The Christian Dilemma

[EphremHagos]

(Or Simon Peter's Dilemma)

There is neither a gate to life more narrow nor a way that leads to it more hard (Matt. 7: 13-14) than accepting, in principle and practice, the salvation of God for all flesh as demonstrated in “the resurrection and the life” that is Jesus Christ or his once-and-for-all self-revelation as immortal right at his death on the cross (Matt. 16: 13-28; 27: 50-56; John 19: 30-37) far different from and greater than His post-resurrection appearances.

Witnesses-proper to His transcendental resurrection appearances include the following:
• An army officer, some soldiers, some women, Joseph of Arimathea, Mary Magdalene, the other Mary, Nicodemus, and “the disciple Jesus loved” all at the Premiere (Matt. 27: 50-56; John 19: 30-37);
• The Apostles during a 40-day rehabilitation (Acts 1: 1-5);
• 120 believers and 3,000 others Pentecost (Acts 2);
• Paul (Acts 9);
• Contemporaries of Paul ( “proclaiming the Lord’s death until he comes” 1 Cor. 11: 17-34); and
• Posterity (characterized inversely by total negligence and the “weeds”, Matt. 13: 24-30, 36-43; Rev. 5)

The criteria of judgment are given in John 3: 18-21.

More detailed identification of the false prophets and false believers is given in Matt. 7: 15-23.

All criticisms, especially constructive ones, are welcome!

[RBerman]

It is indeed difficult for many people to accept the gospel. In my experience, "I need the death and resurrection of Jesus" is more difficult for people to accept than "Jesus died and rose again" is.

[EphremHagos]

It is indeed difficult for many people to accept the gospel. In my experience, "I need the death and resurrection of Jesus" is more difficult for people to accept than "Jesus died and rose again" is.
Not sure that I understand the meaning in your second sentence. Please rephrase! Thank you!

[RBerman]

I find that many people can believe that Jesus died and rose again. They just don't believe that Jesus' death and resurrection are what can make them right with God. They think their own good works will suffice.

[Obsidian]

If you look throughout church history, even following the Reformation, it's really sad how quickly Christians have always created and clung to rules-based theology. Galatian Judaizers and Ebionites adhered to Jewish ceremonies. Gnostics and similar groups interpreted every saying of Jesus as new commands to live severe, ascetic lifestyles in opposition to the Jewish law -- E.g., a new command to "turn the other cheek" as defined by pacifism, or the embrace of a monastic or celibate lifestyle to become a "eunuch for the sake of the kingdom." Catholics and most early Christian writers seemingly embraced the idea of baptismal regeneration.

This trend occurred during the lifetime of the apostles, magnified immediately after their deaths, and continued even after Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Seventh Day Adventists and some other denominations are the modern-day Judaizers. Anabaptists and some dispensationalists resemble ancient Gnostics. Church of Christers believe in baptismal regeneration. And in just about any church, many people will adhere to certain legalistic rules. These people tend to be the ones with the least intelligence -- because rules are simple and easy to understand. Complex morality is harder, and the gospel itself is confusing when compared to basic morality and the Old Testament. Furthermore, only a small minority of Christians (imo) sincerely believe that they can have assurance of salvation based on sola fide. Many Christians say that they believe in it, but when you really press them on what would happen if they committed various horrible sins, they begin to express doubt.

Basically, people feel spiritual when they follow rules, whether they are OT rules, new "laws" created based on NT guidelines, or even completely unbiblical ordinances that they themselves have invented (e.g., monasticism). People are just screwed up. But then I guess that's why we need God.

[bc1980]

You better be careful. You will be deemed a heretic :wink:

[EphremHagos]

If you look throughout church history, even following the Reformation, it's really sad how quickly Christians have always created and clung to rules-based theology. Galatian Judaizers and Ebionites adhered to Jewish ceremonies. Gnostics and similar groups interpreted every saying of Jesus as new commands to live severe, ascetic lifestyles in opposition to the Jewish law -- E.g., a new command to "turn the other cheek" as defined by pacifism, or the embrace of a monastic or celibate lifestyle to become a "eunuch for the sake of the kingdom." Catholics and most early Christian writers seemingly embraced the idea of baptismal regeneration.

This trend occurred during the lifetime of the apostles, magnified immediately after their deaths, and continued even after Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Seventh Day Adventists and some other denominations are the modern-day Judaizers. Anabaptists and some dispensationalists resemble ancient Gnostics. Church of Christers believe in baptismal regeneration. And in just about any church, many people will adhere to certain legalistic rules. These people tend to be the ones with the least intelligence -- because rules are simple and easy to understand. Complex morality is harder, and the gospel itself is confusing when compared to basic morality and the Old Testament. Furthermore, only a small minority of Christians (imo) sincerely believe that they can have assurance of salvation based on sola fide. Many Christians say that they believe in it, but when you really press them on what would happen if they committed various horrible sins, they begin to express doubt.

Basically, people feel spiritual when they follow rules, whether they are OT rules, new "laws" created based on NT guidelines, or even completely unbiblical ordinances that they themselves have invented (e.g., monasticism). People are just screwed up. But then I guess that's why we need God.

