I think so.

The Bible states that man and woman are to have been created in the image/likeness of God in three passages in the early chapters of Genesis (Gen 1:26–28; 5:1–3; 9:6), for instance: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” (Genesis 1:27)

About this listen to the Anchor Bible Dictionary (“Image of God’) Gen 5:1–2 makes it clear that both male and female are included under the designation adam who was made in God’s image. Gen 5:3 reports that Adam fathered a son “in his likeness, according to his image,” and the verse employs the same nouns used in Gen 1:26–27, though the order of the nouns and the prepositions used with each are reversed in comparison to Gen 1:26. This suggests that the way in which a son resembles his father is in some sense analogous to the way in which the human is like God.

And read this from the Harper’s Bible Dictionary (“Image Of God”), which is more to the point: “To speak of human beings (‘Adam’) as created in the image of God apparently refers primarily to the bodily form (the Hebrew term for ‘image’ usually denotes a concrete likeness) but also to the spiritual attributes the physical body symbolizes.”

If we want to know just what that image is, we should consider some of these passages that describe God with a human form:

Genesis 2:2: "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

But only a physical being needs to rest.

Genesis 3:8: "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Shouldn't this verse settle the whole debate?

God has arms: Ex. 6:6; Ex. 15:16; Deut. 4:34 Deut. 7:19; 9:29; 26:8; Acts 13:17. Deut. 5:15 Psa. 136:12. Deut. 11:2; Deut. 33:27; 1 Kin. 8:42 2 Chr. 6:32. 2 Kin. 17:36; Psa. 77:15; Psa. 89:10, 13, 21; Psa. 98:1; Song 2:6; Isa. 33:2; Isa. 40:10, 11; Isa. 51:5, 9; Isa. 52:10; Isa. 53:1; Isa. 59:16; Isa. 62:8; Isa. 63:5, 12; Jer. 21:5 Ezek. 20:33. Jer. 27:5 Jer. 32:17. Luke 1:51.

God has ears: Psa. 17:6; Psa. 39:12; Psa. 77:1; Psa. 80:1; Psa. 84:8.

God has eyes: Psa. 33:18, 19; Psa. 34:15 Amos 9:8; 1 Pet. 3:12. Psa. 121:3–5; Isa. 1:15; Isa. 3:8; Hab. 1:13; Matt. 6:22; Luke 11:34.

God has hands: Num. 11:23; is mighty, Josh. 4:24; was heavy, 1 Sam. 5:6; against the Philistines, 1 Sam. 7:13; on Elijah, 1 Kin. 18:46; not shortened, Isa. 59:1; was with the early Christians, Acts 11:21.

God has a footstool: The earth is God’s, Isa. 60:13; 66:1; Lam. 2:1; Acts 7:49.

God has a scepter: Gen. 49:10; Num. 24:17; Isa. 9:4.

God sits on a throne: 2 Chr. 18:18; Psa. 9:4, 7; 11:4; 47:8; 89:14; 97:2; 103:19; Isa. 6:1; 66:1; Matt. 5:34; 23:22; Heb. 8:1; 12:2; Rev. 14:3, 5; of Christ, Matt. 19:28; 25:31; Acts 2:30; Rev. 1:4; 3:21; 4:2–10; 7:9–17; 19:4; 21:5; 22:3.

God has a heavenly court: Gen. 1:26; 11;7; Job 1:6.

God even has nostrils: Ex 15:8; Job 4:9; Psalm 18:8, 15; Is. 65:5,

Listen to this passage from 2 Samuel 22:8:

Scripture Verse:

Then the earth reeled and rocked;
the foundations of the heavens trembled
and quaked, because he was angry.
Smoke went up from his nostrils,
and devouring fire from his mouth;
glowing coals flamed forth from him.
He bowed the heavens, and came down;
thick darkness was under his feet.
He rode on a cherub, and flew;
he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
He made darkness around him a canopy,
thick clouds, a gathering of water.
Out of the brightness before him
coals of fire flamed forth.
The Lord thundered from heaven;
the Most High uttered his voice.
He sent out arrows, and scattered them
—lightning, and routed them.
Then the channels of the sea were seen,
the foundations of the world were laid bare
at the rebuke of the Lord,
at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Can you picture this? Sounds like Zeus to me, and Zeus was pictured with a physical body.

The gods of surrounding cultures had human and physical characteristics. There is no reason to suppose the Hebrews thought differently about their God from what we read in the OT. The burden of proof is upon the conservative Christian to show why they don’t think of God in a human form. Mormons today take these statements literally and believe God has the shape of a human being, so if modern people like Mormons think this way, then it’s not so unlikely that ancient Hebrews did.

Michelangelo’s painting of the creation of Adam may actually reflect the ancient Hebrew view of God creating man.

From Exodus 33:
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

This is strange if God wasn't viewed as having a body. Please explain what God meant when he purportedly said, “There is a place near me.... What would that mean to people who thought God walked in the Garden of Eden and who thought God rested after creation?

Christians will argue that passages in the Bible about their conceptions of the universe and about God having a body are both phenomenal and anthropomorphic. Where is the word "anthropomorphism" in the Bible such that we'll know how to interpret a passage properly when it is "red flagged" with that word? I don't have such a Bible, do you? The only reason they call these things anthropomorphic (and phenomenal) is because they are misreading the texts in their original setting based upon later or hindsight understandings (i.e.,you're doing eisegesis, not exegesis).

