RumTum,
Do Not Say I defended ANYONE. I defend the Bible. Stop being a witch-Jezebel. You are obsessed with your mistaken rectitude. This is MY thread, as were others. But you are so obsessed, you justify taking it over and interrupting.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

That's the pot side of the debate calling the kettle side black.


Before I go any further, I want you to know that though you try to hide it in a 'brotherly advice' mode, you are really talking down to me. You should not do that. I AM a Man. You just showed up here recently, and you may think you know me but you don't.



Many, not 'some.' When supposed 'Christians' imply you are deceived, that is more than harsh. It ignores my many years of walking with the Lord, knowing Him, and serving Him. I am not naive or a novice. I AM a man, and you, or whoever must not talk down to me. The criticisms made against me are MOST of the time uncalled for. It is not done to find out what I know, but it is done to MOCK things they, and you, don't know and don't want to know.

It is shear audacity for you, or them to claim what I know is not true.


Give me the benefit of the doubt that I DO know which of the interpretations is right. Try to find out why I interpret the way I do. Don't just blow it off without seeking to understand. I'll explain a sincere question. Don't make an accusation (this is more for others than for you) that I don't understand. I DO. But others are so dogmatic on their trained response they don't have ears to hear.


That is your opinion. The 'young one' was talking down to me. I was his age once but I didn't remain unknowing, and I surely didn't put down elders who had been knowing the Lord, personally, for many years.


I do answer sincere questions. Even then, the questioner has often fallen back into the 'pack mentality' as if I didn't.


If I don't respond they accuse me of dodging. You cannot separate the question, sometimes, from the snotty way they ask it.


Thanks for the effort. We will see if you follow through. I DON'T condemn anyone for simply disagreeing or not believing me. But if you think they haven't done so in a mean, accusing fashion, then you haven't been paying attention, at all.


That sentence was spoken in a know-it-all condescending manner. I AM grown up, and you are being disrespectful.

That isn't all that uncommon in some Pentecostal circles who believe you are lost again if you sin. Some of them get saved every week! I don't believe you become lost again, you'd have to become 'un-born.'
Don't let that throw you off of the Charismatic understanding of faith and doing what Jesus did, as he said we would. You can help more people when you believe the anointing than you ever will with comforting words.


If they believe they can be lost so easily, they ARE wrong. But you don't attack them on it, do you?


Those who you say I should ignore don't leave it alone. RumTum and Apologia P are two of the most persistent, then say I 'ran away' if I didn't answer what they wanted to hear. I am not going to pussy-foot around with them. They deserve rebuke. And they deserve a bear coming out of the woods to rip them to shreds. I hope they'll just back off, but they persue me.


No, I have not defended him. I have said they use his name against me, to apply it to me. I speak from the Bible, not from what any preacher says. I have defended the Bible's teachings on healing, and the blessing to prosper and succeed, because the Bible makes it clear. THEY however, present a mocking mischaracterization, and use preachers names, simply to try to connect them to the false presentation.


I don't defend him, either, though he has come to my threads, and I was on one of his before I saw the fruitiness. Don't lump me in with him.


You should have stopped right there.



I am of the Holy Spirit. If I lash out, no matter how much you might disagree with the manner, it is always from the side of the Holy Spirit, and it is condemning to say otherwise.


That's your misguided opinion. I am not able to answer all the 'legitimate' questions, some of which I have already answered, but they hound me as if I had not.


I stand up for what the Lord has taught me. I know, that I know, that I know, on the subjects I take a stand on. I'll be fair with you. I have been defensive at times, but I am always ready to get along and let by-gones be by-gones. And I always hope that people will be fair with me. I actually pray for you guys. I have to use your usernames, but God knows who you are!


I have said exactly the SAME thing for many years.


There is that TALKING DOWN to me attitude again.


I have been saved for 41 years, but living by faith for 28 years. I didn't say they were 'taking my faith from me.' That is impossible. The attack was spoken, and I came against it, and I will NEVER BE ASHAMED of what I believe.


