I starteded the other thread to talk about how God is using His sons and daughters in these last days to act in the anointed power of the Holy Spirit. That thread was taken way off track. I want this thread to stay on topic.

The issue going forward will be understanding our place in Christ, seated with him at God's right hand.

God put an end to the Old Covenant religious system by which religious leaders held the people under their control. But the Man, Jesus, the son of God, freed us from satan's dominion, and from the control of religious zealots who wanted to maintain their 'place' of controlling the people.

God had foretold the ending of this religious system through the coming of the Cornerstone, the Messiah. With freedom from religious thinking we can understand the INCARNATION of Jesus.

Here is the heart of a post that is so much in error, but it illustrates religious thinking that blinds Christians from becoming freed into their freedom in Christ:

They may believe Jesus died and rose for their sins, but in that context it can have a totally different meaning. Instead of growing into all spiritual doctrine, these people will reject the true things of God when taught. Saying that "Jesus died and rose for my sins" is simply not enough. If a man died and rose, then I am not saved.

Some pay lip-service to the fact that Jesus was 100% Man. Then push it off into the background and insist that the TRUTH that saves is that Jesus is 100% God.
The glaring Truth that religious elites wish to ignore, because it crimps their minds to consider it, and causes them to fear it, is this simple TRUTH:

That right now seated at the right hand of God in heaven is a risen, righteous and glorified MAN, and we who believe it are seated right there with him on the throne next to his Father and our Father. The ramifications of this are so wonderful and so awesome, we have to consider the full weight of it.

16. Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.
17. "And I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the level;
Then hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the secret place.
18. "And your covenant with death shall be canceled,
And your pact with Sheol shall not stand;
When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.
19. "As often as it passes through, it will seize you.
For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night.
And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."
20. The bed is too short on which to stretch out,
And the blanket is too small to wrap oneself in.

With this truth, religion's rule over God's children through intimidation and self-righteous condemnation and control is destroyed.

All because a risen, righteous and glorified MAN is sitting at the right hand of God on His throne, and we who believe it are seated there with the Man, Jesus, the son of God.

The revelation of Jesus' Manhood needs to be understood. Then we can make use of who we are in him, and the place he has raised us to.

Define "religion," "religious thinking," and "religious zealots." These seem to be labels you would apply arbitrarily against anyone who disagreed with you, otherwise.

Also, what does it mean to "believe?" Is this only a mere acknowledgement that something is reality, or a will and devotion to what is believed?

please also define "justice" as understood by its original speaker. Clarifying "man" might be a good idea too.

Christians ought to loudly affirm that Jesus is 100% God, and that Jesus is 100% man. Denial or neglect of either will tend toward error in faith and practice.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

The glaring Truth that religious elites wish to ignore, because it crimps their minds to consider it, and causes them to fear it, is this simple TRUTH:

Ty,
Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be "the religious elite"?
Just askin'
CP

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty,
Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be "the religious elite"?
Just askin'
CP

Yeah, but you've got to love the phrase "crimps their minds," don't you?

Originally posted by Michelle

Yeah, but you've got to love the phrase "crimps their minds," don't you?

I really had to hold back, Michelle, but yeah - I really noticed THAT

Originally posted by JeromeD

Define "religion," "religious thinking," and "religious zealots." These seem to be labels you would apply arbitrarily against anyone who disagreed with you, otherwise.

Religion is the practice of keeping rules to honor or worship God, (or gods). It is the repititious performance of rituals to please God to have His favor, or to appease Him from disfavor.

Religious thinking is to strictly keep laws, rules or traditions and doctrines as a means of serving and honoring God. It is to believe that performance of those things is what God wants from us. It is, generally, to think that doing those things brings us into, or keeps us in right relationship with God.

Religious zealots believe it is necessary to cause and convince others to hold to their same practices or rituals or laws. In this way they become leaders and guides for others. They want to impose a conformity of belief and practice.

Originally posted by JeromeD

Also, what does it mean to "believe?" Is this only a mere acknowledgement that something is reality, or a will and devotion to what is believed?

To believe means to trust in, rely upon, and faithfully follow (as a devotion) a thing or person as true and/or right.


These are off the top of my head definitions and are not necessarily complete or exhaustive.

Grace and peace to all who call upon the Lord from a pure heart,
Ty

Originally posted by Jin-Roh

please also define "justice" as understood by its original speaker. Clarifying "man" might be a good idea too.

