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  • #46
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    No, it means if you pay tax you should be represented - it says nothing at all about how those representatives are chosen.
    I don't buy this explanation. Let's say that the British King had declared, "America needs to be represented! I will appoint my close friend in Britain, Duke Charles, and he will Totally Represent America and Totally Not Be A Puppet For His And My Interests"... would that have been acceptable? Of course not.

    It's self-evident that elected representatives represent their voters. If the people can't vote, they are not being represented.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      It's self-evident that elected representatives represent their voters. If the people can't vote, they are not being represented.
      Ten year olds aren't taxed, either.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Ten year olds aren't taxed, either.
        Um, yes they are. They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes). They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials. They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

        This is why democratic republics are fun!
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Um, yes they are.
          Um, not necessarily.

          They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes).
          That's a WHOLE LOT of assumin' ya got goin' on there.

          They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials.
          Um, I never claimed they weren't.

          They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

          This is why democratic republics are fun!
          Um, you just lookin' for a fight?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            Um, yes they are. They pay sales tax, ad valorum taxes (assuming they do really well with that paper route) and even income tax if the income is high enough (okay, really well with several paper routes). They are also represented - a congressman represents everyone in his or her district - which is true of all elected officials. They aren't yet enfranchised, that's all.

            This is why democratic republics are fun!
            IIRC their parents are the ones who pay the ad valorum and income taxes. Their minor children's earnings are considered the parent's income (at least that's the way it was back in the Upper Paleolithic when I was a young'un).

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              IIRC their parents are the ones who pay the ad valorum and income taxes. Their minor children's earnings are considered the parent's income (at least that's the way it was back in the Upper Paleolithic when I was a young'un).
              Um, the IRS makes this much more convoluted....

              William is 16. His mother claims an exemption for him on her income tax return. He worked part time on weekends during the school year and full time during the summer. He earned $7,000 in wages. He didn't have any unearned income.

              He must file a tax return because he has earned income only and his gross income is more than $6,350. If he is blind, he doesn't have to file a return because his gross income isn't more than $7,900.


              TurboTax website does a better job of explaining it.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #52
                So yeah, they do pay taxes.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Teallaura
                  We have several hundred jurisdictions that would have to be involved - the chances at this stage are pretty high we'd be sending voter registrations to dead people and people that moved away ten years earlier. Someday, yeah, it could work, but at this stage it's a huge expense that isn't really justified - there are plenty of opportunities to register that come in the mail.
                  Practicality comes first of course, but it seems a good thing to work towards none the less. Seems like it would force jurisdictions to get things sorted out that should have been sorted out to begin with.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    It's self-evident that elected representatives represent...
                    ...some of their voters, if they have to in order to get re-elected, if they care about being re-elected.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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                    • #55
                      rather than letting everyone vote, they should have to pass a minimum political knowledge test so their vote is informed.

                      Nothing hard, just so they are not morons voting for Mickey Mouse or Oprah Winfrey.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Roy View Post
                        ...some of their voters, if they have to in order to get re-elected, if they care about being re-elected.
                        Pretty much what I said. (or intended to say)
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          rather than letting everyone vote, they should have to pass a minimum political knowledge test so their vote is informed.

                          Nothing hard, just so they are not morons voting for Mickey Mouse or Oprah Winfrey.
                          Poll tests have an onerous history. All too often folks who were from groups that the government didn't want voting (usually minorities) were forced to provide precise answers and disqualified if they didn't give a perfectly correct answer while others were waved through with a "close enough."

                          Back when I was in skewl our 9th grade Civics teacher gave an example of one that was used in Tennessee: "What is the term of a Supreme Court Justice?" She said I was the only one she ever asked that question to who gave the "correct" answer. Knowing it was a trick question, I replied "Life with good behavior, since they can always be impeached."

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Poll tests have an onerous history. All too often folks who were from groups that the government didn't want voting (usually minorities) were forced to provide precise answers and disqualified if they didn't give a perfectly correct answer while others were waved through with a "close enough."
                            Unfortunately, yes. Way too many people cast their vote for ignorant or frivolous (i.e., gotta vote for the woman because woman or man because man) reasons to make it likely that the best person will win. It would be nice if there were an impartial way of weeding out those votes, but there isn't.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Unfortunately, yes. Way too many people cast their vote for ignorant or frivolous (i.e., gotta vote for the woman because woman or man because man) reasons to make it likely that the best person will win. It would be nice if there were an impartial way of weeding out those votes, but there isn't.
                              Not allowing 5 year olds is a good start, so there's that!
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Unfortunately, yes. Way too many people cast their vote for ignorant or frivolous (i.e., gotta vote for the woman because woman or man because man) reasons to make it likely that the best person will win. It would be nice if there were an impartial way of weeding out those votes, but there isn't.
                                Yup. My first presidential election I knew a whole lot of people who voted for Jimmy Carter even though they despised him or thought he was a so-so governor at best solely because he was a Southerner or from Georgia.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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