The Apostles were with the Lord Jesus after His resurrection but before He ascended into heaven.While with Him the Lord explained the "things pertaining to the kingdom of God":

"To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts1:3).

After being taught about the kingdom the Apostles asked the Lord:

"Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts1:6).

The Apostle surely believed that the kingdom would be restored to Israel,and the Lord said nothing that would indicate that they were in error on this point.However,He told them that they were not to know the "time" when the kingdom would be restored to Israel (Acts1:7).

Since the Preterists think that the kingdom is already here then perhaps they can tell us when that kingdom was restored to Israel.

They want us to throw our reason to the wind and imagine that it was restored to Israel in AD 70 when Jerusalem was destroyed.

In Christ,
Mickey

Yeah...

The present age obviously is not the Messianic Kingdom. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are not being fulfilled at the present time.

-Tim

Hmm so what is Jesus king of?

Originally posted by Tim C.

Yeah...

The present age obviously is not the Messianic Kingdom. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are not being fulfilled at the present time.

-Tim

66And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

80And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.



I hope you wear a helmut when they let you go outside.

Originally posted by Hitch

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Those verses are in regard to the "Abrahamic Covenant".The promise of the kingdom is in regard to the "Davidic Covenant" (2Sam.7:8-17).And it is also certain that the following verses in regard to the Abrahamic Covenant are not in effect today for the nation of Israel:

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

In Christ,
Mickey

Originally posted by Mickey

[/b]
Those verses are in regard to the "Abrahamic Covenant".

(The present age obviously is not the Messianic Kingdom. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are not being fulfilled at the present time.)



(The promise of the kingdom is in regard to the "Davidic Covenant" (2Sam.7:8-17).And it is also certain that the following verses in regard to the Abrahamic Covenant are not in effect today for the nation of Israel:

In Christ,
Mickey

LOL duh. Antichrists dont receive the blessings of Abe, only christians.

But yet in your feebleness you are unable to explain why wew should believe your version and interpretation over that of the Holy Spirit.

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying



Care to explain that Mickey? Quite a pedastal you put your self on Mickey. You should run for pope.

Originally posted by Tim C.

Yeah...

The present age obviously is not the Messianic Kingdom. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants are not being fulfilled at the present time.

-Tim

Here is a little something I wrote a few months ago to explain the biblical perspective of the "Millenial Kingdom"

What is the nature of the Millennial Kingdom?



How we understand this, affects how we understand nearly all of the rest of eschatological scripture. I propose to make a Biblical case for the neo postmillennialism concept of the Millennial Kingdom.



The concept of the “Millennial” Kingdom, comes from Rev. 20. This is the only place in scripture that actually mention the “Millennia” or thousand years aspect of the Kingdom. Postmillennialist do not think that this is a literal thousand year period, but that 1000 years is representative of a long, but indefinite period of time.



Postmillers believe that this Kingdom was established either in the first century or in the Garden of Eden. However, nearly all postmillers agree that the reign of God the Son, Jesus Christ over this Kingdom began or was consummated in the first century.



Postmillers also believe that the MK is not a geo-political Kingdom like England or France, with definite borders and citizenship based on birth or locations. We see the MK as the Kingdom of believers here on earth (so in one since it is an “earthly” Kingdom, but only in the since that it is present on earth) but being ruled by Christ from heaven. But unlike earthly Kingdoms, citizenship into this Kingdom is not determined by birth or residency, but by Salvation. Not all the people alive during the MK will be “in’ the Kingdom.



Postmillers believe that the Kingdom will (did) begin small and will grow someday to include almost the entire earth. We also believe that it will end at the future second coming of Christ when He will come back to resurrect and judge the living and the dead at the end of time when “all enemies” are under His foot, the last enemy being death.



Postmillers firmly deny the premillennialist view that Jesus is going to come and “rapture the church” away prior to a seven year tribulation.



