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Warren calls Trumps bluff, proves native american heritage.

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Has Trump ever said anything that gives you the idea that he supports David Duke or the KKK? Any ACTUAL positive evidence? Like Trump at a KKK rally?

    You are trying to backdoor your opinion of Trump through a series of claims that he didn't deny it vehemently or timely enough. That's silly.
    Let's try to avoid the motives motif - ok? I see what I see. You see what you see. If we discuss those points of view without trying to cast one another as evil, without name calling, we might be able to gain understanding of what the other guy sees that we don't see. And that can, even if I still don't see it your way, or you don't see it my way, can at least bring understanding into the equation. Which can humanize the other side. Which can at least in our own little tiny corner of the country make progress in defusing the polarization that is ripping this country apart.

    As I said in my reply to Bill (the Cat), the issue isn't as much if Donald Trump directly identifies with the KKK or Duke or other white supremacists. He has a Jewish son in law that he does not appear to hate. He has sidled up to Israel. So unlike most of the KKK, white supremacist ilk, he does not show any signs of being anti-semitic. OTOH, He has made comments and acted in ways that could imply he is racist when it comes to blacks or certain immigrants (Mexicans and people of Islamic faith). Some of these could be attributed to his immigration goals, but it is hard to know what is the driver: i.e. does prejudice against the immigrants drive a harsh immigration policy, or does a harsh immigration policy produce actions that appear prejudicial.

    The case that can be made is that DT appears to pander to and avoid offending people like David Duke and other white-supremacists. They and He have many goals in common, and he is willing to avoid offending them to keep their vote.

    So do I have evidence he directly supports them? Only circumstantially, and only as regards immigration and black/white relations, not the entire gamut. But I wouldn't regardless. He is not stupid enough to directly support them. He wants to win and he needs their support to win, but he does not need to be one of them, in fact, to keep enough people pointed his way, he needs what he has. He needs to avoid doing anything that will directly pit them against him, but he needs to NOT alienate those in his base that true support for these sorts of groups would push away.

    And that is precisely where he sits and how he conducts himself on these issues.

    The problem is that to not repudiate these groups, to not speak against them in forceful terms when they come up in discussion, is contrary to everything this country stands for, and is to pour fuel on the racial divide in this country.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-18-2018, 08:02 AM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      And Trump has, for years, explicitly and unequivocally disavowed David Duke and condemned racism and white supremacy. The only time he seemed to hesitate was during a single interview with CNN where he later said that he was having trouble hearing the questions due to a faulty earpiece. Literally every other time he has spoken publicly about the matter, he has been neither hesitant nor ambivalent about denouncing Duke and the KKK. And yet liberals act like the one outlier is the only thing that matters. It's an irrational argument from people who hold to an irrational ideology.
      It's what the MSM does. They incessantly ask the same question of Republicans and conservatives over and over again and again ignoring previous responses ( maybe Charles is a reporter) in hopes of getting a "gotcha" moment. Notice how they never asked Hillary about the communists endorsing her much less harangued her constantly about it (and the communists have butchered more people by several orders of magnitude than the KKK has ever dreamed of doing).

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmuddle View Post
        ...sometime in the fall of 2015 Trump began a policy of not directly offending them. And that led to this interview and to his delay in saying anything that implied he, Donald Trump, of his own free will and on the offense wanted nothing whatsoever to do with white supremacy in any form.
        That is a bald-faced lie. I showed you video evidence where Trump just two days before the CNN interview emphatically and without hesitation disavowed David Duke during a televised press conference. Here's the video clip in question, February 26, 2016:



        Trump: "I didn’t even know he endorsed me. David Duke endorsed me? Okay, all right. I disavow, okay?"

        Two days later, February 28, during the CNN interview, Trump says he couldn't hear the questions clearly because of a faulty earpiece. If you read the CNN transcript, it's pretty clear that Trump heard something about "David Duke" and a reference to "groups" but didn't have the full context of the question and so answered the best he could, and his main intent seemed to be getting it on record that he had no personal relationship with David Duke.

