Originally posted by Obsidian

So correct me if I misunderstand, but it sounds like you haven't actually seen this happen yourself. And if it did happen, I wonder what he was actually saying in Chinese.

Like I said, you don't want to know the truth.

I can't reproduce 28 years worth of testimonies, things I saw, and heard with links and addresses.

No, I do want to know the truth. And if I saw a man speak in an unlearned foreign language, that would probably convince me you were right. But from what I hear, Charismatics just spout gibberish and call it angel-speak.

Originally posted by Obsidian

No, I do want to know the truth. And if I saw a man speak in an unlearned foreign language, that would probably convince me you were right. But from what I hear, Charismatics just spout gibberish and call it angel-speak.

If you really wanted to know, you would go where it happens. But people who are so intent on disproving something will likely not believe, even if they see.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

Didn't say I was. And that which you said dodges the truth of what I said. Be honest.

I am honest, Ty. You?

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I am honest, Ty. You?

I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

If I was being divisive, what you said would maybe apply. It isn't wrong for me to speak up firmly against those who maliciously accuse.

Telling one brother he's disobedient because he disagrees with you or telling another brother he's going to burn in hell isn't considered divisive to you?

You call it "speaking up firmly." I call it "hypocrisy."

What happened to "bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you?"

so back to the topic.

Ty you told CP that Jesus' divinity is equally as important as his humanity, and you chided him for trying to overemphasize his divinity when he asked you what role his divinity played in the atonement. And yet all he did was ask you what role his divinity played in addition to his humanity.

You keep overemphasizing his humanity in the atonement, and never mention his divinity, so if anyone is overemphasizing anything, it seems to be you.

I think Jesus being God was just as important as his humanity was in the atonement. Do you?

What role did Jesus being God play in the atonement? and do you agree that is it EQUALLY important as his humanity? Do you think that if someone denies his divinity but accepts just his humanity, he would be as much in error as if someone denied his humanity but just accepts his divinity (as gnostics tend to do)

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Ty... you're an earthling, buddy... no need for the hyperspiritual responses... just talk plain, ok? (Yes Ty, I'm aware of the quote... it just doesn't apply)

Originally posted by Michelle

Telling one brother he's disobedient because he disagrees with you or telling another brother he's going to burn in hell isn't considered divisive to you?

You call it "speaking up firmly." I call it "hypocrisy."

What happened to "bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you?"

Maybe here's a little insight... Benny Hinn leads by example... Kinda backward, isn't it?

Denver, September 17th, 1999
"Yes, Lord, I 'll do it. I place a curse on every man and every woman that will stretch his hand against this anointing. I curse that man who dares to speak a word against this ministry.

Ty, I think it actually says something about your judgment that you would just accept 28 years of gibberish without any critical analysis. I asked if you've ever heard human languages during that time, and you've said no...but you've heard[ someone say that someone else told him he had spoken in a human language. And that's all you can come up with in 28 years in terms of "tongues." Honestly, tongues are supposed to be a sign to the unbelievers, but Charismatic tongues just sound like insane (or demonic) gibberish to most outsiders. The absolute scarcity of actual dialogue in these languages is disturbing. I don't see why it doesn't disturb you. You can't just let mystical experiences get the better of you. Even if all your prophecies and miracles or whatever were legitimate, I don't think that would make up for the false tongues. That is, you could (theoretically) be right about everything else, but the tongues just do not seem biblical in the slightest.

Also, I think your grasp of the gospel is weak, as you seem to embrace lordship salvation. But I guess that's another debate, considering I don't really want to divert another thread with soteriological arguments at the moment.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty... you're an earthling, buddy... no need for the hyperspiritual responses... just talk plain, ok? (Yes Ty, I'm aware of the quote... it just doesn't apply)

It doesn't apply. Hmm. That's too bad. I thought you were my brother in Jesus. Yes, an angel said it. But he called John his brother.

Imagine that. We are supposed to be brothers, too. After all, we are on the same side, the kingdom from Heaven.

Why should brothers and sisters attack me for seeing what they refuse to see?

I am well aware of the dangers of 'angels of light' and deceiving spirits. I am also well acquainted with the Spirit of Truth. I check things out.

I understand the other side, who always suspected that if they saw a sign or wonder, it would definitely be a lying, deceiving spirit. That is why I check them out. The ones that ARE lying and deceiving are the few, not the most.

