Originally posted by TyRockwell

Actually, you can't separate Christ's deity from his humanity. He is one person, not two.

or three?

The idea that you have to say his deity had to play as much a role as his humanity is to try to distinguish between both aspects of his nature.

You are conclusion jumping AGAIN, Ty... I never said such a thing. I asked.

It is also a 'fodder' question used to open unnecessary, unfruitful debate, and take my threads off topic.

You should start your own thread and limit participants to "Ty".

BTW, I found an instance where the power of God was going to cause men to stumble over backwards.
Isaiah 28:13
13. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,"
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared, and taken captive.

Thank you for your concern, brother,

brother? do i detect a facetious note?

OH... and your scripture... does NOT show people "falling back" in worship... the chapter starts off with ... Ah, the proud garland of the drunkards of Ephraim... and it doesn't sound like God is very happy with them!

The OP of the thread to which you refer already dealt with the fact that "men fall backward" in judgment, not in "worship". Thanks for making my case.

Do you REALLY want to "stumble backward, be broken, snared, and taken captive", Ty? I'm thinking not.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

or three?

You are conclusion jumping AGAIN, Ty... I never said such a thing. I asked.

You should start your own thread and limit participants to "Ty".





brother? do i detect a facetious note?

OH... and your scripture... does NOT show people "falling back" in worship... the chapter starts off with ... Ah, the proud garland of the drunkards of Ephraim... and it doesn't sound like God is very happy with them!

The OP of the thread to which you refer already dealt with the fact that "men fall backward" in judgment, not in "worship". Thanks for making my case.

Do you REALLY want to "stumble backward, be broken, snared, and taken captive", Ty? I'm thinking not.

Chill, CP,
The passage has to do with God's judgment to come upon the religious apostates. In that context, His Spirit will cause people with religious spirits to fall over backwards. It happens in ministry. It is not limited to worship. Sometimes, getting knocked down by the Lord will cause you to rise with a new attitude.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

Chill, CP,
The passage has to do with God's judgment to come upon the religious apostates. In that context, His Spirit will cause people with religious spirits to fall over backwards. It happens in ministry. It is not limited to worship. Sometimes, getting knocked down by the Lord will cause you to rise with a new attitude.

HOGWASH

"people with religious spirits".. where do you get THAT? You're so cute when you screw up an argument, then try to make it sound like you were talking about something else.

It happens in ministry? Where? When?

Yes, it is EXACTLY about judgment, not God "blessing" or ANYTHING to do with the original topic of "slain in the Spirit".

Can't chill, Ty.. it's 104 degrees today!

Originally posted by TyRockwell

Originally posted by someone lacking

If a man died and rose, then I am not saved.

The man that said this is not Christ....

...if he was... we would have forgotten everything!

We have not forgotten everything!

Originally posted by Country Preacher

HOGWASH

"people with religious spirits".. where do you get THAT?

Isaiah 28. I've pointed that out before, and since you follow my threads I thought you would have read it. Nothing 'hogwash' about it.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You're so cute when you screw up an argument, then try to make it sound like you were talking about something else.

It is clear YOU don't know what I'm talking about. Howevrer I DO.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

It happens in ministry? Where? When?

Sometimes a Christian may have a religious attitude and not know it. Then if they are touched while being prayed for, he or she may be knocked down while the Holy Spirit deals with their heart attitude, though they may have sought prayer for a different reason.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Yes, it is EXACTLY about judgment, not God "blessing" or ANYTHING to do with the original topic of "slain in the Spirit".

A judgment can lead to a blessing if the people repent!

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Can't chill, Ty.. it's 104 degrees today!

May the Lord bless you, and cool your collar.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

16. Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone,
A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed.
He who believes in it will not be disturbed.
17. "And I will make justice the measuring line,
And righteousness the level;
Then hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the secret place.
18. "And your covenant with death shall be canceled,
And your pact with Sheol shall not stand;
When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.
19. "As often as it passes through, it will seize you.
For morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or night.
And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."
20. The bed is too short on which to stretch out,
And the blanket is too small to wrap oneself in.

With this truth, religion's rule over God's children through intimidation and self-righteous condemnation and control is destroyed.

The power of this is incredible, I commend and glorify the work of the Father in you by this!

But since you are at leisure to consider, consider this...

...that a man... so desiring...

...can by this same stone...

...utterly destroy himself.

...and have no rest...

...and no place with God

...or anyone with God...

...such that he is as nothing!

WHAT THEN do you treasure?

The choice is yours!

Originally posted by TyRockwell

Isaiah 28. I've pointed that out before, and since you follow my threads I thought you would have read it. Nothing 'hogwash' about it.