I'm not going to rip your post to shreds, It is a good one, and I appreciate that you are not like the others who need to learn from your example.(imperfect as you are...)

Ty, nobody has ever questioned your salvation. Yet you routinely do that to us.

What we do question is your defense of the WoF teachers when we show them to be false prophets. What we do question is your wild interpretations of scripture. And your glaring hypocrisy.

If anyone "talks down" to people, it is you. Your response to CP's post was typical. Pure paranoia and hubris.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

RumTum,
Do Not Say I defended ANYONE. I defend the Bible. Stop being a witch-Jezebel. You are obsessed with your mistaken rectitude. This is MY thread, as were others. But you are so obsessed, you justify taking it over and interrupting.

ty she gave several examples. When I pointed out that Benny Hinn claimed that Jesus was going to appear on stage, you made up all sorts of excuses for him being a false prophet. when I pointed out that Creflo Dollar talked against the trinity, you made up more excuses for him too. Sounds like you were defending them to me.

and your accusing Rum Tum of being a witch just goes to show that you are divisive and sectarian. more hypocrisy.

and as far as interupting, Rum Tum, and I purposfully stayed OUT of this thread until it was WAY off topic again. Mostly because you refused to answer questions that were on the topic and started accusing people again, like you normally do. This is nobody's fault but your own.

Originally posted by Sparko

Ty, nobody has ever questioned your salvation. Yet you routinely do that to us.

Routinely, no. I have NOT 'routinely' said you are not saved. Sometimes, in the heat of discussion, you will get a taste of your own 'medicine.' That is what you deserve.

But by the standards you erect, those you say are not Christians, would imply that I am not a Christian. Like I've said, I defend the Bible. But when I see you misrepresenting the teachings of those you say are not Christians, then you are also misrepresenting me and I must not be a Christian, either.

But even you say I AM a Christian. You know me enough to know that I know the Lord, and I have given Him my life and He has written His word on my heart.

You should give that much grace and mercy to the other Christians you say are not Christians.

Originally posted by Sparko

What we do question is your defense of the WoF teachers when we show them to be false prophets.

I defend that they are Christians.

Originally posted by Sparko

What we do question is your wild interpretations of scripture.

What you do is spout your misunderstanding of scripture. You fail to see that you have received a 'rote' memorization that imposes a false interpretation on scripture.

Originally posted by Sparko

And your glaring hypocrisy.

Spoken like a true, full-fledged, antagonist, who gets all self-righteously critical, if someone opposes your attacks. I am not going to lie down and accept your attacks. And try to remember that your harsh criticisms came before my responses that you call 'hypocritical' when they are only strong defenses.

If my responses seem harsh, it is because you don't see your own harsh statements to me, that came first.

Originally posted by Sparko

If anyone "talks down" to people, it is you. Your response to CP's post was typical. Pure paranoia and hubris.

Bull-dung. In my response, I acknowledge the attacks, but I in NO WAY have any fear. You, really, are offended that I am not intimidated.

Originally posted by Sparko

ty she gave several examples. When I pointed out that Benny Hinn claimed that Jesus was going to appear on stage, you made up all sorts of excuses for him being a false prophet.

I was not defending him, except to say he is a Christian. It seems I heard that some people did see Jesus. Its just like God to only let some, but not all see something.

Originally posted by Sparko

when I pointed out that Creflo Dollar talked against the trinity, you made up more excuses for him too. Sounds like you were defending them to me.

I said that I understand the teaching, and that it is a misrepresentation to say that he denies the trinity. If you aked him, "Do you believe in the trinity?" I am quite sure he would say "Yes, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

But you won't consider that. You take the fact that he said Jesus was doing some things, living his life AS a man, and to you it seems he has denied the trinity. That is just dishonest.


We've already been over these things too many times

Originally posted by Sparko

and your accusing Rum Tum of being a witch just goes to show that you are divisive and sectarian. more hypocrisy.

