Originally posted by Pilgrim

Who, when and where and under what circumstances?

You wouldn't believe it, if you were told. I've heard testimonies of a word given in a tongue, unknown to the speaker, who thought he was speaking what you call 'glossolalia.' He was told later, "You were speaking in a perfect Mandarin dialect."

These things happen from time to time, but I don't take notes to prove it.

The real question is: Why are you so distant or closed off from these things that you don't know about them?

Originally posted by Michelle

My, isn't this post just brimming with the fruit of the Spirit?

How charismatic do you have to get before you get to be one of the Christians that can blast other Christians? Apparently that's the criteria for being divisive.

My, Michelle, do you think you are being helpful?

I guess you think Jesus didn't have the fruit of the Spirit when he blasted the ignorant priests and Pharisees?

So correct me if I misunderstand, but it sounds like you haven't actually seen this happen yourself. And if it did happen, I wonder what he was actually saying in Chinese.

Originally posted by Obsidian

So correct me if I misunderstand, but it sounds like you haven't actually seen this happen yourself. And if it did happen, I wonder what he was actually saying in Chinese.

I only know English and a little Spanish.

But when I hear a Christian giving a testimony, as in a testimony, I don't immediately suspect he is lying.

And neither should you.

Well from scripture, I think it's actually a little bit debatable whether the tongue-speaker should even fail to understand his own words. Peter and the disciples at Pentacost certainly seemed to know what they were saying. So that alone makes the experience a tad bit suspect.

But on top of that, I was really just asking about your own experiences. All you have to do is check a poorly-guarded email address to hear (probably false) stories about angels and various "miracles" that occurred to somebody. And moreover, if you had personal experience with the situation, you would be able to tell me what the man was saying -- which I would kinda like to know. If the guy thought he was speaking gibberish, then it wouldn't be a lie for him to come in and tell you that someone told him he was speaking Chinese. But that's several layers of hearsay.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

My, Michelle, do you think you are being helpful?

Nope, just making an observation.

I guess you think Jesus didn't have the fruit of the Spirit when he blasted the ignorant priests and Pharisees?

The priests and pharisees were hardly ignorant. Jesus knew what was in their hearts, knew their intentions, and knew their hypocrisy. Do you know Obsidian so well? Do you even know Obsidian?

I'm pretty sure the next thing you're going to say is that you know what he's thinking because you used to believe the same way, before you were convinced otherwise as a young man. Were you browbeaten into belief?

What's it like to speak out of both sides of your mouth? You defined heresy as being divisive within the body of Christ, yet you have no compunction about doing just that. I, for one, am completely confounded by your double standard. How do you do it? Cognitive dissonance makes my head hurt.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I only know English and a little Spanish.

But when I hear a Christian giving a testimony, as in a testimony, I don't immediately suspect he is lying.

And neither should you.

Immediately...nope you shouldn't...however when the claims of a testimony become somewhat extra-ordinary, it's only natural for a little doubt to creep in.
Can God do anything?...yep...
Can people create whoppers to gain attention, fame, money...and claim it was God's work?...yep
Should we as Christians examine those claims to make sure someone isn't of the later ilk?...yep

To blindly accept all extra-ordinary claims without examination is to set oneself to be cast about following the latest "thing"...instead of the truth.

So....now that it's too late to make a long answer short....don't suspect they are lying...but be wise and discerning in what you hear and believe.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I guess you think Jesus didn't have the fruit of the Spirit when he blasted the ignorant priests and Pharisees?

You're not Jesus, Ty

Just sayin

Originally posted by TyRockwell

You wouldn't believe it, if you were told. I've heard testimonies of a word given in a tongue, unknown to the speaker, who thought he was speaking what you call 'glossolalia.' He was told later, "You were speaking in a perfect Mandarin dialect."

These things happen from time to time, but I don't take notes to prove it.

The real question is: Why are you so distant or closed off from these things that you don't know about them?

It's not that I don't know about them, it's just that you've been sufficiently wrong on so many things here that I have good reason to doubt you.

And all you're offering here is hear say now. You were asked if you or your friends had done something. You say yes. Then when pressed you say, "Well not, not really, but I've heard someone else who has..."

You don't have much credibility Ty and, from what I've seen here, you do not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. And, as scripture reminds us, "by their fruits you will know them." The fruits I've seen from you are pride and ignorance. And in the few cases I've seen here the ignorance is willful. So the question is, if you are so close to the will of God how is that you don't seem to know of the fruits of the Spirit? Your whole presentation is about how rich you can get and what miracles you can witness. But Christ said to the people who demanded a sign; who demanded the miracle as a proof for faith, "You faithless people, the only sign you will get is the sign of Jonah..."

