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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You challenged my response to Sam talking about "It is not weak to love those that are hurting." Since what triggered it was about Buttigeg then it seems fair to ask just how he is hurting (I'll drop the weak part since I misread that)?

    Or was your response merely an attempt to deflect and distract?
    I think what Jim is trying to say in his own lovably convoluted way is --- Buttigieg is not claiming himself as the necessary object of the "love those that are hurting", but is indicating that he's the one who's loving the ones who are hurting and we're not - and he's not weak in doing so.

    Maybe something like that.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      No one can be perfect here, and no one is. But this reply to Sam's post is closer to what one would expect of a heckler at an outdoor evangelistic service than a person that has accepted Christ.

      Why?
      I’m not surprised you’re fooled by his smug, holier than thou, attitude since you have a little bit of it yourself. A proper church should never look like a museum, but should resemble a hospital filled with the sick in need of healing. Maybe that’s your problem with Trump, he too much resembles the sick and dying and not enough of the perfection you seem to desire.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        I’m not surprised you’re fooled by his smug, holier than thou, attitude since you have a little bit of it yourself.
        Just a little bit?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Just a little bit?
          I was trying to be a bit nice. I can’t stand smug people, the kind of, “Why are you doing a thing for them?” The answer to such a question is.....

          “Because we are supposed to.”
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            So, you're going to revert to the old liberal line "it's not even a human until...."? I have to admit, I am a LITTLE surprised.
            This is a tangent that's been covered a million times so there's no need to get into it. But, briefly:

            -- If we're going by biblical standards (or even much of modern Judaism), "life" equates to breath, which equates to birth. But that's not a necessary or even desirable standard so we should try to understand when an organism becomes a "being"

            -- A "being" necessitates the function of sensation and processing, which necessitates higher-level brain function. In human embryos, that higher-level brain function -- the fundamental substrate of personhood -- begins developing at 24 weeks and is typically developed around 30 weeks.

            -- Regardless of all of that, we're not bean counters. "Number of lives" is meritorious as a metric only inasmuch as it relates to "amount of suffering". And since the suffering of a single child is infinitely greater than the suffering of a thousand 12-week embryos, an ethicist will have to consider the possibility that the greater evil is the suffering of the child. Certainly, we take this approach to contraception (as gametes are living cells, much like zygotes) and organ donation of brain-dead persons.

            It is argued, therefore, that the purposeful oppression and suffering of children fleeing their dangerous homes to the protection of USA by separating them from their parents as a deterrent measure or forcing them to remain in Mexico while they await an asylum trial is a greater evil than abortions, at least those earlier than 24-30 weeks.

            --Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              And people in comas don't have what can be called "a fully functioning brain" and depending on what you mean by that, neither do millions of people suffering from various neurological disorders. Is it okay to euthanize them as well?
              A false equivalence that seems purposeful; people with neurological disorders of the type you are implying have sufficiently functional brain function -- i.e., they possess the property or capacity of consciousness. We do, in fact, euthanize those whose brain function deteriorates to a level where the property or capacity of consciousness is irrevocably lost ("brain dead"). We do so without their consent, understanding they are no longer "persons" with the inalienable rights that come with personhood.

              --Sam
              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                An enemy of the cross doesn't believe I'm a true believer! I think I have the vapors!!!
                I believe you are an enemy of the cross. At least I don't claim to believe while others claim to believe so only to promote an agenda that is contrary to what Jesus taught.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  A response to a bunch of smug, arrogant holier-than-thou sanctimoniousness would be my guess.
                  I think it's notable that Cow Poke and others can advocate for some standard of Christianity where someone like Buttigieg (or myself) can't be called Christian or even legitimately commentate on the Gospel without raising anyone's hackles -- but pointing out that cruelty and oppression are greater sins, by the same biblical standards, and are not only exhibited by people on this forum but supported in powerful Christians crafting policy for millions amounts to "sanctimoniousness".

                  Now, that's just applying the same standard of biblical interpretation, focused on clear and pervasive themes throughout Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, and applied with the same priorities that Christ held in His teachings. Nothing that would be out of place in any seminary or even Sunday School discussion.

                  If the knee-jerk reaction to that isn't introspection and rational assessment but defensive posturing ... well, no better day than a Sunday.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                    I believe you are an enemy of the cross. At least I don't claim to believe while others claim to believe so only to promote an agenda that is contrary to what Jesus taught.
                    Trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs I see Charles sorry it isn't Charity if you are forced to do it Charity comes from the heart you voluntarily give of yourself not force others to give that is what Jesus showed us he voluntarily gave of himself so much so that he went to the Cross. CP practices what he preaches and learned from Jesus he gives of himself he does not force others to give.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                      Trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs I see Charles sorry it isn't Charity if you are forced to do it Charity comes from the heart you voluntarily give of yourself not force others to give that is what Jesus showed us he voluntarily gave of himself so much so that he went to the Cross. CP practices what he preaches and learned from Jesus he gives of himself he does not force others to give.
                      This is not adressing my points and assumes I hold opinions that I don't, so I am not going to comment further on it.
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        So, you're going to revert to the old liberal line "it's not even a human until...."? I have to admit, I am a LITTLE surprised.
                        No cp. I am saying that most of the time what is aborted can not be correctly classified a human body. My finger is human, but it is not a human body.

                        That a developing fetuses transitions from a single human cell to a complete functioning human body over the period of gestation is scientific fact. Just as it is scientific fact that those early stages do not yet qualify as 'a human body'. As offended as you are that I would raise that fact as a counter to your appeal, it is simple fact that you are not accurate to claim that every abortion involves a dead [ human] body.
                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-19-2020, 12:35 PM.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I think what Jim is trying to say in his own lovably convoluted way is --- Buttigieg is not claiming himself as the necessary object of the "love those that are hurting", but is indicating that he's the one who's loving the ones who are hurting and we're not - and he's not weak in doing so.

                          Maybe something like that.
                          There was nothing convoluted about what I said CP, though your summary still misses the mark. Rogues reply to Sam indicated Sam was describing a creampuf Christ. What Sam described however was nothing of the sort, and for the reason's I gave.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            I’m not surprised you’re fooled by his smug, holier than thou, attitude since you have a little bit of it yourself. A proper church should never look like a museum, but should resemble a hospital filled with the sick in need of healing. Maybe that’s your problem with Trump, he too much resembles the sick and dying and not enough of the perfection you seem to desire.
                            The church as hospital for the sick is accurate. The church as a playground for the unrepentant to practice sin, however, is not.
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-19-2020, 12:47 PM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              ...it is scientific fact that those early stages do not yet qualify as 'a human body'.
                              No, that is not a scientific fact, it's a philosophical interpretation of a scientific fact.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                No, that is not a scientific fact, it's a philosophical interpretation of a scientific fact.
                                Your finger is not a human person.

                                Comment

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