Ty, you can't just patch together a bunch of scriptures to back up a bogus point.

It is clear YOU don't know what I'm talking about. Howevrer I DO.

yeah

Sometimes a Christian may have a religious attitude and not know it. Then if they are touched while being prayed for, he or she may be knocked down while the Holy Spirit deals with their heart attitude, though they may have sought prayer for a different reason.

Has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Nobody "touched" those people who fell back, OR the ones who "fall in worship" in the Bible.

A judgment can lead to a blessing if the people repent!

Well, DUH!!!! But that's not what this was all about. you just twist and twist to fit your argument.

May the Lord bless you, and cool your collar.

He blesses me all the time, Ty - hot or cold (but not lukewarm)

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty, you can't just patch together a bunch of scriptures to back up a bogus point.

The scriptures do back up my point, which is NOT bogus.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

yeah

Has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Nobody "touched" those people who fell back, OR the ones who "fall in worship" in the Bible.

The Holy Spirit does touch, and sometimes through a minister. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY represented in the Bible. God is not stagnant, nor is He stuck with only one way to do things. He didn't part the Jordan River in the same way He parted the Red Sea.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Well, DUH!!!! But that's not what this was all about. you just twist and twist to fit your argument.

He blesses me all the time, Ty - hot or cold (but not lukewarm)

He who is lukewarm is he who is stuck in the old ways and doesn't want or see what God is doing in These Days.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

The scriptures do back up my point,

which is NOT bogus.

The Holy Spirit does touch, and sometimes through a minister.

Of course He does!

It doesn't have to be EXACTLY represented in the Bible.

Nope

God is not stagnant, nor is He stuck with only one way to do things.

Never said he was, or is.

He didn't part the Jordan River in the same way He parted the Red Sea.

Both of those are actually in the Bible! how bout that! and no twisting! I'm impressed!

He who is lukewarm is he who is stuck in the old ways and doesn't want or see what God is doing in These Days.

That's in the book of Hesitations, right?
Whatever you say, Ty!

Ty, can you please list some of the miracles that you've performed? I didn't see any described in the previous thread.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

But the Man, Jesus, the son of God, freed us from satan's dominion, and from the control of religious zealots who wanted to maintain their 'place' of controlling the people.

Why did you emphasize Christ the MAN if you say you can't divide Christ up? If Christ is truly both God and Man, and you have shown what the Human part has done, what has the Divine part of Jesus played? Surely both played a part? No?

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Why did you emphasize Christ the MAN if you say you can't divide Christ up? If Christ is truly both God and Man, and you have shown what the Human part has done, what has the Divine part of Jesus played? Surely both played a part? No?

I emphasize Christ's manhood because that is OUR connection to him. He, is the Christ, meaning the Anointed One, an anointed man.

We are in him if we are Christians. He is the Head, in His body and mind, as we are his Body, in the flesh. His human Headship is of the same earthly substance as our bodies. We, humans in him, are members together composing the new man, the new Creation in Christ.

His Deity is not diminished by his manhod, rather it is our connection to him by which we are seated with him on his throne at the right hand of our (his and our) Father. His deity makes us, in him, sons of God.

2nd Peter 1:3-4
3. seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
4. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Heh, I'm starting to get the idea that you're ignoring me.

Originally posted by Obsidian

Ty, can you please list some of the miracles that you've performed? I didn't see any described in the previous thread.

First, I want it clearly understood that God, by His Spirit does the miracles. The thread title should be understood to mean that God's power does the miracles. People of faith are able to use His power, loose it or apply it, but all glory, honor and praise goes to Him.

I don't want to boast, but yes, the Lord has done miraculous things that I was priviledged, that He did, through me.

With my pastor at the time and his wife, we went to a woman in her home to pray for her. The woman's husband had called for prayer. She was sick and aggitated, going through withdrawals from drug abuse. She wanted to stop, but was being driven by a demonic spirit, and was threatening to leave the house walking to find drugs.

A demon manifested while we prayed for her, laying our hands on her head and back and shoulders. The demon spoke in a man's deep, angry and loud voice saying, "She doesn't want to be free!" We rebuked it, and commanded it to be silent and come out. She became quiet but the spirit was causing her to struggle for a few seconds, until it screamed again, through her voice and came out and she went limp. She had already fallen to the floor, when we first began to pray. She fell asleep and woke up the next morning without the craving for drugs.

Another time, I was having a Bible study at my house. There were about 15 to 18 people there. A woman brought a man she had recently met to the Bible study, but it was clear he was very uncomfortable and aggitated. Suddenly, he stood up and said, "Come on, let's go" to her. He had to walk by me to get to the door. He stopped and said, "Doesn't it burn your hand when you place it on the Bible?" I said, "no," and he replied, "My name is 'Dark Angel' and, ...