The spirit of Jezebel, whom Jesus mentioned in Rev. 2:20-23 is a controlling spirit that tries to intimidate men of God, and control the church; and lead it into compromised religion.
I don't go around stalking her from thread to thread, causing disruptions, and taking the thread off topic.

Originally posted by Sparko

and as far as interupting, Rum Tum, and I purposfully stayed OUT of this thread until it was WAY off topic again. Mostly because you refused to answer questions that were on the topic and started accusing people again, like you normally do. This is nobody's fault but your own.

That is simply self-justifying. I asked you both to stay away. You take things off topic, so to say it was already off topic, is a double indictment on you that you want it off topic. That is a controlling spirit of witchcraft.

I also stayed out of this thread but then you said Pilgrim was going to burn in Hell and well, as much as I disagree with Pilgrim on several issues and he knows that, I could not stand aside on that one.

And to add in to your "Everyone's attacking me!" cry, I find it amusing you do that and then you call RumTum a Jezebel witch.

How's the view from your self-righteous high horse?

Originally posted by TyRockwell

That's the pot side of the debate calling the kettle side black.

OK, so we're both black. Next?

Before I go any further, I want you to know that though you try to hide it in a 'brotherly advice' mode, you are really talking down to me.

No, Ty, i was being sincere. But I think this shows a bit of immaturity on your part. You seem to have an inability to receive correction. That's a sign of lack of wisdom. NOT an attack Ty, I'm being quite sincere.

I AM a man, and you, or whoever must not talk down to me.

Why, Ty? We ALL need a reality check occasionally. Why are you exempt? Seriously

Give me the benefit of the doubt that I DO know which of the interpretations is right.

I did.

Try to find out why I interpret the way I do. Don't just blow it off without seeking to understand. I'll explain a sincere question.

Ty, if you were not so reactive, it would be a lot easier to believe this.

That is your opinion. The 'young one' was talking down to me. I was his age once but I didn't remain unknowing, and I surely didn't put down elders who had been knowing the Lord, personally, for many years.

This is no excuse for being condescending. Your maturity should be an example.

I do answer sincere questions. Even then, the questioner has often fallen back into the 'pack mentality' as if I didn't.

Perhaps. I think you've dodged a few. But I hear what you're saying.

If I don't respond they accuse me of dodging. You cannot separate the question, sometimes, from the snotty way they ask it.

Sure you can, Ty. That's part of being mature.

Thanks for the effort. We will see if you follow through. I DON'T condemn anyone for simply disagreeing or not believing me. But if you think they haven't done so in a mean, accusing fashion, then you haven't been paying attention, at all.

I think some of our "regulars" get a bit frustrated with you, and they tend to be a bit .. um... determined. But you feed this, Ty, by coming across as "super spiritual" and "can't be taught". That is so foolish, Ty. We can ALL learn. Some of my greatest lessons in life have come from some of my biggest critics. I like to call it "spiritual sandpaper". You may be flushing truth down the toilet simply because it comes to you in not so pretty packaging.

That sentence was spoken in a know-it-all condescending manner. I AM grown up, and you are being disrespectful.

No, it wasn't. I was most sincere when I wrote that whole post. Honesty sometimes hurts, Ty... and there are times you seem more like you are REACTING than answering. Quite sincere, I assure you.

That isn't all that uncommon in some Pentecostal circles who believe you are lost again if you sin. Some of them get saved every week! I don't believe you become lost again, you'd have to become 'un-born.'

So you can see why there's skepticism about things "hyper spiritual"?

Don't let that throw you off of the Charismatic understanding of faith and doing what Jesus did, as he said we would. You can help more people when you believe the anointing than you ever will with comforting words.

That's pretty subjective.

If they believe they can be lost so easily, they ARE wrong. But you don't attack them on it, do you?

