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Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Faber View Post
    Personally, I tend to view homosexual behavior as more disgusting than heterosexual immorality. But the fact is, it didn't make the top eight abominations of Proverbs 6:16-99:


    On the other hand, "haughty eyes" can be defined as pride, making it in itself, an abomination. Objectively, all immorality, pornography, lust, etc. are condemned, one not more than another. In the case of child porn or molestation, or adultery, there are victims. That becomes a different story.
    So, it's really hard to say, as some do, that "all sin is the same". And the scripture I referred to a few posts ago is the one I've seen used by those who argue "all sin is the same".
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
      As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

      It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

      Yes? No?
      No. Not at all. Eli was never condemned in Scripture as a glutton - because although Scripture clearly states he was fat - he WASN'T a glutton.

      Overeating isn't gluttony - it's not even inherently wasteful since the body stores what it doesn't use. Gluttony is almost absent in modern times, at least in the West. Bulimia is its closest cousin.

      Gluttony is the act of deliberately vomiting a meal for the purpose of making room to continue to eat more. It's associated with feasting - gluttons would divest themselves in between courses so the could continue to sample the delicacies.

      In modern times, the eight course meal is rarely served - and it pales in comparison to the number of courses and dishes that were served at feasts in antiquity and into the medieval period. A four remove feast, commonly reenacted in the SCA, can have ten to twelve dishes - NOT counting the bread course. It's tiny compared to feasts from period - some of up to twelve removes. I attended one such reenactment - believe me, no one ate the whole thing.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        You really don't know who Beth Moore is?
        I only heard of her a few weeks ago, on one or two of the Patheos blogs. IIRC, she stirred up a stink-storm by tweeting some things that were mildly supportive of egalitarianism, even though she's been known as a complementarian.
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

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        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          So, it's really hard to say, as some do, that "all sin is the same". And the scripture I referred to a few posts ago is the one I've seen used by those who argue "all sin is the same".
          We all know that the WORST sins are the ones SOMEONE ELSE is attracted to.

          I do think that the "many lashes" vs. "few lashes" idea (Luke 12:47) argues that some are worse than others, but I don't think it's useful to try to develop some kind of scale. Personally, I find things like homosexuality and bestiality to be self-evidently sub-normal, which makes it easy to point at them as "worse" sins than "regular" lust, but I'm not sure that's really a good standard to use.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Gluttony is the act of deliberately vomiting a meal for the purpose of making room to continue to eat more. It's associated with feasting - gluttons would divest themselves in between courses so the could continue to sample the delicacies.
            This is what I've heard as well.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I think there are many Christians (especially online) who take pride in being a reviler. They may not explicitly recognize that's what they're doing. It's one of the sins mentioned in the same passage in 1 Corinthians though.
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Can you elaborate, please, on what you think was meant by "reviler" in the Bible?
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I basically have the same understanding that the gotquestions.org site has (https://www.gotquestions.org/reviler-in-the-Bible.html ); that covers angry outbursts, heavy profanity, and verbal abuse (often with pride).
              Interesting and maybe a bit annoying to see how differing translations handle the term in 1 Cor. 5:11.

              NASB, NKJV, ESV have the traditional "reviler."

              NIV and ISV have "slanderer."

              HCSB and NET have "verbally abusive." NET includes a translation note that BDAG defines it as "reviler, abusive person."

              I do use profanity, but I make some effort to not use it "at" people.


              On one online ministry I'm involved in, a couple of fairly well known Christian writers (even one retired Bible professor) who have disagreed with us have threatened physical violence and used profanity toward us because of disagreeing on doctrinal matters. I think some of those "watch dog ministries" that are devoted to nothing more than tearing down other Christians on flimsy grounds cross the line, especially when there's slander involved.
              That's nutty.