What we have in the Bible is an evolving understanding of the nature of God, so we find later statements to the contrary, i.e, that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

Christians grab on to the final view of God reflected in the Bible, especially the NT, and say that this is what they believed all along. It's called, from their perspective, a progressive view of revelation. Liberals simply say that Christian understandings about God have continued to evolve past the canonical texts.

Tell me this. Start reading the canonical Bible from the beginning. Tell me where you read the first statement that clearly specifies that God is a spirit, with no possible meaning otherwise. That should clear the whole thing up.

As as aside: I do have at least one Baptist friend (a fundamentalist) who believes that God does have a body. So the idea is not totally absent from Christianity.

-Neil

Not unless you wish to argue that God is a divine chicken.

Psalm 91:4
He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

DJ, this is a pretty retarded argument you are offering here, and textbook mormonism. For someone who was supposedly a "great christian apologist" before your apostasy to offer this suggests your greatness may have resided principally in your own imagination.

Jason

DJ, I kicked this to sleep in my book on the Mormons, but you're even worse than they are here. Most of your cites come of a childish anthropomorphism.

The "image" language, for example, goes back to an understanding of the word as meaning one's representive on earth. Not "looks like you." The worfd was used of idols as points of presence for deities to manifest themselves. It had nothing to do with appearance as such.

God has nostrils? Exodus also says God sent a wind to blow the waters back. So what was it? A wind or God's physical nostrils, blowing away the Red Sea with divine snot and nose hairs flying all over the place? Or is it better to say, "Oh! Nostrils must be a metaphor."

I'll kick you around more tomorrow. I have to sign off for today.

Originally posted by jpholding

DJ, I kicked this to sleep in my book on the Mormons, but you're even worse than they are here. Most of your cites come of a childish anthropomorphism.

The "image" language, for example, goes back to an understanding of the word as meaning one's representive on earth. Not "looks like you." The worfd was used of idols as points of presence for deities to manifest themselves. It had nothing to do with appearance as such.

God has nostrils? Exodus also says God sent a wind to blow the waters back. So what was it? A wind or God's physical nostrils, blowing away the Red Sea with divine snot and nose hairs flying all over the place? Or is it better to say, "Oh! Nostrils must be a metaphor."

I'll kick you around more tomorrow. I have to sign off for today.

I knew this would get your attention, JP. Give it your best shot. As for Jason, I never believed this as a Christian. But I think it has merit now, okay? Sheesh.

And for the record, I do not believe that the Bible concludes God has a body, so this isn't a Mormon argument. I'm making the case that the early Hebrews probably thought so.

Originally posted by Doubting John

I think so.

The Bible states that man and woman are to have been created in the image/likeness of God in three passages in the early chapters of Genesis (Gen 1:26–28; 5:1–3; 9:6), for instance: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” (Genesis 1:27)

About this listen to the Anchor Bible Dictionary (“Image of God’) Gen 5:1–2 makes it clear that both male and female are included under the designation adam who was made in God’s image. Gen 5:3 reports that Adam fathered a son “in his likeness, according to his image,” and the verse employs the same nouns used in Gen 1:26–27, though the order of the nouns and the prepositions used with each are reversed in comparison to Gen 1:26. This suggests that the way in which a son resembles his father is in some sense analogous to the way in which the human is like God.

And read this from the Harper’s Bible Dictionary (“Image Of God”), which is more to the point: “To speak of human beings (‘Adam’) as created in the image of God apparently refers primarily to the bodily form (the Hebrew term for ‘image’ usually denotes a concrete likeness) but also to the spiritual attributes the physical body symbolizes.”

If we want to know just what that image is, we should consider some of these passages that describe God with a human form:

Genesis 2:2: "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

But only a physical being needs to rest.

Genesis 3:8: "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Shouldn't this verse settle the whole debate?

God has arms: Ex. 6:6; Ex. 15:16; Deut. 4:34 Deut. 7:19; 9:29; 26:8; Acts 13:17. Deut. 5:15 Psa. 136:12. Deut. 11:2; Deut. 33:27; 1 Kin. 8:42 2 Chr. 6:32. 2 Kin. 17:36; Psa. 77:15; Psa. 89:10, 13, 21; Psa. 98:1; Song 2:6; Isa. 33:2; Isa. 40:10, 11; Isa. 51:5, 9; Isa. 52:10; Isa. 53:1; Isa. 59:16; Isa. 62:8; Isa. 63:5, 12; Jer. 21:5 Ezek. 20:33. Jer. 27:5 Jer. 32:17. Luke 1:51.

God has ears: Psa. 17:6; Psa. 39:12; Psa. 77:1; Psa. 80:1; Psa. 84:8.

God has eyes: Psa. 33:18, 19; Psa. 34:15 Amos 9:8; 1 Pet. 3:12. Psa. 121:3–5; Isa. 1:15; Isa. 3:8; Hab. 1:13; Matt. 6:22; Luke 11:34.

God has hands: Num. 11:23; is mighty, Josh. 4:24; was heavy, 1 Sam. 5:6; against the Philistines, 1 Sam. 7:13; on Elijah, 1 Kin. 18:46; not shortened, Isa. 59:1; was with the early Christians, Acts 11:21.

God has a footstool: The earth is God’s, Isa. 60:13; 66:1; Lam. 2:1; Acts 7:49.

God has a scepter: Gen. 49:10; Num. 24:17; Isa. 9:4.

