Discussion: Wayne Dyer's 10 Secrets - TheologyWeb Campus
TheologyWeb Campus TheologyWeb Campus


Hello and welcome to TheologyWeb – theology debate with a serious dose of fun! It has been our goal to create one of the best and most innovative discussion sites on the Net. Please visit our forums where we debate and discuss everything from religion, politics, lifestyle, pop culture, to who is the coolest member of the moderating team. Register now and join in the fun, its free, easy, and makes Dee Dee Warren happy.




*This site is best viewed in Mozilla Firefox with a minimum display resolution of 1024x768.

Reply

Discussion: Wayne Dyer's 10 Secrets
View First Unread
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  February 16th 2004 , 02:33 PM
 
 
 
 
 
Dyer's Ten Dumbmandments

Or, Guff from the Guru


Back in the 1980s, I recall often seeing Wayne Dyer's smiling face beaming from the covers of the "Popular Books" shelf at the public library. The self-help genre seemed of little use to me, so I never picked one up unless it was as part of my job to put one back on the shelf. Now, recently, a reader has asked us to take a look at what Dyer has to offer, in part because he makes use of the Bible in his teachings (need I tell you, that he seriously decontextualizes?). We have chosen to look at a recent work of his titled 10 Secrets for Success and Inner Peace. Our general reactions to this work can be categorized as follows:

"Well, that's good advice, but who wouldn't recommend that?" (20%)
"Gee, I do the opposite of this and I have plenty of inner peace!" (40%)
"Wayne, are you out of your gourd?" (40%)

If the latter reaction seems strong, please consider that it comes as a result of one of Dyer's premier forms of advice, which amounts to: "Just ignore or redefine the problem such that as far as you are concerned, it no longer exists." It may well be said that a person under the influence of chloroform certainly has "inner peace"; and much of Dyer's advice amounts to giving yourself a good mental dose.

And so with that preliminary described, let's take a look at some points out of Dyer's 10 bits. Note that this critique is not meant to be exhaustive -- it merely reflects what struck me most, and as also most relevant to our mission .

"Have a Mind that is Open to Everything and Attached to Nothing". Yes, really. This is just the latest version of that most famous of self-contradictory pieces of advice in the same family as, "There are no absolutes." ("Are you absolutely sure?") Dyer is wise enough not to make the contradiction mind-numbingly apparent -- he does not come out and say that there is no objective truth -- he rather encourages the reader to "open your mind to all possibilities, to resist any efforts to be pigeonholed, and to refuse to allow pessimism into your consciosuness." [5]

Dyer's reason for this advice, though, is not because of any sort of epistemic issues, but because he believes that it is the only way to achieve a peaceful world. Indeed. Is the absurdity not obvious? "Open your mind to all possibilities" (including tyranny, racism, and bigotry)? It is doubtful that Dyer wants to get that far, but once he closes the door on one system, the cat is out of the bag and runs into that door facefirst. "Resist any efforts to be pigeonholed" -- all right; there is some value in others not classifying you, though we wonder if Dyer would appreciate it if, in public libraries, his book were not put into the catalog or on the shelf with similar books, but just thrown anywhere on the floor, or down an elevator shaft, or onto the roof. "Refuse to allow pessimism into your consciousness" -- excuse me? But didn't Dyer just say to remain open in mind to ALL possibilities? And isn't pessimism one of these? The rub of this is that the average reader will probably never see this open contradiction, and Dyer probably does not either. Dyer also appeals to lack of human knowledge in a huge universe as a reason to remain open-minded [9-10], but I am sure he would have little patience with a Klansman who demanded that we should wait a bit to see if aliens from Weebo come and reveal to us that non-white races really are inferior. Or would he? He tells us in a section farther on that "everything" in his statement "means just what it says. No exceptions" -- and it is presented as a case of someone presenting that to you which conflicts with your "conditioning". You are right, Dr. Wayne. The next time a motorcycle gang stops by and suggests a rumble at the nursing home, I will fight my "conditioning" to respect the elderly and ask for a 10 foot chain!

Dyer does here offer specifics: "If someone suggests that crystals can cure hemorrhoids, that natural herbs can lower cholesterol, that people will eventually be able to breate underwater, or that levitation is possible -- listen, and be curious." Hmm. Sounds like the Roman Piso dog encouraging us to ignore classical scholarship. It is never made clear what Dyer thinks of clinical trials, testing, or research, but the fact that he quotes (more than once) as authoritative the channeled Course in Miracles lends us a hint that if it came down to a choice between a cardiologist with serious tests who recommended surgery, and a channeled spirit being who said to just go home and relax, Dyer would tell the cardiologist to take a hike. At the very least, Dyer does not say not to do this, which is at least the height of irresponsibility. One wonders if someone who tried crystals for hemorrhoids, and failed, would have any case against Dyer in court.

It is in this section that Dyer also first abuses the Scriptures, quoting Matt. 19:26b, "With God all things are possible." Note that "with" is presented as the beginning; what's missing? 19:26a, to start: "With men this is impossible" -- though Dyer gives himself a case of midrash by claiming that we must have a sense of ourself as "Godlike". Second, that Jewish background understanding that presupposes that God's will is all that permits "all things".

