Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

[Darth Executor]

No - but it IS about attempting to make things even. Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege. It is evident in the wage disparity we see, the implicit bias we see in so many venues (Air B&B, Uber, etc.), in the recent focus on sexual exploitation/harassment in pretty much any venue, and a whole range of areas. I benefit from this privelege, but I actually did nothing to earn it. I was merely born white and male by whatever fluke of fate. My privilege places on me are requirement that I seek out where those kinds of injustice continue to live, and do what I can to correct them. Part of that is done with how I choose to use my time (being here and posting here in discussions like this one is part of it). Part with how I choose to use my charitable dollars. Part of it is how I choose to use my manual labor. It also impacted decisions I made about adoption of my children.

I do believe we should all be doing these things, but my primary focus is on what I do, and how I can help to bring balance/justice to situations that are intrinsically out of balance and unjust.

I hate to break it to you but your "privilege" isn't yours, it was created by your ancestors for their progeny and your duty is to have your own (biological if possible) kids and pass it on to them. Because you are breaking this fundamental social contract you are pretty much a traitorous arsonist and your civilization will end. Sad!

[Tassman]

I hate to break it to you but your "privilege" isn't yours, it was created by your ancestors for their progeny

Being white in a predominantly white society does not confer superiority on those who happen to be white, nor does it entitle you to "privilege". . This is especially evident when one looks at those who claim white supremacy...they’re ignorant and boorish for the most part. Look at the baying Charlottesville thugs that Donald so admired.

and your duty is to have your own (biological if possible) kids and pass it on to them.

Why is it a duty? And why is it preferable to have your own “biological kids”...racial purity perhaps? In a multi-cultural society such as the US or Australia there can be no such thing as a privileged class...all have equal rights and privileges.

Because you are breaking this fundamental social contract you are pretty much a traitorous arsonist and your civilization will end. Sad!

A class traitor, no less! Just listen to yourself.

[Mountain Man]

Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege own self-loathing.

That's what you really meant. Gladly, I don't have that problem "White privilege" means nothing more than I am expected to work hard for my successes, and take personal responsibility for my failures.

[carpedm9587]

That's what you really meant. Gladly, I don't have that problem "White privilege" means nothing more than I am expected to work hard for my successes, and take personal responsibility for my failures.

I said what I really meant, MM. On the off chance this is not another of your trolling posts, you paint a false dichotomy. White privilege gave me a boost - it did not make me successful. I did that. But there is no question I started at a better place than a black woman born in a Chicago project, and had advantages she will probably never have in my lifetime. And that boosted starting place and those advantages were not things I earned or merited. Recognizing it, and working to help balance the scales is what I refer to as social justice. It has nothing to do with self-loathing.

[Mountain Man]

The fact that you even buy into the "white privilege" false narrative says it all, as if all whites have the same advantages, and all blacks have the same disadvantages. You say the scales need to be balanced? Wrong, because they are not inherently out of balance just because you were born white. Life isn't a zero-sum game

[Sparko]

We apparently have different moral codes. When my moral code tells me "I ought do X," then I am responsible for doing it. Leaving someone in a harmful/dangerous/stuck position they cannot extracate themselves from when I am capable of helping them extracate themselves is immoral - ergo I ought to help - ergo I am responsible for helping. You, apparently have a different code. Given the parable of the Samaritan in the Christian scriptures, I am a little surprised by that - but it is your choice.

Maybe you two are speaking past each other. Instead of saying you are "responsible" to do X, perhaps you mean you are "morally obligated" to do X

[Sparko]

No - but it IS about attempting to make things even. Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege.

After this I can't take anything you say seriously. sorry.

PS My ancestors (including my dad) came from Appalachia where some of the poorest white folk in the world still live. Tell me about their white privilege.