God sits on a throne: 2 Chr. 18:18; Psa. 9:4, 7; 11:4; 47:8; 89:14; 97:2; 103:19; Isa. 6:1; 66:1; Matt. 5:34; 23:22; Heb. 8:1; 12:2; Rev. 14:3, 5; of Christ, Matt. 19:28; 25:31; Acts 2:30; Rev. 1:4; 3:21; 4:2–10; 7:9–17; 19:4; 21:5; 22:3.

God has a heavenly court: Gen. 1:26; 11;7; Job 1:6.

God even has nostrils: Ex 15:8; Job 4:9; Psalm 18:8, 15; Is. 65:5,

Listen to this passage from 2 Samuel 22:8:

Scripture Verse:

Then the earth reeled and rocked;
the foundations of the heavens trembled
and quaked, because he was angry.
Smoke went up from his nostrils,
and devouring fire from his mouth;
glowing coals flamed forth from him.
He bowed the heavens, and came down;
thick darkness was under his feet.
He rode on a cherub, and flew;
he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
He made darkness around him a canopy,
thick clouds, a gathering of water.
Out of the brightness before him
coals of fire flamed forth.
The Lord thundered from heaven;
the Most High uttered his voice.
He sent out arrows, and scattered them
—lightning, and routed them.
Then the channels of the sea were seen,
the foundations of the world were laid bare
at the rebuke of the Lord,
at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Can you picture this? Sounds like Zeus to me, and Zeus was pictured with a physical body.

The gods of surrounding cultures had human and physical characteristics. There is no reason to suppose the Hebrews thought differently about their God from what we read in the OT. The burden of proof is upon the conservative Christian to show why they don’t think of God in a human form. Mormons today take these statements literally and believe God has the shape of a human being, so if modern people like Mormons think this way, then it’s not so unlikely that ancient Hebrews did.

Michelangelo’s painting of the creation of Adam may actually reflect the ancient Hebrew view of God creating man.

From Exodus 33:
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

This is strange if God wasn't viewed as having a body. Please explain what God meant when he purportedly said, “There is a place near me.... What would that mean to people who thought God walked in the Garden of Eden and who thought God rested after creation?

Christians will argue that passages in the Bible about their conceptions of the universe and about God having a body are both phenomenal and anthropomorphic. Where is the word "anthropomorphism" in the Bible such that we'll know how to interpret a passage properly when it is "red flagged" with that word? I don't have such a Bible, do you? The only reason they call these things anthropomorphic (and phenomenal) is because they are misreading the texts in their original setting based upon later or hindsight understandings (i.e.,you're doing eisegesis, not exegesis).

What we have in the Bible is an evolving understanding of the nature of God, so we find later statements to the contrary, i.e, that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

Christians grab on to the final view of God reflected in the Bible, especially the NT, and say that this is what they believed all along. It's called, from their perspective, a progressive view of revelation. Liberals simply say that Christian understandings about God have continued to evolve past the canonical texts.

Tell me this. Start reading the canonical Bible from the beginning. Tell me where you read the first statement that clearly specifies that God is a spirit, with no possible meaning otherwise. That should clear the whole thing up.

I suppose that God also has wings? (Ruth 2:12, Psalms 17:8, Psalms 36:7, Psalms 57:1, Psalms 61:4, Psalms 63:7, Psalms 91:4,)

I personally believe that God, for the purpose of allowing the ancient people to have a further fellowship with him, at times took on the form of a human. Anyway, there is plenty of evidence from the Old Testament that God is a spirit:

Genesis 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Exodus 31:3 (New International Version)

3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts-


Exodus 35:31 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts-


Numbers 24:2 (New International Version)

2 When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him


1 Samuel 10:10 (New International Version)

10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying.


1 Samuel 11:6 (New International Version)

6 When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger.


1 Samuel 19:20 (New International Version)

20 so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came upon Saul's men and they also prophesied.


1 Samuel 19:23 (New International Version)

23 So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.


2 Chronicles 15:1 (New International Version)

The Spirit of God came upon Azariah son of Oded.


2 Chronicles 24:20 (New International Version)

20 Then the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest. He stood before the people and said, "This is what God says: 'Why do you disobey the LORD's commands? You will not prosper. Because you have forsaken the LORD, he has forsaken you.' "


Job 33:4 (New International Version)

4 The Spirit of God has made me;
the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


Psalm 106:33 (New International Version)

for they rebelled against the Spirit of God,
and rash words came from Moses' lips.


Ezekiel 11:24 (New International Version)

The Spirit lifted me up and brought me to the exiles in Babylonia in the vision given by the Spirit of God.
Then the vision I had seen went up from me,


Clearly there was some sort of spirit that was associated with God through much of the Old Testament.

Originally posted by Doubting John

As for Jason, I never believed this as a Christian. But I think it has merit now, okay? Sheesh.

So what you are saying is that you lost a few dozen IQ points when you abandoned the faith ?

You didn't quote the feather passages in your list, either you were ignorant of them (so much for being a great learned christian) or else you are intentionally seeking to deceive people with this thesis by leaving out these obvious and devestating counter examples. Many of the quotes you site of God's supposed body come from Psalms so I find it hard to believe you missed this if you are doing your own research.

Which is it ? Are you an idiot or deliberately seeking to deceive people ?