Justice, as used by God, through Isaiah in chapter 28 is the verticle relationship of peace and love through Jesus the Cornerstone that exists because our sins which separated us from God have been taken away, nailed to the cross, thus we are without guilt and condemnation before God.

Man means persons composed of spirit and soul and body, originally created in God's image and intended to be conformed to His likeness.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty,
Have you ever considered the possibility that you might be "the religious elite"?
Just askin'
CP

I try to down-play my role.
Just sayin.'

Ty

Originally posted by Michelle

Yeah, but you've got to love the phrase "crimps their minds," don't you?

Its good, ain't it? But I don't claim it as original to me. Maybe I heard it sometime ago.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I starteded the other thread to talk about how God is using His sons and daughters in these last days to act in the anointed power of the Holy Spirit. That thread was taken way off track. I want this thread to stay on topic.

The issue going forward will be understanding our place in Christ, seated with him at God's right hand.

God put an end to the Old Covenant religious system by which religious leaders held the people under their control. But the Man, Jesus, the son of God, freed us from satan's dominion, and from the control of religious zealots who wanted to maintain their 'place' of controlling the people.

God had foretold the ending of this religious system through the coming of the Cornerstone, the Messiah. With freedom from religious thinking we can understand the INCARNATION of Jesus.

Here is the heart of a post that is so much in error, but it illustrates religious thinking that blinds Christians from becoming freed into their freedom in Christ:

They may believe Jesus died and rose for their sins, but in that context it can have a totally different meaning. Instead of growing into all spiritual doctrine, these people will reject the true things of God when taught. Saying that "Jesus died and rose for my sins" is simply not enough. If a man died and rose, then I am not saved.

Some pay lip-service to the fact that Jesus was 100% Man. Then push it off into the background and insist that the TRUTH that saves is that Jesus is 100% God.
The glaring Truth that religious elites wish to ignore, because it crimps their minds to consider it, and causes them to fear it, is this simple TRUTH:

That right now seated at the right hand of God in heaven is a risen, righteous and glorified MAN, and we who believe it are seated right there with him on the throne next to his Father and our Father. The ramifications of this are so wonderful and so awesome, we have to consider the full weight of it.

16. Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.
17. "And I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the level;
Then hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the secret place.
18. "And your covenant with death shall be canceled,
And your pact with Sheol shall not stand;
When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.
19. "As often as it passes through, it will seize you.
For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night.
And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."
20. The bed is too short on which to stretch out,
And the blanket is too small to wrap oneself in.

With this truth, religion's rule over God's children through intimidation and self-righteous condemnation and control is destroyed.

All because a risen, righteous and glorified MAN is sitting at the right hand of God on His throne, and we who believe it are seated there with the Man, Jesus, the son of God.

The revelation of Jesus' Manhood needs to be understood. Then we can make use of who we are in him, and the place he has raised us to.

The title and aim of the thread is to develope what it means for now and the future to "crush satan's head" because we in Christ are His body. We are men, who compose the body of which Christ Jesus, the risen, righteous and glorified Man, is the Head.
The premise from the New Testament, is from the Apostle Paul, who wrote:
And the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. (Romans 16:20)

Paul was alluding to Genesis 3:15 which says,
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel."

God was prophesying directly to Satan, saying there would come a man, the seed of a woman, who would 'bruise' Satan's head, a severe injury, though Satan would cause a minor injury to the heel of the One who bruised him.
Jesus set the stage for this 'crushing' of Satan's head, and began the process. Jesus initiated this happening when he triumphed over Satan, rising from the dead, and in so doing he stripped Satan of his authority to accuse, injure and cause mankind to fear resulting in death. Through this fear, Satan had been able to rule over men, except those men and women who believed God, and because of their belief were protected and blessed by God. "Blessed" means empowered to succeed over the efforts of Satan and the curse of sin.

What this means for today is awesome and wonderful to understand. Jesus began the process of total victory over Satan, including ultimately his capture and eternal punishment in Hell. The awesome thing to know is that shortly after Jesus stripped Satan of the power to injure mankind, He departed to heaven where he waits at God's right hand for all his enemies to be made His footstool. Jesus told His followers, called disciples, to go forth in Jesus' name to make more disciples. He further empowered them with His Spirit to heal, and set men free from control and injury and ultimate damnation.

