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Justice Department Distances Itself From Giuliani

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    While Trump, Jr., et al., could reasonably defend themselves as not "willfully" violating the statute, Giuliani, who has already acted as Trump's attorney on campaign finance violations, cannot. More, the "deliverable" sought by the Trump administration — a public announcement of an investigation into the Bidens by the Ukrainian president — cannot similarly be considered as lacking value to the campaign because of its rejection by the campaign.
    We were reliably informed that Trump Jr. was going down because of the statute. The next circus act is about Giuliani, which is even more ridiculous because there's no evidence that it was for campaign purposes.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
      We were reliably informed that Trump Jr. was going down because of the statute. The next circus act is about Giuliani, which is even more ridiculous because there's no evidence that it was for campaign purposes.
      Just the evidence that at the time, Biden was his chief potential opponent.

      Sometimes you guys are just ... willfully ignorant.
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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      • #48
        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Just the evidence that at the time, Biden was his chief potential opponent.
        That's not actually evidence that the information was meant for his campaign.

        Sometimes you guys are just ... willfully ignorant.
        You're not dumb, but when it comes to Trump, TDS kicks in and you swallow Fake News whole, making you functionally a drooling idiot.
        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Whether or not you think it "beggars belief" is entirely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what the evidence shows, and to date, there is zero evidence that Trump was motivated by the upcoming election, zero evidence that Ukrainian officials had any idea that military funding had been temporarily suspended, and zero evidence that President Zelensky took any specific action to get the funding restored. Folks like Vindman can whine and pontificate about politics all they want, but that is not evidence of a crime.

          The entire case against Trump is based on the presumption that he's guilty, and Democrats are simply trying to backfill the evidence to make their accusations stick. It's such a travesty of justice that all American patriots, whether they like Trump or not, should be incensed by the abuse of power being exercised by House Democrats. The real danger is that Democrats could succeed in their coup, which will set the very dangerous precedent that a president can be impeached and removed from office purely as a matter of political expediency, which will, in effect, turn the Office of the President into a puppet of Congress.
          We don't just think it beggers belief, we know it. The President not only withheld nearly 400 million in military aid, but also made a White House visit by Zelensky dependent upon his making public an investigation into Biden. That's not Trumps concerning himself with corruption in Ukraine, that's Trump concerning himself with making public an investigation into his political opponent.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
            That's not actually evidence that the information was meant for his campaign.
            It is when a White House visit is made dependent upon Zelensky making an investigation into Biden public.

            You're not dumb, but when it comes to Trump, TDS kicks in and you swallow Fake News whole, making you functionally a drooling idiot.
            Don't concern yourself with that, Demi, we're not swallowing your idiotic fake news,

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            • #51
              Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
              We don't just think it beggers belief, we know it.
              What you think you know is irrelevant when the evidence isn't there to support your claims.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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              • #52
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                It is when a White House visit is made dependent upon Zelensky making an investigation into Biden public.
                That's how official government operates, how the USG operates, how governments worldwide operate. Your country does what I want, and you get a state visit, maybe even a state dinner.

                Don't concern yourself with that, Demi, we're not swallowing your idiotic fake news,
                Like a dog back to his vomit, you're back to drinking the kool-aid of Fake News, "he's going down this time, really!!!!'
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                  That's how official government operates, how the USG operates, how governments worldwide operate. Your country does what I want, and you get a state visit, maybe even a state dinner.
                  No, that's how dictators operate. Unlike in your country, we have actual laws that need be followed. Quid pro quo is okay, but not for personal gain.


                  Like a dog back to his vomit, you're back to drinking the kool-aid of Fake News, "he's going down this time, really!!!!'
                  No, I just said, no one takes you seriously, Demi, we know what you are, and everyone knows you're a fake anyway.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    What you think you know is irrelevant when the evidence isn't there to support your claims.
                    Yeah, except the evidence is there and you will remain forever blind to it.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Two OMB officials ...
                      “I know he was going to go to Ukraine, and I think he canceled a trip,” Trump said in the interview. “But, you know, Rudy has other clients other than me. I’m one person.”


                      I'm not finding any evidence Trump is actually paying Rudy.

                      POLITICS
                      OCTOBER 14, 2019 / 11:09 PM / A MONTH AGO
                      Exclusive: Trump lawyer Giuliani was paid $500,000 to consult on indicted associate's firm
                      Karen Freifeld, Aram Roston
                      WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, was paid $500,000 for work he did for a company co-founded by the Ukrainian-American businessman arrested last week on campaign finance charges, Giuliani told Reuters on Monday.

                      POLITICS
                      NOVEMBER 7, 2019 / 11:29 AM / 19 DAYS AGO
                      New York lawyer is source of $500,000 paid to Trump attorney Giuliani
                      Karen Freifeld
                      NEW YORK (Reuters) - A supporter of U.S. President Donald Trump paid the president’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani $500,000 on behalf of a company co-founded by a Ukrainian-American businessman who helped Giuliani investigate Trump’s political rival Joe Biden, the supporter’s lawyer told Reuters on Thursday.

                      Behind the Deal That Put Giuliani Together With a Dirt-Hunting Partner
                      By Kenneth P. Vogel, Ben Protess and Sarah Maslin Nir
                      Nov. 6, 2019
                      Rudy Giuliani wanted $500,000 to help a venture started by a man who would go on to help him in Ukraine. A Republican donor from Long Island put up the money.
                      WASHINGTON — It has been one of the enduring mysteries of the impeachment drama: Where did a cash-strapped Ukrainian-born American businessman get $500,000 to pay President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani?

                      Gucciardo, the supporter, is represented by Mr. Zelin.
                      Mr. Zelin said Mr. Gucciardo did not pay Mr. Giuliani personally, but rather made his investment by paying one of Mr. Giuliani’s consulting firms, Giuliani Partners. Mr. Gucciardo was “simply one of numerous other investors in the company and is nothing more than a passive investor,” Mr. Zelin said.

                      I think it'd be very interesting to see who else was investing in Fraud Guarantee's influence in promoting Ukrainian investigations against the Bidens.

                      Following the twists, we have Gucciardo, "among numerous other investors," paying Giuliani Partners to invest in Parnas' Fraud Guarantee to pay Giuliani to go after the Bidens in support of the president. Gucciardo's payment is in the form of a loan convertible into stock in a company with no clients, run by an otherwise penniless Ukrainian-born American.
                      The company being promoted by Mr. Parnas, Fraud Guarantee, was billed as a way for investors to get insurance against the risk of being defrauded. Mr. Gucciardo’s money was a loan that could be converted into a stake in the company, according to people familiar with the deal.

                      But it is not clear the stake would have any value, since Fraud Guarantee does not appear to have any customers. Mr. Giuliani did not make any commercials for the company or otherwise engage in any public marketing for it. Mr. Parnas, who was arrested last month on federal campaign finance charges, has opened talks with congressional impeachment investigators about his role in the Ukraine pressure campaign.

                      Gucciardo's payment was a loan. It was handed over to a company that's just a shell, a company that was never going to make money. Generally, that means he expected someone else, that is, someone with money, to pay him back.


                      The only clear financial benefit of this money flow would be to Ukrainian oligarchs who need to get Ukrainian anti-corruption workers out of the way. That's been done before, as now, with the assistance of Americans using money we might not be able to track completely, but we could track well enough to end in a criminal conviction.

                      Manafort worked for Trump for free, too.

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