[demi-conservative]

No - but it IS about attempting to make things even. Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege. It is evident in the wage disparity we see, the implicit bias we see in so many venues (Air B&B, Uber, etc.), in the recent focus on sexual exploitation/harassment in pretty much any venue, and a whole range of areas. I benefit from this privelege, but I actually did nothing to earn it. I was merely born white and male by whatever fluke of fate. My privilege places on me are requirement that I seek out where those kinds of injustice continue to live, and do what I can to correct them. Part of that is done with how I choose to use my time (being here and posting here in discussions like this one is part of it). Part with how I choose to use my charitable dollars. Part of it is how I choose to use my manual labor. It also impacted decisions I made about adoption of my children.

I do believe we should all be doing these things, but my primary focus is on what I do, and how I can help to bring balance/justice to situations that are intrinsically out of balance and unjust.

'centrist' is just prog parroting dogma of progs. Who knew???

[carpedm9587]

After this I can't take anything you say seriously. sorry.

PS My ancestors (including my dad) came from Appalachia where some of the poorest white folk in the world still live. Tell me about their white privilege.

At no point did I say every white male benefits from white privilege, though I do believe that most of us do.

As for taking me seriously, I leave that entirely to you. I am aware of the widspread rejection of the concept of white/male privilege among those of the far right.

[carpedm9587]

Maybe you two are speaking past each other. Instead of saying you are "responsible" to do X, perhaps you mean you are "morally obligated" to do X

Yes - a moral obligation is a responsibility. Not all responsibilities are moral obligations.

[carpedm9587]

The fact that you even buy into the "white privilege" false narrative says it all, as if all whites have the same advantages, and all blacks have the same disadvantages. You say the scales need to be balanced? Wrong, because they are not inherently out of balance just because you were born white. Life isn't a zero-sum game

At no point did I say everyone has the same advantages. I spoke to my awareness of my white/male privilege. In general, whites and males tend to be more privileged then blacks and females. We are not all at the same place in that hierarchy, and there are indeed some privileged black women and some disenfranchised white men. Nothing I said is inconsistent with that.

[Cow Poke]

I said what I really meant, MM. On the off chance this is not another of your trolling posts, you paint a false dichotomy. White privilege gave me a boost - it did not make me successful. I did that. But there is no question I started at a better place than a black woman born in a Chicago project, and had advantages she will probably never have in my lifetime.

OK so far!

And that boosted starting place and those advantages were not things I earned or merited.

Sill OK so far....

Recognizing it, and working to help balance the scales is what I refer to as social justice.

And it's wonderful that you voluntarily want to do some thing good. "Social Justice", however, is more about forcing guilt and 'equality' on people.
The dictionary definition is...

justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society.
"individuality gives way to the struggle for social justice"

If I want to 'redistribute my wealth', that should be a personal decision, and not based on being 'guilted' by a bunch of feel good liberals.

It has nothing to do with self-loathing.

I think, in your case, it sure came across that way in your initial post on this.

So, particularly in the "redistribution of wealth" aspect of "social justice" -- you think this should be done by law?

[Zymologist]

No - but it IS about attempting to make things even. Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege. It is evident in the wage disparity we see, the implicit bias we see in so many venues (Air B&B, Uber, etc.), in the recent focus on sexual exploitation/harassment in pretty much any venue, and a whole range of areas. I benefit from this privelege, but I actually did nothing to earn it. I was merely born white and male by whatever fluke of fate. My privilege places on me are requirement that I seek out where those kinds of injustice continue to live, and do what I can to correct them. Part of that is done with how I choose to use my time (being here and posting here in discussions like this one is part of it). Part with how I choose to use my charitable dollars. Part of it is how I choose to use my manual labor. It also impacted decisions I made about adoption of my children.

I do believe we should all be doing these things, but my primary focus is on what I do, and how I can help to bring balance/justice to situations that are intrinsically out of balance and unjust.

I find the typical approach to "white privilege" and "male privilege" to be an unhelpful oversimplification. For example, males are statistically more likely to:

1. commit suicide
2. be a victim of a violent crime
3. not receive custody of their kids in a divorce situation
4. work in a dangerous job, be injured on the job, die on the job, etc.

Here's another that bugs me: why does everybody want to talk about white male privilege, but nobody wants to talk about "pretty privilege"? The fact that attractive people have it easier than unattractive people (like me) seems undeniable.