First I would like to make a Biblical case for a non-literal understanding of 1000 in Rev. 20. 100 is often used in the OT to denote a large number of unspecific size. Much in the same way we say “If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a million times….” As no one ever says the same thing exactly a million times, or even close to a million times.



Scriptural examples of this include:

1 Chronicles 16:15

15Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,

A thousand generations? Have there been any where near 1000 generations since Adam and Eve. Matthew tells us that there were 14 generations from Abraham to David 14 from David to the exile, and 14 from the exile to Jesus that is a grand total of 42 we turn to Luke and count the generations from Adam to Abraham and that gives us another 21, for a grand total of 63. No where near 1000. And Chronicles was written well before Christ birth.



Now many scholars (and I agree) say that there are, by design, gaps in Hebraic genealogies. But I am not aware of anyone who allows for enough gaps to stretch 63 to 1000.



Plus, if we take the 1000 as literal, does that mean that the 1001st generation is able to completely ignore the word that God commanded?

Job 9:3

3If one wished to contend with him, one could not answer him once in a thousand times.

Here Job is talking about “contending with God” He says one could not answer Him once in a thousand times. Does that literally mean that a finite man can contend with an infinite God one in every 1000 questions exactly, or does it mean that finite man does not have any hope at all of contending with infinite God?

Scripture Verse:

Psalms 50:10:]

Scripture Verse:

10For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills.

Does God really own every beast in the forest but only cattle on a thousand hills? What about the 1001st hill? What about cattle that are not on hills at all? Or is this another instance where 1000 is symbolic of a large and indefinite number?



I say the latter.



Other examples of 1000 being used to describe a large but non-specific number are:



Deut. 7:9, Deut 32:30; Josh. 23:10; 2 Ch. 14:9; Ps. 84:10, Ps. 105:8; Ek. 6:6; and Is. 60:22



So there is no reason why the millennial reign has to be exactly 1000 years. Even the wooden literalism of Dispensational Futurism allows that there is symbolism in Revelation. And since no other mention of the Kingdom in the New Testament mentions any length for the Kingdom, it is reasonable to assume that the 1000 years in Revelation is not meant to be taken as a literal period.



Nearly all people who hold the postmillennial position today agree that the Kingdom of God, went through a “change of administration”, so to speak, in the first century as a result of the first coming of God the Son.



Let’s look at some scripture to support this aspect of postmillennialism:

Danielle 2:44

44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,

And in the days of those kings…what days is Daniel talking about here? In the says of the “Kings of iron and clay” which nearly all evangelical Christians agree refers to the Roman Empire. This coupled with Daniel 2:34-45 that tells us a “Stone” not cut by human hands, which nearly every evangelical Christian equates with Jesus, puts this “Kingdom” as beginning in the first century.

Mt. 3:2

"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (see also Mt. 4:17, Mt. 10:7, Mark 1:15 and Luke 9:27)

Note the same Greek word translated “is at hand” is used in Mt. 26:45 to describe the hour which Jesus would be betrayed, and the very next thing that happened was betrayal. This suggest a very close proximity, not 2000 years separation.



[verse=Mt. 16:28]Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (See also, Mt. 11:12)]/verse]

Luke 23:42-43

And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

When would Jesus see the thief? 2000 years? Or that day?



Notice also that Jesus response to the thief’s question about the Kingdom was a reference to paradise. Not to a future physical geopolitical Kingdom. Also notice the thief was dying, and asking Jesus to remember him in His Kingdom. Even the thief understood that the Kingdom was not a future, world wide physical geopolitical kingdom, nor is the King, Jesus, reigning from earth (though there are elements of the Kingdom on earth.)



Many verses support this:

Ps. 103:19

The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.

The Lord’s throne is in heaven, but his Kingdom rules over all.

Mt. 5:20:

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here, entrance into the Kingdom is not based on physical, geographic location, but on righteousness (see also Gal. 5:21, Eph. 5:5, 1 Thes. 2:12, 2 Thes. 1:5).