"Don't Die with your Music Still in You." Once he is done promoting either pantheism or panentheism [21], Dyer offers some decent advice about taking risks and chances for success. Any businessman would tell you this, but it is hard to decide just how much risk Dyer is suggesting, and whether it is as far as promoting irresponsibility. There is some value in realistic assessments of self; it accords with a Biblical understanding of humility. But Dyer goes on to insist that, "Failure is a judgment. It's just an opinion." He also implies that if you love what you do, there can be no failure. Once again we wonder if Dyer could be sued in a court of law by someone who followed this advice, and ended up, say, with boxes of spoiled salsa and bills out the door because they didn't consider themselves a failure when everyone returned their nasty-tasting salsa for a refund, even after he invested all he had in a salsa-making business. Is Dyer for real? Or does he perhaps realize that he is safe giving advice that few will follow, and that those who do follow it will simply evade their failures by redefining what a "failure" is in context? "I am not a failure! I am very good at making bad salsa!"

When reading Dyer, it seems that it is best not to think too deeply -- and the same could be said when applying his advice as well.

"You Can't Give Away What You Don't Have" -- more common sense on a roll? More or less. Here though we learn that Dyer believes in magical "energies" that the universe responds to; if you are a demanding person, the universe responds with "demanding energies" and will petulantly send demanding people your way to teach you a lesson. We're wondering when Dyer is going to put some of these "energies" into a test tube for us, whether he'll provide a systematic study showing that demanding people as a whole get demanding people put on them all the time, and finally whether this isn't just same ad hoc excuse Dyer cooked up based on nothing (or at best, anecdotes). On the other hand, Dyer's advice to be less self-concerned has been the advocacy of Christianity, to say nothing of the collectivists of the ancient and modern thousands of times longer than his books have been on the shelf.

"Embrace Silence" -- I can relate here. Dyer pleads for us to escape the noise of the city and get into the sounds of nature; to moderate stimulus is again just good common sense. On the other hand it's hard not to ruin the magic. Dyer recommends the usual mantra sounds like "ahhhh" and "ommmm" and maybe even "yeeeech": for the first we are assured, it is in "virtually all names of the divine" and he lists Krishna, Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah (apparently not aware this is a version of the second!), Ra, and Ptah [56]. Don't mess things up by asking where to find that sound in Visnhu, Thor, Odin, Loki, Isis, Osiris, or Zeus, though. Also, if you were wondering why the guy ahead of you didn't move at the green light, Dyer helpfully tells us it was him meditating [57]. Finally we have another Bible abuse quote: "That which is seen, hath not come from that which doth appear." It is abused to tell us not to divulge the "private insights" of what we intend to create. The real context Heb. 11:3, says "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" -- a statement that has of course to do with the creation process of Genesis.

"Give Up Your Personal History" -- Good advice to let go of the past. Ironically Dyer is here telling us to be more like the ancients, who were very present-oriented. However, they also valued the past more than the future.

"You Can't Solve a Problem with the Same Mind That Created It" -- If you think I was kidding about Dyer's advice to redefine problems out of existence, this will prove it: "In the world of Spirit, or God, problems simply don't exist and aren't real." [86] "If you change your mind, you will solve your problem." But then, in direct contradiction to the advice to remain open to "all" possibilities in point 1, we are told to "bring truth" to problems to resolve them. Then again we are told, "By actually rewriting your agreement with reality, you can change your mind and send away any perceived problem." [88] That apparently includes the problem of open self-contradiction.
What Dyer offers is a "mystical consciousness" -- perhaps what he is striving for is the answer, "All things work for good for those who love God." In that respect, one can see problems not as "unreal" but as something real which a greater reality will subsume.

"There are no Justified Resentments" -- Good advice to become someone who can't be offended -- assuming that this does not mean, getting rid of your sense of justice. Dyer is never quite clear on this, though the examples he gives of things not to be offended by (a sneeze, someone cursing) seem mostly trivial. Most of the section though speaks of those unverified "energies" Dyer sees running around loose in the universe. We do have news for him: "Love your enemies" was already said -- though what Dyer calls "love" is not what the Bible calls it.

"Treat Yourself As If You Already Are What You'd Like to Be" -- hmmm. In certain places, this advice is called egotism. You can imagine what the media would have said, had George W. treated himself like President before he was elected and started demanding Secret Service protection (or hired lookalikes), showing up at international conferences next to Bill Clinton, and submitted a budget to Capitol Hill. But Dyer does not quite encourage that; for example, while he tells you that if you have a dream car, you should paste pictures of it on your fridge, visit a showroom and sit in it and walk all around it and even feel it, take it for a test drive, and visualize your entitlement to it, he doesn't advocate, thank heavens, just taking it. He says, do all this, talk about it a lot, leave a picture of it on your computer, etc. Hmmm. In certain places, isn't this advice otherwise called a childish obsession?