My guess is the latter, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

Jason

Originally posted by JSDileo

I suppose that God also has wings? (Ruth 2:12, Psalms 17:8, Psalms 36:7, Psalms 57:1, Psalms 61:4, Psalms 63:7, Psalms 91:4,)

I personally believe that God, for the purpose of allowing the ancient people to have a further fellowship with him, at times took on the form of a human. Anyway, there is plenty of evidence from the Old Testament that God is a spirit:

Genesis 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Exodus 31:3 (New International Version)

3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts-


Exodus 35:31 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts-


Numbers 24:2 (New International Version)

2 When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him


1 Samuel 10:10 (New International Version)

10 When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying.


1 Samuel 11:6 (New International Version)

6 When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger.


1 Samuel 19:20 (New International Version)

20 so he sent men to capture him. But when they saw a group of prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing there as their leader, the Spirit of God came upon Saul's men and they also prophesied.


1 Samuel 19:23 (New International Version)

23 So Saul went to Naioth at Ramah. But the Spirit of God came even upon him, and he walked along prophesying until he came to Naioth.


2 Chronicles 15:1 (New International Version)

The Spirit of God came upon Azariah son of Oded.


2 Chronicles 24:20 (New International Version)

20 Then the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest. He stood before the people and said, "This is what God says: 'Why do you disobey the LORD's commands? You will not prosper. Because you have forsaken the LORD, he has forsaken you.' "


Job 33:4 (New International Version)

4 The Spirit of God has made me;
the breath of the Almighty gives me life.


Psalm 106:33 (New International Version)

for they rebelled against the Spirit of God,
and rash words came from Moses' lips.


Ezekiel 11:24 (New International Version)

The Spirit lifted me up and brought me to the exiles in Babylonia in the vision given by the Spirit of God.
Then the vision I had seen went up from me,


Clearly there was some sort of spirit that was associated with God through much of the Old Testament.

Good job! The best translation of ruah in Genesis 1:2 is wind. Job's verse is parallelistic, with breath and spirit being interchangable. Did you know that Aristotle believed there was wind because the earth breathed? So it's not hard to see how that breath and spirit could be considered the same thing. The others we'll have to see about the exact dates they were written. Otherwise, YOU have the problem here. Which was it, body or spirit? Sure there is plenty of imagery in the Bible. I don't deny this. But when the language used is the same type of language to describe other gods and goddesses in the surrounding cultures, then YOU'VE got the problem of showing why the Hebrews thought the language was imagery. Where exactly can we find a uniform belief of God's nature in the Bible?

Originally posted by Doubting John

Good job! The best translation of ruah in Genesis 1:2 is wind. Job's verse is parallelistic, with breath and spirit being interchangable. Did you know that Aristotle believed there was wind because the earth breathed? So it's not hard to see how that breath and spirit could be considered the same thing.

Hmm. Maybe, I'd have to do some research on the meaning of the word sometime.

The others we'll have to see about the exact dates they were written.

Wait, are you going to start resorting to JEDPesque theorizing to explain away the other verses? There are plenty of refutations of alleged late dates for the Pentateuch and the JEDP hypothesis to be found. Anyway, if you're going to appeal to this then it opens up a whole other argument. Those other verses are strong evidence that there was a spirit associated with God in the Old Testament and that this spirit was regarded as being God.

Otherwise, YOU have the problem here. Which was it, body or spirit? Sure there is plenty of imagery in the Bible. I don't deny this. But when the language used is the same type of language to describe other gods and goddesses in the surrounding cultures, then YOU'VE got the problem of showing why the Hebrews thought the language was imagery. Where exactly can we find a uniform belief of God's nature in the Bible?

Why can't they be imagery? The Hebrews used imagery to convey certain ideas about God's nature in their writings. God has a scepter and a footstool in certain passages as a way to emphasize how He is king over humanity, for instance. Why do we have to say that this isn't imagery when the VAST majority of these passages are found in POETICAL writings where such imagery would be EXPECTED?

Originally posted by Doubting John

Christians will argue that passages in the Bible about their conceptions of the universe and about God having a body are both phenomenal and anthropomorphic. Where is the word "anthropomorphism" in the Bible such that we'll know how to interpret a passage properly when it is "red flagged" with that word? I don't have such a Bible, do you? The only reason they call these things anthropomorphic (and phenomenal) is because they are misreading the texts in their original setting based upon later or hindsight understandings (i.e.,you're doing eisegesis, not exegesis).

Holy crap.

Are you seriously saying that because there is no word translated as "anthropomorphism" in the Bible that we can't tell when certain passages are anthropomorphisms?

That's really screwball worthy.

Originally posted by JSDileo

Holy crap.

Are you seriously saying that because there is no word translated as "anthropomorphism" in the Bible that we can't tell when certain passages are anthropomorphisms?

That's really screwball worthy.

No, I'm saying that it is people who say that such and such a passage is anthropomorphic. Using that word to describe a text is an act of interpretation. I use such words all the time. But when we say a passage is anthropomorphic, it's not because the text specifically says that it is. It's a judgement we make, and I maintain that when you use the word to describe some of the passages I've mentioned, you do so from a hindsight understanding.

Originally posted by Doubting John

I think so.