This begins with the disciples continuing to preach the good news, of the kingdom from heaven, that men enter when they enter into him by faith and obedience to Jesus' saving sacrifice, which paid the penalty of judgment that was payable upon all of mankind because of their sin. Men who are redeemed from their just penalty, because Jesus paid their ransom, are able to be a member of Jesus' kingdom, which is contained in the hearts of his followers. They are members of a community called the "Church."

Members of his Church are in God's kingdom, and possess Jesus' authority to rule in the earth. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ, the body of which he is the Head. This is the reason for the importance of Jesus being born and living as a man. It enables men and women in his body to use the power that Jesus used. The power of the Holy Spirit, defeats Christ's enemies, Satan, sin, sickness, poverty and all the other negative consequences of sin. This power to overcome all enemies also is a return to the original authority that God blessed Adam with, in Genesis 1:28

This empowerment to conquer Satan's kingdom is to eventually (and believers believe soon), complete the process of crushing Satan's head. This victorious outcome is what Paul referred to in Romans 16:20. He had an expectation that this triumph was to be achieved in the near future to him in the first century following Jesus' death, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand. Now, nearly 2000 years from Jesus' initial victory, the total subjugation of Satan is close at hand.

Are there any questions? Let's discuss these things. You are invited to post helpful comments and questions that will help us all make progress in getting God's will done in the earth, through His kingdom in us.

Grace and peace to all who call upon the name of the Lord out of a pure heart,
Ty

Ty,
Since you seem to be in "teaching" mode, would you try this one?
What role did Christ's deity play in the atonement?

Originally posted by TyRockwell

Religion is the practice of keeping rules to honor or worship God, (or gods). It is the repititious performance of rituals to please God to have His favor, or to appease Him from disfavor.

Religious thinking is to strictly keep laws, rules or traditions and doctrines as a means of serving and honoring God. It is to believe that performance of those things is what God wants from us. It is, generally, to think that doing those things brings us into, or keeps us in right relationship with God.

Religious zealots believe it is necessary to cause and convince others to hold to their same practices or rituals or laws. In this way they become leaders and guides for others. They want to impose a conformity of belief and practice.

Wow. The irony is so thick here I think even my fine set of Cutco knives would have a problem sawing through it.!

Justice, as used by God, through Isaiah in chapter 28 is the verticle relationship of peace and love through Jesus the Cornerstone that exists because our sins which separated us from God have been taken away, nailed to the cross, thus we are without guilt and condemnation before God.y

Really? I thought God what criticizing some people for drinking, and possibly being allied with Assyria or something. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure why God was upset at his hearers in that passage. Sure sounds like "ima gonna smite you" kinda justice though.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty,
Since you seem to be in "teaching" mode, would you try this one?
What role did Christ's deity play in the atonement?

Actually, you can't separate Christ's deity from his humanity. He is one person, not two. He is all God and all man. But in his incarnation he lived and acted as an anointed man, such as a prophet. He did nothing on his own, but he only did what he saw his Father doing. He only said what he heard his Father saying.

The idea that you have to say his deity had to play as much a role as his humanity is to try to distinguish between both aspects of his nature. It is also a 'fodder' question used to open unnecessary, unfruitful debate, and take my threads off topic.

Been there, done that. The bumper sticker is peeling.

"As he is, so are we in this world," John wrote. That he is a man plays into or relationship with him in that his Father is our Father is our God.

Please let us not get off the the ramifications inherent in these points I have made into the side-track we had before.

BTW, I found an instance where the power of God was going to cause men to stumble over backwards.
Isaiah 28:13
13. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,"
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared, and taken captive.

Thank you for your concern, brother,
Ty

Originally posted by Jin-Roh

Wow. The irony is so thick here I think even my fine set of Cutco knives would have a problem sawing through it.!



Really? I thought God what criticizing some people for drinking, and possibly being allied with Assyria or something. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure why God was upset at his hearers in that passage. Sure sounds like "ima gonna smite you" kinda justice though.

God was warning of their impending capture by Babylon and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 586 BC by Nebuchadnezzar, of Babylon.

Isreal's elite, the religious leaders were in full apostacy, thinking they could practice the false religions of the pagan nations along with their worship of God. The scene parallels the one of the time of Jesus when again the Jews and the religious establishment were to be in apostacy and rebellion again in rejecting Jesus, the Messiah. In both cases, the religious leaders blindly maintained their claims to righteousness, and were wrong in thinking they could do so and not be destroyed.