Christmas - TheologyWeb Campus
TheologyWeb Campus TheologyWeb Campus


Hello and welcome to TheologyWeb – theology debate with a serious dose of fun! It has been our goal to create one of the best and most innovative discussion sites on the Net. Please visit our forums where we debate and discuss everything from religion, politics, lifestyle, pop culture, to who is the coolest member of the moderating team. Register now and join in the fun, its free, easy, and makes Dee Dee Warren happy.




*This site is best viewed in Mozilla Firefox with a minimum display resolution of 1024x768.

Reply

Christmas
View First Unread
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 06:40 AM
 
 
 
 
 
Is Christmas Christian?

Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Solly is offline
Solly Ex-twebber
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Christian (other)  |  social democrat  
Posts: 15,056
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 20455 | Anti-Spam: 2226
Pearls: 368
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 06:43 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
It's as Christian as you want to make it.

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: March 2004 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 06:57 AM
 
In reply to this post by Solly
 
 
 
Originally posted by Solly
It's as Christian as you want to make it.
Intresting, but if it is humans that make it Christian does God agree them?
Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Solly is offline
Solly Ex-twebber
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Christian (other)  |  social democrat  
Posts: 15,056
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 20455 | Anti-Spam: 2226
Pearls: 368
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 07:49 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
1Co 10:30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Col 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Since when is remembering the Lord and what he has done for us not going to make God agreeable? Unless it involves wilful sin, or distortion of his truth, then what is the problem.

Btw, we don't usually start this sort of thread until late november, early december.

Are you going to roll out the 'heathen practices' stuff now?

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: March 2004 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 08:49 AM
 
In reply to this post by Solly
 
 
 
Originally posted by Solly
1Co 10:30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Col 3:17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Since when is remembering the Lord and what he has done for us not going to make God agreeable? Unless it involves wilful sin, or distortion of his truth, then what is the problem.

Btw, we don't usually start this sort of thread until late november, early december.

Are you going to roll out the 'heathen practices' stuff now?

As you know it is pagan I will ask, is it agreeable to God, so then this celebration therefore should be recorded in the Book of Acts of the Apostles & others, as men who did things to God's glory, but it is not there, why?
Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Xavier is offline
Xavier Long Live The Lamb of God
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Christianity  |  Anarchist*  
Posts: 35,691
Join Date: October 6th, 2003
Spam: 83307 | Anti-Spam: 1566
Pearls: 502
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 08:58 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
Originally posted by barryrob
As you know it is pagan I will ask, is it agreeable to God, so then this celebration therefore should be recorded in the Book of Acts of the Apostles & others, as men who did things to God's glory, but it is not there, why?
Barryrob
Argument from Silence.

 
  Amen Award: most amened twebber - Issue reason: even those who hate what he has to say listen anyway. Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: January 2004 Alumnus Alumnus of the Year: AotY vote winner - Issue reason: 2005 Alumnus of the Year    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
Be sure to check out Striped Theology, my TheoBlog.
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Solly is offline
Solly Ex-twebber
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Christian (other)  |  social democrat  
Posts: 15,056
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 20455 | Anti-Spam: 2226
Pearls: 368
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 09:35 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
Originally posted by barryrob
As you know it is pagan I will ask, is it agreeable to God, so then this celebration therefore should be recorded in the Book of Acts of the Apostles & others, as men who did things to God's glory, but it is not there, why?
Barryrob
No, I don't know it's pagan - we didn't slaughter a calf last Christmas at church, we didn't invoke the sun God to return, nor did we practice any fertility rites. The nearest we came to Teraphim we a manger display. however, a good time was had by family gathered together, as well as the brethren singing God's praises, for he was contracted to a span, for our sakes. Loving demonstrations were passed around, and all were glad our saviour came into the world.

Oh, oh, wait,didn't some other people use Dec 25th??? Oh, but they aren't here now, are they, they have gone, and Christianity reigns. sigh.