I stopped him right then, saying, "I rebuke you, in the name of Jesus!" It was as if he was thrown backward, but no one had touched him. He hit the wall about 8 feet behind him, and slid down it to the floor. He was within five feet of the door and scrambled on hands and knees to the door, opened it and continue on all fours out the door, and then stood up to walk. His girlfriend said, "Let him go," so he left, staggering like a drunk. (He wasn't drunk when he had come in.) He drove off like a drunk driver, almost getting into the ditch, but accelerated, on down the road, squealing his tires.

I have prayed for other people, laying hands on their foreheads or shoulders, and they reported back to me within a few days that they were healed, and they knew it was because of the prayer.

Once, a man from the local Southern Baptist Church, the one I grew up in, but no longer attended, who had heard of some miraculous healings, of cancer, because of my prayer, came to me. He had prostate cancer and was undergoing radiation treatment, which was making him nauseated, and his hair was falling out.

That church and that denomonation are famously cessationist. He asked me what I would do. I paused for about 3 seconds, and had a word of wisdom come to me. I said, "Do what it says in James, chapter 5. Call for the elders of the church and have them anoint you with oil in the name of the Lord, and pray the prayer of faith.

I knew that church had never done that in all the 24 years I had gone there. He didn't say he would, but went away thinking. He called me in less than a week, and told me he had done what James 5 said, and he felt in his body that he was healed. He told his doctor, who had tests done and confirmed to him that there was no sign of cancer in him anymore. Praise God!

When hurricane Rita was coming, some friends invited me, and my wife, to go with them to where they were evacuating. My wife and I didn't fear the storm, but we decided to go with them to get to spend time with them. Joyce and I marched around our house before we left, and blessed it and prayed and declared that it would not be damaged.

When we got back we found that several trees had fallen all around the house but none of them hit the house. It was not damaged, at all. We said, "We should have walked around our property line!"

We stayed at home during hurricane Ike, even though it was going to be a more direct hit. At the height of the storm, at 1:30 am, we heard a tornado coming. I stood up and extended my hand in that direction and said, "Peace, be still!" The power went out, but that's all that happened. The next morning we saw where the tornado had torn up the trees coming toward our house, and we saw on the other side where it had shredded through a patch of woods that was even more ripped to pieces than the approach to the house. The tornado had lifted up and skipped over our house.

There are too many other things to remember, divine protections, healings, answers to prayer. There have been times when enemies wanted to hit me, but their arms were frozen in place and they could not.

There were times when enemies tried to set me up to be fired, but God changed the heart of the supervisor, and he didn't. Another time a man who threatened me was himself fired instead, though I had not accused him. Another person died not very long after he threatened me.

There are many other things I could tell about, but these come quickly to mind. I am tired of typing, and I've said enough. I give all the glory to God.

Peace,
Ty

Originally posted by TyRockwell

That church and that denomonation are famously cessationist.

Ty,
Does it make you feel better to denigrate other people?
I'm a Southern Baptist. (the denomination you denounce)
I've been in a number of Southern Baptist Churches.
Maybe I'm only in 'charismatic' Baptist Churches, but I (and others SBC like me) believe in miracles, and I would attest that many of the things you describe are not the least bit foreign to me.
"Famously cessationist"?
WHY, Ty, do you have to blow an otherwise "honest" report, by denigrating others.
Does it make you feel better?
More Spiritual?

This is the kind of thing that makes it so hard for me to take you seriously.

That is an interesting list. I would suggest though, that the exorcisms probably shouldn't count as "miracles," even though they involve the power of God. Regardless of what you call them, most Christian denominations recognize (at least theoretically) the possibility of exorcisms by Christians in today's world -- although some of the more skeptical Christians might claim that demons are less prevalent now on earth or perhaps non-existent.

Most of the rest of the miracles would seem to be responses to prayer. As with the exorcisms, Christians typically acknowledge that God may intervene in the material world as a response to prayer (or in some cases, may have used Middle Knowledge to set up the right chain of material events in advance). I don't think answered prayer disproves cessationism.

I wouldn't necessarilly call a Bible verse springing to mind a "word of wisdom," although it's possible. What exactly a word of wisdom means in the Bible is completely ambiguous, as we don't seem to have any examples except maybe Solomon.

The most impressive one that would come closest to disproving cessationism was stopping the tornado. As you described it, that one didn't even involve prayer. Of course, it could also be a coincidence. Overall, tornados aren't that deadly, and they're pretty unpredictable.