Whistleblower identified

[oxmixmudd]

Interestingly, Ken Starr, who knows a thing or two about Special Prosecutors and investigating presidential misconduct, recently declared that if, as has been confirmed, Eric Ciaramella (the "whistleblower") first went to Schiff before the IG had assessed his complaint then he cannot claim whistleblower status but is instead nothing but a leaker.

The lengths to which people will go to get this guy. To expose Teump must be getting close to the unpardonable sin in some quarters these days.

Is your hatred of all things 'liberal' so complete that it literally does not matter what Trump does as long as whatever is happening is in some way allowing for revenge against the MSM or Democrats?

[Mountain Man]

Interestingly, Ken Starr, who knows a thing or two about Special Prosecutors and investigating presidential misconduct, recently declared that if, as has been confirmed, Eric Ciaramella (the "whistleblower") first went to Schiff before the IG had assessed his complaint then he cannot claim whistleblower status but is instead nothing but a leaker.

It also creates a huge conflict of interest for Schiff. It has been suggested that he should be called on testify under oath.

[Mountain Man]

Then why did it take 2 months after the call to release the aid? Just 2 days after congress was notified about the whistleblower?

Text messages show that a white house visit was also used as leverage. The Ukrainians wanted a confirmation of the date before they do the announcement into the investigations. <- also quid pro quo

Ukrainians were aware that aid was withheld by early august which Morrison also testified to. However, the huge point that seems to be missed is that it doesnt matter if Ukraine knew about it or not. The issue is whether the aid was withheld for this purpose.

How is this not worthy of at least an investigation?

President Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials have repeatedly said there was no pressure.

[oxmixmudd]

President Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials have repeatedly said there was no pressure.

And I have repeatedly made clear there is no scenario based on the known set of facts where such a claim by the can be expected to be meaningful. For you to continue to claim those statements mean anything at all is itself wrong.

When it is known there is the potential that a person's statements were made under duress, and when a person is using the potential victim's statement, potentially made under duress, to defend the potential abuser, they are siding directly with the evil forces of this world. Are you such a fool as not to be able to understand that?

[oxmixmudd]

It also creates a huge conflict of interest for Schiff. It has been suggested that he should be called on testify under oath.

He didnt go to Schiff directly. He contacted Schiff's office to try to understand what he should do. Again you put yourself in the position of arguing to punish those acting on conscience to expose actual wrongdoing.

Are you really going to embrace this role of advocate for evil?

[rogue06]

He didnt go to Schiff directly. He contacted Schiff's office to try to understand what he should do. Again you put yourself in the position of arguing to punish those acting on conscience to expose actual wrongdoing.

Are you really going to embrace this role of advocate for evil?

Similar to how someone uses "Trump" or "Obama" to mean the "Trump Administration" or "Obama Administration" I used "Schiff" to mean "Schiff and/or his staff."

I should note that in his remarks Star did specify "Schiff's staff"

But MM is right. Schiff should not be holding these hearings because he is a witness and can be expected to testify.

No wonder he is restricting the Republican's right to call witnesses in this circus.

[rogue06]

President Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials have repeatedly said there was no pressure.

As have others. But as we know any time that somebody offers testimony that contradicts the carefully crafted "The Narrative" they must be lying. smiley dolt.gif


I mean someone here even said that Zelensky wouldn't fabricate false evidence for Trump because they didn't want to get embroiled in all of this while maintaining that Zelensky is lying for Trump about being pressured

[Mountain Man]

And I have repeatedly made clear there is no scenario based on the known set of facts where such a claim by the can be expected to be meaningful. For you to continue to claim those statements mean anything at all is itself wrong.

When it is known there is the potential that a person's statements were made under duress, and when a person is using the potential victim's statement, potentially made under duress, to defend the potential abuser, they are siding directly with the evil forces of this world. Are you such a fool as not to be able to understand that?

Right, Zelensky is under "duress".

How about you prove that Zelensky is lying instead of simply assuming it because that's what you want to be true.

And the fact that you want it to be true is a big problem for you spiritually. CS Lewis said something to effect of that those who are disappointed when things turn out to be not as bad as they had initially suspected will soon find themselves on a path where they can only be satisfied with ever increasing evil. It's okay for you to be happy that our President didn't commit a crime, and you should do some serious soul searching to figure out why you can't be.

