The USA government may call it desertion, but I’d call it following Jesus Christ. http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w41.html

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'Base denial' may or may not be an intentional pun.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/engelhard...lhardt352.html

The assertion that Iraq is an "illegal war" begs the question.

Originally posted by technomage

The assertion that Iraq is an "illegal war" begs the question.

How does it beg the question?

Nice total warp of what the military does, let us take a look at it:

Only after Stephen passed through the agency's training program did he discover that the security firm was actually a front for a criminal syndicate. Rather than protecting lives and property, he would be required to take part in armed robberies and expected to kill, when necessary, to ensure the success of the "mission."

Know how many 'armed robberies' I've done? ZERO!!!!

Know how many things we've stolen? NONE, in fact it is AGAINST the law and against the Law of Armed Conflict to take things without permission from civilians and if it's not necessary, you do not take it, period.

How many people have I killed? None, shoot I teach a course though the Military Training Network that is designed to save lives (CPR) and in fact CPR and basic first aid are requirements for all airmen to learn. Also, according to LOAC, you are to treat wounded enemies just like you would your own by providing medical care as circumstances allow.

That's for another great article by Lew Rockwell that lies about the military and spreads mistruth rather than truth. Come back when you actually understand what the military is all about, ok?

Originally posted by Philosophickus Rex

How does it beg the question?

How is the war illegal?

It is an unproven assertion that the author (Lew Rockwell) uses to support his thesis.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

How is the war illegal?

Nothing to do with it....

Originally posted by technomage

It is an unproven assertion that the author (Lew Rockwell) uses to support his thesis.

An unproven assertion is not begging the question.

It must also be noted that desertion is not the "Christian" way to handle an illegal order, or even an illegal series of orders. Desertion does involve avoiding the illegal orders, but also involves breaking a commitment. The proper way to handle this would be, if ordered to commit murder, to refuse to lift one's weapon, and accept whatever punishment resulted, whether that punishment were stockade, courts martial, or summary execution.

Sound unfair? Jesus told Christians to submit to authority, not run away and hide.

Originally posted by Philosophickus Rex

An unproven assertion is not begging the question.

Excuse me, the actual queston-begging is the assertion that deserting is "following JesusChrist," when that assertion is based (in part) on the assumed illegality of the war.

Originally posted by Philosophickus Rex

Nothing to do with it....

Why not? It's a pretty bold assertion. If you are ever in Washington DC, take a trip to the offices of congress, (you can go into them and talk to your congress man if you want as long as you submit to a quick search at the door). Anyway, what you see throughout the halls is congressmen who put around things such as 'support the troops' in fact I remember walking by one office that a representative from Texas had a sign in front of his office that said 'hero's of district such and such' and right in the front door, is a list of all those killed during this war. The question I like to ask is this... if this war is so illegal, why do so many members of congress continue to give their support?

Originally posted by technomage

Excuse me, the actual queston-begging is the assertion that deserting is "following JesusChrist," when that assertion is based (in part) on the assumed illegality of the war.

Ok, that's a little different.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Why not? It's a pretty bold assertion. If you are ever in Washington DC, take a trip to the offices of congress, (you can go into them and talk to your congress man if you want as long as you submit to a quick search at the door). Anyway, what you see throughout the halls is congressmen who put around things such as 'support the troops' in fact I remember walking by one office that a representative from Texas had a sign in front of his office that said 'hero's of district such and such' and right in the front door, is a list of all those killed during this war. The question I like to ask is this... if this war is so illegal, why do so many members of congress continue to give their support?

I'd probably not use congressman in support of my point. They are driven by various motives to send our servicemen around the world.

But I'll concede that a person who has signed a contract with the military out of his own free will is obligated to fulfill the agreed upon conditions of that contract. I'd just suggest not signing up for the military in the first place.

Originally posted by Philosophickus Rex

I'd probably not use congressman in support of my point. They are driven by various motives to send our servicemen around the world.

Congress are the ones that have the power to support a war. What I find interesting is that congressmen are not the ones saying the war is illegal. Only those who are looking for reasons not to support it call it illegal. If the war was illegal... why isn't congress the ones saying it is and why do they continue to give their support and how can it be illegal when those who are given the power to declare war are the ones whom support it?

But I'll concede that a person who has signed a contract with the military out of his own free will is obligated to fulfill the agreed upon conditions of that contract. I'd just suggest not signing up for the military in the first place.

If a person doesn't want to join, I'd agree... don't sign. But making assertions that the military is taught to steal and murder is absurd. LOAC is very specific that you don't shoot unless shot at or threatened first and you don't take things from civilians unless you ask or it's absolutely necessary. In fact, LOAC says that you are suppose to give them some kind of IOU if you do. So these assertions this article makes are absurd.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

Congress are the ones that have the power to support a war. What I find interesting is that congressmen are not the ones saying the war is illegal. Only those who are looking for reasons not to support it call it illegal. If the war was illegal... why isn't congress the ones saying it is and why do they continue to give their support and how can it be illegal when those who are given the power to declare war are the ones whom support it?

Well, I think the whole 'congress declaring war' thing is a part of the past. At least, the method and brand of war that we find ourselves fighting all over the world doesn't really fit well with a declaration from congress. In other words, it's not so much that I find it illegal as I find it immoral.

If a person doesn't want to join, I'd agree... don't sign. But making assertions that the military is taught to steal and murder is absurd.

That's correct. They certainly aren't taught to steal or murder.

LOAC is very specific that you don't shoot unless shot at or threatened first and you don't take things from civilians unless you ask or it's absolutely necessary. In fact, LOAC says that you are suppose to give them some kind of IOU if you do. So these assertions this article makes are absurd.

Well, what is supposed to happen and what does happen are two different things. And we kill a lot of people that have never fired a weapon before, so I don't know that rules applies very well anymore.

Originally posted by Philosophickus Rex

Well, I think the whole 'congress declaring war' thing is a part of the past. At least, the method and brand of war that we find ourselves fighting all over the world doesn't really fit well with a declaration from congress. In other words, it's not so much that I find it illegal as I find it immoral.

And what is immoral about it?

That's correct. They certainly aren't taught to steal or murder.

Yep, but that is what the article asserts.

Well, what is supposed to happen and what does happen are two different things. And we kill a lot of people that have never fired a weapon before, so I don't know that rules applies very well anymore.

You're right, what happens and what is suppose to happen is two different things, get caught violating LOAC and you're going to jail for a long time... And that is a very unfortunate thing of war, unless people can come up with better ways to just take out who is fighting and leave those alone who are not, it's going to happen. I don't find those who complain about it the most offering up any ideas how to do it better.

Originally posted by lilpixieofterror

And what is immoral about it?

They take the property (my money) which was taken from me without my consent and use it fight wars that I don't approve of.

You're right, what happens and what is suppose to happen is two different things, get caught violating LOAC and you're going to jail for a long time... And that is a very unfortunate thing of war, unless people can come up with better ways to just take out who is fighting and leave those alone who are not, it's going to happen. I don't find those who complain about it the most offering up any ideas how to do it better.

Well, I think the best thing for us to do would be to keep our troops at home. I can think of reasonable situations for sending the military overseas, but I haven't come across one for a long time.