For those of you who think we are to "keep" the 10 commandments...

Matt 5: 17-20

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished. "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Let us begin with the last verse of this statement from Jesus first...


For I say to you, that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.

What tremendous hope Jesus has placed in the hearts and minds of the people he is addressing. To give you a more clear understanding of this statement, think of it this way... Let's say Jesus was here just a few years ago and he was standing before a huge crowd with CNN broadcasting it live all over the world. Every person on the planet was watching intently. Standing next to Him was the Pope, Mother Teresa, & Billy Graham. Jesus looks right at the camera, and into the eyes of every person in the crowd and says "Unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pope, Mother Teresa, and Billy, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven!" How many people do you think are just filled with hope? What about Billy, Teresa, and the Pope? They just found out that their righteousness was not good enough. The whole world has just been told that they are without hope through their own righteousness to enter the kingdom of God.

Now, let's go back and look at the beginning of these verses...

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.

In your estimation, has any of the Law ceased? Sacrifices? Keeping the Sabbath? Circumcision? Jesus said that none of it would cease until ALL is accomplished. Has Jesus fulfilled the Law? Let's see what Paul says after the cross...

Eph 2:13-16

But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

Romans 8:3-4

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

2 Cor 3:7-16

But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones (Ten Commandments), came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how shall the ministry of the Spirit (The Gospel) fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation (Ten Commandments) has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness (The Gospel) abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory on account of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Having therefore such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not as Moses, who used to put a veil over his face that the sons of Israel might not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant (The Law, including the 10 Commandments) the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Rom 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

Gal 3:21-26

For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Accrding to Paul, because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, we are no longer under the Law.

Jesus was born "under the Law"...

Gal 4:4-5

But when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Jesus commands before the cross were designed by God to lead us to Christ! He came to declare all men unrighteous through the Law, so that all men would turn to Him, and would receive the righteousness of God by faith!

Jesus revealed man's hearts through the Law...

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. "And if your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. "And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Have you ever had any altar calls at your church to pluck out eyes, or cut off hands? Was Jesus kidding? Not under the Law He wasn't!

Gal 3:22

But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

If you are in Christ, you have fulfilled the Law! You are no longer walking according to the flesh (works of righteousness through the Law), but you are now walking by the Spirit (by faith in the finished work of Christ !!!)

Amen!! Free at last.

The old law is gone for believers; that which was given by angels, under which we were subjected, is passed away. For the law only reveals sin, and genders to bondage.

Stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free.

Good thing I don't have to keep the Commandments anymore... what with coming events and all... or so I am told by every armchair warrior on the forum.

No Calvinist, you have to keep the Gospel, by the Spirit; the law now written on fleshly tables, and not stone which no man kept.

Rom 8.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

Heb 7.12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The ritualist parts of the Mosaic law are gone, true, but the moral parts of the Mosaic law stay. Or are we to think that what God thinks is right or wrong changes?

spl_cadet:
The ritualist parts of the Mosaic law are gone, true, but the moral parts of the Mosaic law stay.

Prove it! I have just proved otherwise.

Spl, all the Mosaic law has gone. The Mosaic law was part of the covenant with Israel, and that has gone too. There are no bits hived off. The law was given to rule a sinful people. Now we have direct rule from heaven, and by a law greater than the Mosaic.

That does not mean that there is a different law, and that what was right is now wrong. And as far as nonJews are concerned, who had a shadow of the law in their conscience, which they rejected, they were never under the Mosaic law, so why should they be so now?

The Mosaic law served as containment, until Christ came, and then the Spirit. It still points to the righteous expectations of God, but that which is in the Gospel does even more so.

Sozo and I disagree on some of the outworkings of this doctrine, but we agree here. We are healed, so why keep taking the tablets?

Besides, do you keep the 4th commandment? it seems to be something very lacking in American society that they don't observe the Lord's Day or 7th day, and seem quite happy to watch TV, go to a game or the mall, etc

Solly:
Besides, do you keep the 4th commandment? it seems to be something very lacking in American society that they don't observe the Lord's Day or 7th day, and seem quite happy to watch TV, go to a game or the mall, etc

Or type on the computer at a selected website

spl_cadet:
The ritualist parts of the Mosaic law are gone, true, but the moral parts of the Mosaic law stay. Or are we to think that what God thinks is right or wrong changes?