Mt. 7:21

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven

Entrance into the Kingdom is a matter of faith, not geo-political location (see also 1 Cor. 6:-10).







In Matthew 13:18-38 (not quoted for the sake of space) Jesus explains that the Kingdom is like seeds sown on different types of ground. Entrance into this Kingdom is not based on your geographic location, but on your reaction to the gospel.

Mt. 16:19

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

This verse shows the clear dual nature of the Kingdom, binding on earth parallels the binding in Heaven, loosening is likewise parallel. The keys are given to those who remain behind, though the King is reigning in Heaven.

Mt. 19:23

And Jesus said to his disciples, "Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here we have it “difficult” to enter the Kingdom. If this were an earthly, geopolitical kingdom that covered the whole world, how would it be possible to NOT be in the Kingdom? (see also Mark 10:24-25)

Mt. 21:43

Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits.

The Kingdom here will be taken away from one group (Jews) and given people producing fruits. This shows, two things. One, the Kingdom was already inexistence in the first century and belonged to the Jews. Two, the Kingdom will be removed from the Jews and given to another group (gentiles) who will bear fruit. (Not that Jews are excluded from the Kingdom, but it is no longer exclusively Jewish).



In Matthew 22:2-14 (not quoted for space) compares the Kingdom to a wedding feast where the King’s invited guest (Jews) reject the invitation and the King accepts “strangers” (Gentiles). (see also Mt. 25:1-13)

Mt. 23:13

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in,

Here we have first century Pharisees shutting people out of the Kingdom. How can first century Pharisees shut people out of a future Kingdom that will encompass the entire world? They can’t. This is clearly a first century (and continuing) Kingdom that is not geo political in nature.

Luke 13:28

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in

Luke 13:28

Here we have the Kingdom including the patriarchs (who are long dead). How can this be a physical future geo political Kingdom?

Luke 17:20-21

20Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, 21nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

The Kingdom is “in the midst” of first century Palestine.

Jn. 3:3-5

Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[a] he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Access to the kingdom is from being “born again”, not as result of a geographical location, ethnic background, or anything else.

Jn. 18:36

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world."

It does not get any clearer than this. Jesus tells us that His Kingdom is not of this world. Period.



Paul Tells us:

Rom 14:17

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

And

I Cor. 4:20

For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

The writer of Hebrews says:

Heb. 12:28

Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,

Other verses that support a first century, non-geological Kingdom with Christ reigning form heaven are Heb. 12:28, Mt. 6:33 and Mt. 18:3





So, at this point, we have the millennial Kingdom that is not (necessarily) a literal 1000 years. We have it as a non-political, non-geographical, not physical Kingdom with Christ reigning from heaven. We have the Kingdom being taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles. But the Kingdom is also described as beginning small but growing large as to cover nearly the entire world (but not in a geopolitical since as that has already been ruled out).



Daniel 2:34-35 describes a “rock” not made by human hands coming and crushing the Roman Empire (see above). This rock grows to a mountain that covers the entire earth. This rock is Jesus Kingdom (as even most futurist would agree). It starts small but grows to cover the entire earth.



In the parable of the mustard seed, Jesus describes the Kingdom as staring small and growing large (Mt. 13:31-32, Mark 4:30-32, Luke 13:18-19) the same is true with the parable of the leaven (Mt. 13:33, Luke 13:20-21)



This is hardly the “Instant world wide, Kingdom of God” described my premill/posttrib futurist.



Finally the Kingdom (or Christ reign of the Kingdom, depending on the postmillinialis you ask) will end with the second coming of Christ, and the general resurrection when all of Christ enemies, death being the last, will be placed under submission to Christ (1 Cor. 15:24-28, Ps. 110:1, Mt. 22:44, Mark 12:36, Acts 2:35, Heb. 1:13, Heb. 10:13)



And the Kingdom can not be “postrib” (nor can the trib be future) according to Rev. 1:9

Scripture Verse:

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

Here we have John being a (present tense in the first century) partner in both the Kingdom and the tribulation.



