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Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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Is The Bible Literally True?
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOf course, if what I wrote in post #273 in the Innerancy thread is correct it doesn't even matter since the period of the curse was either limited to Jeconiah's own lifetime and/or the immediate future after his death, or God rescinded the curse for some reason (According to rabbinical tradition that reason would be that Jeconiah repented of his sins in prison).1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Same Hakeem View PostThanks for sharing such valuable information. How is Mary traced to David?
Source: http://christianthinktank.com/fabprof4.html
And for fairly short discussion between me and tabibito on this issue, see the thread You Say You Want An Evolution!, starting from page 16, or so: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...lution!/page16
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Originally posted by Same Hakeem View PostConiah was one of the ancestors of Jesus according to Matthew 1:11. And God said in Jer. 22:30 that this Coniah will not sit on the throne of David. So once Jesus sits on the throne of David, the words of God in Jer. 22:30 will be conflicted.
Matthew 1:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
11 Josiah begot [a]Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
Footnotes:
Matthew 1:11 Or Coniah or Jehoiachin
Jeremiah 22:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 Thus says the Lord:
‘Write this man down as childless,
A man who shall not prosper in his days;
For none of his descendants shall prosper,
Sitting on the throne of David,
And ruling anymore in Judah.’ ”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=NKJV
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As I recall, the prophecy said that the Messiah would be from (ek) a descendant of David - which might prove significant. If of course, I recall correctly.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostOf course, if what I wrote in post #273 in the Innerancy thread is correct it doesn't even matter since the period of the curse was either limited to Jeconiah's own lifetime and/or the immediate future after his death, or God rescinded the curse for some reason (According to rabbinical tradition that reason would be that Jeconiah repented of his sins in prison).Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-08-2019, 01:32 PM.
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[QUOTE=Chrawnus;639908]That would be through the genealogy in Luke.
However, Luke 3:31 mentions Nathan (not Solomon) as a descendant of David and not through Solomon. Solomon (not Nathan) was the selected son for the Davidic line as per I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18, 1 Chronicles 29:1, 1 Chronicles 28:5 and 1 Chronicles. 29:24.
1 Chronicles 22:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’
2 Chronicles 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, ‘You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.’
1 Chronicles 29:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Offerings for Building the Temple
29 Furthermore King David said to all the assembly: “My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is young and inexperienced; and the work is great, because the [a]temple is not for man but for the Lord God.
1 Chronicles 28:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 And of all my sons (for the Lord has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the Lord over Israel.
1 Chronicles 29:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 All the leaders and the mighty men, and also all the sons of King David, submitted[a] themselves to King Solomon.Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-08-2019, 02:23 PM.
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Originally posted by Same Hakeem View PostYour statement, "the period of the curse was either limited to Jeconiah's own lifetime" is true because Jer. 22:30 says "he shall not proper in his days" but the same Jer. 22:30 goes on to say "none of his descendants will be sitting on the throne of David and ruling in Judah"
And the NET version:
As you can see, the word that is translated as descendants in the translation you're using can also be translated as sons, or offspring. So it's possible to read the verse to say that Jeconiah wouldn't "succeed" during his lifetime, because none of his sons/offspring would succeed him as king of Judah. In other words, the phrase "in his days" gives context to the word translated as descendants/sons/offspring so that the "descendants" that is spoken about here is limited to his immediate offspring.
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[QUOTE=Same Hakeem;640030]Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostThat would be through the genealogy in Luke.
However, Luke 3:31 mentions Nathan (not Solomon) as a descendant of David and not through Solomon. Solomon (not Nathan) was the selected son for the Davidic line as per I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18, 1 Chronicles 29:1, 1 Chronicles 28:5 and 1 Chronicles. 29:24.
1 Chronicles 22:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’
2 Chronicles 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, ‘You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.’
1 Chronicles 29:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Offerings for Building the Temple
29 Furthermore King David said to all the assembly: “My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is young and inexperienced; and the work is great, because the [a]temple is not for man but for the Lord God.
1 Chronicles 28:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 And of all my sons (for the Lord has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the Lord over Israel.
1 Chronicles 29:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
24 All the leaders and the mighty men, and also all the sons of King David, submitted[a] themselves to King Solomon.
http://christianthinktank.com/fabprof4.html
In other words, when Joseph married Mary he also adopted Jesus as his son, and therefore Jesus became the legal heir of Joseph, and became part of the royal heir line.
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[QUOTE=Chrawnus;640083]Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
This was answered in the portion of the article that I cited in the post you're replying to:
http://christianthinktank.com/fabprof4.html
In other words, when Joseph married Mary he also adopted Jesus as his son, and therefore Jesus became the legal heir of Joseph, and became part of the royal heir line.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostI think it would be literally impossible for Jesus to have gotten his genes from anyone other than Mary...1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostThe result would be a hybrid, but the records show that He himself became human.
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[QUOTE=Chrawnus;640083]Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
This was answered in the portion of the article that I cited in the post you're replying to:
http://christianthinktank.com/fabprof4.html
In other words, when Joseph married Mary he also adopted Jesus as his son, and therefore Jesus became the legal heir of Joseph, and became part of the royal heir line.
The bigger contradiction is that Jesus could not be traced through Joseph as claimed by Matthew 1:16 because Jesus had no biological father and hence Jesus could not be his father.Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-09-2019, 06:31 AM.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostThe records show that Mary became pregnant with Him through the power of the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure why Mary would need to go through what would essentially be an unnecessary farce if He could have just made Himself a human body and soul out of thin air. Surely Mary becoming pregnant implies quite heavily that she was the actual biological mother of Jesus (and thus passed on her genes to Him), rather than just a convenient incubator.
God assessed necessities ...
The necessity was for Jesus of Nazareth to be a man like any other, partaking fully of human identity, indistinguishable from any of his brothers. He did not regard equality with God as booty, but emptied himself to take on the form of a servant ... the list continues. It would seem that becoming human made development from a baby and child at least desirable. Not to mention that prophecy did say he would be born.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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