Originally posted by Country Preacher

You're not helping your case, Ty. Your immaturity is showing, even as you accuse "the kid" of being young.

Note to the "young one"

(1 Tim 4:12 KJV) Let no man despise thy youth; (especially Ty) but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

The differences between Obsidian and Timothy would fill volumes.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

You've never heard me defend that particular preacher, or any preacher.

Do you agree he's phony? (warning to readers - expect to throw up as Ty explains that he never questions anybody else's credentials...)

The fact that pagan religions have false tongues only proves that Satan wants to discredit the true.

Ummmmm... so.... .... nevermind

There have been attacks. When Obsidian tries to reduce my faith to "28 years of gibberish" he is attacking. And he is wrong to do that.

No, Ty... he was being reasonable. Stating opinion and asking questions. Are you afraid of questions, Ty? Grow up, Ty, like you told the "young one" - don't be so thin-skinned.

Originally posted by Sparko

so back to the topic.

Ty you told CP that Jesus' divinity is equally as important as his humanity, and you chided him for trying to overemphasize his divinity when he asked you what role his divinity played in the atonement. And yet all he did was ask you what role his divinity played in addition to his humanity.

You keep overemphasizing his humanity in the atonement, and never mention his divinity, so if anyone is overemphasizing anything, it seems to be you.

I think Jesus being God was just as important as his humanity was in the atonement. Do you?

What role did Jesus being God play in the atonement? and do you agree that is it EQUALLY important as his humanity? Do you think that if someone denies his divinity but accepts just his humanity, he would be as much in error as if someone denied his humanity but just accepts his divinity (as gnostics tend to do)

So, how bout this one, Ty... can we please get back to this?

Originally posted by TyRockwell

You've never heard me defend that particular preacher, or any preacher.

Dang Ty! are you senile?

You constantly defend Hinn and the other TVangelists on TBN.

Remember the Todd Bentley threads? the threads where we posted evidence that Benny Hinn was a false prophet and you defended him to the point of making up explanations for him claiming Jesus was appearing to him on stage?

Hmmm. Ty tells Pilgrim he's going to burn in Hell and then tells Obsidian that he needs to grow up. Talk about irony.

Tell me Ty. What essential doctrine did Pilgrim deny that merits him burning in Hell? What will he burn in Hell for?

Originally posted by Phoenix Fawkes

Hmmm. Ty tells Pilgrim he's going to burn in Hell and then tells Obsidian that he needs to grow up. Talk about irony.

Tell me Ty. What essential doctrine did Pilgrim deny that merits him burning in Hell? What will he burn in Hell for?

Thou shal not disagree with God's Anointed One: Ty Rockwell or thou shall burn with everlasting flames and so on.

I think that was the eleventh commandment. but it got broken off when Moses smashed the tablets.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

You've never heard me defend that particular preacher, or any preacher.

Oh? never defended any preacher or specifically Benny Hinn?

hmm then what is this?

Oh it is your first post in a thread started by someone else asking about Todd Bentley and you came in on your Holy Spirit High horse to defend him.

and then again here in that same thread here you defend Benny Hinn.

and before you try to handwave this evidence like you did all the evidence of false prophecies made by Bennny Hinn there are at least 2 other threads along with that one where I can pull out posts like these.

So Ty, don't you think you need to confess something now, and apologize for calling a brother in Christ who does not deny any of the essential Christian Doctrine a heretic?

Originally posted by RumTumTugger

So Ty, don't you think you need to confess something now, and apologize for calling a brother in Christ who does not deny any of the essential Christian Doctrine a heretic?

Add in telling Pilgrim he'll burn in Hell. That definitely crosses the line.

Originally posted by Phoenix Fawkes

Add in telling Pilgrim he'll burn in Hell. That definitely crosses the line.

you are right.

Ty, about those apologies add this one to your list of apologies you owe.

Ty,

I say this in all sincerity, as a brother in Christ (no fooling).

This is a discussion forum. Lacking tone of voice and facial expression, things can often look more harsh than intended. You tend to get your feelings hurt and lash out, and you say things that are not in the best interest of the "fruit of the spirit". You tend to think you are under attack. You accuse others of being immature or less spiritual or blind or (gasp) young.... but you dispense criticism wildly.

I exhort you, Ty.. BE A MAN. Understand that you are being questioned because much of what you say is outside of mainline Christianity. It is POSSIBLE, of course, that you are "real". So stand your ground and defend your beliefs. But I also encourage you to "give a reason" for the faith which is in you.