In the end, Dyer subscribes to the "you create reality" paradigm -- and he claims it "works for virtually everything." Note that sly qualifier. Before he speaks to an audience, he sees them as "loving, supportive, and having a terrific experience." Now isn't that a setup that smells? He already has a plan for in case you get unhappy and throw tomatoes (he did say, "virtually" everything); and how does one decide whether the audience was supportive because (after all) Dyer's message is so mushy and unoffensive and sentimentalist and ear-tickling, and whether it was supportive because Dyer waved his magic brain lobe (where they would all have thrown tomatoes, had he not done this)? Fidel Castro wants to know if this will work for him when he goes to the UN.

"Treasure Your Divinity" -- uh oh. Yep. This is how it is: "When you dip your glass into the ocean, what you have is a glass of God. It's not as big or as strong, but it's still God." I wonder if Dyer affirms, "When you use the toilet..." Anyway, Dyer here stumps for his apparent panentheism as something to remind yourself of to keep yourself happy. Personally I find it a little insulting to suppose that I am God and so is what my pomeranian/poodle did outside this morning.

"Wisdom is Avoiding All Thoughts That Weaken You" -- Dyer seems to have stretched to get to 10. This is the same advice as has been given all through the book, which amounts to, "Redefine everything so that you can be happy." Not shockingly, Dyer says that shame and guilt are the thoughts that most weaken you, which will come as amazing news to the 70% of the world that is still "honor and shame" in orientation, so that in essence Dyer has insulted over 70% of the world today, and 99.9% of the world throughout history, is/has been weakening itself physically and emotionally in the worst way, and are all weak people for using shame to reform others [149]. The arrogance of modern Westerners is a sight to behold.

So what to say, in conclusion? Dyer is quite the ear-tickler, but we have to wonder what he'll do for a living if the readers ever wake up. We'll have a look at another of his books some other time.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Troy is offline
Troy is caught in the Matrix. Caught In The Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
 
Posts: 32
Join Date: March 24th, 2004
Spam: 0 | Anti-Spam: 41
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  March 24th 2004 , 02:57 PM
 
 
 
 
Deceptions of Wayne Dyer - Teaching How to Feel Good
He believe the source of all things is the source of INTENTION. But he is unable to say that source is Jesus Christ, none other. Wayne also says and assumes that we are one with the source. And it is the belief that we are one with the source that lets us connects with the source. But my view as received by God's Spirit, is that God says we are not connected and that we need to get connected by believing in His Son.
Wayne also says that if we are not feeling good, that we are disconnected. He is really judging our feelings like a psychologist working his ability around them to make them positive. The truth is that we can not do this, for we are using our self-life power to achieve an objective, a perceived intention, to reach some unascertained ultimate, really. Yet such feelings of a feeling that are negative are real and authentic since feelings have both their negative and positive side. Such a feeling has its role and purpose, and it will even be used by the evil spirit to gain a foothold on us, so we must realize who it is we are really at war with in spiritual warfare.
If a person has a sad feeling, feel sad. For it is not feeling that is our guiding principle, but it is spirit, and a spirit in Christ with the Holy Spirit indwelt. Feelings can easily deceive. But Wayne's suggestion is to almost "pretend" self-positivism and it will then manifest. By imagining that which you want, you shall have it, he says. Yet, by his words, grace is not a consideration, the grace of God, in this dispensation of grace. We create our own reality, he says. Contemplate ourselves around these conditions to achieve them, he says. And the essence of this is connecting to the vibrating source energy in vibrational harmony of the highest energy in the universe, he says. Yet how is this possible, I pray, if there is a rejection of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for you? How can we reject the man who said he was the "First and the Last" and the One who died and rose again (Rev. 1.18), and who said "I AM" as God of the Old Testament said. For in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (John 1.1) Jesus Christ.
It is impossible to make such a statement and then seek a profit, even one cent.
Do not believe Wayne, in his claim, that too feel good is to feel God with an extra "o", for God never reaches you through your feelings, but through your spirit (in your inner man), and even if you feel bad, is this really so bad, but it is another opportunity for your faith in Christ to be tested. Wayne presumes already our connection with God, but what we learn is that a man who says he believes in God is not the same as another person who says he believes in God, since the former does not believe in Jesus Christ as God in the flesh and the latter does.
What is Wayne Dyer really doing? First off, obviously Wayne Dyer is not a Christian. Secondly, he is depersonalizing the three Persons of the Godhead into a vibrating energy impersonally, attempting to degrade and define or dissect God, or make Him but a "field of energy" as he puts it, not keeping the Creator and the created separate. For such a separation is necessary in order for us to come closer. In the eternity of future, salvation is God's gift to those who believe - with God and the Lamb at the center of the New City in the New Heaven and those who are saved as pillars in the city (Rev. 21 and 22.1,4).
Wayne is using his vast talent for goodness and great concepts, but the reality is that he is not exalting Jesus Christ but another god. Wayne in so doing, is really exalting himself and his talents, even for profit of book sales. His guiding principle is an energy level and the "good self", his own standard. He keeps saying, "be positive, be positive" and you will be positive, is the essence of his teaching. How much more beautiful if what he did was for Christ and not for hostility towards the Son of God, and nothing less than who He is, God in the Second Person, resurrected who was forever in the past and forever in the future. Not even once does he glorify God in such a way. What are we to think?
The reality of truth in Jesus Christ, is that God does not operate this way in what I like to call "positivism" or as Wayne Dyer calls it, "7 fields of intention" or "summoning power". Wayne uses the terms "sorcery" of the "sorcerer", always taking away God's 3 Persons, a belated attempt, for it is sorcerers that try to access fields of energy of a non-descript sorcerer. This is really a self-summoning, self-convincing, self-inspiring without the grace of God. Talent can make it look authentic.
True faith lasts forever and receives true grace. We can not force ourselves to be that which we are not for it is like covering up sin, or trying to override God. No mention of sin and the law is identified as the cause of separation by Wayne, which is not a self-identifying law, but the law of God. Self-convincing is never a means of receiving the grace of a conscience in Christ.
Watchman Nee said it best, that a Wayne Dyer type would be a man operating in the "latent power of his soul" though unsaved. Wayne Dyer has not received a dividing of his spirit, soul and body to walk after the spirit because God has not given Wayne Dyer the gift of the Holy Spirit to do such a dividing that comes through spiritual life from receiving eternal life. But this should not be surprising since all Dyer is doing is rejecting Christ and accessing a vibrating source of the evil spirit for self-actualization sugar-coated reasonings, famous quotes, and displays, that of false prophets, as refined as any man can be with no consideration of men who were for God or not for God in their contemplation - that is, God of the Bible. It is not in Wayne Dyer's consciousness to realize that the Hebrews were the first nation God revealed Himself to after the fall.
To observe how separated from God men are and how hard it will be to truly believe according to John 6.47 (to simply believe, such a simple acceptance of the one who made you) by the fact that so few come to Christ, all we need to do is turn to the Word of God and God's plan for the new city. When I discern which of the four major groups opposed to Christ, the category that Wayne Dyer falls under is Thomasines - New Agers. As Solomon, the wisest of men in the Bible, said in Ecclesiastes, "Nothing under the sun is truly new. What can you point to hat is truly new? How do you know it didn't already exist long ago? (v.9). Such men were here before, and they will come again. They will be forgotten as hard as they try in vain to be remembered (v.11),
Troy Brooks