The Bible states that man and woman are to have been created in the image/likeness of God in three passages in the early chapters of Genesis (Gen 1:26–28; 5:1–3; 9:6), for instance: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” (Genesis 1:27)

About this listen to the Anchor Bible Dictionary (“Image of God’) Gen 5:1–2 makes it clear that both male and female are included under the designation adam who was made in God’s image. Gen 5:3 reports that Adam fathered a son “in his likeness, according to his image,” and the verse employs the same nouns used in Gen 1:26–27, though the order of the nouns and the prepositions used with each are reversed in comparison to Gen 1:26. This suggests that the way in which a son resembles his father is in some sense analogous to the way in which the human is like God.

And read this from the Harper’s Bible Dictionary (“Image Of God”), which is more to the point: “To speak of human beings (‘Adam’) as created in the image of God apparently refers primarily to the bodily form (the Hebrew term for ‘image’ usually denotes a concrete likeness) but also to the spiritual attributes the physical body symbolizes.”

If we want to know just what that image is, we should consider some of these passages that describe God with a human form:

Genesis 2:2: "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

But only a physical being needs to rest.

Genesis 3:8: "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Shouldn't this verse settle the whole debate?


God has ears: Psa. 17:6; Psa. 39:12; Psa. 77:1; Psa. 80:1; Psa. 84:8.

God has eyes: Psa. 33:18, 19; Psa. 34:15 Amos 9:8; 1 Pet. 3:12. Psa. 121:3–5; Isa. 1:15; Isa. 3:8; Hab. 1:13; Matt. 6:22; Luke 11:34.

God has hands: Num. 11:23; is mighty, Josh. 4:24; was heavy, 1 Sam. 5:6; against the Philistines, 1 Sam. 7:13; on Elijah, 1 Kin. 18:46; not shortened, Isa. 59:1; was with the early Christians, Acts 11:21.

God has a footstool: The earth is God’s, Isa. 60:13; 66:1; Lam. 2:1; Acts 7:49.

God has a scepter: Gen. 49:10; Num. 24:17; Isa. 9:4.

God sits on a throne: 2 Chr. 18:18; Psa. 9:4, 7; 11:4; 47:8; 89:14; 97:2; 103:19; Isa. 6:1; 66:1; Matt. 5:34; 23:22; Heb. 8:1; 12:2; Rev. 14:3, 5; of Christ, Matt. 19:28; 25:31; Acts 2:30; Rev. 1:4; 3:21; 4:2–10; 7:9–17; 19:4; 21:5; 22:3.

God has a heavenly court: Gen. 1:26; 11;7; Job 1:6.

God even has nostrils: Ex 15:8; Job 4:9; Psalm 18:8, 15; Is. 65:5,

Listen to this passage from 2 Samuel 22:8:

Scripture Verse:

Then the earth reeled and rocked;
the foundations of the heavens trembled
and quaked, because he was angry.
Smoke went up from his nostrils,
and devouring fire from his mouth;
glowing coals flamed forth from him.
He bowed the heavens, and came down;
thick darkness was under his feet.
He rode on a cherub, and flew;
he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
He made darkness around him a canopy,
thick clouds, a gathering of water.
Out of the brightness before him
coals of fire flamed forth.
The Lord thundered from heaven;
the Most High uttered his voice.
He sent out arrows, and scattered them
—lightning, and routed them.
Then the channels of the sea were seen,
the foundations of the world were laid bare
at the rebuke of the Lord,
at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Can you picture this? Sounds like Zeus to me, and Zeus was pictured with a physical body.

The gods of surrounding cultures had human and physical characteristics. There is no reason to suppose the Hebrews thought differently about their God from what we read in the OT. The burden of proof is upon the conservative Christian to show why they don’t think of God in a human form. Mormons today take these statements literally and believe God has the shape of a human being, so if modern people like Mormons think this way, then it’s not so unlikely that ancient Hebrews did.

Michelangelo’s painting of the creation of Adam may actually reflect the ancient Hebrew view of God creating man.

From Exodus 33:
18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

This is strange if God wasn't viewed as having a body. Please explain what God meant when he purportedly said, “There is a place near me.... What would that mean to people who thought God walked in the Garden of Eden and who thought God rested after creation?

Christians will argue that passages in the Bible about their conceptions of the universe and about God having a body are both phenomenal and anthropomorphic. Where is the word "anthropomorphism" in the Bible such that we'll know how to interpret a passage properly when it is "red flagged" with that word? I don't have such a Bible, do you? The only reason they call these things anthropomorphic (and phenomenal) is because they are misreading the texts in their original setting based upon later or hindsight understandings (i.e.,you're doing eisegesis, not exegesis).

What we have in the Bible is an evolving understanding of the nature of God, so we find later statements to the contrary, i.e, that "God is a Spirit" (John 4:24).

Christians grab on to the final view of God reflected in the Bible, especially the NT, and say that this is what they believed all along. It's called, from their perspective, a progressive view of revelation. Liberals simply say that Christian understandings about God have continued to evolve past the canonical texts.

Tell me this. Start reading the canonical Bible from the beginning. Tell me where you read the first statement that clearly specifies that God is a spirit, with no possible meaning otherwise. That should clear the whole thing up.

DJ, I started looking up some of the passages you cited for God allegedly having a body, and the more passages that I look up, to be frank, the more and more stupid your original idea becomes.