              It's not as bad as it used to be but in the past I think this line has also been crossed on TWeb when people decide to use "riposte" in situations that doesn't call for it (like calling people an idiot for a political or theological disagreement that Christians could legitimately take either side on).
              I do that on occasion, and I'm not happy about it.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                A couple of points. I knew a guy who was proud of bedding married women. Second, there were only about 22 behaviors in the Old Testament that drew the death penalty, homosexuality was one of these. So the Hebrews thought it as pretty bad.
                I think this is a poor argument, given the wide range of other things on that list of capital offenses (including Sabbath-breaking).











                Third, about desires; didn't Christ say that if you lusted after a woman you already committed adultery in your heart? How does that line up with homosexuals having sexual desires for the same sex? Haven't they sinned in their hearts?[/QUOTE]
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  I do use profanity, but I make some effort to not use it "at" people.
                  I've mostly eliminated it (having young kids has really helped) but I'm not 100% there yet. I don't know if profanity itself is as big a deal, especially since Paul uses that one word that everybody talks about. Probably not something Christians should do but I don't think uttering a four letter word when you trip over something in the yard is what Paul is talking about in this case. Definitely the bigger deal is how you say it, and I think Jesus touches on that when he says that even calling a brother is fool is sinful.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    It's also one of the "seven deadly sins".
                    But that's not in the Bible, and we're talking about what the Bible actually says.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      No. Not at all. Eli was never condemned in Scripture as a glutton - because although Scripture clearly states he was fat - he WASN'T a glutton.

                      Overeating isn't gluttony - it's not even inherently wasteful since the body stores what it doesn't use. Gluttony is almost absent in modern times, at least in the West. Bulimia is its closest cousin.

                      Gluttony is the act of deliberately vomiting a meal for the purpose of making room to continue to eat more. It's associated with feasting - gluttons would divest themselves in between courses so the could continue to sample the delicacies.

                      In modern times, the eight course meal is rarely served - and it pales in comparison to the number of courses and dishes that were served at feasts in antiquity and into the medieval period. A four remove feast, commonly reenacted in the SCA, can have ten to twelve dishes - NOT counting the bread course. It's tiny compared to feasts from period - some of up to twelve removes. I attended one such reenactment - believe me, no one ate the whole thing.
                      If your interpretation is correct, it would explain why "banquetings" is on the sin list in 1 Peter 4:3. I've heard of people doing that in the Roman Empire. I knew something else had to be going on because Jesus attended banquets, too.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        No. Not at all. Eli was never condemned in Scripture as a glutton - because although Scripture clearly states he was fat - he WASN'T a glutton.

                        Overeating isn't gluttony - it's not even inherently wasteful since the body stores what it doesn't use. Gluttony is almost absent in modern times, at least in the West. Bulimia is its closest cousin.

                        Gluttony is the act of deliberately vomiting a meal for the purpose of making room to continue to eat more. It's associated with feasting - gluttons would divest themselves in between courses so the could continue to sample the delicacies.

                        In modern times, the eight course meal is rarely served - and it pales in comparison to the number of courses and dishes that were served at feasts in antiquity and into the medieval period. A four remove feast, commonly reenacted in the SCA, can have ten to twelve dishes - NOT counting the bread course. It's tiny compared to feasts from period - some of up to twelve removes. I attended one such reenactment - believe me, no one ate the whole thing.
                        While it's certainly true that fat ≠ gluttony, assigning it to ONLY overeating followed by vomiting is equally not correct. That certainly qualifies, but the very definition of gluttony is overindulging, overeating, over-drinking (drunkenness).
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                          While it's certainly true that fat ≠ gluttony, assigning it to ONLY overeating followed by vomiting is equally not correct. That certainly qualifies, but the very definition of gluttony is overindulging, overeating, over-drinking (drunkenness).
                          Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                            Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.
                            I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.
                              Are you talking about the English word, "glutton," or the Greek "phagos"? Or is the same true of both?
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Federalist.

                              Nationalist Christian.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                              Justice for Matthew Perna!

                              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
                                Do we know which idea the authors of Scripture had in mind in using the Greek "phagos"?
                                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                                Beige Federalist.

                                Nationalist Christian.

                                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                                Comment

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