 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  March 25th 2004 , 06:49 AM
 
In reply to this post by Troy
 
 
 
People who seem most-edified by their faith/discipline are those who at some point, and some degree, learn to gently push aside ego/ordinary thoughts.

Why would the Creator care if you got his name wrong?

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
WSCEBU is offline
WSCEBU Freshman
Currently Unavailable
 
 
Posts: 2
Join Date: March 26th, 2004
Spam: 0 | Anti-Spam: 0
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  March 26th 2004 , 04:11 AM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by jpholding
Dyer's Ten Dumbmandments

Or, Guff from the Guru


Back in the 1980s, I recall often seeing Wayne Dyer's smiling face beaming from the covers of the "Popular Books" shelf at the public library. The self-help genre seemed of little use to me, so I never picked one up unless it was as part of my job to put one back on the shelf. Now, recently, a reader has asked us to take a look at what Dyer has to offer, in part because he makes use of the Bible in his teachings (need I tell you, that he seriously decontextualizes?). We have chosen to look at a recent work of his titled 10 Secrets for Success and Inner Peace. Our general reactions to this work can be categorized as follows:

"Well, that's good advice, but who wouldn't recommend that?" (20%)
"Gee, I do the opposite of this and I have plenty of inner peace!" (40%)
"Wayne, are you out of your gourd?" (40%)

If the latter reaction seems strong, please consider that it comes as a result of one of Dyer's premier forms of advice, which amounts to: "Just ignore or redefine the problem such that as far as you are concerned, it no longer exists." It may well be said that a person under the influence of chloroform certainly has "inner peace"; and much of Dyer's advice amounts to giving yourself a good mental dose.

And so with that preliminary described, let's take a look at some points out of Dyer's 10 bits. Note that this critique is not meant to be exhaustive -- it merely reflects what struck me most, and as also most relevant to our mission .

"Have a Mind that is Open to Everything and Attached to Nothing". Yes, really. This is just the latest version of that most famous of self-contradictory pieces of advice in the same family as, "There are no absolutes." ("Are you absolutely sure?") Dyer is wise enough not to make the contradiction mind-numbingly apparent -- he does not come out and say that there is no objective truth -- he rather encourages the reader to "open your mind to all possibilities, to resist any efforts to be pigeonholed, and to refuse to allow pessimism into your consciosuness." [5]