Some comments toward you may actually be harsh, because it is so easy to get a "rise" out of you. You fall into that trap, over and over. State your case. Don't get your feelings hurt. If you're going to dish it out, prepare to take it. Like a man.

I have no animosity toward you, Ty. I try to use smiley faces and light-hearted banter to answer you, and I realize it may sound like I'm being a smart alek or I'm being unkind. I promise i'm not. I'm direct. I say what i mean and I mean what I say.

When you answer with a "verse of Scripture" that could easily be interpreted in any one of a number of ways - that's not helpful. When you snipe at somebody because they're young, or not as spiritual as you, or haven't seen the things you've seen or done the things you've done... that's not "spirit", Ty, that's flesh.

Do you believe what you believe? Then stand up for it. When sincere questions are asked, answer them. If somebody is just poking to get you riled up, ignore them. Don't play the game. But you make claims and you say things that, to many of us, are indefensible.

Personally, I'm going to try to be even more careful about how I ask questions, or make statements, but you need to do your part. You cannot condemn people simply because they disagree or don't believe you. You tend to set yourself up as being more enlightened than many of us, so you have the burden of being the "grown up" one! You do yourself no favor by snarking or sniping.

I lived the charismatic life years ago. I spoke in tongues. I can now. I frequently visited a Christian Commune back in the late 60's / early 70's and was into the whole "Jesus Freak" thing, long hair and all. Something didn't feel right. I began to sincerely pray and ask God to show me if I was involved in something that I didn't need to be in. The very next "praise service" at the "Agape House" was my answer. A young man who had been "baptized in the Spirit" and spoke in tongues two weeks prior, got "SAVED". Yeah, he spoke in tongues, and THEN got saved! I felt like I had my answer. Yeah, I know you're going to dismiss this as they didn't know what they were doing, or "whatever", but the truth is - I had asked God to show me "clearly" because I know I can be a blockhead. How much more clear can that be? They were all rejoicing like something wonderful had happened, and NONE of them said, "hey, wait... he got baptized in the spirit THEN got saved???"

I began looking at all that I had "learned" and all I had seen, and it was VERY HARD to walk away, because these were my friends. WONDERFUL people who were full of love, and I have no doubt they were sincere. But they were wrong. Two of them are still my best friends today.

All I ask, Ty, is that you ignore the folks who you think are just "whoopin up on you", but honestly answer those who are asking questions and trying to point out error. I hesitated to point out that you HAD defended Benny Hinn in the past, because I used to get you and Fred mixed up. Fred is nuttier than a fruitcake. I personally don't see any hope in reaching Fred. You, on the other hand, sound downright intelligent at times, . then other times, you sound like you're just lashing out or spouting nonsense, and, quite honestly, you sound like you're fighting like a little girl.. God is not the author of confusion. The Holy Spirit is real, but Satan is the great imitator.

You ignore legitimate questions, and lash out at silly stuff. I'd like to start over with you, Ty. I'm going to do my best to take you seriously, and I ask you to do the same to me. If your experiences are real, they'll stand up to scrutiny. But anybody can take a verse of scripture and run it through the "twist-o-verse" and make it say anything they want it to say. Look at what the Bible SAYS, not what somebody has told you it says, or what you want it to say.

Your accusation that somebody attacked your 28 years of faith.... that's bull corn, Ty... Be a big boy.. I have been attacked, but I've been a Christian for nearly 40 years, and NOBODY can take my faith away from me... attack as they may, I am what I am, and that's a sinner saved by Grace and growing in the Lord.

I'm totally prepared for you to rip this post to shreds, and that's OK. I'm HOPING, however, that you take it to heart.

I'm just sayin

Ty, I don't think it's too much to ask to hear at least one legit human language in 28 years of being Charismatic. How long do you think you could hang around Peter or Thomas without hearing them open up with some crazy barbarian language? The difference between Charismatic phenomena and the apostolic era is rather obvious on this point.

Originally posted by RumTumTugger

Oh? never defended any preacher or specifically Benny Hinn?

hmm then what is this?

Oh it is your first post in a thread started by someone else asking about Todd Bentley and you came in on your Holy Spirit High horse to defend him.

