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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    because homosexuality IS just like any other sin. That is your biggest problem, you seem to think Christians single out homosexuals as some special sort of depravity and we are bigoted against them. No. We consider homosexuality on the same level as any other sexual sin, such as adultery. And like any sin, it can be forgiven. And those who practice it are no better or worse than any other sinner.
    Oh my ... the implications.

    And until just now, I hadn't noticed them.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Oh my ... the implications.

      And until just now, I hadn't noticed them.
      the implications of sin?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        because homosexuality IS just like any other sin. That is your biggest problem, you seem to think Christians single out homosexuals as some special sort of depravity and we are bigoted against them. No. We consider homosexuality on the same level as any other sexual sin, such as adultery. And like any sin, it can be forgiven. And those who practice it are no better or worse than any other sinner.
        In fairness, some DO make a bigger deal out of it. I've heard some fundies and Pentecostals teach along the lines that you know a society is *really* screwed up when homosexuality becomes acceptable (as if treating adultery as no big deal is fine).
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

        Justice for Matthew Perna!

        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          In fairness, some DO make a bigger deal out of it. I've heard some fundies and Pentecostals teach along the lines that you know a society is *really* screwed up when homosexuality becomes acceptable (as if treating adultery as no big deal is fine).
          It's kinda like divorce - as a pastor, I could literally kill my wife, do some time in prison, come out and go back to ministry, maybe even write a book or go on the speaking circuit. If I divorce her, however, I'm done. It's nuts.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            the implications of sin?
            Norrin Radd (post 1578) and more strongly, CowPoke (post 1579), has pointed to a couple of the implications.

            Churches are quite happy, in the main to accept as Christian, or at least as members of the church, any number of subsets of sinner. They will even accept such people in ordained positions; albeit a more restricted range applies.

            Homosexuality is volubly declared incompatible with Christianity ... not so much other sins. But ...

            it is not singled out as a particularly different sin in the Bible. A congregation which accepts as members, people who openly and even unashamedly engage in other sins has no grounds for excluding people who engage in homosexual relationships. Which is to say ... the line in the sand gets drawn in the wrong place. As things stand, hypocrisy on this issue is inescapable.
            Last edited by tabibito; 06-21-2019, 06:26 PM.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              But you're holding it back cause you want it to be a special surprise?



              Whenever you say "as you usually do", you're about to tell another big'un.



              Is that you made a statement you can't support, so you're going to revert to typical drama queen evasion.



              That's not what you claimed at all - and you can't even admit you were wrong.
              It is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                It is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
                True, that. But it does come under the umbrella of whether self-identification should be considered valid.
                I could, for example, self-identify as the head of the Liberal Party. Should Liberal Party members be expected to endorse my self-identification as valid?

                Or maybe, I could self-identify as an ambulance officer. Or maybe, just as a competing member of a swimming team, for all that the distance I can swim is limited to the depth of the water. Where criteria are set out, and a person does not meet those criteria, self-identification is manifestly invalid.
                Last edited by tabibito; 06-21-2019, 06:40 PM.
                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                .
                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                Scripture before Tradition:
                but that won't prevent others from
                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  It is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
                  Perhaps. Ozzy Osbourne is also a member of that church.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    It is what he claimed
                    Never did.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      Whenever you say "as you usually do", you're about to tell another big'un.

                      So, you are accusing me of being a liar.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        It is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
                        Of course "someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not". It just doesn't fit with CP's narrative, that's all.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                          Which doesn't weaken my point in the slightest. In fact, it strengthens it, because it's only when he's addressing the Hellenistic part of his audience that he feels the need to defend the Jewish prohibition against homosexual relationships, showing that he had no need to address the issue to his Jewish audience.
                          This is merely second-guessing. You have no actual knowledge about what Philo addressed or to whom.

                          It wasn't all pervasive in the areas in which he was active.
                          There is no reason to think that the Romans in Jerusalem and Judea didn’t behave in just the same way they did throughout the rest of the Roman empire. It was the dominate culture.

                          Just because homosexuality was all pervasive in the Roman empire in general doesn't mean there weren't exceptions in the form of provinces, or areas of the Roman empire where it was not nearly as common as in other parts.
                          Mere speculation. The Roman culture would inevitably have dominated, it had the power. And this would have included the socially approved homosexual behavior of the Graeco-Roman world. The Jews may not have liked it but they were surrounded by it.

                          Well, you're correct that it probably wasn't a priority for Him,
                          Well, considering that Jesus never sees fit to mention homosexuality, I think that’s a fair guess. Paul only briefly mentions it and in such a way that it’s open to interpretation.

                          The bottom line is that a major Christian denomination, the Episcopal Church, sees no contradiction between homosexuality and the New Testament to the extent that if marries gay couples, consecrates gay bishops and accepts high profile gay congregants such a Pete Buttigieg.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            This is merely second-guessing. You have no actual knowledge about what Philo addressed or to whom.
                            If you're aware of any letters or works of Philo, or sections of his works, addressed to his fellow Jews where he discusses homosexuality you're welcome to present them here.

                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            There is no reason to think that the Romans in Jerusalem and Judea didn’t behave in just the same way they did throughout the rest of the Roman empire. It was the dominate culture.
                            And if you read the gospels Jesus doesn't seem to have been particularly interested in focusing his ministry on any other people than the Jews, except for a few exceptions at the personal level. We're discussing the view of the Jews in Judea regarding homosexuality, not the Roman's views who lived there, so whatever their behavior was is irrelevant.

                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Mere speculation. The Roman culture would inevitably have dominated, it had the power. And this would have included the socially approved homosexual behavior of the Graeco-Roman world. The Jews may not have liked it but they were surrounded by it.
                            Again, not relevant. If the Jews didn't like the socially accepted homosexual behavior of the Graeco-Roman world it explains Jesus' silence on the issue, considering He was mainly preaching to the Jews.


                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Well, considering that Jesus never sees fit to mention homosexuality, I think that’s a fair guess. Paul only briefly mentions it and in such a way that it’s open to interpretation.
                            The only way you can read Paul and come away with the notion that he's ok with homosexual behavior is if you decide to completely disregard the actual sense of his words and substitute your own meaning.


                            Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            The bottom line is that a major Christian denomination, the Episcopal Church, sees no contradiction between homosexuality and the New Testament to the extent that if marries gay couples, consecrates gay bishops and accepts high profile gay congregants such a Pete Buttigieg.
                            I don't care in the slightest what any Christian denomination believes about an issue if that belief is in clear contradiction with the actual teaching of the New Testament.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post

                              I don't care in the slightest what any Christian denomination believes about an issue if that belief is in clear contradiction with the actual teaching of the New Testament.
                              Well, the Episcopal Church clearly considers your views on “actual teaching of the New Testament” about homosexuality to be wrong. As do the majority of Christian’s in the US according to Pew Research.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • What churches find acceptable has often been at variance with what Christians find acceptable; notably in Nazi Germany, but only by virtue of recent and prominent history. Currently, Christians in Hong Kong are defying the churches to support the anti deportation law movement. So - pointing to what churches accept as moral won't gain any traction in a debate where Biblical teaching is pivotal. Church morality is too often informed by social mores and a quest for relevance and status in the halls of academe, and secular society.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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