Dyer's reason for this advice, though, is not because of any sort of epistemic issues, but because he believes that it is the only way to achieve a peaceful world. Indeed. Is the absurdity not obvious? "Open your mind to all possibilities" (including tyranny, racism, and bigotry)? It is doubtful that Dyer wants to get that far, but once he closes the door on one system, the cat is out of the bag and runs into that door facefirst. "Resist any efforts to be pigeonholed" -- all right; there is some value in others not classifying you, though we wonder if Dyer would appreciate it if, in public libraries, his book were not put into the catalog or on the shelf with similar books, but just thrown anywhere on the floor, or down an elevator shaft, or onto the roof. "Refuse to allow pessimism into your consciousness" -- excuse me? But didn't Dyer just say to remain open in mind to ALL possibilities? And isn't pessimism one of these? The rub of this is that the average reader will probably never see this open contradiction, and Dyer probably does not either. Dyer also appeals to lack of human knowledge in a huge universe as a reason to remain open-minded [9-10], but I am sure he would have little patience with a Klansman who demanded that we should wait a bit to see if aliens from Weebo come and reveal to us that non-white races really are inferior. Or would he? He tells us in a section farther on that "everything" in his statement "means just what it says. No exceptions" -- and it is presented as a case of someone presenting that to you which conflicts with your "conditioning". You are right, Dr. Wayne. The next time a motorcycle gang stops by and suggests a rumble at the nursing home, I will fight my "conditioning" to respect the elderly and ask for a 10 foot chain!

Dyer does here offer specifics: "If someone suggests that crystals can cure hemorrhoids, that natural herbs can lower cholesterol, that people will eventually be able to breate underwater, or that levitation is possible -- listen, and be curious." Hmm. Sounds like the Roman Piso dog encouraging us to ignore classical scholarship. It is never made clear what Dyer thinks of clinical trials, testing, or research, but the fact that he quotes (more than once) as authoritative the channeled Course in Miracles lends us a hint that if it came down to a choice between a cardiologist with serious tests who recommended surgery, and a channeled spirit being who said to just go home and relax, Dyer would tell the cardiologist to take a hike. At the very least, Dyer does not say not to do this, which is at least the height of irresponsibility. One wonders if someone who tried crystals for hemorrhoids, and failed, would have any case against Dyer in court.

It is in this section that Dyer also first abuses the Scriptures, quoting Matt. 19:26b, "With God all things are possible." Note that "with" is presented as the beginning; what's missing? 19:26a, to start: "With men this is impossible" -- though Dyer gives himself a case of midrash by claiming that we must have a sense of ourself as "Godlike". Second, that Jewish background understanding that presupposes that God's will is all that permits "all things".

"Don't Die with your Music Still in You." Once he is done promoting either pantheism or panentheism [21], Dyer offers some decent advice about taking risks and chances for success. Any businessman would tell you this, but it is hard to decide just how much risk Dyer is suggesting, and whether it is as far as promoting irresponsibility. There is some value in realistic assessments of self; it accords with a Biblical understanding of humility. But Dyer goes on to insist that, "Failure is a judgment. It's just an opinion." He also implies that if you love what you do, there can be no failure. Once again we wonder if Dyer could be sued in a court of law by someone who followed this advice, and ended up, say, with boxes of spoiled salsa and bills out the door because they didn't consider themselves a failure when everyone returned their nasty-tasting salsa for a refund, even after he invested all he had in a salsa-making business. Is Dyer for real? Or does he perhaps realize that he is safe giving advice that few will follow, and that those who do follow it will simply evade their failures by redefining what a "failure" is in context? "I am not a failure! I am very good at making bad salsa!"

When reading Dyer, it seems that it is best not to think too deeply -- and the same could be said when applying his advice as well.

"You Can't Give Away What You Don't Have" -- more common sense on a roll? More or less. Here though we learn that Dyer believes in magical "energies" that the universe responds to; if you are a demanding person, the universe responds with "demanding energies" and will petulantly send demanding people your way to teach you a lesson. We're wondering when Dyer is going to put some of these "energies" into a test tube for us, whether he'll provide a systematic study showing that demanding people as a whole get demanding people put on them all the time, and finally whether this isn't just same ad hoc excuse Dyer cooked up based on nothing (or at best, anecdotes). On the other hand, Dyer's advice to be less self-concerned has been the advocacy of Christianity, to say nothing of the collectivists of the ancient and modern thousands of times longer than his books have been on the shelf.

"Embrace Silence" -- I can relate here. Dyer pleads for us to escape the noise of the city and get into the sounds of nature; to moderate stimulus is again just good common sense. On the other hand it's hard not to ruin the magic. Dyer recommends the usual mantra sounds like "ahhhh" and "ommmm" and maybe even "yeeeech": for the first we are assured, it is in "virtually all names of the divine" and he lists Krishna, Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah (apparently not aware this is a version of the second!), Ra, and Ptah [56]. Don't mess things up by asking where to find that sound in Visnhu, Thor, Odin, Loki, Isis, Osiris, or Zeus, though. Also, if you were wondering why the guy ahead of you didn't move at the green light, Dyer helpfully tells us it was him meditating [57]. Finally we have another Bible abuse quote: "That which is seen, hath not come from that which doth appear." It is abused to tell us not to divulge the "private insights" of what we intend to create. The real context Heb. 11:3, says "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" -- a statement that has of course to do with the creation process of Genesis.

"Give Up Your Personal History" -- Good advice to let go of the past. Ironically Dyer is here telling us to be more like the ancients, who were very present-oriented. However, they also valued the past more than the future.

