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Botham Shem Jean

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  • I expect we will be hearing a lot more about the marijuana. Dana Loesch has repeatedly brought it up in the context of the Philandro Castille case, citing it as why the NRA ultimately chose not to back him.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I expect we will be hearing a lot more about the marijuana. Dana Loesch has repeatedly brought it up in the context of the Philandro Castille case, citing it as why the NRA ultimately chose not to back him.
      That case was despicable. And that he walked scoot free was worse. He got a severance package, and transitioned gracefully to another career.

      If the same thing happens here there will be riots. And I honestly wouldn't blame those involved.
      Last edited by Leonhard; 09-17-2018, 01:23 AM.

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      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        OK, this is interesting --- according to CNN, the officer said she parked on the wrong floor, went to the wrong apartment, and the door was partly opened.... (1 minute 02 in the video) If that's true, then the whole discussion about keys or whatever is mute. HOWEVER, it would raise your suspicion if you came home and "your" door was partly opened. I don't know about the truth of that part.

        In that same video, supposedly, the neighbors heard a pounding on the door, and her saying "open up" (1 minute 20) -- if the door was ajar, why would she need to yell that?

        It appears that a search warrant AFTER THE FACT found the marijuana -- again, absolutely nothing to do with the shooting.

        The whole things is starting to get even stinkier, I think.
        Why would she yell "open up" if she thought it was her own apartment where nobody else lived? I think in this case I would be very suspicious of neighbor's claims. They seem to conflict too much with each other. Or at least what is being reported in the papers.

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        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Why would she yell "open up" if she thought it was her own apartment where nobody else lived? I think in this case I would be very suspicious of neighbor's claims. They seem to conflict too much with each other. Or at least what is being reported in the papers.
          Correct, you need to stick with the basic facts - she obviously went to the wrong apartment with no justifiable cause (no dispute on that) and killed a man for no justifiable reason (this is where they're going to try to justify it, but it's gonna be a tough sell).

          The ONLY reason this wouldn't be, in Texas, considered "murder" is that there is no proof she INTENDED to kill him.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Why would she yell "open up" if she thought it was her own apartment where nobody else lived? I think in this case I would be very suspicious of neighbor's claims. They seem to conflict too much with each other. Or at least what is being reported in the papers.
            There is speculation that what Guyger said was: "get on the floor" but the neighbor heard it as "open the door"...plausible I think...
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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            • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
              There is speculation that what Guyger said was: "get on the floor" but the neighbor heard it as "open the door"...plausible I think...
              THAT could be. If that were the case, that would be acceptable police procedure given the circumstances of finding somebody in an apartment you believed to be your own home. That, however, takes us back to - how did she make that error? Was she under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

              (Do we know how long she lived at this apartment?)
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Was she under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
                I hope the police records on that doesn't remain sealed after the trial is over. I'd really love to know that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  THAT could be. If that were the case, that would be acceptable police procedure given the circumstances of finding somebody in an apartment you believed to be your own home. That, however, takes us back to - how did she make that error? Was she under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

                  (Do we know how long she lived at this apartment?)
                  FWIU, she very recently moved there, (a month or so ago?) She came off a 15 hour shift. For those of you who don't know, Dallas Police Dept. is losing officers at an astounding rate. According to this article (I didn't know it was this bad TBH) Dallas now has 600 less officers than it did in 2010:

                  The Dallas Police Department has 600 fewer officers than it did in 2010. The staffing levels are dire.There are not enough of officers and more are leaving. On top of that, half of the more experienced command staff has walked out the door.
                  Many of them are at odds with new Police Chief Renee Hall. "Many of the best and brightest are going to other departments, and now you have the command staff. We are beginning to see the best and the brightest go on to do the same thing,” said Blankenbaker.


                  So, there's no telling how much Overtime she has been working. Nevertheless, she was tired and she accidentally(?) parked on the wrong level of the parking garage and walked across the causeway to what she thought was her apartment. Finding the door ajar(?). FWIU (and I may have misunderstood), the locks on all the doors are electronic similar to a Hotel card/key type thing, so her card opening the door would be a really weird fluke, or the door wasn't closed completely.
                  "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                  "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                    FWIU, she very recently moved there, (a month or so ago?)
                    OK, so it's liked she "parked on the same floor for months and months, and suddenly couldn't remember where she parks. Also, most parking garages in Dallas, unless you have a reserved spot, you drive and drive up and around until you find a spot. Visiting hospitals in Houston, I've parked on the wrong floor more than a few times.

