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Should We Use Gender-Inclusive Language For God?

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  • #16
    I'll leave you to contact P.B. Payne and correct the errors he makes here:
    Ah yes ... the old "my scholar is better than your scholar" game.

    Fact: τις is grammatically masculine
    Fact: τις does not indicate the gender of the object in question.
    "Anyone (τις) may hold office." Context does not restrict the parameters of "anyone." (However, logical assessment might lead to the conclusion that e.g. infants are excluded.)
    "Anyone (τις) who holds a passport may enter the country." - the context restricts parameters of "anyone" to passport holders.
    "Anyone (τις) who chooses to do so may become a husband" - the context restricts the parameters of "anyone" to (historically at least) males.
    "Anyone (τις) who chooses to do so may become a spouse" - Context does not restrict the parameters of "anyone."

    1 Tim 5:16 (UBS5) εἴ τις πιστὴ ἔχει χηρας επαρκειτω αυταις, ... - πιστὴ restricts the parameters of τις to female believers, as shown by the ESV translation: "If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them ..."
    1 Tim 5:16 (Byzantine Majority) ει τις πιστος ... The grammatically masculine πιστος does not restrict the parameters of τις to males, because πιστος does not necessarily apply exclusively to males. ανηρ, however, does apply exclusively to males.
    Last edited by tabibito; 02-18-2018, 07:55 PM.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Ah yes ... the old "my scholar is better than your scholar" game.
      No, it's the "I know I am not a scholar, so I'll quote one." These fora are open to all, including us regular folks. Live with it.


      Fact: τις is grammatically masculine
      In addition to what Payne said, and what I noted about various translations, Danker's 2009 Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament p. 353 says it can be masculine or feminine.


      Fact: τις does not indicate the gender of the object in question.

      "Anyone (τις) may hold office." Context does not restrict the parameters of "anyone." (However, logical assessment might lead to the conclusion that e.g. infants are excluded.)

      "Anyone (τις) who holds a passport may enter the country." - the context restricts parameters of "anyone" to passport holders.

      "Anyone (τις) who chooses to do so may become a husband" - the context restricts the parameters of "anyone" to (historically at least) males.

      "Anyone (τις) who chooses to do so may become a spouse" - Context does not restrict the parameters of "anyone."

      1 Tim 5:16 (UBS5) εἴ τις πιστὴ ἔχει χηρας επαρκειτω αυταις, ... - πιστὴ restricts the parameters of τις to female believers, as shown by the ESV translation: "If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them ..."

      1 Tim 5:16 (Byzantine Majority) ει τις πιστος ... The grammatically masculine πιστος does not restrict the parameters of τις to males, because πιστος does not necessarily apply exclusively to males. ανηρ, however, does apply exclusively to males.
      AFAICT, Payne does not address ch. 5 anywhere in the linked PDF document, so I'm not completely sure what point you are making. Since the subject of ch. 5 is "widows," then of course 5:16 is about female believers, regardless of the text base. If your point regarding "aner" is about 3:2, then you have not addressed Payne's reasoning, viz. that it is part of a figure of speech, and therefore should not be separated and dealt with on its own. Now, I suspect you disagree with him, and yeah, at that point we are probably left with the irreconcilable "dueling scholars" dilemma.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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