I just thought of this today. Maybe the rest of you have thought of this, but I had not until today.

Throughout the Old Testament, we read of God forgiving iniquity, forgiving sin, not reckoning it against us. In Judaism today, they reject Christ for many reasons, but at least one would seem to be that the Messiah is going to set up a physical kingdom and overthrow the oppressors of the Jews (at Christ's time--the Romans). And thus he could not die, for that would leave them with no Messiah. Here is my point:
God is just and holy. He must punish sin. He cannot allow sin to go unpunished. He hates sin, and cannot look on it. But the OT, which the Jew would affirm, says he forgave sins. On what basis? How could he have forgiven David's sin? How come David did not receive eternal damnation? The modern day Jew apart from Christ can have no answer, for no one could be saved in that scenario. Everyone would have to suffer eternity in Hell. But Christianity, the only true continuation of Judaism, provides the answer in Christ.

Romans 3:25--...whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed...

God could pass over those sins, because he demonstrated his righteousness by punishing his sin for the sins of his people in the Old Testament. The Messiah had to die for the sins of the OT (as well as the NT). There was no other way for God to be just and righteous. Our God is just and righteous. The God of present day Judaism is not. But the great news, recently celebrated, is that Christ did not stay dead. He rose! We have a risen Savior. If the Messiah did not die and rise again, we have an unjust and unrighteous God. But thanks be to God, Christ died, he rose again, and God is just, righteous, and holy, holy, holy, and the whole earth is filled with his glory.

Joel

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard that some rabbis believed there would be two Messiah's on account of such passages that are found in Is53 etc.

Nice post, btw.

It's been quite awhile, but back when I used to browse anti-missionary sites, I was given the impression that sacrifice (at least in the eyes of certain liberal Jews today) is almost secondary to sincere repentance.

Of course in Christianity, Christ provided the eternal sacrifice (we provide the repentance) which was a fulfillment of animal sacrifice - a foreshadowing of what was to come.

-God bless-

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard that some rabbis believed there would be two Messiah's on account of such passages that are found in Is53 etc.

I don't know. I haven't really ever heard of such a thing, but it could very well be possible.

Nice post, btw.

Thanks a bunch.

It's been quite awhile, but back when I used to browse anti-missionary sites, I was given the impression that sacrifice (at least in the eyes of certain liberal Jews today) is almost secondary to sincere repentance.

Of course in Christianity, Christ provided the eternal sacrifice (we provide the repentance) which was a fulfillment of animal sacrifice - a foreshadowing of what was to come.

-God bless-

Yes, all very true.

Maybe I'll run across a practicing Jew someday and get him to answer this question for me.

Joel

hello all.
i saw a post about the idea of two messiahs. and i thought i would share what i know on the subject. there are some jews who thought there would be two messiahs, a priestly and a kingly one. John the baptist was thought to have maybe been the priestly messiah, there are a group of gnostics still around today to think of him as such. Jesus was thought to be a kingly messiah, but in the jewish sense, they both failed thier task because....they died.
Some believe the kingly messiah would free israel from the bonds of rome and that the priestly messiah would die a really horrible death which is portrayed in isaiah ...
some interesting but questionable study books on the subject are a couple of books on the truths of freemasonry, specifically the books, the hiram key and also the second messiah.

As far as jesus is concerned...whenever the transfiguration on the mountain happened infront of some of his disciples..he was cloaked in white and declared a priest after the order of melchiezidek...or however you spell it :) ....so he took on both roles...but after jesus dies, the messiah title is passed on...considering its a birth right. David and Solomon were both messiahs (annointed kings). In the gospel of Thomas...there is a passage that says "Lord, after you leave, who should we go to?" and Jesus responds "Go to James the Just, for it is for him that heaven and earth came into exsistence"...James the Just was the brother of the Lord...a messiah by birth right, and in Acts it says hes a bishop of the congregation of Jerusalem... follow all of that?