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: March 2004 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 11:11 AM
 
In reply to this post by Solly
 
 
 
Originally posted by Solly
No, I don't know it's pagan - we didn't slaughter a calf last Christmas at church, we didn't invoke the sun God to return, nor did we practice any fertility rites. The nearest we came to Teraphim we a manger display. however, a good time was had by family gathered together, as well as the brethren singing God's praises, for he was contracted to a span, for our sakes. Loving demonstrations were passed around, and all were glad our saviour came into the world.





OK, but it would be good to adderss the question.



Oh, oh, wait,didn't some other people use Dec 25th??? Oh, but they aren't here now, are they, they have gone, and Christianity reigns. sigh.
Oh, Yes they are!


Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Solly is offline
Solly Ex-twebber
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Christian (other)  |  social democrat  
Posts: 15,056
Join Date: January 27th, 2003
Spam: 20455 | Anti-Spam: 2226
Pearls: 368
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 11:20 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
Looks like we will have to wait until Christmas to get a substantive response form you


 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: March 2004 Alumnus    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Gabby is offline
Gabby brought to you by APPLE!!
Currently Unavailable
 
Female  |  Christian  |  Canadian  
Posts: 9,999
Join Date: November 24th, 2003
Spam: 20782 | Anti-Spam: 244
Pearls: 314
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 11:37 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
I've been round and round with this, with myself and with others. I still struggle with it. However, to be consisitant about using or doing pagan things we need to include all those things. So here's a short list. Diamonds were thought to be magical and valued for such. (There goes my wedding ring) Oh and the ring has pagan symbolism also. The white dress and probably most of the wedding cer. Pearls were associated with the moon and such pagan rituals. (There goes my grandmothers necklace.) The Obalisk in my garden where I grow my beans and morning glories, pagan. Almost all of the presious stones were thought to have some magical power. (some still believe this.) Cats were worshiped, so there goes my little porcelein Cat with kitten. Cows are still worshiped in India, but I know people who love to collect cows to decorate with. Feng shwe (can't spell that) believes that mirrors can change a person's fate. Garlic, different herbs, and even the cross is used for pagan rituals. Got to get rid of those vampires.

Anyhow, these are just the things that I've thought of. I'm sure there is many many more.

just my 2 cents,
chris

I wish there was a spell checker here.

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: April 2008 Alumnus Department Head: is somewhat mighty! - Issue reason: Canadian, eh? Chess Club: contest winner - Issue reason: contest winner, not a loser    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 11:37 AM
 
In reply to this post by Solly
 
 
 
Oh, oh, wait,didn't some other people use Dec 25th??? Oh, but they aren't here now, are they, they have gone, and Christianity reigns. sigh.[/quote]

No they have not gone:-
A) Wicca Lessons Lesson 7

The Wheel of the Year

THE WINTER SOLSTICE: YULE - 21st DECEMBER

Yule is the time we celebrate the return of the waxing sun. Light and life can be seen to be returning and conquering death. Yule is a turning point, a point of change, where the tides of the year turn and begin to flow in the opposite direction. It is the darkest time of the year, the time of the longest night, but there is the promise of the return of light.

We encourage the sun to rise and to grow in power, and we remember the seasons of plenty. Magickally we bring back the season of plenty, and we feast on rich foods and drinks. The fir tree represents life amidst death, it is evergreen, representing everlasting life, and lasting friendship.

Holly and Mistletoe bear berries at this time, symbolizing fertility. Mistletoe berries are white, representing the semen of the Horned God, the Holly berries are blood red, symbolizing both the menstrual blood of the Goddess and the sacrifice of the God. Evergreen trees also represent youth and freshness, and are symbols of the promise of spring. A yule custom, still practised at Christmas is to dress an evergreen tree, and make offerings.

We honour the spirit of the tree, and what it represents. It is sad that a custom of honouring the living tree has been replaced by the meaningless decoration of ghastly plastic or tinsel trees, or the cutting down of thousands of living trees so that people can have them in their living rooms for a couple of weeks, and then dump them, causing environmental damage. It is far better to honour a living tree, outdoors.