God has arms: Ex. 6:6; Ex. 15:16; Deut. 4:34 Deut. 7:19; 9:29; 26:8; Acts 13:17. Deut. 5:15 Psa. 136:12. Deut. 11:2; Deut. 33:27; 1 Kin. 8:42 2 Chr. 6:32. 2 Kin. 17:36; Psa. 77:15; Psa. 89:10, 13, 21; Psa. 98:1; Song 2:6; Isa. 33:2; Isa. 40:10, 11; Isa. 51:5, 9; Isa. 52:10; Isa. 53:1; Isa. 59:16; Isa. 62:8; Isa. 63:5, 12; Jer. 21:5 Ezek. 20:33. Jer. 27:5 Jer. 32:17. Luke 1:51.

Let's look at each of these verses one by one:

Exodus 6:6 (New International Version)

6 "Therefore, say to the Israelites: 'I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the yoke of the Egyptians. I will free you from being slaves to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with mighty acts of judgment.

So, did God, when he liberated the Israelites, use a giant arm to squash Pharoah?

Exodus 15:15-17 (New International Version)

(You quoted Exodus 15:16)

15 The chiefs of Edom will be terrified,
the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling,
the people [a] of Canaan will melt away;

16 terror and dread will fall upon them.
By the power of your arm
they will be as still as a stone—
until your people pass by, O LORD,
until the people you bought pass by.

17 You will bring them in and plant them
on the mountain of your inheritance—
the place, O LORD, you made for your dwelling,
the sanctuary, O Lord, your hands established.

So, if this passage is totally literal, then did the Caananite people literally melt when the Israelites attacked? Of course not. This passage can best be decided to be a description of what the Lord has done, and is a passage that uses metaphorical imagery.

Deuteronomy 4:34 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

34 Has any god ever tried to take for himself one nation out of another nation, by testings, by miraculous signs and wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, or by great and awesome deeds, like all the things the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your very eyes?

Did God literally use an arm when he freed Israel from Egypt? Did he take his arm and swat all the locusts away and into Egypt? Of course not. This can best be described as metaphorical imagery.

Deuteronomy 7:19 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

19 You saw with your own eyes the great trials, the miraculous signs and wonders, the mighty hand and outstretched arm, with which the LORD your God brought you out. The LORD your God will do the same to all the peoples you now fear.

Did God perform all his miracles by literally using an arm? Of course not. This can be best assumed to be metaphorical imagery.

Deuteronomy 9:29 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

29 But they are your people, your inheritance that you brought out by your great power and your outstretched arm."

It should be getting obvious by now that the terminology of "outstretched arm" is metaphorical for the fact that God received Israel. To say that God literally outstretched an arm when he liberated Israel is absurd.

Deuteronomy 26:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

8 So the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, with great terror and with miraculous signs and wonders.

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery.

Acts 13:17 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

17The God of the people of Israel chose our fathers; he made the people prosper during their stay in Egypt, with mighty power he led them out of that country,

This passage doesn't even mention an arm!

Deuteronomy 5:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery.

Psalm 136:12 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

12 with a mighty hand and outstretched arm;
His love endures forever.

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery. ( Are you noticing how this is explaining almost ALL of these passages that you have cited?)

Deuteronomy 11:2 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

2 Remember today that your children were not the ones who saw and experienced the discipline of the LORD your God: his majesty, his mighty hand, his outstretched arm;

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery. ( Are you noticing how this is explaining almost ALL of these passages that you have cited?)

Deuteronomy 33:27 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

27 The eternal God is your refuge,
and underneath are the everlasting arms.
He will drive out your enemy before you,
saying, 'Destroy him!'

Did God literally shield Israel under gigantic arms when they left Egypt and were attacking Canaan? Of course not. This is metaphorical imagery describing how God protected Israel when they left Egypt.

1 Kings 8:42 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

42 for men will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when he comes and prays toward this temple,

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery. ( Are you noticing how this is explaining almost ALL of these passages that you have cited?)

2 Chronicles 6:32 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

32 "As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched arm—when he comes and prays toward this temple,

AGAIN, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery. ( Are you noticing how this is explaining almost ALL of these passages that you have cited?)

2 Kings 17:36 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

36 But the LORD, who brought you up out of Egypt with mighty power and outstretched arm, is the one you must worship. To him you shall bow down and to him offer sacrifices.

AGAIN, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery. ( Are you noticing how this is explaining almost ALL of these passages that you have cited?)

Ok, did I seriously need to say that?

Psalm 77:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

15 With your mighty arm you redeemed your people,
the descendants of Jacob and Joseph.
Selah

Did God literally use an arm when redeeming Israel from Egypt? Did He take his arm, gather blood from another part of the globe, and throw the blood into the Nile? Did he gather frogs from all the corners of the globe and throw them into the Nile so that they would rise up out of it and terrorize the Egyptians? Did he put his arms over Egypt to make darkness over the land? Did he take his arm and smash all the livestock in the land of Egypt with a giant fist? Did he take an arm and with it tore down the walls of Jericho? Did he use an arm to do ANY of the great deeds in Israel's past? Nope. This is metaphorical imagery.

Psalm 89:10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

10 You crushed Rahab like one of the slain;
with your strong arm you scattered your enemies.

How did God literally use an arm to destroy his enemies in the Bible? He never did such a thing. This is metaphorical, anthropomorphic imagery.

Psalm 89:13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Your arm is endued with power;
your hand is strong, your right hand exalted.

Considering that this is occurring just three verses after a place in the Psalms where the term "arm" was used metaphorically, there is no reason to believe that this is also not a metaphor.

