We have--

Scripture Verse:

Matthew 24
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 “So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!
34 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

I know of two definitions of the term, "this generation." They are--

1. That it can only refer to those to whom Jesus was speaking at the historical moment in 33 AD when he spoke the words, or

2. That it refers to the "who" in v 33 that "see all these things" (things being that described earlier) and could refer to a future generation to come. It would be that generation that would be present when the last of the prophesied "things" would occur. Depending on how one identifies the "things," that generation might have been that generation that witnessd the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or a still future generation (possibly our generation).

Has anyone heard of another explanation for "this generation"?

Which view do people subscribe to and why?

12:10 (KJV) ".........................and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, ..................."

When was this prophecy fullfilled?

Originally posted by rhutchin

We have--

Scripture Verse:

Matthew 24
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 “So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!
34 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

I know of two definitions of the term, "this generation." They are--

1. That it can only refer to those to whom Jesus was speaking at the historical moment in 33 AD when he spoke the words, or

2. That it refers to the "who" in v 33 that "see all these things" (things being that described earlier) and could refer to a future generation to come. It would be that generation that would be present when the last of the prophesied "things" would occur. Depending on how one identifies the "things," that generation might have been that generation that witnessd the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or a still future generation (possibly our generation).

Has anyone heard of another explanation for "this generation"?

Which view do people subscribe to and why?

Yes. . .some teach, and I tend to agree, that "this generation," refers to the regenerate elect of that day, and to all the future regenerate believers who would issue from the "Seed," throughout church history, unto the last day. They are the ones who will be given eyes "to see all these things."

Nang

Originally posted by Nang

Yes. . .some teach, and I tend to agree, that "this generation," refers to the regenerate elect of that day, and to all the future regenerate believers who would issue from the "Seed," throughout church history, unto the last day. They are the ones who will be given eyes "to see all these things."

Nang

That's the most bewildering spin-job I've heard. That generation lived to see all those things happen - just as Christ said they would - it's that simple.

Originally posted by RanRan

That's the most bewildering spin-job I've heard. That generation lived to see all those things happen - just as Christ said they would - it's that simple.

You need to get out more. No matter how muddled that was - I have seen worse. Believe me. Much worse.

Originally posted by rhutchin

We have--

Scripture Verse:

Matthew 24
32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 “So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!
34 “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

I know of two definitions of the term, "this generation." They are--

1. That it can only refer to those to whom Jesus was speaking at the historical moment in 33 AD when he spoke the words, or

2. That it refers to the "who" in v 33 that "see all these things" (things being that described earlier) and could refer to a future generation to come. It would be that generation that would be present when the last of the prophesied "things" would occur. Depending on how one identifies the "things," that generation might have been that generation that witnessd the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD or a still future generation (possibly our generation).

Has anyone heard of another explanation for "this generation"?

Which view do people subscribe to and why?

What ever the complete answer is, it does seem that a lot of language gets completely lost, if one stops to realize that the Bible does give "time" sensitive warnings.

So much of the warnings become absurd, if they were not for those who were reading the immediate writings of those telling them that the "time is at hand".

Anyway...I guess this thread belongs in eschatology...doesn't it?

Moderated By: Apologiaphoenix

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Carry on.

Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren

You need to get out more. No matter how muddled that was - I have seen worse. Believe me. Much worse.

Muddled?

What is a "generation" but an issue of offspring in any given time.

The premise is there are physical offspring and there are spiritual offspring.

The flesh generates flesh and the spirit generates spirit.

If Jesus Christ was speaking to those regenerated (spiritual offspring of God) in His day, who had been given "eyes to see" the spiritual things of God . . .what precludes His words being applied to spiritual offspring generated by God throughout history?

Nang

Originally posted by Nang

Muddled?

What is a "generation" but an issue of offspring in any given time.
Nang

It's a group of people living at about same time. That's a generation. Always has been. Why the need for spin here, Nang? Is it because God's wrath may have been poured out on a specific generation and your need to continue that wrath against non-calvinists, that is to say, mankind in general?

Originally posted by RanRan

It's a group of people living at about same time.

Yes.

That's a generation. Always has been.