Obsidian

Assurance of our salvation exclusively based on sola fide, i.e., “by faith alone” (Rom. 3:28; 4:16; Gal. 3:2) will be less meddled with if more Christians understand faith operationally defined as fruit of the Holy Spirit or a precious gift from God personally authored by Jesus Christ under unique conditions of self-revelation (John 8: 21-28; 19: 34-35; Heb. 12:2) and, therefore, referred to as “most sacred faith” (Jude 20)!

[NormATive]

(Or Simon Peter's Dilemma)

There is neither a gate to life more narrow nor a way that leads to it more hard (Matt. 7: 13-14) than accepting, in principle and practice, the salvation of God for all flesh as demonstrated in “the resurrection and the life” that is Jesus Christ or his once-and-for-all self-revelation as immortal right at his death on the cross (Matt. 16: 13-28; 27: 50-56; John 19: 30-37) far different from and greater than His post-resurrection appearances.



I am puzzled by your suggestion that this salvation is dependent on one's "accepting" it in concept. Does this mean that the salvation is indeed NOT "once for all," but, rather; once for those who accept in concept the mechanism of salvation.

Personally, I question the whole premise of salvation. I don't believe that G-d made a defective planet. What we perceive as a fallen world is nothing more than a misunderstanding of the true nature of things.

NORM

[EphremHagos]

PRELIMINARY, OPEN-ENDED EVALUTION
(Criterion: Observable, Verifiable and Absolute Works of God)

Explanation:
The dilemma is caused by changing the foundation of God's salvation from one based on conclusive and verifiable evidence of works of Jesus Christ to wholly another based on inconclusive evidence of claims by Jesus or by others about him strictly as per the teaching in Discipleship Training 101 (John 5: 31-36; 8: 21-28; 10: 17-18, 37-38; 12: 32-36; 19: 30-37 to be examined very carefully).

Evaluation:


It is indeed difficult for many people to accept the gospel. In my experience, "I need the death and resurrection of Jesus" is more difficult for people to accept than "Jesus died and rose again" is.

The reason why "it is difficult for many people to accept the Gospel" is, as you said, because their known needs are greater than what is given but not at all well known.

[QUOTE=RBerman; 2626517]

I find that many people can believe that Jesus died and rose again. They just don't believe that
Jesus' death and resurrection are what can make them right with God. They think their own good works will suffice. END QUOTE]

To say "can believe" is over-simplification and fraught with falsity. "Don't believe", on the other hand, shows ignorance of what God has single-handedly done to reveal himself in power and glory in Jesus Christ's death on the cross for "People to look at him whom they pierced" (Zech. 12:10 quoted in John 19:37) and enter into a whole new world right here and now!

[QUOTE=Obsidian=2626640]

If you look throughout church history, even following the Reformation, it's really sad how quickly Christians have always created and clung to rules-based theology. Galatian Judaizers and Ebionites adhered to Jewish ceremonies. Gnostics and similar groups interpreted every saying of Jesus as new commands to live severe, ascetic lifestyles in opposition to the Jewish law -- E.g., a new command to "turn the other cheek" as defined by pacifism, or the embrace of a monastic or celibate lifestyle to become a "eunuch for the sake of the kingdom." Catholics and most early Christian writers seemingly embraced the idea of baptismal regeneration.

This trend occurred during the lifetime of the apostles, magnified immediately after their deaths, and continued even after Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli. Seventh Day Adventists and some other denominations are the modern-day Judaizers. Anabaptists and some dispensationalists resemble ancient Gnostics. Church of Christers believe in baptismal regeneration. And in just about any church, many people will adhere to certain legalistic rules. These people tend to be the ones with the least intelligence -- because rules are simple and easy to understand. Complex morality is harder, and the gospel itself is confusing when compared to basic morality and the Old Testament. Furthermore, only a small minority of Christians (imo) sincerely believe that they can have assurance of salvation based on sola fide. Many Christians say that they believe in it, but when you really press them on what would happen if they committed various horrible sins, they begin to express doubt.

Basically, people feel spiritual when they follow rules, whether they are OT rules, new "laws" created based on NT guidelines, or even completely unbiblical ordinances that they themselves have invented (e.g., monasticism). People are just screwed up. But then I guess that's why we need God. END QUOTE]

I agree that we are bogged down in "rules-based theology" because of our extreme deviation from the work-of-God based, free-from-Scriptures and free-from-secularization/institutions Gospel of Jesus Christ ("new covenant") now fallen completely into men's hands and changed to "another gospel" --counterfeit!

[QUOTE=NormATive 2660360]

I am puzzled by your suggestion that this salvation is dependent on one's "accepting" it in concept. Does this mean that the salvation is indeed NOT "once for all," but, rather; once for those who accept in concept the mechanism of salvation.

Personally, I question the whole premise of salvation. I don't believe that G-d made a defective planet. What we perceive as a fallen world is nothing more than a misunderstanding of the true nature of things. END QUOTE]

Perhaps you will accept wholeheartedly the premise of salvation if you know it defined the following mutually inclusive ways:
1) "Knowing the only true God and knowing Jesus Christ" (John 17:3) and
2) "Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my Father wants me to do. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds, in order that you many know once and for all that the Father is in me and that I am in the Father" (John 10: 37-38).

If we bear this principle in mind, our attempts to identify the practice of defining works of Jesus will make our investigative study of the four gospels extremely rewarding! Here is a clue: you will find all of them in the Passion Week climaxing at Jesus' death on the cross!

GOD BLESS US ALL!