Sorry, the law is a totality. The "cultic", "moral" and "civil" law distinction is complete hogwash. As you read Leviticus, Numbers... the "different" types are interspered in the same verses and passages. This distinction was a later development of the Church based on a faulty understanding of teh Law of Moses.

I wouldn't say the Law has been removed.. I would say it has been altered. Even the 10 commandments haven't been abolished, they have been summerized in Christs new commendments:

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

So although I agree..

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

It does not invalidate the law.. Love is the fullfilling of the Law..

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

As I said, the law is changed, not gone.. but changed in such a way that one cannot be made righteous by it as it stood. Christ has modified the law to be taken through the understand of the new law: "Love thy neighbor as thy love thyself."

At least.. that's JMHO :)

Love and Peace

JCA

I see your point JCA (And is that the PLPP or the PPLP?), but it is not clear enough on the issue.

It is true that the law says "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God" But it is first of all a matter of to whom that is said. It is to Israel: Deut 6.4. There is no command here to all men, nor is there the promise of benefits to those who do, and punishment to those who don't outside of Israel. The love God commands here is covenant love. You can't take this apart from it's place in the covenent with Israel.

The Gentiles were never under that law, esp not as a covenant.
Yes there is a law written in our hearts, but it is a pale shadow of this revelation from God to Israel, and requires more in the way of our reverence and obedience to God (thus making us without excuse).
Equally, there is a similarity between the fuller revelation in the Gospel with that in the covenant law to Israel, but it is on different terms entirely. Israel's law was "Do this and live", the Christian's is "Live and do this".

They must be distinguished and kept apart, because as Paul showed to the Galatians, to take part of the law is to take it all, and that includes the curses for failure to follow it. Christians are called to walk in the Spirit, with the law written on their heart, free from the condemning covenant, as Paul sums up in Galatians, where they were seeking to take on board the law: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature/creation. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy. Gal 6.15,16

The law knew nothing of mercy. Only God shows mercy. For the sins of murder and adultery David should have died under the law, but Nathan told him, God hath put away thy sin, for grace is greater than the Law. See Ps 32

Finally, What is not of faith is sin; and "The law is not of faith" Gal 3.12

So, as far as the commandment to love God is concerned, unless that proceeds from a changed nature, and the shedding forth of the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, then a million commandments won't help. "I will put my law in their inward parts and write it on their hearts" Jer 31. What law? Thou shalt love, etc. It becomes a willing obedience (Ps 110.3), not a legal demand, as the law was: Do this and live.

regards

Great post Solly!

My only difference here would be about the "law" that is written on our hearts. I see it as... "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death".
I really believe that this law was God's greatest intention- the mystery, if you will, "Christ in you"!

Sozo, I think we are probably talking the same thing, though worded differently. Ultimately, as Ps 110.3 shows, it comes back to Christ. As we are united to him. Without him we can do nothing, hence we are told to abide in him. You and I would disagree (and have disagreed) on the experiential outworkings of that, but the theory is the same.

The law in the conscience and the Mosaic law are partial revelations, and more importantly, they leave us in our own strength. Writing the law on our hearts means that God enables us to do these things - it is not just a matter of having the knowledge of these things, but having the desire and will to do them; that we might be comformed to the image of Christ, in righteousness, holiness, knowledge, and truth.

It's quite a calling, and one we sadly fail to live up to on so many occasions. But we, as a new creation, are designed to fly not crawl, however many times we fail in doing so. Imagine a young eagle giving up and taking to the footpaths!!

In relation to this, did not Paul say "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

and...

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual [thoughts] with spiritual [words]. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct Him? But we have the mind of (concerning) Christ."

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect."

I believe that our obligation to "living the Christian life" is wrapped up in knowing who Jesus is, and what He has done for, and in us! Without this truth, we are not truly free, and we find ourselves back to serving the law of sin & death.

Yes, God has given us a new, better Covenant. God's Word tells us:

But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.

There are times when an ocean of error is so vast and the waves so high that one dare not venture out on it. The contributions to this thread are like that. I'm not even going to get involved in this one.... It's torture just reading it!