Breaking news ... Walls do work

[Cow Poke]

Breaking news ... Walls do work

[Starlight]

Some fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.

One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.

Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.

You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.

Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.

You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well...

[Mountain Man]

Some Republicans are challenging Pelosi to tear down the border barriers that protect her own state if she really believes they're immoral.

[lilpixieofterror]

Some fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.

One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.

Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.

You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.

Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.

You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well...

Have you ever cut through a piece of steel, with a hack saw?

[Starlight]

One of Trump's steel border wall prototypes after hacksaw-testing:



Video courtesy of Fox News of some migrants in Arizona climbing over the border wall at night:

Because humans have invented the advanced technology known as "a ladder" they have a reasonably easy time of it.

[Tassman]

Some Republicans are challenging Pelosi to tear down the border barriers that protect her own state if she really believes they're immoral.

[Cow Poke]

One of Trump's steel border wall prototypes after hacksaw-testing:

That photo with the "hacksawing" looks more like somebody used an oxygen acetylene torch (a "fire wrench"), not a hack saw. And the point the border agents are making (you know, the guys who are really down there in the middle of this) is that the wall won't stop everybody, but it will slow them down and make it more likely they'll get caught.

[Starlight]

You should probably listen to the only Republican House member to have a border district in Texas:

[Cow Poke]

You should probably listen to the only Republican House member to have a border district in Texas:

He is certainly entitled to his opinion.

[Tassman]

He is certainly entitled to his opinion.

It's an opinion grounded in facts and one shared by Pelosi and the Dems. It is an expensive fallacy to equate Donald's big border wall with border security. Strategic fencing along some sections of the border in conjunction with a whole raft of smart technology is what's required. Plus a major upgrade of security at other points of entry.

[Cow Poke]

It's an opinion grounded in facts and one shared by Pelosi and the Dems.

The facts as you see them. That's also an opinion. The guy is a politician who used to work for the CIA lying about who he is. And Pelosi and some of her ilk were FOR the wall before they were AGAINST the wall.

It is an expensive fallacy to equate Donald's big border wall with border security.

Yet the Chief of the Border Patrol, along with many border agents interviewed, believe the Wall will help them.

Strategic fencing along some sections of the border in conjunction with a whole raft of smart technology is what's required. Plus a major upgrade of security at other points of entry.

I really don't have much disagreement here, Tass. But Pelosi said ZERO - not ONE DOLLAR - for the wall (or fencing or obstacle or whatever you want to call it). How bout calling her and explaining what you just said here, OK?

Sheeeesh, I wish you libs would get your stories straight!

[Cow Poke]

...And Pelosi and some of her ilk were FOR the wall before they were AGAINST the wall....

Flashback: Democrats Supported the U.S. Border Fence Before They Were Against It

Democratic members of Congress have been critical of President-elect Donald Trump's anti-illegal immigration proposal of building a wall on the Mexico-United States border since he proposed it on the campaign trail in the fall of 2015, but several Democrats voted in support of similar legislation in 2006.

Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) proposed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 legislation to help secure the America's borders to help minimize drug trafficking and immigrants from illegally entering the United States by building 700 miles of physical barriers along the border.

While there were some Democrats who opposed the legislation due to cost restraints and concerns about the environmental impact of the fence, several prominent Democrats supported the legislation in the Senate, including Sen. Barbara Boxer (D., Calif.), former Sen. Barack Obama (D., Ill.), and former Sen. Hillary Clinton (D., N.Y.).

Boxer, who has been critical of Trump's wall proposal, spoke on the Senate floor in September 2006 where she defended building a fence on the border. " I don't oppose building a fence where you need to do it where the border is poorest. I just don't have a problem with that," Boxer said.

Obama also supported building a fence on the southern border of the United States. While Obama didn't believe the fence was a permanent solution, he did believe that it would provide better security along the border. Regarding the Secure Fence Act, Obama said in September 2006 that "the bill before us will certainly do some good. It will authorize some badly needed funding for better fences and better security along our borders and that should help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country." In addition to this clip, Wikileaks leaked an internal memo last November from Obama's 2008 presidential campaign that revealed his support for fencing along the border, according to the Daily Caller.

"Additional fencing on the border is not a comprehensive solution, but it sometimes helps deter people from taking the risk of entering illegally," the memo states.

The memo also says that Obama "Believes fencing should be built where necessary and agreed to in coordination with local governments, Indian tribes and done in an environmentally sensitive manner."

Obama, according to the memo, "Supports additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry." Additionally, Obama "Believes we need additional Customs and Border Protection agents with better technology and real-time intelligence."

[Tassman]

The facts as you see them. That's also an opinion.

And Pelosi and some of her ilk were FOR the wall before they were AGAINST the wall.

Yet the Chief of the Border Patrol, along with many border agents interviewed, believe the Wall will help them.

Yes, they said what the Dems have always supported namely, that strategic fencing in specific locations will help them. Not just a big, beautiful wall per se as proposed by Trump.

I really don't have much disagreement here, Tass. But Pelosi said ZERO - not ONE DOLLAR - for the wall (or fencing or obstacle or whatever you want to call it).

[Cow Poke]

It is an opinion ...

Yes, that's what I said.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, and now she and her ilk are absolutely positively dead set on any kind of wall, declaring it IMMORAL. Why? Because she hates Trump as much as you do, so logic and reason fly right out the window.