The tree may be decorated with appropriate offerings, fruit, decorated pine cones, jewellery, symbols of the sun, symbols of fertility, birds, animals, etc. At yule we say goodbye to the dying sun, and wait through the long, cold night for the sun's rebirth. The night belongs to the Goddess, and is a night of waiting, through her pregnancy, for the Child of Promise.

In the morning we greet the new sun and celebrate the waxing year. The rising sun brings the promise of the spring and the gifts that will bring. It is still a long time before the sun will be strong, but we hope and we trust. The sun is now the Child of Promise, the young hero God. It is a time of making wishes and hopes for the coming year, and of setting resolutions. From the darkness comes light.”-http://www.avalonia.co.uk/wicca/lessons/lesson7.htm


B)
The Wheel of the Year
Yule ~ Midwinter Night's Eve
© by Mike Nichols


Our Christian friends are often quite surprised at how enthusiastically we Pagans celebrate the 'Christmas' season. Even though we prefer to use the word 'Yule', and our celebrations may peak a few days BEFORE the 25th, we nonetheless follow many of the traditional customs of the season: decorated trees, carolling, presents, Yule logs, and mistletoe. We might even go so far as putting up a 'Nativity set', though for us the three central characters are likely to be interpreted as Mother Nature, Father Time, and the Baby Sun-God.



Ultimately, of course, the holiday is rooted deeply in the cycle of the year. It is the Winter Solstice that is being celebrated, seed-time of the year, the longest night and shortest day. It is the birthday of the new Sun King, the Son of God -- by whatever name you choose to call him. On this darkest of nights, the Goddess becomes the Great Mother and once again gives birth. And it makes perfect poetic sense that on the longest night of the winter, 'the dark night of our souls', there springs the new spark of hope, the Sacred Fire, the Light of the World, the Coel Coeth.



That is why Pagans have as much right to claim this holiday as Christians. Perhaps even more so, as the Christians were rather late in laying claim to it, and tried more than once to reject it. There had been a tradition in the West that Mary bore the child Jesus on the twenty-fifth day, but no one could seem to decide on the month. Finally, in 320 C.E., the Catholic Fathers in Rome decided to make it December, in an effort to co-opt the Mithraic celebration of the Romans and the Yule celebrations of the Celts and Saxons.



Thus, despite its shaky start (for over three centuries, no one knew when Jesus was supposed to have been born!), December 25 finally began to catch on. By 529, it was a civic holiday, and all work or public business (except that of cooks, bakers, or any that contributed to the delight of the holiday) was prohibited by the Emperor Justinian. In 563, the Council of Braga forbade fasting on Christmas Day, and four years later the Council of Tours proclaimed the twelve days from December 25 to Epiphany as a sacred, festive season. This last point is perhaps the hardest to impress upon the modern reader, who is lucky to get a single day off work. Christmas, in the Middle Ages, was not a SINGLE day, but rather a period of TWELVE days, from December 25 to January 6. The Twelve Days of Christmas, in fact. It is certainly lamentable that the modern world has abandoned this approach, along with the popular Twelfth Night celebrations.



Of course, the Christian version of the holiday spread to many countries no faster than Christianity itself, which means that 'Christmas' wasn't celebrated in Ireland until the late fifth century; in England, Switzerland, and Austria until the seventh; in Germany until the eighth; and in the Slavic lands until the ninth and tenth. Not that these countries lacked their own mid-winter celebrations of Yuletide. Long before the world had heard of Jesus, Pagans had been observing the season by bringing in the Yule log, wishing on it, and lighting it from the remains of last year's log. Riddles were posed and answered, magic and rituals were practiced, wild boars were sacrificed and consumed along with large quantities of liquor, corn dollies were carried from house to house while carolling, fertility rites were practiced (girls standing under a sprig of mistletoe were subject to a bit more than a kiss), and divinations were cast for the coming Spring. Many of these Pagan customs, in an appropriately watered-down form, have entered the mainstream of Christian celebration, though most celebrants do not realize (or do not mention it, if they do) their origins.