"You Can't Solve a Problem with the Same Mind That Created It" -- If you think I was kidding about Dyer's advice to redefine problems out of existence, this will prove it: "In the world of Spirit, or God, problems simply don't exist and aren't real." [86] "If you change your mind, you will solve your problem." But then, in direct contradiction to the advice to remain open to "all" possibilities in point 1, we are told to "bring truth" to problems to resolve them. Then again we are told, "By actually rewriting your agreement with reality, you can change your mind and send away any perceived problem." [88] That apparently includes the problem of open self-contradiction.
What Dyer offers is a "mystical consciousness" -- perhaps what he is striving for is the answer, "All things work for good for those who love God." In that respect, one can see problems not as "unreal" but as something real which a greater reality will subsume.

"There are no Justified Resentments" -- Good advice to become someone who can't be offended -- assuming that this does not mean, getting rid of your sense of justice. Dyer is never quite clear on this, though the examples he gives of things not to be offended by (a sneeze, someone cursing) seem mostly trivial. Most of the section though speaks of those unverified "energies" Dyer sees running around loose in the universe. We do have news for him: "Love your enemies" was already said -- though what Dyer calls "love" is not what the Bible calls it.

"Treat Yourself As If You Already Are What You'd Like to Be" -- hmmm. In certain places, this advice is called egotism. You can imagine what the media would have said, had George W. treated himself like President before he was elected and started demanding Secret Service protection (or hired lookalikes), showing up at international conferences next to Bill Clinton, and submitted a budget to Capitol Hill. But Dyer does not quite encourage that; for example, while he tells you that if you have a dream car, you should paste pictures of it on your fridge, visit a showroom and sit in it and walk all around it and even feel it, take it for a test drive, and visualize your entitlement to it, he doesn't advocate, thank heavens, just taking it. He says, do all this, talk about it a lot, leave a picture of it on your computer, etc. Hmmm. In certain places, isn't this advice otherwise called a childish obsession?

In the end, Dyer subscribes to the "you create reality" paradigm -- and he claims it "works for virtually everything." Note that sly qualifier. Before he speaks to an audience, he sees them as "loving, supportive, and having a terrific experience." Now isn't that a setup that smells? He already has a plan for in case you get unhappy and throw tomatoes (he did say, "virtually" everything); and how does one decide whether the audience was supportive because (after all) Dyer's message is so mushy and unoffensive and sentimentalist and ear-tickling, and whether it was supportive because Dyer waved his magic brain lobe (where they would all have thrown tomatoes, had he not done this)? Fidel Castro wants to know if this will work for him when he goes to the UN.

"Treasure Your Divinity" -- uh oh. Yep. This is how it is: "When you dip your glass into the ocean, what you have is a glass of God. It's not as big or as strong, but it's still God." I wonder if Dyer affirms, "When you use the toilet..." Anyway, Dyer here stumps for his apparent panentheism as something to remind yourself of to keep yourself happy. Personally I find it a little insulting to suppose that I am God and so is what my pomeranian/poodle did outside this morning.

"Wisdom is Avoiding All Thoughts That Weaken You" -- Dyer seems to have stretched to get to 10. This is the same advice as has been given all through the book, which amounts to, "Redefine everything so that you can be happy." Not shockingly, Dyer says that shame and guilt are the thoughts that most weaken you, which will come as amazing news to the 70% of the world that is still "honor and shame" in orientation, so that in essence Dyer has insulted over 70% of the world today, and 99.9% of the world throughout history, is/has been weakening itself physically and emotionally in the worst way, and are all weak people for using shame to reform others [149]. The arrogance of modern Westerners is a sight to behold.

So what to say, in conclusion? Dyer is quite the ear-tickler, but we have to wonder what he'll do for a living if the readers ever wake up. We'll have a look at another of his books some other time.

 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
WSCEBU is offline
WSCEBU Freshman
Currently Unavailable
 
 
Posts: 2
Join Date: March 26th, 2004
Spam: 0 | Anti-Spam: 0
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  March 26th 2004 , 04:14 AM
 
In reply to this post by Troy
 
 
 
Originally posted by Troy
Deceptions of Wayne Dyer - Teaching How to Feel Good




He believe the source of all things is the source of INTENTION. But he is unable to say that source is Jesus Christ, none other. Wayne also says and assumes that we are one with the source. And it is the belief that we are one with the source that lets us connects with the source. But my view as received by God's Spirit, is that God says we are not connected and that we need to get connected by believing in His Son.

Wayne also says that if we are not feeling good, that we are disconnected. He is really judging our feelings like a psychologist working his ability around them to make them positive. The truth is that we can not do this, for we are using our self-life power to achieve an objective, a perceived intention, to reach some unascertained ultimate, really. Yet such feelings of a feeling that are negative are real and authentic since feelings have both their negative and positive side. Such a feeling has its role and purpose, and it will even be used by the evil spirit to gain a foothold on us, so we must realize who it is we are really at war with in spiritual warfare.

