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List of Trump's crimes?

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  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    Yes, yes, I have given up that line of arguement and concede defeat.
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, I mean that, Roy -- you know FAR more about this than I do - I'm conceding.
    See, ff? This is why we get along -- you and I are able to concede, even though you're always wrong on virtually everything you say!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by whag View Post
      There’s actually a lot of evidence it wasn’t proper. Many people besides the whistleblower, like John Bolton, have expressed that view. Whether it was criminal is legitimately debatable. Even Anthony Napolitano thinks so.
      Opinions are not evidence.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        That doesn't change the fact that this whole thing is incredibly political and partisan.



        "Honoroably", of course, meaning agreeing with the Democrats. Same as "bipartisan" and "compromising".


        The timing was probably accidental, but this is what Trump waded into. Katya was drenched in acid and died 4 months later.


        Yovanovitch told the House impeachment inquiry on Friday that she was holding an event in honor of Kateryna Handziuk, an activist who died last year after being doused in sulfuric acid.

        “We thought it was important that justice be done for Katya and others who fight corruption in Ukraine because it’s not kind of a table-top exercise there,” Yovanovitch said, adding that she was giving Handziuk’s father a “woman of courage” award at the event in his daughter’s honour.

        It was at 10:00 p.m local time on April 24, however, in the middle of the event that Yovanovitch received a phone call from the State Department’s director general telling her to get on the next plane to Washington.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Opinions are not evidence.
          Sadly, MM, if this were a legitimate proceeding with actual rules of evidence and the prosecutor wasn't also the judge, and the MSM wasn't entirely on board, that would matter.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            The timing was probably accidental, but this is what Trump waded into. Katya was drenched in acid and died 4 months later.
            Perhaps you're of the "never let a good tragedy go to waste" camp?



            You never let a serious crisis go to waste. Rahm Emanuel

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              I can't see how. There's no evidence that Trump's actions towards Ukraine ever rose to the level of improper, and certainly not criminal.
              Holding up Congressionally allocated funds in an attempt to get Ukraine to dig up dirt on a political rival would be illegal and criminal. It's a criminal abuse of power (he can't use the presidency for personal means and goals) and it is extortion (not sure why they went with bribery as an alternate term, he wan't saying he would give them the aid if they did what he wanted, he was threatening them by withholding the money until they did what he wanted)
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 11-18-2019, 04:47 PM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                It was dumb. Was it illegal? Is it actually impeachable?

                And, at the risk of somebody screaming "aboutism", was it "wrong" when Biden did it? Why is it that Biden doing essentially the same thing cannot be considered?
                “what aboutism” comes from our deep primal instinct for justice. “Johnny, no TV for you for eating a cookie before dinner!” “But what about Pete???”
                Doesn’t that put us in an endless regress?

                The point is that POTUS could have investigated Biden without Ukraine and the appearance of impropriety.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by whag View Post
                  “What aboutism” comes from our deep primal instinct for justice. “Johnny, no TV for you for eating a cookie before dinner!” “But what about Pete???”
                  DoesnÂ’t that put us in an endless regress?
                  You're posting from your phone, eh?

                  The point is that POTUS could have investigated Biden without Ukraine and the appearance of impropriety.
                  Trump is a jackass - if there's a non-diplomatic way to do something, he will find it.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Holding up Congressionally allocated funds in an attempt to get Ukraine to dig up dirt on a political rival would be illegal and criminal.
                    It also never happened.

                    Jim Jordan lays out the four facts that have never been contradicted:

                    1) We have the call transcript, there’s no discussion of linking aid to any investigation.
                    2) The two principals on the call, President Trump and President Zelenskyy, have both stated there was no linkage of any aid to Ukraine dependent on any investigation.
                    3) The Ukraine government had no idea that aid was being held-back pending confirmation of the stable intent -no corruption- within the new Ukraine administration.
                    4) President Zelenskyy didn’t announce, didn’t start, and didn’t acknowledge he was going to start any investigation to get the aid released; and it was released without contingencies.

                    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...ent-construct/

                    ...not sure why they went with bribery as an alternate term...
                    Because it played better to their focus groups than "extortion" and "quid pro quo".
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • By the way, that comment about focus group testing is not a joke. The Democrats are actually doing it.

                      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...achment-crime/
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        By the way, that comment about focus group testing is not a joke. The Democrats are actually doing it.

                        https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...achment-crime/
                        Is that a fact?

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          This goes back to the panel of Democratic consultants I saw on TV (Bloomberg IIRC) saying that if it hadn't been for Schiff and how he has conducted himself there probably would have been a couple of Republicans (especially among those retiring and who dislike Trump) who would likely have joined the Democrats with the impeachment inquiry vote.

                          Trump is indeed blessed by the caliber of his opponents.
                          No, that again is just the corrupt talking points which you Trumpsters have no other choice but to regurgitate. Your complaints that it's the process, it's the Democrats, it's Pelosi, it's Schiff, the head of the inquiry, are simply ways to take your focus off of the damning evidence itself. No, it's not a witch hunt, it's a legitimate inquiry as has been proven by the testimony of the witnesses, an inquiry which none of you hard core Trumpsters will ever see as legit, because you don't have the capacity to overcome your cult like bias. You just don't!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Trump is a jackass - if there's a non-diplomatic way to do something, he will find it.
                            The above is what's called making excuses for what you know to be Trumps abuse of power.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              It was dumb.
                              No, it was corrupt.

                              Was it illegal?
                              It was unconstitutional, illegal, and in my opinion, treasonous.

                              Is it actually impeachable?
                              No doubt.
                              And, at the risk of somebody screaming "aboutism", was it "wrong" when Biden did it? Why is it that Biden doing essentially the same thing cannot be considered?
                              Yeah, you really need get out of that right wing propaganda bubble, CP. Biden didn't do essentially the same thing.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                The above is what's called making excuses for what you know to be Trumps abuse of power.
                                Actually, no --- it's an outright proclamation that Trump is a jackass - if there's a non-diplomatic way to do something, he will find it, which is why I said that Trump is a jackass - if there's a non-diplomatic way to do something, he will find it.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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