My best advice to you? As a pastor and Minister of Word and Sacrament?: stop typing, stop trying to teach and start listening and praying.

Originally posted by Pilgrim

It's not that I don't know about them, it's just that you've been sufficiently wrong on so many things here that I have good reason to doubt you.

And all you're offering here is hear say now. You were asked if you or your friends had done something. You say yes. Then when pressed you say, "Well not, not really, but I've heard someone else who has..."

You don't have much credibility Ty and, from what I've seen here, you do not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. And, as scripture reminds us, "by their fruits you will know them." The fruits I've seen from you are pride and ignorance. And in the few cases I've seen here the ignorance is willful. So the question is, if you are so close to the will of God how is that you don't seem to know of the fruits of the Spirit? Your whole presentation is about how rich you can get and what miracles you can witness. But Christ said to the people who demanded a sign; who demanded the miracle as a proof for faith, "You faithless people, the only sign you will get is the sign of Jonah...

My best advice to you? As a pastor and Minister of Word and Sacrament?: stop typing, stop trying to teach and start listening and praying.

That isn't even close to anything I've said.

Your Spiritual 'Fruit' includes LYING!
Putting words in my mouth is as much as bearing false witness. In the way that you do this, it should be CLEAR to any honest reader that your main tactic is MISREPRESENTATION!

You should be ashamed. Yet you aren't. You can't prove your side with facts, so you MANUFACTURE what you want the facts to be, as if they were what I said.

That is supreme DISHONESTY.

Then you compound your sin with quoting Jesus, as if they applied to this conversation, and by doing so, you try to lend some sort of 'credibility' to your ACCUSATIONS.

Your are a deceiver, dude. You will burn in Hell for what yoi have done here, unless you repent in dust and ashes.

Moderated By: Johnny MacManky

Two breaches of Decorum - Unsubstantiated accusation of Lying and "You will burn in Hell..." As it's only possible to issue a single infraction, it'll get double pointage. ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.*** Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publically complain or whine, please take it to the Psychotherapy Room unless told otherwise.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You're not Jesus, Ty

Just sayin

Didn't say I was. And that which you said dodges the truth of what I said. Be honest.

Originally posted by eudyptes

Immediately...nope you shouldn't...however when the claims of a testimony become somewhat extra-ordinary, it's only natural for a little doubt to creep in.
Can God do anything?...yep...
Can people create whoppers to gain attention, fame, money...and claim it was God's work?...yep
Should we as Christians examine those claims to make sure someone isn't of the later ilk?...yep

To blindly accept all extra-ordinary claims without examination is to set oneself to be cast about following the latest "thing"...instead of the truth.

So....now that it's too late to make a long answer short....don't suspect they are lying...but be wise and discerning in what you hear and believe.

Thank you for your reasoned and measured reply. There isn't enough of that in these forums.

Pilgrim could learn from you.

I'd like to add that the testimonies I'm referring to come from 'this happened to me' reports from people not part of a ministry. They were 'man on the street' eye and ear witnesses.

Then you compound your sin with quoting Jesus, as if they applied to this conversation, and by doing so, you try to lend some sort of 'credibility' to your ACCUSATIONS.

I'm actually with him 100% about the quote from Jesus. Christ said it's a wicked and adulterous generation that seeks signs and wonders, yet miracles seem to be all that so many Christians today even care about.

Originally posted by Obsidian

I'm actually with him 100% about the quote from Jesus. Christ said it's a wicked and adulterous generation that seeks signs and wonders, yet miracles seem to be all that so many Christians today even care about.

You turn the meaning of what Jesus said upside down. He didn't say, 'There will be no real miracles.' He told his people to keep on doing what he did, and greater things. He did what he did from love and compassion for the lost and sick.

He was not going to PERFORM miracles for the unbelievers who were attacking him.

THAT is the context for the quote he lifted totally out of its true context.

Originally posted by Michelle

Nope, just making an observation.





The priests and pharisees were hardly ignorant. Jesus knew what was in their hearts, knew their intentions, and knew their hypocrisy. Do you know Obsidian so well? Do you even know Obsidian?

I'm pretty sure the next thing you're going to say is that you know what he's thinking because you used to believe the same way, before you were convinced otherwise as a young man. Were you browbeaten into belief?

What's it like to speak out of both sides of your mouth? You defined heresy as being divisive within the body of Christ, yet you have no compunction about doing just that. I, for one, am completely confounded by your double standard. How do you do it? Cognitive dissonance makes my head hurt.

If I was being divisive, what you said would maybe apply. It isn't wrong for me to speak up firmly against those who maliciously accuse.

Could you explain to me how it's possible to "prophecy in part," as opposed to prophecying in some other way?