                    She came off a 15 hour shift.
                    That could be a factor, of course, but not an excuse. (And I realize you're not offering it as one)

                    So, there's no telling how much Overtime she has been working. Nevertheless, she was tired and she accidentally(?) parked on the wrong level of the parking garage
                    I think that's plausible.

                    and walked across the causeway to what she thought was her apartment. Finding the door ajar(?). FWIU (and I may have misunderstood), the locks on all the doors are electronic similar to a Hotel card/key type thing, so her card opening the door would be a really weird fluke, or the door wasn't closed completely.
                    I'm finding the "door ajar" comment was early on, so I'm inclined to believe that may have been true, which, if true, makes the type of lock/key pretty much irrelevant.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Correct, you need to stick with the basic facts - she obviously went to the wrong apartment with no justifiable cause (no dispute on that) and killed a man for no justifiable reason (this is where they're going to try to justify it, but it's gonna be a tough sell).

                      The ONLY reason this wouldn't be, in Texas, considered "murder" is that there is no proof she INTENDED to kill him.
                      well she did intend to kill him. Because she thought he was a burglar in her apartment. But she didn't intend to kill some innocent black man in his own apartment.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        THAT could be. If that were the case, that would be acceptable police procedure given the circumstances of finding somebody in an apartment you believed to be your own home. That, however, takes us back to - how did she make that error? Was she under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

                        (Do we know how long she lived at this apartment?)
                        I think they said 5 months or so.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I think they said 5 months or so.
                          Still, knowing parking garages, I think it's not too terribly unreasonable to think she may have accidentally parked on the wrong floor, and didn't need to be drunk or drugged to do that. Personally, I'm pretty much eliminating that as a factor.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            well she did intend to kill him.
                            "Police training" would insist the intent was to "stop" not "kill", even when using lethal force. There's no indication she went there with the intent to kill him.

                            Because she thought he was a burglar in her apartment. But she didn't intend to kill some innocent black man in his own apartment.
                            As a police officer, her "intent" should have been to stop, not to kill. In trial, it would boil down, I think, "did she go there with intent to kill him", not just "did she end up killing him"? Hence, "murder" would be very difficult to prove.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              OK, so it's liked she "parked on the same floor for months and months, and suddenly couldn't remember where she parks. Also, most parking garages in Dallas, unless you have a reserved spot, you drive and drive up and around until you find a spot. Visiting hospitals in Houston, I've parked on the wrong floor more than a few times.



                              That could be a factor, of course, but not an excuse. (And I realize you're not offering it as one)



                              I think that's plausible.



                              I'm finding the "door ajar" comment was early on, so I'm inclined to believe that may have been true, which, if true, makes the type of lock/key pretty much irrelevant.
                              TBH, I'm seeing this more as Criminally Negligent Homicide instead of Manslaughter because it appears from the facts I've seen to have been a tragic though preventable mistake. She was negligent in determining whether she was in the correct apartment, and negligent on determining who was in her apartment, and failed to restrain her impulse to shoot rather quickly...

                              In my limited experience (I've served as a juror on two criminal trials, one of which was a manslaughter case) the D.A. often will bring different levels of charges that a jury can select from. And IIRC, in the manslaughter case for example, there were levels of charges we (the jury) could have selected from: Manslaughter, and Criminally negligent homicide. (We actually found him not guilty for reason of self-defense.)
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                                TBH, I'm seeing this more as Criminally Negligent Homicide instead of Manslaughter because it appears from the facts I've seen to have been a tragic though preventable mistake. She was negligent in determining whether she was in the correct apartment, and negligent on determining who was in her apartment, and failed to restrain her impulse to shoot rather quickly...

                                In my limited experience (I've served as a juror on two criminal trials, one of which was a manslaughter case) the D.A. often will bring different levels of charges that a jury can select from. And IIRC, in the manslaughter case for example, there were levels of charges we (the jury) could have selected from: Manslaughter, and Criminally negligent homicide. (We actually found him not guilty for reason of self-defense.)
                                Criminally negligient homicide is still 5 years, and you'll never work as a cop again. That would be satisfactory to me.

                                Comment

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