Gleaned from something I read from NT Wright:

God's perfect will is that there be no man as King over Israel, but Himself only. That was His original desire for Israel, and they disobeyed by demanding a man like the other nations. In Christ is the perfect fulfillment of God's desire that only He should be Israel's King.

speaking of Wright, has anyone been able to get ahold of his new work, The Resurrection of the Son of God? i hear it is outstanding. i pre-ordered it from Amazon in early May, and was just sent a letter saying that they are "unable to obtain" it from any of their dealers.

I never thought of that! Thanks, Dee Dee!

Yesterday @ 08:53 AM post located here
phantaz sunlyk:

speaking of Wright, has anyone been able to get ahold of his new work, The Resurrection of the Son of God? i hear it is outstanding. i pre-ordered it from Amazon in early May, and was just sent a letter saying that they are "unable to obtain" it from any of their dealers.

I recently received a copy from Amazon.com. It is literally too heavy for me to handle this soon after surgery.

When I say "heavy", I mean pounds/ounces .

when did you order it?

Yesterday @ 05:42 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

Gleaned from something I read from NT Wright:

God's perfect will is that there be no man as King over Israel, but Himself only. That was His original desire for Israel, and they disobeyed by demanding a man like the other nations. In Christ is the perfect fulfillment of God's desire that only He should be Israel's King.

Actually, he promised that David's throne would last forever. And it is in THIS manner that Jesus rules, not as Jehovah himself.

Luk 1:32 This One will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob to the ages, and of His kingdom there will be no end.

So Jesus rules as David, not as Jehovah.

-Tony

That didn't address the argument.

Today @ 01:14 AM post located here
phantaz sunlyk:

when did you order it?

Date of order: April 5, 2003.

Date of shipment: May 21, 2003 06:52:58 PM Lexington KY USA.

Today @ 01:50 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

That didn't address the argument.

You haven't really established a scriptural arguement.

-Tony

Actually I did based upon God's plan for Israel. You skipped it.

Today @ 02:20 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

Actually I did based upon God's plan for Israel. You skipped it.

First, you did not provide a single scripture. Second, you did not address the very fact that Jesus is ruling in the manner of David, which was a human king who ruled over the nation while Jehovah was still the highest King. Thus, Jesus, ruling in that manner, still has Jehovah in a kingly position for eternity. Jesus is only said to rule for Jehovah for a period, and after such hand the kingdom back over to Jehovah (1 Cor 15:24-28). It is the Davidic throne that Jesus eternally has.

-Tony

Oh David reigned from Heaven did he?

Today @ 02:49 AM post located here
Dee Dee Warren:

Oh David reigned from Heaven did he?

I fail to see what location has to do with the fact that he reigns in the same manner as David. Scripture say that he does this in black and white.

-Tony

Today @ 01:49 AM post located here
Tsmith:

Actually, he promised that David's throne would last forever. And it is in THIS manner that Jesus rules, not as Jehovah himself.

Luk 1:32 This One will be great and will be called Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob to the ages, and of His kingdom there will be no end.

So Jesus rules as David, not as Jehovah.

-Tony

Really?

Or, one could say that it is as "Jehovah" Jesus rules, not as David (otherwise, he would be ruling as an inferior to Himself):

According to Jesus, David called the Messiah (<φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">ο Χριστος –Mark 12:35)
יהוה (= <φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">κυριον, indicating that David could not be a forefather of the Messiah (<φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">Χριστος).

The Messiah does not rule as David; He rules as יהוה.

I submit that as a thesis. Show me by the Hebrew text of Psalm 110 and the Greek text of Mark 12:35-37 that I have misrepresented those texts.

Today @ 09:51 PM post located here
Tsmith:



I fail to see what location has to do with the fact that he reigns in the same manner as David. Scripture say that he does this in black and white.

-Tony

Ruling from heaven is not in the same manner as David. The anti-type is more than the type. God's original intent for Israel was to be their King, not a man. The Messianic plan is not going to be second best. Israel sinned when they clamored for a king like other nations, and that is what you are tryikng to reduce Christ to.

Today @ 03:49 AM post located here
John Reece:



Really?

Or, one could say that it is as &quot;Jehovah&quot; Jesus rules, not as David (otherwise, he would be ruling as an inferior to Himself):

According to Jesus, David called the Messiah (<φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">ο Χριστος –Mark 12:35)
&amp;#1497;&amp;#1492;&amp;#1493;&amp;#1492; (= <φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">κυριον, indicating that David could not be a forefather of the Messiah (<φοντ χολορ="#0000φφ">Χριστος).

The Messiah does not rule as David; He rules as &amp;#1497;&amp;#1492;&amp;#1493;&amp;#1492;.

I submit that as a thesis. Show me by the Hebrew text of Psalm 110 and the Greek text of Mark 12:35-37 that I have misrepresented those texts.

Psalms 110:1 has YHWH and ADONI. ADONI is there translated MY Lord, not ADONAI. That said, God is never called ADONI and nobody else is ever called ADONAI. KURIOS does not = YHWH. Rather, KURIOS = ADONAI or ADONI. So, Psalms 110:1 is actually good proof against Jesus being Almighty.