For modern Witches, Yule (from the Anglo-Saxon 'Yula', meaning 'wheel' of the year) is usually celebrated on the actual Winter Solstice, which may vary by a few days, though it usually occurs on or around December 21st. It is a Lesser Sabbat or Lower Holiday in the modern Pagan calendar, one of the four quarter-days of the year, but a very important one. Pagan customs are still enthusiastically followed. Once, the Yule log had been the center of the celebration. It was lighted on the eve of the solstice (it should light on the first try) and must be kept burning for twelve hours, for good luck. It should be made of ash. Later, the Yule log was replaced by the Yule tree but, instead of burning it, burning candles were placed on it. In Christianity, Protestants might claim that Martin Luther invented the custom, and Catholics might grant St. Boniface the honor, but the custom can demonstrably be traced back through the Roman Saturnalia all the way to ancient Egypt. Needless to say, such a tree should be cut down rather than purchased, and should be disposed of by burning, the proper way to dispatch any sacred object.



Along with the evergreen, the holly and the ivy and the mistletoe were important plants of the season, all symbolizing fertility and everlasting life. Mistletoe was especially venerated by the Celtic Druids, who cut it with a golden sickle on the sixth night of the moon, and believed it to be an aphrodisiac. (Magically -- not medicinally! It's highly toxic!) But aphrodisiacs must have been the smallest part of the Yuletide menu in ancient times, as contemporary reports indicate that the tables fairly creaked under the strain of every type of good food. And drink! The most popular of which was the 'wassail cup' deriving its name from the Anglo-Saxon term 'waes hael' (be whole or hale).



Medieval Christmas folklore seems endless: that animals will all kneel down as the Holy Night arrives, that bees hum the '100th psalm' on Christmas Eve, that a windy Christmas will bring good luck, that a person born on Christmas Day can see the Little People, that a cricket on the hearth brings good luck, that if one opens all the doors of the house at midnight all the evil spirits will depart, that you will have one lucky month for each Christmas pudding you sample, that the tree must be taken down by Twelfth Night or bad luck is sure to follow, that 'if Christmas on a Sunday be, a windy winter we shall see', that 'hours of sun on Christmas Day, so many frosts in the month of May', that one can use the Twelve Days of Christmas to predict the weather for each of the twelve months of the coming year, and so on.



Remembering that most Christmas customs are ultimately based upon older Pagan customs, it only remains for modern Pagans to reclaim their lost traditions. In doing so, we can share many common customs with our Christian friends, albeit with a slightly different interpretation. And thus we all share in the beauty of this most magical of seasons, when the Mother Goddess once again gives birth to the baby Sun-God and sets the wheel in motion again. To conclude with a long-overdue paraphrase, 'Goddess bless us, every one!'

http://www.americanwicca.com/university/wheel-0009.html




 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 06:44 PM
 
In reply to this post by Gabby
 
 
 
Originally posted by gabbailey
I've been round and round with this, with myself and with others. I still struggle with it. However, to be consisitant about using or doing pagan things we need to include all those things. So here's a short list. Diamonds were thought to be magical and valued for such. (There goes my wedding ring) Oh and the ring has pagan symbolism also. The white dress and probably most of the wedding cer. Pearls were associated with the moon and such pagan rituals. (There goes my grandmothers necklace.) The Obalisk in my garden where I grow my beans and morning glories, pagan. Almost all of the presious stones were thought to have some magical power. (some still believe this.) Cats were worshiped, so there goes my little porcelein Cat with kitten. Cows are still worshiped in India, but I know people who love to collect cows to decorate with. Feng shwe (can't spell that) believes that mirrors can change a person's fate. Garlic, different herbs, and even the cross is used for pagan rituals. Got to get rid of those vampires.

Anyhow, these are just the things that I've thought of. I'm sure there is many many more.

just my 2 cents,
chris

I wish there was a spell checker here.
(Snap)




There is a big differance between an object of great beauty that reflect the handy work of God and a object that is used in or viewed in ones socitey as an object use in worship or religious feastivites. Some of the things you mention above where used by the Jews and God did not object to it.