I don't generally attack anybody, Ty. I kinda have fun "playing" with the nutcases like Fred, and when you're being ... um... difficult... it's easy to "play" with you, but I really am trying to understand. (You, not Fred)

Those who you say I should ignore don't leave it alone. RumTum and Apologia P are two of the most persistent, then say I 'ran away' if I didn't answer what they wanted to hear. I am not going to pussy-foot around with them. They deserve rebuke. And they deserve a bear coming out of the woods to rip them to shreds. I hope they'll just back off, but they persue me.

That's because you're so "easy", Ty. Let your nay be nay and your yea be yea. Period. You tend to pay back perceived hostility with hostility. Be the bigger man. Be an example.

Here's the problem, I think. Whether you intend it or not, you set yourself up as "I'm more spiritual than you". Deny it all you want, Ty, that's the impression you give.

so THAT sets you up on a "higher standard". So when you respond "in kind", you just show that you're no different than anybody else. If you're going to set yourself up to a higher standard, then maintain it, Ty!

No, I have not defended him. I have said they use his name against me, to apply it to me. I speak from the Bible, not from what any preacher says. I have defended the Bible's teachings on healing, and the blessing to prosper and succeed, because the Bible makes it clear. THEY however, present a mocking mischaracterization, and use preachers names, simply to try to connect them to the false presentation.

Well, Hinn, particularly, has made numerous false prophesies, and some of his "healings" have been documented as faked. He has also been documented to teach heresies, some of which he later changed and denied. The things you say sound an awful lot like Hinn, so don't be surprised if somebody links you to him. If you don't have the courage to denounce Hinn, then, unfortunately, you're "married" to him, Ty. That's life.

I don't defend him, either, though he has come to my threads, and I was on one of his before I saw the fruitiness. Don't lump me in with him.

Fair enough. (this was about Fred) Here's the problem, Ty... think about Fred, and why so many people are so frustrated with him. Then think about the fact that you tend to be lumped with Fred. Why is that? Seriously! That should give you a hint that MAYBE there's something wrong with your approach. I'm just sayin'.

I am of the Holy Spirit. If I lash out, no matter how much you might disagree with the manner, it is always from the side of the Holy Spirit, and it is condemning to say otherwise.

This is where we're going to very STRONGLY disagree, Ty. Your claim of being spirit-filled is NOT a license to operate in the flesh, and claim it's spirit. You are absolutely 100% wrong in this. You can't have it both ways. I know quite a few "spirit filled" people, and they tend to have a dignity and a "quiet answer turneth away wrath" approach. Realizing you're going to see this as an attack (as you see ANY attempt at correcting you) I'm still going to stay it, Ty... you are not above correction. You CAN be wrong. Your refusal to accept correction is a major mark of immaturity. (feel free to lash out)

That's your misguided opinion. I am not able to answer all the 'legitimate' questions, some of which I have already answered, but they hound me as if I had not.

Then simply provide a link to your answer and say, like they do in a court room "asked and answered".

I stand up for what the Lord has taught me. I know, that I know, that I know, on the subjects I take a stand on. I'll be fair with you. I have been defensive at times, but I am always ready to get along and let by-gones be by-gones. And I always hope that people will be fair with me.

Life is not fair, Ty. It is what it is. That doesn't change the fact that a Child of God should act like a Child of God, even if you believe others are not doing so. This gets back to the "higher standard". You set yourself up, Ty... you're more spiritual than us. So you open yourself up to attack, then "react" when the attack comes. That, again, speaks to maturity. And, no, I am NOT "talking down to you", Ty... it's called "correction". We all need it from time to time, and the wise among us accept it.

I actually pray for you guys. I have to use your usernames, but God knows who you are!

Well, we have something in common!

There is that TALKING DOWN to me attitude again.

It is PRIDE, Ty, that prevents you from considering the POSSIBILITY that just MAYBE the Lord is speaking to you through somebody else, or that there MIGHT be something in you that needs corrected. You seem to see yourself as a "finished product", above reproach or correction. That is an INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS position.