Psalm 89:20-21 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

(When more than one verse is quoted for sake of context, the boldened verse will be the verse that you quoted for support of your thesis)

20 I have found David my servant;
with my sacred oil I have anointed him.

21 My hand will sustain him;
surely my arm will strengthen him.

Did God literally use his hand to strengthen David? When David was weak, did God reach down a giant hand from heaven and allow David to fall into it and sleep on it? Of course not. This is metaphorical imagery describing how God supported David, but there is no reason to assume that an actual hand was involved as described in this passage.

Psalm 98:1 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

1 Sing to the LORD a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.

This is occurring in a Psalm, which is a piece of poetry. As such, there is no reason to assume that this isn't an anthropomorphism on the part of the writer.

Song of Solomon 2:6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

6 His left arm is under my head,
and his right arm embraces me.

This isn't even talking about God, but about the woman's lover! Did you even read it, or did you copy/paste this list of verses from some crackpot website?

Isaiah 33:2 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

2 O LORD, be gracious to us;
we long for you.
Be our strength every morning,
our salvation in time of distress.

This verse doesn't even mention an arm!

Isaiah 40:10-11 (you quoted both these verses)

10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him.

11 He tends his flock like a shepherd:
He gathers the lambs in his arms
and carries them close to his heart;
he gently leads those that have young.

Does God literally have sheep that he goes and carries? Were the people of Israel literally little sheep that walk around eating grass? Of course not. This is obviously metaphorical imagery describing how God has taken care of Israel.

Isaiah 51:5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

5 My righteousness draws near speedily,
my salvation is on the way,
and my arm will bring justice to the nations.
The islands will look to me
and wait in hope for my arm.

Is God's arm literally going to be smashing other nations? Is there going to be a giant arm coming from the sky that will be squashing people in Babylon like little bugs? This is metaphorical.

Isaiah 51:9 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

9 Awake, awake! Clothe yourself with strength,
O arm of the LORD;
awake, as in days gone by,
as in generations of old.
Was it not you who cut Rahab to pieces,
who pierced that monster through?

This passage does mention an arm, but how is God going to literally going to clothe his arm with strength? Strength is not a cloth. Obviously this passage is metaphorical. There is no reason to believe otherwise.

Isaiah 52:10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

10 The LORD will lay bare his holy arm
in the sight of all the nations,
and all the ends of the earth will see
the salvation of our God.

Is God literally going to take a giant arm and place it on the Earth for all the nations to see? Obviously this is metaphorical imagery.

Isaiah 53:1 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

This would be a bit strange, considering that Moses saw God in a body on the mountain of Sinai. (I do believe that God made himself incarnate in a body at times, but that this wasn't his permanent state) This wouldn't be a story that the writer of Isaiah would have been unfamiliar with. This should best be believed to be metaphorical.

Isaiah 59:15-17 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

15 Truth is nowhere to be found,
and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
The LORD looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.

16 He saw that there was no one,
he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;
so his own arm worked salvation for him,
and his own righteousness sustained him.

17 He put on righteousness as his breastplate,
and the helmet of salvation on his head;
he put on the garments of vengeance
and wrapped himself in zeal as in a cloak.

This passage does mention an arm, but it immediately afterwards has God putting on a breastplate made out of righteousness, a helmet made of salvation, a garment made of vengeance, and a cloak made of zeal! Obviously this must be metaphorical.

Isaiah 62:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

8 The LORD has sworn by his right hand
and by his mighty arm:
"Never again will I give your grain
as food for your enemies,
and never again will foreigners drink the new wine
for which you have toiled;

Did God literally put up his right hand and say out loud that he would never let Israel's enemies take Israel's food? This is simply an anthropomorphic image describing how God has given on oath to Israel, using imagery that would be familiar to everyday Israelites from their own personal affairs. There is no reason to take this literally.

Isaiah 63:3-6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

3 "I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.

4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart,
and the year of my redemption has come.

5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm worked salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me.

6 I trampled the nations in my anger;
in my wrath I made them drunk
and poured their blood on the ground."

This passage does mention an arm, but it also has God trampling on the nations! Did God literally step down from heaven and stomp on the Babylonians, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Moabites, and all the other nations surrounding Israel? This can only be considered to be metaphorical.

saiah 63:12 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

12 who sent his glorious arm of power
to be at Moses' right hand,
who divided the waters before them,
to gain for himself everlasting renown,

A literal interpetation of this passage would be hilarious. I'm sorry, but I find the idea of a disembodied arm next to Moses giving Moses power to be...well, you can understand. At least, I think you can.

Jeremiah 21:3-5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

3 But Jeremiah answered them, "Tell Zedekiah, 4 'This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: I am about to turn against you the weapons of war that are in your hands, which you are using to fight the king of Babylon and the Babylonians [a] who are outside the wall besieging you. And I will gather them inside this city. 5 I myself will fight against you with an outstretched hand and a mighty arm in anger and fury and great wrath.

Was Jeremiah saying that God was literally going to fight Zedekiah with his arm? Of course not; this is metaphorical and can't be considered to be literal.

Ezekiel 20:33 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

33 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will rule over you with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath.

Again, same as all the other "outstretched arm" passages. This is a metaphor about how God received Israel and took care of Israel upon leaving Egypt. There is no reason to assume that this is anything other than imagery.

Jeremiah 27:5 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

5 With my great power and outstretched arm I made the earth and its people and the animals that are on it, and I give it to anyone I please.

