redundant.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Only 38% of Americans work for the big corporations - 53% work for small businesses.
      When these small businesses come up for sale, if they are offered to their own workers, and the workers are able to get government loans and training, the whole community benefits.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        When these small businesses come up for sale, if they are offered to their own workers, and the workers are able to get government loans and training, the whole community benefits.
        Yup. Jeremy Corbyn is saying he'll grant workers first rights to choose to buy their own company when it comes up for sale if they wish, plus government loans to help them do so if they choose.


        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        So why haven't you moved to Cuba or someplace socialist then?
        Cuba is communist, cooperatives are socialist, completely different.

        Consider the simple question: How much control does the average worker have over their workplace?
        Zero: Communism. Companies are controlled by the government and centrally planned. Likely nobody on-site on a company has power to change how things are done in the workplace.
        Low: Capitalism. The top dozen or so people in each company likely have a lot of power through being the owner, or upper management, or able to talk directly to the owner, but the average worker in a larger company will likely have zero contact with the owners or even with senior management and will be unable to affect their working conditions.
        Medium: Capitalism with unions. The unions allow the workers a level of collective bargaining over their workplace conditions - they can express their concerns to their union reps who can bring them up with the owners/senior management and the workers can strike if they feel they have serious grievances that aren't being addressed.
        Highest: Cooperatives. The workers actually own the company. They can all vote to retain/replace the CEO / board / senior management. Their democratic control over the company is complete and not mediated by having to work through a union and then bargain with recalcitrant mangers via strikes etc.

        So communism is the opposite to cooperatives, in terms of how much power the workers have to affect their workplaces.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
          That’s why Capitalism does not work. Worker-owners will not vote to lose their jobs.
          And that would drive you out of business. Rather we like it or not, sometimes job losses will happen within a company.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by CMD View Post
            I have no problem with closing stores by itself. What is inexcusable to me is doing so with little to no notice.

            People showing up to work to find a "Closed" sign is just ridiculous.
            It sucks, but pink slips are typically same-day. Otherwise, you end up getting disgruntled soon-to-be-ex-employees wreaking sabotage on their way out.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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            • #81
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              When these small businesses come up for sale, if they are offered to their own workers, and the workers are able to get government loans and training, the whole community benefits.
              Sounds like a grand plan for losing the government (read: taxpayers) gobs of money.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                When these small businesses come up for sale, if they are offered to their own workers, and the workers are able to get government loans and training, the whole community benefits.
                But the people who built the business have a right to sell their business as is in their own best interest. If they see value in selling it to employees, they're free to do that.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  When these small businesses come up for sale, if they are offered to their own workers, and the workers are able to get government loans and training, the whole community benefits.
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  But the people who built the business have a right to sell their business as is in their own best interest. If they see value in selling it to employees, they're free to do that.
                  I just remembered -- when I was young, I owned a chimney sweep business - "Holy Smoke Chimney Sweeps". I bought the business from the guy who used to run it, and for whom I worked. Then I sold it to two of the employees I had hired.

                  But I didn't need some pinko commie extreme leftist non-US citizen telling me to do that.

                  And they didn't need "government loans", I financed the deal, and provided the training!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    Sounds like a grand plan for losing the government (read: taxpayers) gobs of money.
                    US taxpayers are shelling out about $400M for a Japanese car plant in Alabama. Would they not be as generous to native small businesses?
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      US taxpayers are shelling out about $400M for a Japanese car plant in Alabama. Would they not be as generous to native small businesses?
                      Please show where the US taxpayers are "shelling out" money for this -- unless you mean tax abatements, which is not "shelling out". And this "Japanese car plant" will be adding 4,000 JOBS.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Please show where the US taxpayers are "shelling out" money for this -- unless you mean tax abatements, which is not "shelling out". And this "Japanese car plant" will be adding 4,000 JOBS.
                        Usnews.com report a total inducements package of 700M. I assume that money does not grow on trees in Alabama. So, Alabamans pay 175000 per job for no equity.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          Usnews.com report a total inducements package of 700M. I assume that money does not grow on trees in Alabama. So, Alabamans pay 175000 per job for no equity.
                          Funny, I thought jobs at an auto plant lasted more than a year. I also thought Alabama was a state, not the federal government.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            It sucks, but pink slips are typically same-day. Otherwise, you end up getting disgruntled soon-to-be-ex-employees wreaking sabotage on their way out.
                            I remember a relative of mine having a tampered with copy of The Little Mermaid. The box art had been tampered with in a rather disturbing way.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                              Usnews.com report a total inducements package of 700M. I assume that money does not grow on trees in Alabama. So, Alabamans pay 175000 per job for no equity.
                              And, once again, you're proving you don't know the difference between "shelling out" money and declining to charge money in the form of taxes.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                And, once again, you're proving you don't know the difference between "shelling out" money and declining to charge money in the form of taxes.
                                For a given budget, if A pays less than their fair contribution, B pays more. Alabama have calculated that it is worth making the contribution to get the jobs on offer. But they might have done as well or better if those same resources had been deployed somewhere else. Toyota gets their plant finished and running for less cost than they would otherwise have to pay. They save money which means that someone else fails to benefit from those funds.

                                I understand your point but these decisions have real financial consequences. My original query was why would you not support cooperatives in the same way?
                                Last edited by firstfloor; 01-14-2018, 02:38 PM.
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

                                Comment

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