Yes.


There is physical life and there is spiritual life.

Is the terminology "generation" restricted to physical life and living, only?

If so, what is your Scriptural basis for that premise?

I contend that there are physical "generations" of life, as well as spiritual "generations" of lfe.

The former physical generations issued from Adam, and the latter spiritual generations issued by the last "Adam," Jesus Christ.

Nang

Originally posted by Nang

Is the terminology "generation" restricted to physical life and living, only?

If so, what is your Scriptural basis for that premise?
Nang

History. Human history. Since, in the spiritual, there are not generations added, human history determines generations.

Originally posted by RanRan

History. Human history. Since, in the spiritual, there are not generations added, human history determines generations.

That is your problem. Your consider "generations" to speak of physical reproduction only.

But God promised a "Seed" who would reproduce spiritual seeds (offspring) unto God. And throughout history there has been a spiritual lineage of men and women born of God.

To insist the term "generation" is earthly and temporal only, is to deny the regenerating and raising up of all the saints unto Christ throughout time.

Jesus Christ has produced "children." Christians are the "sons of God;" the spiritual offspring of Christ; who make up the spiritual "family of God;" His "generation" of believers and faithful, manifested since the days of Abel, Seth, Noah, Job, Abraham, Moses, David, the prophets and all the N.T. saints, etc.


Nang

If one can spin these verses around to mean anything other than that current generation then one can spin anything to mean anything.
The people who were spoken to would have taken it to mean that generation - hmm gee I wonder why I would think such a stupid thing?
Just read the rest of the new testament - seems like quite a lot of early followers expected Christ to return "very soon" - of course they may have been mislead because I guess they only had the Holy Spirit to guide them - not much of a guide I guess.

Originally posted by Lost

If one can spin these verses around to mean anything other than that current generation then one can spin anything to mean anything.

Do you deny that biblical prophesies often had immediate application as well as second or third future applications?

The people who were spoken to would have taken it to mean that generation

So? That does not rule out future application to others of the spiritual generation born of Christ, does it?

seems like quite a lot of early followers expected Christ to return "very soon" - of course they may have been mislead because I guess they only had the Holy Spirit to guide them - not much of a guide I guess.

Indeed they did. And Christ did not return in their lifetime. They saw their fellow believers dying, but Christ had not returned, yet. And they worried. And they suffered under scoffers who opposed the truths of the promises of God.

Does that alter the prophecy of which we speak?

Or is there additional Scripture that addresses this reality?

(See II Peter Chapter Three for the answer.)

Nang

Originally posted by Nang

Do you deny that biblical prophesies often had immediate application as well as second or third future applications?





So? That does not rule out future application to others of the spiritual generation born of Christ, does it?




Indeed they did. And Christ did not return in their lifetime. They saw their fellow believers dying, but Christ had not returned, yet. And they worried. And they suffered under scoffers who opposed the truths of the promises of God.

Does that alter the prophecy of which we speak?

Or is there additional Scripture that addresses this reality?

(See II Peter Chapter Three for the answer.)

Nang

I can't really add more than I have said - the early christians appear to have thought that Christ meant their generation - I can't see why I would be better equipped to understand the passage better than they - only because it appears to have been unfulfilled unless you take a preterist spiritual fullfilment viewpoint which is the most likely explanation I believe.

Of course to fit other more complex endtime theories we need to change the meanings a bit and make them more complex than they were - its all fun when you have a theory to fit I guess

Hi rhutchin.

I have rambled on at length about this verse in the thread "partial partial preterism" which is current, so I won't repeat myself here.

But I will give this crucial clue: if you want to understand what the phrase means, you must, repeat must, look at the other occurrences of the same phrase in the synoptic gospels and the rest of the NT. Look at Mt. 11:16, 12:41-42; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12; 13:30; Lk. 7:31; 11:29-32; 11:50-51; 17:25; 21:32. Then look at Hebrews 3:10.

The same phrase occurs in all these verses and nowhere else. Yes, it is the generation to whom Jesus spoke. But it also has a deeper mystical significance. It is the generation of the wicked; the generation that fell in the wilderness and did not inherit the promised land.