Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow are thing popping into existence without a cause really any different than a miracle?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostA miracle is defined as an extraordinary event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws, whereas quantum mechanics is an extremely well tested scientific theoryAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI think you keep forgetting that particles, real or virtual particles, are not popping into existence, or in the case of virtual particles out of existence, from absolutely nothing, they are both ripples occuring withinin the fields that fill the quantum vacuum. There is no miracle occuring it's the fundamental nature of existence.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostTass if you are talking about something happening without a cause then to me that is only semantics."Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut Tass is saying this happens without a cause, no matter where the particles come from. And how do you know Jim that all this isn't miraculous? Virtual (not real) particles popping in and out of existence with no cause? The parting of the Red Sea sounds more plausible.
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Originally posted by seer View PostTass if you are talking about something happening without a cause then to me that is only semantics.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe difference is that quantum mechanics is tested and understood science whereas ‘miracles’ are violations of the laws of nature. The quantum world invalidates causal arguments as they apply to the world off classical physics.
"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." Richard Feynman, The Character of Physical Law (MIT Press: Cambridge, Massachusetts)
But Tass how can any one understand an effect WITHOUT a cause?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBack to my quote from Feynman:
"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." Richard Feynman, The Character of Physical Law (MIT Press: Cambridge, Massachusetts)
But Tass how can any one understand an effect WITHOUT a cause?
If you look at the quote in context, it is clear that what Feynman meant, namely that quantum mechanical phenomena cannot be understood using concepts or models from our ordinary experience. I.e. they cannot be understood by analogy with anything familiar such as our notions of causation in the classical sense...which is the question you're asking.
Quantum mechanics is in fact extremely well tested, and is a complete and tightly woven theory. Physicists such as Fenyman, understand very well its mathematical formalism and how to apply it to physical systems and make successful predictions about the results of experiments.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostA typically misleading and dishonest seer quote from the world of science!
If you look at the quote in context, it is clear that what Feynman meant, namely that quantum mechanical phenomena cannot be understood using concepts or models from our ordinary experience. I.e. they cannot be understood by analogy with anything familiar such as our notions of causation in the classical sense...which is the question you're asking.
Quantum mechanics is in fact extremely well tested, and is a complete and tightly woven theory. Physicists such as Fenyman, understand very well its mathematical formalism and how to apply it to physical systems and make successful predictions about the results of experiments.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostReally Tass, either you believe that you can have an effect without a cause or you don't. Which is it?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBecause seer, cause and effect are not fundamental, they are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time. Physicists no longer think in terms of cause and effect.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBecause seer, cause and effect are not fundamental, they are ways of talking about the patterns that we see as the universe evolves in time. Physicists no longer think in terms of cause and effect.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSeer does because he needs it to support his argument from first cause, i.e. God. In short, his religious presuppositions takes precedence over verified scientific fact.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, either cause and effect exists at this level or it doesn't. There is no middle ground.
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