I have been saved for 41 years, but living by faith for 28 years. I didn't say they were 'taking my faith from me.' That is impossible. The attack was spoken, and I came against it, and I will NEVER BE ASHAMED of what I believe.

I'm just trying to help you see that you bring a lot of this on yourself, Ty.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I have been saved for 41 years, but living by faith for 28 years. I didn't say they were 'taking my faith from me.' That is impossible. The attack was spoken, and I came against it, and I will NEVER BE ASHAMED of what I believe.

I just sort of chuckled at the how CP said he'd been a Christian for 40 years and Ty came back with, "Yeah, well I've been one for 41 years! Made me smile a little bit.

I missed the part where Ty said I was going to burn in hell. First time any one's ever said that to me. I'll just remind Ty of what James said:

James 4:11-12

11Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

As I understand it this verse is not talking about simple, every day judgment, you know where we hold one another accountable in faith and encourage one another on towards righteousness. Rather it is talking about one who would stand as God over another as it pertains to eternal judgment. Which is what Ty seems to me to be doing by claiming to know the eternal destination of another person's soul. Ty, that is a call for God to make. If you take God's place over my soul you are neither loving me, your neighbor because you are playing God over me, nor are you loving God because you have usurped his place. In so doing you have broken the entire of the law which Jesus summed up as loving God and neighbor. Its something to think about.

Originally posted by Pilgrim

I just sort of chuckled at the how CP said he'd been a Christian for 40 years and Ty came back with, "Yeah, well I've been one for 41 years! Made me smile a little bit.

First liar doesn't stand a chance! (it's JUST AN EXPRESSION, Ty!)

Guys, all these personality arguments are kinda getting in the way and cluttering the forum. Let's just stick to the facts:

1) Pretty much all Christians believe in exorcisms and answered prayer, although they vary in their expectations of the frequency of these events.
2) Ty has arguably stopped a tornado.
3) Ty has never heard an unlearned human tongue during the past 28 years, although he has once heard someone else report that a third man claimed to hear such a tongue emanating from the second man -- while the second man thought he was uttering gibberish.

Originally posted by Obsidian

Could you explain to me how it's possible to "prophecy in part," as opposed to prophecying in some other way?

I was kind of looking forward to an answer to this one, as well.

Originally posted by Obsidian

Guys, all these personality arguments are kinda getting in the way and cluttering the forum.

I suppose....

Let's just stick to the facts:

1) Pretty much all Christians believe in exorcisms and answered prayer, although they vary in their expectations of the frequency of these events.

I would add that we differ in our interpretation of the reasons for these events, as well.

2) Ty has arguably stopped a tornado.

Well, I'll argue your language here. He didn't STOP the tornado, he just made it skip over his own house.

Originally posted by Ty, when enumerating the various miracles he's witnessed:

The next morning we saw where the tornado had torn up the trees coming toward our house, and we saw on the other side where it had shredded through a patch of woods that was even more ripped to pieces than the approach to the house. The tornado had lifted up and skipped over our house.

3) Ty has never heard an unlearned human tongue during the past 28 years, although he has once heard someone else report that a third man claimed to hear such a tongue emanating from the second man -- while the second man thought he was uttering gibberish.

This has me wondering...
Just because he can't pinpoint a first hand experience uttering a known language which he had not previously learned, or even the second hand experience of being in attendance when someone else uttered an unlearned, but existent, language, doesn't mean that it didn't happen unaware to the participants. BUT...isn't there supposed to be an interpretation or else the speaker is supposed to stay quiet? Although, come to think of it, that wouldn't really explain whether the tongues were earthly or heavenly, would it?

Originally posted by Sparko

Ty, nobody has ever questioned your salvation. Yet you routinely do that to us.

Routinely, no. I have NOT 'routinely' said you are not saved. Sometimes, in the heat of discussion, you will get a taste of your own 'medicine.' That is what you deserve.