Originally posted by Obsidian

Ty, I think it actually says something about your judgment that you would just accept 28 years of gibberish without any critical analysis. I asked if you've ever heard human languages during that time, and you've said no...but you've heard[ someone say that someone else told him he had spoken in a human language. And that's all you can come up with in 28 years in terms of "tongues." Honestly, tongues are supposed to be a sign to the unbelievers, but Charismatic tongues just sound like insane (or demonic) gibberish to most outsiders. The absolute scarcity of actual dialogue in these languages is disturbing. I don't see why it doesn't disturb you. You can't just let mystical experiences get the better of you. Even if all your prophecies and miracles or whatever were legitimate, I don't think that would make up for the false tongues. That is, you could (theoretically) be right about everything else, but the tongues just do not seem biblical in the slightest.

Also, I think your grasp of the gospel is weak, as you seem to embrace lordship salvation. But I guess that's another debate, considering I don't really want to divert another thread with soteriological arguments at the moment.

The key word, where you are blowing it, are "sound like." YOU don't know the true from the false, and you suspect there are no true.

Dialogue is two-way conversation. The one example of hearing tongues in their own language was on the Day of Pentecost. And it was not two-way. The tongue talkers preached and exclaimed, the hearers heard.

My grasp of the gospel is STRONG, young one. You are only 23, and still wet behind the ears. Grow up.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

It doesn't apply. Hmm. That's too bad. I thought you were my brother in Jesus. Yes, an angel said it. But he called John his brother.

Imagine that. We are supposed to be brothers, too. After all, we are on the same side, the kingdom from Heaven.

Why should brothers and sisters attack me for seeing what they refuse to see?

I am well aware of the dangers of 'angels of light' and deceiving spirits. I am also well acquainted with the Spirit of Truth. I check things out.

I understand the other side, who always suspected that if they saw a sign or wonder, it would definitely be a lying, deceiving spirit. That is why I check them out. The ones that ARE lying and deceiving are the few, not the most.

You missed it, Ty, because you assumed. You're not being attacked, Ty. We're trying to reason with you. Attack? I'll leave that to Fred. Benny Hinn is a false prophet. MULTIPLE false prophesies. Does that bother you? You are blinded, Ty, but you think you are in the light and we're all blind. Hinn is a phony. Period. False prophesies and heresies. On the record. But you can't see that. The phenomenon of "tongues" occurs in pagan religions as well as "Christian" circles. Proves nothing.

Nobody is attacking you. Just trying to get to the truth. You're not checking things out, Ty. You are in defense mode. You have bought into the hyperspiritual nonsense and you think you are above everybody else. There is no humility in you. Are you interested in the Truth?

Originally posted by TyRockwell

It doesn't apply. Hmm. That's too bad. I thought you were my brother in Jesus. Yes, an angel said it. But he called John his brother.

Imagine that. We are supposed to be brothers, too. After all, we are on the same side, the kingdom from Heaven.

Why should brothers and sisters attack me for seeing what they refuse to see?

I am well aware of the dangers of 'angels of light' and deceiving spirits. I am also well acquainted with the Spirit of Truth. I check things out.

I understand the other side, who always suspected that if they saw a sign or wonder, it would definitely be a lying, deceiving spirit. That is why I check them out. The ones that ARE lying and deceiving are the few, not the most.

why is it OK for you to attack your brothers and sisters in Christ and try to correct us, but it's not ok for us to try to correct you or point out false teachings in the church?

sounds like a double standard.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You missed it, Ty, because you assumed. You're not being attacked, Ty. We're trying to reason with you. Attack? I'll leave that to Fred. Benny Hinn is a false prophet. MULTIPLE false prophesies. Does that bother you? You are blinded, Ty, but you think you are in the light and we're all blind. Hinn is a phony. Period. False prophesies and heresies. On the record. But you can't see that. The phenomenon of "tongues" occurs in pagan religions as well as "Christian" circles. Proves nothing.

You've never heard me defend that particular preacher, or any preacher.

The fact that pagan religions have false tongues only proves that Satan wants to discredit the true.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Nobody is attacking you. Just trying to get to the truth. You're not checking things out, Ty. You are in defense mode. You have bought into the hyperspiritual nonsense and you think you are above everybody else. There is no humility in you. Are you interested in the Truth?

Wrong. There have been attacks. When Obsidian tries to reduce my faith to "28 years of gibberish" he is attacking. And he is wrong to do that.

I know miracles, and signs and wonders, BUT I DON'T SEEK THEM.

They happen during ministry. The ministry is helping people, and healing people. It isn't done for show.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

My grasp of the gospel is STRONG, young one. You are only 23, and still wet behind the ears. Grow up.

You're not helping your case, Ty. Your immaturity is showing, even as you accuse "the kid" of being young.

Note to the "young one" ....

(1 Tim 4:12 KJV) Let no man despise thy youth; (especially Ty) but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.