I said it is wrong to say he isn't a Christian, or to say he casts out demons by Beelzebub. I'm saying you over-reach with your accusations. I didn't bring him up, and I didn't know much about him. I think, now that he was untrained and too uncontrolled. But, he IS a Christian, from what I know.

Originally posted by RumTumTugger

and then again here in that same thread here you defend Benny Hinn.

I said his name is used as a perjorative term. That is not defending him or accusing him. By 'perjorative term' you know very well that on this topic, you try to smear me and others with his name. Your questions are accusatory, in that you want to link me and other faith preachers to him! Admit it! Its been done dozens of times.

Originally posted by RumTumTugger

and before you try to handwave this evidence like you did all the evidence of false prophecies made by Bennny Hinn there are at least 2 other threads along with that one where I can pull out posts like these.

So Ty, don't you think you need to confess something now, and apologize for calling a brother in Christ who does not deny any of the essential Christian Doctrine a heretic?

The Bible definition, as proved by the Greek Dictionary, is that a heretic is someone who is divisive and sectarian. You, and AP, however want to go by what the USAGE of 'heresy' came to mean over time.

Heresy is included in lists in the NT along with: strife, divisions, back-biting, desensions, jeolousy, and bitter envy, and other terms that mean to divide the body of Christ, and cause hatred and quarrelling.

Originally posted by Phoenix Fawkes

Add in telling Pilgrim he'll burn in Hell. That definitely crosses the line.

You are two-faced. You are quick to claim an offense you think I made, but you hand-wave off (to use a phrase you use) the numerous accusations and other evil things you and others have said about me.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

You are two-faced. You are quick to claim an offense you think I made, but you hand-wave off (to use a phrase you use) the numerous accusations and other evil things you and others have said about me.

Ty. I never said you were going to Hell. Now you want to tell me what evil and wicked things I've said? Go for it. I watch my terminology closely. If I tell you you don't know what you're talking about, it's because I believe it's true and if it's true, it's not really evil. To tell you that however is a far cry different from what you did. Do you really think if I said these two statements there's no real difference between them?:

"Ty. You don't know what you'll talking about."

"Ty. You're going to burn in Hell unless you repent for what you're saying."

Somehow, I think the second one is far worse.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I said it is wrong to say he isn't a Christian, or to say he casts out demons by Beelzebub. I'm saying you over-reach with your accusations. I didn't bring him up, and I didn't know much about him. I think, now that he was untrained and too uncontrolled. But, he IS a Christian, from what I know.

You jumped into a thread that was about him, Ty to attack those who like True Bereans were testing him. Any intelligent person can see that you were defending him. as they can see you continually defending any teacher folks had questions about their teaching and/or whether they did indeed perform miracles. handwaving any thing anyone showed you from the WoF teachers own mouths that called there teachings and miracles in questions. Ty, do you really want me to link to all your posts you have done that or will you admit that you have and save yourself the embarrassment.

I said his name is used as a perjorative term. That is not defending him or accusing him. By 'perjorative term' you know very well that on this topic, you try to smear me and others with his name. Your questions are accusatory, in that you want to link me and other faith preachers to him! Admit it! Its been done dozens of times.

Actually you were defending him there but here is more evidence from that same thread Ty. and here in another thread every time someone shows something that is questionable about any WoF teacher you come to their defense and say we are not allowed to say anything against them going so far as to call such people heretics. That is defending them no matter how you try to twist it.

The Bible definition, as proved by the Greek Dictionary, is that a heretic is someone who is divisive and sectarian. You, and AP, however want to go by what the USAGE of 'heresy' came to mean over time.

Heresy is included in lists in the NT along with: strife, divisions, back-biting, desensions, jeolousy, and bitter envy, and other terms that mean to divide the body of Christ, and cause hatred and quarrelling.

Ty, by your definition then you are also a heretic. Because you keep being divisive and sectarian against those of us who are the TRUE Bereans who test what is being taught to see if agrees with what God has revealed already. Neither God nor Jesus change they are the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, no amount saying we no longer need to use the definition God had of false prophets in the OT because we have the NT will change what God has revealed in the OT.

BTW Ty the NT does not have a different definition for false prophet nor does it have any different way of handling those that teach wrongfully we are still to flee them and not follow them. so when are you going to follow the NT and flee from the false prophets and teachers Or are you going to continue to defend them without truly testing them like you are right now and worse yet insisting that we stop said testing of the teachings. wrongfully accepting the Signs and Wonders as being b]THE[/b] proof of it coming from God instead of making sure it is the Truth they are teaching? Sorry Ty, I cannot in good conscience do that If I want to continue to be a woman who's Lord is Jesus 100% man and 100% God.