        The day after the interview, February 29, Trump was on the Today Show and made his position crystal clear:

        "I’m sitting in a house in Florida, with a very bad earpiece that they gave me, and you could hardly hear what he was saying. But what I heard was ‘various groups.’ And I don’t mind disavowing anybody and I disavowed David Duke. And I disavowed him the day before at a major news conference…. I have no problem disavowing groups, but I’d at least like to know who they are. It would be very unfair to disavow a group if the group shouldn’t be disavowed. I have to know who the groups are. But I disavowed David Duke."

        March 1, Trump was asked by ABC news,

        "So, are you prepared right now to make a clear and unequivocal statement renouncing the support of all white supremacists?”

        His unflinching response: “Of course, I am."

        March 1, he was asked about it again at a press conference where he said,

        "We had a news conference and they asked me the exact same question. I said I disavow. Now, right after the [CNN interview] that we’re talking about — and I thought it was clear, but you know, we’re talking about groups, groups, groups. I do have to know the name of the group because, who knows? I mean, they have to give me the name of the group. But right after, when I reviewed it, I put out a tweet and I put out on Facebook that I totally disavow. Now everybody knew I did that but the press refused to look at that. It was right after. And I disavowed then; I disavowed today on ABC with George Stephanopoulos, I disavowed again. I mean, how many times are you supposed to disavow? But I disavow and hopefully it’s the final time I have to do it. But if you look at Facebook and if you look at Twitter, right after the show I put out a statement because I want everybody to be sure."

        You claim Trump was walking on eggshells because he didn't want to lose the support of white supremacists, but the facts clearly show that your claims are 100% false.

        It's OK, I don't expect you admit you're wrong. That's just the kind of guy you are.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          It's what the MSM does. They incessantly ask the same question of Republicans and conservatives over and over again and again ignoring previous responses ( maybe Charles is a reporter) in hopes of getting a "gotcha" moment. Notice how they never asked Hillary about the communists endorsing her much less harangued her constantly about it (and the communists have butchered more people by several orders of magnitude than the KKK has ever dreamed of doing).
          The issues the left has are definitely problems. And for those who vote for those on the Left to not push back against those issues is just as wrong as when those on the right do not push back against Trumps issues, like pandering to Duke or other White Supremacists. The problem is that by adopting these strategies for keeping power in American Government, by not taking a stand against the sorts of extremism that the KKK and the white supremacists or against the tactics of Antifa, or against the communists, we all compromise what America is supposed to be - a land of freedom, a land of opportunity, a land where anyone can become any good thing they want to become. Where everyone is equal, regardless of race, religion, or creed. So we should not be justifying the immoral actions of 'our side' by pointing fingers at the immoral actions of 'their side'. We should all, on both sides, be demanding that ALL sides stand against ALL of these things. Our votes are what put them there. Our votes are what can kick them out. So OUR voices, OUR expectations can and should be what is right - on ALL sides.


          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Notice how they never asked Hillary about the communists endorsing her much less harangued her constantly about it (and the communists have butchered more people by several orders of magnitude than the KKK has ever dreamed of doing).
            Or the fact that Hillary fondly referred to Exalted Cyclops of the KKK Robert Byrd as a close friend and mentor and "conscience of the senate".
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              The issues the left has are definitely problems. And for those who vote for those on the Left to not push back against those issues is just as wrong as when those on the right do not push back against Trumps issues, like pandering to Duke or other White Supremacists. The problem is that by adopting these strategies for keeping power in American Government, by not taking a stand against the sorts of extremism that the KKK and the white supremacists or against the tactics of Antifa, or against the communists, we all compromise what America is supposed to be - a land of freedom, a land of opportunity, a land where anyone can become any good thing they want to become. Where everyone is equal, regardless of race, religion, or creed. So we should not be justifying the immoral actions of 'our side' by pointing fingers at the immoral actions of 'their side'. We should all, on both sides, be demanding that ALL sides stand against ALL of these things. Our votes are what put them there. Our votes are what can kick them out. So OUR voices, OUR expectations can and should be what is right - on ALL sides.


              Jim
              I very much agree. This is what is right from a moral perspective if you rely on higher standards and don't go for whataboutism to justify the actions taken by "your side".