This is like all the other outstretched arm passages, except it's talking about a larger group than Israel. There is no reason to assume that this isn't metaphorical, mainly because God didn't make the Earth with his arm, he made it by speaking.

Jeremiah 32:17 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

17 "Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.

Again, God made the Earth by speaking, not literally with an arm.

Luke 1:51 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.

What mighty deeds, in either the Old or New Testaments, did God literally perform mighty deeds with his arm? There aren't any.

I don't think your passages for God having ears, eyes, and hands will do any better than how horrendously your passages for God having arms did.

Well, DJ, now that I've torn you to shreds, will you admit that you're thesis is crap?

Originally posted by Doubting John

I knew this would get your attention, JP. Give it your best shot. As for Jason, I never believed this as a Christian. But I think it has merit now, okay? Sheesh.

And for the record, I do not believe that the Bible concludes God has a body, so this isn't a Mormon argument. I'm making the case that the early Hebrews probably thought so.

Hmmm. So you apparently understand the context and the idioms and such of the OT better than the Jews of the time did.....

Seriously DJ. This is just weak. I am reminded of when Augustine gave his objections to Ambrose before he converted, that these were the same kinds of arguments that he gave and that Ambrose refuted way back then.

Merely reinventing the wheel. Give us something new please.

God has ears: Psa. 17:6; Psa. 39:12; Psa. 77:1; Psa. 80:1; Psa. 84:8.

Let's look at each of these verses one by one:

Psalm 17:6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

6 I call on you, O God, for you will answer me;
give ear to me and hear my prayer.

This is obviously poetry. David is using the idea of God having ears to symbolize how God knows that the writer of this psalm is pleading to him and that He knows what writer of this psalm is saying. It is used to symbolize God's knowledge. No need to see this as literal.

Psalm 39:12 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

12 "Hear my prayer, O LORD,
listen to my cry for help;
be not deaf to my weeping.
For I dwell with you as an alien,
a stranger, as all my fathers were.

Umm, John, this passage doesn't mention an ear.

Psalm 77:1
For the director of music. For Jeduthun. Of Asaph. A psalm.
1 I cried out to God for help;
I cried out to God to hear me.

Wow, two verses in a row that don't mention ears! DJ, you're on a roll today!

Psalm 80:1 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

1 Hear us, O Shepherd of Israel,
you who lead Joseph like a flock;
you who sit enthroned between the cherubim, shine forth

Ok, this is the third verse that you have cited for your idea that God has ears that didn't even mention the word "ear". Seriously John, this is so pathetic that it's not even funny.

Psalm 84:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

8 Hear my prayer, O LORD God Almighty;
listen to me, O God of Jacob.
Selah

Ok John, now this is getting hilarious! This is the FOURTH VERSE IN A ROW that you cited as evidence that the Israelites believed that God has ears that DIDN'T EVEN MENTION THE WORD!! Oh my gosh!

God has eyes: Psa. 33:18, 19; Psa. 34:15 Amos 9:8; 1 Pet. 3:12. Psa. 121:3–5; Isa. 1:15; Isa. 3:8; Hab. 1:13; Matt. 6:22; Luke 11:34.

Psalm 33:18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

18 But the eyes of the LORD are on those who fear him,
on those whose hope is in his unfailing love,

This is metaphorical imagery describing how God protects and 'watches out' for his followers, and is not required to be literal.

Psalm 34:15 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their cry;

Same thing as last time. This is metaphorical imagery describing how God protects and 'watches out' for his followers, and is not required to be literal.\

Amos 9:8 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

8 "Surely the eyes of the Sovereign LORD
are on the sinful kingdom.
I will destroy it
from the face of the earth—
yet I will not totally destroy
the house of Jacob,"
declares the LORD.

This is metaphorical imagery describing how God is going to bring judgement on sinners. No need to be literal whatsoever.

That's it John. I'm sick of this. I've spent the last two hours debunking this idiocy, and my eyes hurt. I'm going to bed. 'Night.

I did copy and paste some of these from Nave's Topical Bible, that is true.

But seriously what do you think of these passages:

Genesis 2:2: "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made."

But only a physical being needs to rest.

Genesis 3:8: "They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Shouldn't this verse settle the whole debate?

Listen to this passage from 2 Samuel 22:8:

Scripture Verse:

Then the earth reeled and rocked;
the foundations of the heavens trembled
and quaked, because he was angry.
Smoke went up from his nostrils,
and devouring fire from his mouth;
glowing coals flamed forth from him.
He bowed the heavens, and came down;
thick darkness was under his feet.
He rode on a cherub, and flew;
he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
He made darkness around him a canopy,
thick clouds, a gathering of water.
Out of the brightness before him
coals of fire flamed forth.
The Lord thundered from heaven;
the Most High uttered his voice.
He sent out arrows, and scattered them
—lightning, and routed them.
Then the channels of the sea were seen,
the foundations of the world were laid bare
at the rebuke of the Lord,
at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Can you picture this? Sounds like Zeus to me, and Zeus was pictured with a physical body.

From Exodus 33:

18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

This is strange if God wasn't viewed as having a body. Please explain what God meant when he purportedly said, “There is a place near me.... What would that mean to people who thought God walked in the Garden of Eden and who thought God rested after creation?

Are you aware DJ that the Jews in a targum of Genesis 3:8 said that the Memra of the Lord walked through the garden?

Ya know what Memra is?