And Ty I am not a cessatinist I know God can do miracles but will not just accept a man who does or has said he does miracles as being of God without the testing to see if that is indeed by what has already been revealed.

Oh and Ty, Just because you do not like the definition Christians have had for a word since at least the 2nd Century does not mean we are not to call False doctrine false what it is and the teachers of said false doctrine as folks not to follow. Heretic has been used since at least the 2nd century by Christian thinkers adn philosphers to mean a teacher of false doctrine, not someone who is divisive on non essentials. So even if you disagree with us on what the essentials are you cannot call us heretics without you calling yourself one. Or remain a hypocrite who judges others differently then he judges himself.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Ty,

I say this in all sincerity, as a brother in Christ (no fooling).

This is a discussion forum. Lacking tone of voice and facial expression, things can often look more harsh than intended. You tend to get your feelings hurt and lash out, and you say things that are not in the best interest of the "fruit of the spirit". You tend to think you are under attack.
You accuse others of being immature or less spiritual or blind or (gasp) young.... but you dispense criticism wildly.

That's the pot side of the debate calling the kettle side black.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I exhort you, Ty.. BE A MAN. Understand that you are being questioned because much of what you say is outside of mainline Christianity. It is POSSIBLE, of course, that you are "real". So stand your ground and defend your beliefs. But I also encourage you to "give a reason" for the faith which is in you.

Before I go any further, I want you to know that though you try to hide it in a 'brotherly advice' mode, you are really talking down to me. You should not do that. I AM a Man. You just showed up here recently, and you may think you know me but you don't.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Some comments toward you may actually be harsh,

Many, not 'some.' When supposed 'Christians' imply you are deceived, that is more than harsh. It ignores my many years of walking with the Lord, knowing Him, and serving Him. I am not naive or a novice. I AM a man, and you, or whoever must not talk down to me. The criticisms made against me are MOST of the time uncalled for. It is not done to find out what I know, but it is done to MOCK things they, and you, don't know and don't want to know.

It is shear audacity for you, or them to claim what I know is not true.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

When you cite a scripture that can be interpreted in any number of ways...[the text here somehow deleted itself]...

Give me the benefit of the doubt that I DO know which of the interpretations is right. Try to find out why I interpret the way I do. Don't just blow it off without seeking to understand. I'll explain a sincere question. Don't make an accusation (this is more for others than for you) that I don't understand. I DO. But others are so dogmatic on their trained response they don't have ears to hear.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

When you snipe at somebody because they're young, or not as spiritual as you, or haven't seen the things you've seen or done the things you've done... that's not "spirit", Ty, that's flesh.

That is your opinion. The 'young one' was talking down to me. I was his age once but I didn't remain unknowing, and I surely didn't put down elders who had been knowing the Lord, personally, for many years.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Do you believe what you believe? Then stand up for it. When sincere questions are askeld, answer them.

I do answer sincere questions. Even then, the questioner has often fallen back into the 'pack mentality' as if I didn't.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

If somebody is just poking to get you riled up, ignore them. Don't play the game. But you make claims and you say things that, to many of us, are indefensible.

If I don't respond they accuse me of dodging. You cannot separate the question, sometimes, from the snotty way they ask it.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Personally, I'm going to try to be even more careful about how I ask questions, or make statements, but you need to do your part. You cannot condemn people simply because they disagree or don't believe you.

Thanks for the effort. We will see if you follow through. I DON'T condemn anyone for simply disagreeing or not believing me. But if you think they haven't done so in a mean, accusing fashion, then you haven't been paying attention, at all.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You tend to set yourself up as being more enlightened than many of us, so you have the burden of being the "grown up" one! You do yourself no favor by snarking or sniping.

That sentence was spoken in a know-it-all condescending manner. I AM grown up, and you are being disrespectful.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I lived the charismatic life years ago. I spoke in tongues. I can now. I frequently visited a Christian Commune back in the late 60's / early 70's and was into the whole "Jesus Freak" thing, long hair and all. Something didn't feel right. I began to sincerely pray and ask God to show me if I was involved in something that I didn't need to be in. The very next "praise service" at the "Agape House" was my answer. A young man who had been "baptized in the Spirit" and spoke in tongues two weeks prior, got "SAVED". Yeah, he spoke in tongues, and THEN got saved! I felt like I had my answer. Yeah, I know you're going to dismiss this as they didn't know what they were doing, or "whatever", but the truth is - I had asked God to show me "clearly" because I know I can be a blockhead. How much more clear can that be? They were all rejoicing like something wonderful had happened, and NONE of them said, "hey, wait... he got baptized in the spirit THEN got saved???"