The point is is it now related to or used in false worship such as the religious feasts stepped in pagan rituals and symbols and still used in a religuous way to venerate God(s).
Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Gabby is offline
Gabby brought to you by APPLE!!
Currently Unavailable
 
Female  |  Christian  |  Canadian  
Posts: 9,999
Join Date: November 24th, 2003
Spam: 20782 | Anti-Spam: 244
Pearls: 314
 
Old
  August 25th 2004 , 07:32 PM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
Originally posted by barryrob
(Snap)




There is a big differance between an object of great beauty that reflect the handy work of God and a object that is used in or viewed in ones socitey as an object use in worship or religious feastivites. Some of the things you mention above where used by the Jews and God did not object to it.

The point is is it now related to or used in false worship such as the religious feasts stepped in pagan rituals and symbols and still used in a religuous way to venerate God(s).
Barryrob

These objects were not and still are not just peices of great beauty. New Agers basically worships these things, diamonds crystals, opals, pearls and other minerals. Wears them for luck and prosperity, love and happiness. THIS IS FALSE WORSHIP.

Almost the whole wedding ceremony is pagan rituals. The garter, something old, something new, something blue, tossing the boquet, throwing the garter, throwing the rice, not seeing the bride in her dress before the ceromony. I'm sure I'm missing many many more. How about the diamonds which are so popular. Read on the history of wearing diamonds. The ring itself, the circle of eternity, is pagan. People, non christians inparticular, still hold to the superstions. How many times have you heard the phrase "knock on wood"? Peoples today still believe it is bad luck to see the bride in her gown before the wedding. People hold fast, even to leagalism, to the idea of the white dress for the pure and the off white for those who are not. You won't find that anywhere in the bible. Did you know that black was the color for the brides in the Victorian era. Not so long ago. Red is the color for the brides in China. Red brings good luck you know.

Again, Rom. 14:5,6ff "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, ...................."


chris

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: April 2008 Alumnus Department Head: is somewhat mighty! - Issue reason: Canadian, eh? Chess Club: contest winner - Issue reason: contest winner, not a loser    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 26th 2004 , 04:45 AM
 
In reply to this post by Gabby
 
 
 
Originally posted by gabbailey
These objects were not and still are not just peices of great beauty. New Agers basically worships these things, diamonds crystals, opals, pearls and other minerals. Wears them for luck and prosperity, love and happiness. THIS IS FALSE WORSHIP.

Almost the whole wedding ceremony is pagan rituals. The garter, something old, something new, something blue, tossing the boquet, throwing the garter, throwing the rice, not seeing the bride in her dress before the ceromony. I'm sure I'm missing many many more. How about the diamonds which are so popular. Read on the history of wearing diamonds. The ring itself, the circle of eternity, is pagan. People, non christians inparticular, still hold to the superstions. How many times have you heard the phrase "knock on wood"? Peoples today still believe it is bad luck to see the bride in her gown before the wedding. People hold fast, even to leagalism, to the idea of the white dress for the pure and the off white for those who are not. You won't find that anywhere in the bible. Did you know that black was the color for the brides in the Victorian era. Not so long ago. Red is the color for the brides in China. Red brings good luck you know.

Again, Rom. 14:5,6ff "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, ...................."


chris
Then reject the pagan elements.
Why did Jehovah then commend the 12 Gems but put on the High Priest Brest plate?
Jews use Rings and God allowed it.
I think you will find God is reasonable in his requirments.

You could say the same about the Days of the Week or the pagan symbols on coins etc., but then there are things beyond our power to alter at this time, these Jehovah will have to deal with himself in due time until then we avoid that which is within our power to do so according to our conscience, God will not ask us to change things beyond our power to do so.


Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
Gabby is offline
Gabby brought to you by APPLE!!
Currently Unavailable
 
Female  |  Christian  |  Canadian  
Posts: 9,999
Join Date: November 24th, 2003
Spam: 20782 | Anti-Spam: 244
Pearls: 314
 
Old
  August 26th 2004 , 11:14 AM
 
In reply to this post by barryrob
 
 
 
That is my point. It is impossible to rid ourselves of all that is pagan. I have a beautiful wedding ring with diamonds that I wear proudly, as a reminder of my oath and a sign to others that I have taken an oath. I also enjoy it's beauty. I have a string of pearls that I keep, not because I worship the moon, but because I like them. The obilisk in my garden I keep to support my plants, not because I'm making any kind of dediction to some false god. I put lights on my trees outside in the winter because winter is deary and I enjoy the beauty of it, not because I'm looking forward to some winter solstice. I put lights inside my home, in my windows and around my bannister for the same reasons. I decorate with pretty colors and put a tree up with lights and decorations because we choose to make a holiday at the end of December, not to worship the sun or the tree. We talk about Jesus' birth all year, but we focus on Jesus' birth, life and death especially. It's a good teaching moment for our children. You know why? Because I can focus on things differently in my home. I can take the greed and consumerism of that time of the year and focus it for my children on something good and beautiful, when the world focuses on things and fantasy.

The world isn't gonna stop celebrating the Christmas holiday. My children's school isn't gonna stop doing the crafts, and songs of that season. Advertisers aren't gonna stop peddling their wares to my kids. The kids at school aren't gonna stop talking about what they want, what they get. But I can focus it for my children.

It's the same for Easter. Now there's a pagan name for ya!

Anyhow, as for your question, 'is Christmas Christan?' Christmas is what you make it. In and of itself it is NOTHING, just like the wedding ring I wear. People make it what they want. To look at it otherwise, you must do it across the board. Is Easter christian? Is Thanksgiving christian? Is Valentines Christian? ect.

chris

 
  Alumnus of the Month: AotM vote winner - Issue reason: April 2008 Alumnus Department Head: is somewhat mighty! - Issue reason: Canadian, eh? Chess Club: contest winner - Issue reason: contest winner, not a loser    Charter Member Quiner Member tWebber  
     
 
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 
barryrob is offline
barryrob is caught in the Matrix. Caught in the Matrix
Currently Unavailable
 
Male  |  Jehovah's Witness  |  non  
Posts: 1,089
Join Date: August 9th, 2004
Spam: 44 | Anti-Spam: 1006
Pearls: 460
 
Old
  August 26th 2004 , 11:31 AM
 
In reply to this post by Gabby
 
 
 
Originally posted by gabbailey
That is my point. It is impossible to rid ourselves of all that is pagan. I have a beautiful wedding ring with diamonds that I wear proudly, as a reminder of my oath and a sign to others that I have taken an oath. I also enjoy it's beauty. I have a string of pearls that I keep, not because I worship the moon, but because I like them. The obilisk in my garden I keep to support my plants, not because I'm making any kind of dediction to some false god. I put lights on my trees outside in the winter because winter is deary and I enjoy the beauty of it, not because I'm looking forward to some winter solstice. I put lights inside my home, in my windows and around my bannister for the same reasons. I decorate with pretty colors and put a tree up with lights and decorations because we choose to make a holiday at the end of December, not to worship the sun or the tree. We talk about Jesus' birth all year, but we focus on Jesus' birth, life and death especially. It's a good teaching moment for our children. You know why? Because I can focus on things differently in my home. I can take the greed and consumerism of that time of the year and focus it for my children on something good and beautiful, when the world focuses on things and fantasy.

The world isn't gonna stop celebrating the Christmas holiday. My children's school isn't gonna stop doing the crafts, and songs of that season. Advertisers aren't gonna stop peddling their wares to my kids. The kids at school aren't gonna stop talking about what they want, what they get. But I can focus it for my children.

It's the same for Easter. Now there's a pagan name for ya!

Anyhow, as for your question, 'is Christmas Christan?' Christmas is what you make it. In and of itself it is NOTHING, just like the wedding ring I wear. People make it what they want. To look at it otherwise, you must do it across the board. Is Easter christian? Is Thanksgiving christian? Is Valentines Christian? ect.

chris


That is what I do as a Christian Witness of Jehovah, which as Jesus said sets us free.

Barryrob

 
    Quiner Member tWebber  
 
  Reply With Quote
Click Here for Post Options
 

« Previous Thread   |   Post New Thread   |   Next Thread »


 
Forum Jump  

Page generated in 1.41035 seconds with 15 queries