If a person has a sad feeling, feel sad. For it is not feeling that is our guiding principle, but it is spirit, and a spirit in Christ with the Holy Spirit indwelt. Feelings can easily deceive. But Wayne's suggestion is to almost "pretend" self-positivism and it will then manifest. By imagining that which you want, you shall have it, he says. Yet, by his words, grace is not a consideration, the grace of God, in this dispensation of grace. We create our own reality, he says. Contemplate ourselves around these conditions to achieve them, he says. And the essence of this is connecting to the vibrating source energy in vibrational harmony of the highest energy in the universe, he says. Yet how is this possible, I pray, if there is a rejection of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for you? How can we reject the man who said he was the "First and the Last" and the One who died and rose again (Rev. 1.18), and who said "I AM" as God of the Old Testament said. For in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. (John 1.1) Jesus Christ.

It is impossible to make such a statement and then seek a profit, even one cent.

Do not believe Wayne, in his claim, that too feel good is to feel God with an extra "o", for God never reaches you through your feelings, but through your spirit (in your inner man), and even if you feel bad, is this really so bad, but it is another opportunity for your faith in Christ to be tested. Wayne presumes already our connection with God, but what we learn is that a man who says he believes in God is not the same as another person who says he believes in God, since the former does not believe in Jesus Christ as God in the flesh and the latter does.

What is Wayne Dyer really doing? First off, obviously Wayne Dyer is not a Christian. Secondly, he is depersonalizing the three Persons of the Godhead into a vibrating energy impersonally, attempting to degrade and define or dissect God, or make Him but a "field of energy" as he puts it, not keeping the Creator and the created separate. For such a separation is necessary in order for us to come closer. In the eternity of future, salvation is God's gift to those who believe - with God and the Lamb at the center of the New City in the New Heaven and those who are saved as pillars in the city (Rev. 21 and 22.1,4).

Wayne is using his vast talent for goodness and great concepts, but the reality is that he is not exalting Jesus Christ but another god. Wayne in so doing, is really exalting himself and his talents, even for profit of book sales. His guiding principle is an energy level and the "good self", his own standard. He keeps saying, "be positive, be positive" and you will be positive, is the essence of his teaching. How much more beautiful if what he did was for Christ and not for hostility towards the Son of God, and nothing less than who He is, God in the Second Person, resurrected who was forever in the past and forever in the future. Not even once does he glorify God in such a way. What are we to think?

The reality of truth in Jesus Christ, is that God does not operate this way in what I like to call "positivism" or as Wayne Dyer calls it, "7 fields of intention" or "summoning power". Wayne uses the terms "sorcery" of the "sorcerer", always taking away God's 3 Persons, a belated attempt, for it is sorcerers that try to access fields of energy of a non-descript sorcerer. This is really a self-summoning, self-convincing, self-inspiring without the grace of God. Talent can make it look authentic.

True faith lasts forever and receives true grace. We can not force ourselves to be that which we are not for it is like covering up sin, or trying to override God. No mention of sin and the law is identified as the cause of separation by Wayne, which is not a self-identifying law, but the law of God. Self-convincing is never a means of receiving the grace of a conscience in Christ.

Watchman Nee said it best, that a Wayne Dyer type would be a man operating in the "latent power of his soul" though unsaved. Wayne Dyer has not received a dividing of his spirit, soul and body to walk after the spirit because God has not given Wayne Dyer the gift of the Holy Spirit to do such a dividing that comes through spiritual life from receiving eternal life. But this should not be surprising since all Dyer is doing is rejecting Christ and accessing a vibrating source of the evil spirit for self-actualization sugar-coated reasonings, famous quotes, and displays, that of false prophets, as refined as any man can be with no consideration of men who were for God or not for God in their contemplation - that is, God of the Bible. It is not in Wayne Dyer's consciousness to realize that the Hebrews were the first nation God revealed Himself to after the fall.

To observe how separated from God men are and how hard it will be to truly believe according to John 6.47 (to simply believe, such a simple acceptance of the one who made you) by the fact that so few come to Christ, all we need to do is turn to the Word of God and God's plan for the new city. When I discern which of the four major groups opposed to Christ, the category that Wayne Dyer falls under is Thomasines - New Agers. As Solomon, the wisest of men in the Bible, said in Ecclesiastes, "Nothing under the sun is truly new. What can you point to hat is truly new? How do you know it didn't already exist long ago? (v.9). Such men were here before, and they will come again. They will be forgotten as hard as they try in vain to be remembered (v.11),

Troy Brooks




 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  March 26th 2004 , 07:09 AM
 
In reply to this post by Troy
 
 
 
Originally posted by Troy
Deceptions of Wayne Dyer - Teaching How to Feel Good
Feelings can easily deceive.
The personal experience of Christ is so much more convincing than academic and intellectual discussions!--JPHolding

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  March 26th 2004 , 02:07 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Lazy Agnostic
The personal experience of Christ is so much more convincing than academic and intellectual discussions!--JPHolding
Oops. You fell for it, LA.

The part you refer to was written FOR me by Glenn Miller when he edited that article.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  March 28th 2004 , 07:26 AM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by jpholding
Oops. You fell for it, LA.

The part you refer to was written FOR me by Glenn Miller when he edited that article.
"...fell for it..." implies intentional deception. Surely you don't intend to deceive.