That isn't all that uncommon in some Pentecostal circles who believe you are lost again if you sin. Some of them get saved every week! I don't believe you become lost again, you'd have to become 'un-born.'
Don't let that throw you off of the Charismatic understanding of faith and doing what Jesus did, as he said we would. You can help more people when you believe the anointing than you ever will with comforting words.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I began looking at all that I had "learned" and all I had seen, and it was VERY HARD to walk away, because these were my friends. WONDERFUL people who were full of love, and I have no doubt they were sincere. But they were wrong. Two of them are still my best friends today.

If they believe they can be lost so easily, they ARE wrong. But you don't attack them on it, do you?

Originally posted by Country Preacher

All I ask, Ty, is that you ignore the folks who you think are just "whoopin up on you", but honestly answer those who are asking questions and trying to point out error.

Those who you say I should ignore don't leave it alone. RumTum and Apologia P are two of the most persistent, then say I 'ran away' if I didn't answer what they wanted to hear. I am not going to pussy-foot around with them. They deserve rebuke. And they deserve a bear coming out of the woods to rip them to shreds. I hope they'll just back off, but they persue me.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I hesitated to point out that you HAD defended Benny Hinn in the past, because I used to get you and Fred mixed up. Fred is nuttier than a fruitcake.

No, I have not defended him. I have said they use his name against me, to apply it to me. I speak from the Bible, not from what any preacher says. I have defended the Bible's teachings on healing, and the blessing to prosper and succeed, because the Bible makes it clear. THEY however, present a mocking mischaracterization, and use preachers names, simply to try to connect them to the false presentation.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I personally don't see any hope in reaching Fred.

I don't defend him, either, though he has come to my threads, and I was on one of his before I saw the fruitiness. Don't lump me in with him.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You, on the other hand, sound downright intelligent at times, .

You should have stopped right there.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

then other times, you sound like you're just lashing out or spouting nonsense, and, quite honestly, you sound like you're fighting like a little girl.. God is not the author of confusion. The Holy Spirit is real, but Satan is the great imitator.

I am of the Holy Spirit. If I lash out, no matter how much you might disagree with the manner, it is always from the side of the Holy Spirit, and it is condemning to say otherwise.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

You ignore legitimate questions,

That's your misguided opinion. I am not able to answer all the 'legitimate' questions, some of which I have already answered, but they hound me as if I had not.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

and lash out at silly stuff. I'd like to start over with you, Ty. I'm going to do my best to take you seriously, and I ask you to do the same to me. If your experiences are real, they'll stand up to scrutiny.

I stand up for what the Lord has taught me. I know, that I know, that I know, on the subjects I take a stand on. I'll be fair with you. I have been defensive at times, but I am always ready to get along and let by-gones be by-gones. And I always hope that people will be fair with me. I actually pray for you guys. I have to use your usernames, but God knows who you are!

Originally posted by Country Preacher

But anybody can take a verse of scripture and run it through the "twist-o-verse" and make it say anything they want it to say. Look at what the Bible SAYS, not what somebody has told you it says, or what you want it to say.

I have said exactly the SAME thing for many years.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

Your accusation that somebody attacked your 28 years of faith.... that's bull corn, Ty... Be a big boy..

There is that TALKING DOWN to me attitude again.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I have been attacked, but I've been a Christian for nearly 40 years, and NOBODY can take my faith away from me... attack as they may, I am what I am, and that's a sinner saved by Grace and growing in the Lord.

I have been saved for 41 years, but living by faith for 28 years. I didn't say they were 'taking my faith from me.' That is impossible. The attack was spoken, and I came against it, and I will NEVER BE ASHAMED of what I believe.

Originally posted by Country Preacher

I'm totally prepared for you to rip this post to shreds, and that's OK. I'm HOPING, however, that you take it to heart.

I'm just sayin

I'm not going to rip your post to shreds, It is a good one, and I appreciate that you are not like the others who need to learn from your example.(imperfect as you are...)