              The idea that these issues are a battle about between "us" and "them" is in itself revealing a misunderstanding of what is at stake in these situations since it does not put focus on what is right or wrong in all situations but rather put focus on what is right or wrong about “the others”. It is a rather slippery slope because you very often get the effect where the errors of the others get to justify the wrong steps you aim to take yourself. It should not be like that among people who are seriously concerned with what is right or wrong in all cases.
              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

              Comment


              • I think this says quite a lot:

                “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke, OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists,” Trump said on CNN’s State of the Union. “I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists.”

                “I’m just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here,” Tapper responded. http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/
                The fact that Trump would rather say "I know nothing about white supremacists" which is obviously a lie than actually condemn white supremacy is rather telling. Basically he will rather claim he is ignorant than doing what any person with moral integrity would do. These are Trump's own words. Don't blame the media for the words Trump himself says. It is very, very significant that he is so reluctant with his criticism in this case. It is good that he is not as reluctant now but I can't help wondering to what degree strategy plays a role in all of this.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                  I think this says quite a lot:



                  The fact that Trump would rather say "I know nothing about white supremacists" which is obviously a lie than actually condemn white supremacy is rather telling. Basically he will rather claim he is ignorant than doing what any person with moral integrity would do. These are Trump's own words. Don't blame the media for the words Trump himself says. It is very, very significant that he is so reluctant with his criticism in this case. It is good that he is not as reluctant now but I can't help wondering to what degree strategy plays a role in all of this.
                  Trump couldn't hear the questions and responded the best he could under the circumstances. He has repeatedly and unequivocally disavowed David Duke and his ilk on multiple occasions, including before and after the interview in question, and to continue to make an issue of this one isolated instance is intellectually dishonest.

                  Sadly, this is what I've come to expect from liberals.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Trump couldn't hear the questions and responded the best he could under the circumstances. He has repeatedly and unequivocally disavowed David Duke and his ilk on multiple occasions, including before and after the interview in question, and to continue to make an issue of this one isolated instance is intellectually dishonest.

                    Sadly, this is what I've come to expect from liberals.
                    Let's just repeat Trumps reply:

                    “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke, OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists,”

                    He talks a lot about not knowing. He does not know about David Duke. He clearly says "I don't know anything about what you are talking about..." He does not in any way claim he is unable to hear the question.

                    If you actually watch the video, you will see that they continue to debate why he cannot simply just condemn them and it goes on along the lines of "I don't know anything". http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/

                    So the idea that he could not hear the question is rather naive since the same type of question is repeated and the same type of answer given. Trying to cover this up with the statement that Trump could not hear the question seems to be both morally and intellectually dishonest.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Except he emphatically disavowed Duke and the KKK on multiple occasions, both before and after the interview, meaning that one instance is an outlier at worse. Why do you continue to dishonestly ignore that inconvenient truth?
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Don't we have a thread somewhere for the Duke controversy?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Except he emphatically disavowed Duke and the KKK on multiple occasions, both before and after the interview, meaning that one instance is an outlier at worse. Why do you continue to dishonestly ignore that inconvenient truth?
                          So you admit that your "he could not hear the question" thing did not work and now you are comming up with strange ideas that I ignore some kind of "inconvenient truth"? You said Trump did not hear the question when the truth is the same type of question was repeated quite many times and he clearly answered the question just not in the way a decent and knowing person would answer them.

                          I am not ignoring what Trump has said before or later. I am just seeing it all in the light of statements that you seem to want to ignore or come up with unlikely justifications of.
                          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Don't we have a thread somewhere for the Duke controversy?
                            Probably. I'm done discussing it since our resident liberals seem intent on pressing the issue by blatantly ignoring the facts.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                              So you admit that your "he could not hear the question" thing did not work...
                              Not what I said. Go read my previous posts in this thread. I'm done talking about it.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Probably. I'm done discussing it since our resident liberals seem intent on pressing the issue by blatantly ignoring the facts.
                                You mean ignoring things like the fact that Trump said:

                                “Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke, OK? I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists,” Trump said on CNN’s State of the Union. “I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists.”
                                http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/

                                ?
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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