But by the standards you erect, those you say are not Christians, would imply that I am not a Christian. Like I've said, I defend the Bible. But when I see you misrepresenting the teachings of those you say are not Christians, then you are also misrepresenting me and I must not be a Christian, either.

Ty the ones we are talking about are those who deny essential doctrines, like the trinity. Or who make false prophesies.

Do you deny the trinity? Do you make false prophesies? I have never accused you of either, and yet you seem to want to lump yourself in with them and say I am accusing you as I do them.

But I am concerned about your apparent overemphasizing of the humanity of Jesus and underplaying the divinity. You seem to think as long as someone accepts that Jesus was a sinless man who died for their sins, they are saved, and don't think that believing that he was also God is important. When I ask you about it, you dodge around and won't give a clear answer. In this very thread, you start it out talking about nothing but Jesus being a perfect MAN. You even capitalize the word. But you do not mention his being God at all. And when CP asked you about it, you actually accused HIM of not being balanced in regard to Jesus.

When he asked you what role did Jesus' divinity play in the atonement, you dodged again. I don't think you really know. Or maybe you think it played no part at all but are afraid to admit it. maybe you think it only played a role in the incarnation?

I believe his divinity and humanity BOTH played a role in the atonement.

But even you say I AM a Christian. You know me enough to know that I know the Lord, and I have given Him my life and He has written His word on my heart.

I have never said otherwise, ty. And yet you have said I am a member of the brood of vipers, you exorcized me from one of your threads, and you have questioned my salvation and the salvation of others. You condemn Rum Tum as a witch, you said Pilgrim would burn in hell, and similar things about others.

You should give that much grace and mercy to the other Christians you say are not Christians.

And you should take your own advice. At least I am saying that those who deny the trinity are not Christians. You are condemning people who you KNOW are Christians.

Originally posted by Sparko

What we do question is your defense of the WoF teachers when we show them to be false prophets.

I defend that they are Christians.

You defend more than that. You defended Hinn's false prophesies. You defended Creflo Dollar's denial of the trinity, saying that he mispoke and just didn't understand what he was saying. As if you could read his mind.

Ty those that deny the trinity even after knowing full well what the trinity is, they condemn themselves. They are not Christians. Again, we are NOT talking about immature Christians who just don't KNOW what the trinity is, we are talking about those who actively preach and teach against the trinity. Those who the trinity has been explained and they argue against it, knowingly denying it. I can point you to a dozen of them here on tweb. You can ask them directly if you like. Or you could join in on a thread about it. I can give you a link if you like.

Originally posted by Sparko

What we do question is your wild interpretations of scripture.

What you do is spout your misunderstanding of scripture. You fail to see that you have received a 'rote' memorization that imposes a false interpretation on scripture.

Ty, I have not been given a "rote" anything. I study the bible on my own and get my doctrine from there. In fact, my background in religion was that I was taught by Jehovah's Witnesses as a child (never joined though) and was taught that Jesus was the archangel Michael and all the stuff that went with that. So when I eventually did become a Christian, I had all that baggage. Nobody even taught me about the trinity because I had moved to a new city. I studied the bible on my own and found out that Jesus was God. It kinda shocked me. But I accepted it because it was taught in the bible. I talked to others and was told about the trinity and did some background studying on it. I was saved before I believed in the trinity, but when I did find out, I believed! But there are those who refuse to believe no matter what you tell them or what the bible says. How can you think they are saved if they deny the essential fact that Jesus was fully God as well as fully Man?

Originally posted by Sparko

And your glaring hypocrisy.

Spoken like a true, full-fledged, antagonist, who gets all self-righteously critical, if someone opposes your attacks. I am not going to lie down and accept your attacks. And try to remember that your harsh criticisms came before my responses that you call 'hypocritical' when they are only strong defenses.

I couldn't care less about your "harshness" Ty. I care that you constantly go on about how heretics divide the body of Christ and condemn Christians, and yet you do it over and over. That is hypocrisy.

If my responses seem harsh, it is because you don't see your own harsh statements to me, that came first.