I could go on: I'm a white male, but I also have an extremely unusual chronic digestion problem that makes many things far more difficult than they should be. Does this factor into consideration of my "white privilege"?

Here's one obvious downside of being a white male: you will, simply by virtue of being a white male, be dismissed by someone pontificating about white privilege sooner or later.

[carpedm9587]

OK so far!

Sill OK so far....

And it's wonderful that you voluntarily want to do some thing good. "Social Justice", however, is more about forcing guilt and 'equality' on people.
The dictionary definition is...

justice in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society.
"individuality gives way to the struggle for social justice"

If I want to 'redistribute my wealth', that should be a personal decision, and not based on being 'guilted' by a bunch of feel good liberals.

You are assuming that social justice always has to take the form of "forced" redistribution of wealth. It does not.

I think, in your case, it sure came across that way in your initial post on this.

As Robert Frost once said (and I paraphrase), "Then you (and others) put it there." Go back and reread the post. I did not put that in there.

So, particularly in the "redistribution of wealth" aspect of "social justice" -- you think this should be done by law?

I think it should be done by law when the injustice is a current one (e.g., if a business is not paying their employees a living wage, I consider that theft of labor, and believe we should have laws preventing it). If the injustice is an inhereted one (like white and male privilege), I think it should be done through education, discussion, promotion, and encouragement. Just as no one is responsible for the ills of their forebears, no one is responsible for the disadvantages or privileges they inherit as a consequence.

[carpedm9587]

I find the typical approach to "white privilege" and "male privilege" to be an unhelpful oversimplification. For example, males are statistically more likely to:

1. commit suicide
2. be a victim of a violent crime
3. not receive custody of their kids in a divorce situation
4. work in a dangerous job, be injured on the job, die on the job, etc.

No one said that there are no disadvantages to being white/male. Overall, however, there is a tendency to more privilege than disadvantage for most of us.

Here's another that bugs me: why does everybody want to talk about white male privilege, but nobody wants to talk about "pretty privilege"? The fact that attractive people have it easier than unattractive people (like me) seems undeniable.

This is also absolutely true. It is also true related to height, physical abilities or limitations, and a wealth of other areas.

I could go on: I'm a white male, but I also have an extremely unusual chronic digestion problem that makes many things far more difficult than they should be. Does this factor into consideration of my "white privilege"?

Of course it does.

Here's one obvious downside of being a white male: you will, simply by virtue of being a white male, be dismissed by someone pontificating about white privilege sooner or later.

I do not believe I have dismissed anyone. As a matter of fact, I find myself somewhat amused by these strong reactions. I apparently have stepped on a nerve (again). Here was my original statement:

Day after day I am confronted with the reality of my male, white privilege. It is evident in the wage disparity we see, the implicit bias we see in so many venues (Air B&B, Uber, etc.), in the recent focus on sexual exploitation/harassment in pretty much any venue, and a whole range of areas. I benefit from this privelege, but I actually did nothing to earn it. I was merely born white and male by whatever fluke of fate. My privilege places on me are requirement that I seek out where those kinds of injustice continue to live, and do what I can to correct them. Part of that is done with how I choose to use my time (being here and posting here in discussions like this one is part of it). Part with how I choose to use my charitable dollars. Part of it is how I choose to use my manual labor. It also impacted decisions I made about adoption of my children.

I do believe we should all be doing these things, but my primary focus is on what I do, and how I can help to bring balance/justice to situations that are intrinsically out of balance and unjust.

With the exception of the one sentence that describes the various places where we can explicitly see white/male privilege enacted, the entire post is about myself, and simply acknowledges that I know I have inherited some privileges I did not earn. I believe we should all be examining this in our own lives, and taking appropriate action to balance. At no point did I say that the privilege was equally experienced by everyone, or everyone would have the same work to do to balance. Some of us would be givers (those with more privilege) and some receivers (those with less). I never accused anyone, I expressed no guilt about it. It is simply a reality that I take responsibility for acknowledging in my life and making choices to try to help bring what balance I can.

The reaction here is truly amazing.