[Mountain Man]

Similar to how someone uses "Trump" or "Obama" to mean the "Trump Administration" or "Obama Administration" I used "Schiff" to mean "Schiff and/or his staff."

I should note that in his remarks Star did specify "Schiff's staff"

But MM is right. Schiff should not be holding these hearings because he is a witness and can be expected to testify.

No wonder he is restricting the Republican's right to call witnesses in this circus.

The idea that there is some firewall between Adam Schiff and his staff, and that he had no idea what was going on in his own office, especially with regards to something like this, is ridiculous. The fact that he originally denied any contact at all and then was forced to change his story after the facts came out doesn't look good for him.

[lilpixieofterror]

The idea that there is some firewall between Adam Schiff and his staff, and that he had no idea what was going on in his own office, especially with regards to something like this, is ridiculous. The fact that he originally denied any contact at all and then was forced to change his story after the facts came out doesn't look good for him.

And if he was unaware, it would make him an incompetent fool that shouldn’t be sitting in Congress, let alone being the lead in this impeachment inquiry.

[Cow Poke]

The lengths to which people will go to get this guy.

One could substitute "Trump" for "this guy"...

[rogue06]

Right, Zelensky is under "duress".

How about you prove that Zelensky is lying instead of simply assuming it because that's what you want to be true.

And the fact that you want it to be true is a big problem for you spiritually. CS Lewis said something to effect of that those who are disappointed when things turn out to be not as bad as they had initially suspected will soon find themselves on a path where they can only be satisfied with ever increasing evil. It's okay for you to be happy that our President didn't commit a crime, and you should do some serious soul searching to figure out why you can't be.

That same "duress" that would force him to lie would lead him to continue down that road (too late to go back) and fabricate other things. But we get told he doesn't do that because he doesn't want to get drawn into this mess. And yet the same folks insist that he is lying -- which is drawing him into this mess.

They don't care if their claims are internally inconsistent. The TDS has taken too strong a hold.

[rogue06]

The idea that there is some firewall between Adam Schiff and his staff, and that he had no idea what was going on in his own office, especially with regards to something like this, is ridiculous. The fact that he originally denied any contact at all and then was forced to change his story after the facts came out doesn't look good for him.

If his staff had acted on its own one could expect an outraged Schiff to be firing a bunch of staffers for putting him in this position.

[oxmixmudd]

One could substitute "Trump" for "this guy"...

for those confused by CP's mistake: "this guy" in my post refers ONLY to the whistle-blower.

[oxmixmudd]

Right, Zelensky is under "duress".

How about you prove that Zelensky is lying instead of simply assuming it because that's what you want to be true.

"Lying" is yet more advocation for evil. I don't consider what he said a lie in the sense that you imply here. I see it as a necessary response so as to preserve the peace between his country and the Trump administration. Not unlike when a teacher finds a bully smacking around some smaller kid with all his goons looking on and she asks "are you ok" and the kid says "No, I'm fine, really" as he glances nervously at the bully.

And the fact that you want it to be true is a big problem for you spiritually. CS Lewis said something to effect of that those who are disappointed when things turn out to be not as bad as they had initially suspected will soon find themselves on a path where they can only be satisfied with ever increasing evil. It's okay for you to be happy that our President didn't commit a crime, and you should do some serious soul searching to figure out why you can't be.

How ironic for someone such as yourself who supports one of the most corrupt men to occupy the white house in years and who advocates for him in ways that accuse and diminish the innocent, the weak, and the poor to be quoting Lewis. But at his point, there is no other possibility than that Trump was trying to manipulate Ukraine into helping him out against Biden. So the point is moot. But even if by some miracle it turns out I'm wrong about Trump, I will not be sad about it. I would be glad if Trump suddenly repented and abandoned his evil. I know you can't understand that - partially because I don't think you understand being motivated by principle any more than Donald Trump does. But I am all for truth and redemption. The problem is, Trump is not. Not even close. And the other problem is there are many that follow Christ, like yourself, willing to literally sell their souls to the Devil himself in offering support for him in his current state.

Jim