Be as harsh as you like, but at least be consistent with what you say you believe about hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Sparko

If anyone "talks down" to people, it is you. Your response to CP's post was typical. Pure paranoia and hubris.

Bull-dung. In my response, I acknowledge the attacks, but I in NO WAY have any fear. You, really, are offended that I am not intimidated.

Ty you go around saying things like you know more about the bible than others do. You act like nobody can teach you anything. You start threads like this one acting like you are a teacher and inviting questions. You are pompous and full of yourself. And yet when people DO ask you questions you get all defensive and start lashing out at them, calling them names and saying they are attacking you. You think everyone is out to get you. So yes, you are full of hubris and you are paranoid.

This is a debate web site. We argue and debate things here. If you don't like that, you should start your own site, where you can teach and gather all the yes-men you desire.

Originally posted by TyRockwell

I was not defending him, except to say he is a Christian. It seems I heard that some people did see Jesus. Its just like God to only let some, but not all see something.


I said that I understand the teaching, and that it is a misrepresentation to say that he denies the trinity. If you aked him, "Do you believe in the trinity?" I am quite sure he would say "Yes, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

But you won't consider that. You take the fact that he said Jesus was doing some things, living his life AS a man, and to you it seems he has denied the trinity. That is just dishonest.

no its dishonest to try to make up excuses for someone's blatent denial of the trinity as if you know what he was thinking. It's dishonest to say you 'seems you heard that some people did see Jesus' when that never happened. Nobody saw Jesus on those stages in africa. No camera caught him on film. (BH prophesied THAT would happen too!). You just keep on making excuses for false teachers, ty. That is defending them. You are defending them right here in your post!

The spirit of Jezebel, whom Jesus mentioned in Rev. 2:20-23 is a controlling spirit that tries to intimidate men of God, and control the church; and lead it into compromised religion.

And how does that equate to you calling Rum Tum a witch? A witch is a servant of Satan. You are calling her a servant of satan and saying she is not a Christian. You are condemning a sister in Christ just because you don't like her questioning the preachers on TBN and asking you some tough questions.

I don't go around stalking her from thread to thread, causing disruptions, and taking the thread off topic.

Ty, this thread was WAY off topic when she came in. In fact I TRIED to get it back on topic by asking you again what role did Jesus' divinity play in the atonement but you keep dodging that and ranting and raving about how everyone is out to get you.

That is simply self-justifying. I asked you both to stay away. You take things off topic, so to say it was already off topic, is a double indictment on you that you want it off topic. That is a controlling spirit of witchcraft.

So now taking threads off topic is witchcraft? Are you listening to yourself?

OK let's go back on topic..

I agree that Jesus was a perfect sinless man who sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven. I agree he was sinless and died on the cross for our sins and was resurrected 3 days later.

But I think it is EQUALLY important that he was God the Son. And that his being fully God played an EQUALLY important part in the atonement for our sins. And I think that if anyone denies EITHER his humanity or his divinity then they do not have the whole Christ and are lost.

Do you agree?

and what role did Jesus being God the Son play in the atonement on the cross?

I love how Hank is supposedly arrogant for being the BAM, which is simply the original title of Walter Martin, but it's okay for Ty to say that his words come from the Holy Spirit and that he fully understands Hebrews and resists instruction of any kind.

I wonder who the really arrogant one is....

Originally posted by Phoenix Fawkes

I love how Hank is supposedly arrogant for being the BAM, which is simply the original title of Walter Martin, but it's okay for Ty to say that his words come from the Holy Spirit and that he fully understands Hebrews and resists instruction of any kind.

I wonder who the really arrogant one is....

perhaps a poll?

Originally posted by Country Preacher

perhaps a poll?

I have been instructed of the Lord to ceast arguing with all you here. But I have His permission to leave this link:

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?ab...ews_iv_ctrl=-1

Go to the tab, "Its Supernatural" Television

You will be able to watch videos of miracles that happen because of the faith principles I have been telling you.