Certainly there is a psychological component to your faith.

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  March 29th 2004 , 02:24 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Lazy Agnostic
"...fell for it..." implies intentional deception. Surely you don't intend to deceive.
Originally I didn't. But I decided to use that article intact as a challenge to persons who claimed to be able to parse the NT and OT into different authorial pieces. So far no one has taken that bait, though it has been fun watching people take Miller's words as my own. (BTW I "agree" with him in terms of what is found more "convincing" by most people, though I consider the state of our society that makes this so, appalling.)

Certainly there is a psychological component to your faith.
"Psychology" is a very broad term.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  April 12th 2004 , 06:07 PM
 
 
 
 
Why are Dyer's notions spiritually efficacious for people?

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  April 13th 2004 , 02:49 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Lazy Agnostic
Why are Dyer's notions spiritually efficacious for people?
For the same reason that cocaine is physically efficacious for people.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  April 13th 2004 , 04:58 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by jpholding
For the same reason that cocaine is physically efficacious for people.
No, really.

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  April 14th 2004 , 01:22 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Lazy Agnostic
No, really.
I was serious.

Efficacy can be measured in terms of real and actual help, and what one THINKS helps. In the case of Dyer, he "solves" people's problems by telling them to define the problem out of existence. We are left with the rest of those who are non-Dyerites having to deal with the problems Dyerites pretend don't exist.

The illsutration of Dyer sitting oblivious at an intersection while others honk their horn at him is more apt than he realizes.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  April 29th 2004 , 02:09 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by jpholding
I was serious.

Efficacy can be measured in terms of real and actual help, and what one THINKS helps. In the case of Dyer, he "solves" people's problems by telling them to define the problem out of existence. We are left with the rest of those who are non-Dyerites having to deal with the problems Dyerites pretend don't exist.

The illsutration of Dyer sitting oblivious at an intersection while others honk their horn at him is more apt than he realizes.
I didn't get the impression of 'closing one's eyes' to the existence of problems, rather a reassignment of personal/psyche energy regarding them---much as occurs when people of faith give their burdens to God.

Isn't there an intrinsic mechanism which imparts a sense of safety when humans learn to gently push-aside ego/ordinary thoughts---irrespective of theological underpinnings? That would account for the sense of spirititual/existential connection reported with the same degree of certitude as do Christians. It would be a gift/tool for us all, whether or not we swerve into the 'right' faith.

There will always be those who will come along and try to sell us what we can have for free.

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
jpholding is offline
jpholding Making Marital Music
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Toonist  |  Raw Meat  
Posts: 15,312
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 1008 | Anti-Spam: 3535
Pearls: 1417
 
Old
  April 29th 2004 , 03:38 PM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by Lazy Agnostic
I didn't get the impression of 'closing one's eyes' to the existence of problems, rather a reassignment of personal/psyche energy regarding them---much as occurs when people of faith give their burdens to God.
I consider both to be the same thing in different means: Whether one calls it "reassignment" or "giving it to God," it amounts to ignoring the problem and doing nothing about it. (I see no warrant in the Bible for that sort of thing, BTW.)

Isn't there an intrinsic mechanism which imparts a sense of safety when humans learn to gently push-aside ego/ordinary thoughts---irrespective of theological underpinnings?

Perhaps; but to me this amounts to closing your eyes so that you don't see the starving peasants. Ignorance is bliss, as is said.

 
  Letterman: gym debate particpant - Issue reason: eats atheists for breakfast Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: May 2006 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     

http://www.tektoonics.com

Due to rampant stupidity by Skeptics, and time issues, I'm only going to be on TWeb in my own (tektonics.org) section from now on. Deal with it.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Lazy Agnostic is offline
Lazy Agnostic is caught in the Matrix. is caught in the Matrix.
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  agnostic  |  pragmatic  
Posts: 2,393
Join Date: March 7th, 2003
Spam: 312 | Anti-Spam: 252
Pearls: 663
 
Old
  April 30th 2004 , 05:50 AM
 
 
 
 
Originally posted by jpholding
I consider both to be the same thing in different means: Whether one calls it "reassignment" or "giving it to God," it amounts to ignoring the problem and doing nothing about it. (I see no warrant in the Bible for that sort of thing, BTW.)
Again, we're not talking about 'closing one's eyes' to the existence of problems. Do you not believe that Jesus ought to be, as Charles Stanley just said, our strength and our refuge? Isn't that better than relying on one's ability to accurately describe the balance of Creation at any given moment?

Isn't there an intrinsic mechanism which imparts a sense of safety when humans learn to gently push-aside ego/ordinary thoughts---irrespective of theological underpinnings?

Perhaps; but to me this amounts to closing your eyes so that you don't see the starving peasants.
Do you think starving peasants should be a priority for Christians?

I'm talking about an (aptly-called) sense of coming home reported by those who learn to push-aside ego in deference to the Creator.

Ignorance is bliss, as is said.
There's a bit of bliss in the wisdom of insecurity.

 
    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 

« Previous Thread   |   Post New Thread   |   Next Thread »


 
Forum Jump  

Page generated in 1.30784 seconds with 14 queries