Mass Shooting El Paso...

[seanD]

This still doesn't get to the heart of what I'm getting at.

The purpose of not spreading the manifesto isn't because the readers will be inspired to commit mass shootings. It's because people who shoot and leave a manifesto want something to be read by a very wide audience. If we reduce that very wide audience, one possible motivation to go on a shooting spree is reduced.

I question whether you're correct about the motives though. Yes, clearly the shooter is looking for widespread fame for a political view they hold, but is it necessarily to get his entire message in a manifesto out to mainstream, or is it to inspire other shooters in his social media niche who share the same message? I would argue the latter. I don't think the shooter really believes mainstream folks will look for his manifesto and read the entire thing, especially since most people will be repulsed by it. He probably believes the MSM will share general political viewpoints from the manifesto.

[KingsGambit]

I question whether you're correct about the motives though. Yes, clearly the shooter is looking for widespread fame for a political view they hold, but is it necessarily to get his entire message in a manifesto out to mainstream, or is it to inspire other shooters in his social media niche who share the same message? I would argue the latter. I don't think the shooter really believes mainstream folks will look for his manifesto and read the entire thing, especially since most people will be repulsed by it. He probably believes the MSM will share general political viewpoints from the manifesto.

I don't know obviously. It's surely not the entire reason; the pent up rage would still be there. But it probably is one factor. Would reducing the ability to be a martyr have stopped him or Elliot Rodger or any of the others? Not necessarily; but my proposal could dissuade some would-be shooters.

[Teallaura]

I don't think that's a charitable interpretation of the post. My original claim is that publicizing the manifesto makes future shootings more likely, and Sparko's point was that the manifesto was used to defend Trump against attacks. I think the argument that preventing more shootings outweighs having it available to defend Trump is a reasonable one.

It's also a convenient, self-serving one.


The name is probably more important to him than the ideas - he likely wants attention on himself. The manifesto alone won't get him what he's after.

[Teallaura]

Did you even read my post? I acknowledged that people who really want to find it really will (like my point with the Chiefs player address), but that the goal is stopping those who wouldn't necessarily be looking for it.

Um, KG, he already made the point that once the guys looking for it find it, they will accelerate the dissemination.

[KingsGambit]

It's also a convenient, self-serving one.


The name is probably more important to him than the ideas - he likely wants attention on himself. The manifesto alone won't get him what he's after.

I disagree with this. There have been so many mass shootings that all the names seem to blend together at this point in time... unless there is something distinctive that makes people remember. One of the few names people remember is Elliot Rodger, because he had a distinctive manifesto about how he was unable to convince women to have sex with him.

[KingsGambit]

Um, KG, he already made the point that once the guys looking for it find it, they will accelerate the dissemination.

Yes, but ideas take off faster if aided by the mainstream media or prominent bloggers than they do if spread by some random guy living in his mom's basement. All I am doing is actively discouraging those with louder voices from using their megaphones.

It's also a convenient, self-serving one.

And arguing that the manifesto needs to be out there in order to protect Trump's reputation isn't self serving?

[oxmixmudd]

I see truth really doesn't matter to you as long as the lie makes Trump look worse...

You see nothing of the sort.

Jim

[Teallaura]

I disagree with this. There have been so many mass shootings that all the names seem to blend together at this point in time... unless there is something distinctive that makes people remember. One of the few names people remember is Elliot Rodger, because he had a distinctive manifesto about how he was unable to convince women to have sex with him.

While I see the point you're making, it appears to me to just be the cart following the horse. Trying to stand out doesn't make the name recognition any the less the goal.

[KingsGambit]

While I see the point you're making, it appears to me to just be the cart following the horse. Trying to stand out doesn't make the name recognition any the less the goal.

But the whole point is that name recognition isn't what it was in 1999 because these shootings are almost an everyday occurrence at this point in time.

[Teallaura]

Yes, but ideas take off faster if aided by the mainstream media or prominent bloggers than they do if spread by some random guy living in his mom's basement. All I am doing is actively discouraging those with louder voices from using their megaphones.

YouTube stars are a thing - it's no longer necessary to use the mainstream media to establish a significant amount of fame.

And arguing that the manifesto needs to be out there in order to protect Trump's reputation isn't self serving?

Literally, by definition - no. Trump isn't making the argument <scrolls up to find post> Bill is. Ox, in the post responded to, was expressing his TDS so yes, his response was self-serving where Bill's is not.

I think Bill made a valid point but that could certainly be called into question. Obviously, you don't think so. So, the president's supporters (and sane people who just don't like lying) should just continue to allow the smears and false information so that somehow, a case that is already all over the mainstream news doesn't incite further violence? I mean, I actually agree with you conceptually - but this horse is half way to Missouri so I see little point closing the barn door now.

[Teallaura]

But the whole point is that name recognition isn't what it was in 1999 because these shootings are almost an everyday occurrence at this point in time.

Then you aren't making sense to me - if a guy wants to be famous he wants the fame for himself, not his work. I can see promoting the work (the manifesto) in order to spur name recognition but the idea that he would want the work itself to be recognized while being himself forgotten seems far fetched to me.

[seanD]

But the whole point is that name recognition isn't what it was in 1999 because these shootings are almost an everyday occurrence at this point in time.

I don't these guys are thinking that way, to go down in infamy for years and decades. They're social media junkie nerds, therefore they're looking for instant gratification. Just the instant MSM notoriety, even if just a brief moment (a few weeks or so), is the fix they're looking for.

[KingsGambit]

All ox was doing in principle was agreeing with my original post. I thought I was making a reasonable point even if not everybody agrees. It's frustrating that you think it is dismissable by saying "TDS" as if no further interaction is needed.

[Teallaura]

All ox was doing in principle was agreeing with my original post. I thought I was making a reasonable point even if not everybody agrees. It's frustrating that you think it is dismissable by saying "TDS" as if no further interaction is needed.

You haven't argued with him lately, have you? He won't let go of that bone, no matter how irrational - so where you make reasonable points, even if I don't agree, he makes irrational attacks, first on Trump and then on anyone that even vaguely defends Trump. He brought the TDS thing on himself.

[KingsGambit]

You haven't argued with him lately, have you? He won't let go of that bone, no matter how irrational - so where you make reasonable points, even if I don't agree, he makes irrational attacks, first on Trump and then on anyone that even vaguely defends Trump. He brought the TDS thing on himself.

You said that the point being made was nothing more than TDS. Since he made the same point as I did, it stands to reason that you think the point is easily dismissable and undeserving of interaction. Who posted it has no bearing on the validity of the point.1