So, we have the Millennial Kingdom being of a long period, but not necessarily 1000 years. We have a Kingdom that was in existence since at least the first century. We have a Kingdom that is not geo political in nature. A Kingdom that is ruled from Heaven, but is (at least in part) manifested on earth. A Kingdom that starts small, but grows to fill the earth. A King Who’s reign will end at the Second coming.



We are in the Millennium NOW!!! Christ is currently reigning from heaven, and has been since His ascension. The Kingdom started out small, but has grown, and will continue to grow, until nearly the whole world is a part. A Kingdom where membership into the Kingdom is determined by righteousness and response to the gospel.

In other words, the Millennial Kingdom is what futurist refer to as “the church age”.

I look forward to your response.


Feel free to address one item or the whole thing.

Got quiet F...

Originally posted by Hitch

LOL duh. Antichrists dont receive the blessings of Abe, only christians.

Where did I ever say that Antichrists receive the blessings of Abraham?

But yet in your feebleness you are unable to explain why wew should believe your version and interpretation over that of the Holy Spirit.

67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying

It is you who is feeble in understanding the Scriptures.

Care to explain that Mickey? Quite a pedastal you put your self on Mickey. You should run for pope.

First of all,some of the words that you quoted are not mine.

Second of all,none of what you are saying makes any sense.

In Christ,
Mickey

Originally posted by Faramir

Here is a little something We are in the Millennium NOW!!! Christ is currently reigning from heaven, and has been since His ascension.

Then why is He not sitting on His Throne?:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne"(Rev.3:21).

Also,the Lord Jesus Himself revealed that He will not sit at His throne until He returns to earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"(Mt.25:31).

In Christ,
Mickey

LOL Keep your head down Michkey sniffing the dirt in your dingy hiding place. But I like that bit about not quoting you,,, you didnt mind that the post you responed to was not yours,,, until you got backed up in the corner again,, that is. Dont be pathetic

Originally posted by Hitch

LOL Keep your head down Michkey sniffing the dirt in your dingy hiding place. But I like that bit about not quoting you,,, you didnt mind that the post you responed to was not yours,,, until you got backed up in the corner again,, that is. Dont be pathetic

Since you think that the kingdom has already been set up and the Lord Jesus is now reigning in heaven then perhaps you can explain the following verses.No preterist yet has been able to answer them yet.

If He is ruling now then why is He not sitting on His Throne?:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne"(Rev.3:21).

Also,the Lord Jesus Himself revealed that He will not sit at His throne until He returns to earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"(Mt.25:31).

In Christ,
Mickey

Originally posted by Mickey

Then why is He not sitting on His Throne?:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne"(Rev.3:21).

Also,the Lord Jesus Himself revealed that He will not sit at His throne until He returns to earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory"(Mt.25:31).

In Christ,
Mickey

He is.

Originally posted by Hitch

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

And your point is... what?

I suppose your point is that you deny the two advent teaching of Scripture, and therefore deny the "two advent" Chiliasm of the ancient Church? Ah, yes, thats whats going on here. Why should I give a hoot about your denials of these simple truths, Hitch?

-Tim

Originally posted by Faramir

He is.

You say that Matthew 25:31 has happened in AD 70 and now "He is" sitting on His throne.

What evidence can you provide that proves that the Lord Jesus "came" to earth in AD 70 and at that time sat on His throne?

In Christ,
Mickey

Originally posted by Mickey

You say that Matthew 25:31 has happened in AD 70 and now "He is" sitting on His throne.

What evidence can you provide that proves that the Lord Jesus "came" to earth in AD 70 and at that time sat on His throne?

In Christ,
Mickey

I never said He came to earth.