Post-mortem Verdict

[EphremHagos]

Post-mortem Verdict

Subject: JESUS CHRIST
Jury Members: 1st Century Eye-witness and Contemporaries

Verdict: Jesus Christ actually died by his own awesome authority rousing immediate as well as later spontaneous acknowledgement as “Son of God”, repentance, praise and worship of God.


Review: Case is hereby re-opened for critical review by 21st Century World Jury for which there are no required qualifications whatsoever!

All opinions are welcome!

[shunyadragon]

Post-mortem Verdict

Subject: JESUS CHRIST
Jury Members: 1st Century Eye-witness and Contemporaries

Verdict: Jesus Christ actually died by his own awesome authority rousing immediate as well as later spontaneous acknowledgement as “Son of God”, repentance, praise and worship of God.


Review: Case is hereby re-opened for critical review by 21st Century World Jury for which there are no required qualifications whatsoever!

All opinions are welcome!No known first hand witness or contemporary accounts or references made during his life and one generation after.

[EphremHagos]

No known first hand witness or contemporary accounts or references made during his life and one generation after.
POST-MORTEM VERDICT

As Jesus Christ himself has clearly taught, the weight and value of verifiable, primary evidence for his death by supernatural works, i.e., exclusively by his own free will and awesome authority, by far eclipses all secondary evidence such as claims even by Jesus on his own behalf and by others, of any period, about him (John 4: 21-24; 5: 31-40; 10: 17-18).

In valuing the witness of his works much more than his own words, he said:

“Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my
Father wants me to do. But if I do them, even though you
do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds in
order that you may know once and for all that the Father is
in me and I am in the Father.”
John 10: 37-38

The question of the millennium becomes:

“Did Jesus Christ die exclusively by his own free will and authority capable of producing true worship of the one true God by the power of his Spirit, as he is, i.e., without any frontiers (Jew, Christian, Muslim, Baha’i, etc.) in the 21st Century” ?

Validation of the evidence depends on as many findings as possible!

[shunyadragon]

POST-MORTEM VERDICT

As Jesus Christ himself has clearly taught, the weight and value of verifiable, primary evidence for his death by supernatural works, i.e., exclusively by his own free will and awesome authority, by far eclipses all secondary evidence such as claims even by Jesus on his own behalf and by others, of any period, about him (John 4: 21-24; 5: 31-40; 10: 17-18).

In valuing the witness of his works much more than his own words, he said:

“Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my
Father wants me to do. But if I do them, even though you
do not believe me, you should at least believe my deeds in
order that you may know once and for all that the Father is
in me and I am in the Father.”
John 10: 37-38

The question of the millennium becomes:

“Did Jesus Christ die exclusively by his own free will and authority capable of producing true worship of the one true God by the power of his Spirit, as he is, i.e., without any frontiers (Jew, Christian, Muslim, Baha’i, etc.) in the 21st Century” ?

Validation of the evidence depends on as many findings as possible!

I am trying to consider your case objectively in an unbiased way in a critical review, so far, no witnesses only claims. No verdict yet.

[faithofjob777]

Post-mortem Verdict

Subject: JESUS CHRIST
Jury Members: 1st Century Eye-witness and Contemporaries

Verdict: Jesus Christ actually died by his own awesome authority rousing immediate as well as later spontaneous acknowledgement as “Son of God”, repentance, praise and worship of God.


Review: Case is hereby re-opened for critical review by 21st Century World Jury for which there are no required qualifications whatsoever!
All opinions are welcome!

Hi, I am new here, but I would like to comment that it is not feasible to have no "required qualifications" for your "21st world jury." Does this mean that reasoning by cretins and young children also count? If they do not, then you will have to set the requirements for people having a sound mind (and what you believe a sound mind entails), as being those who shall be the appropriate members of the "world jury." The only problem is, your requirements for those with sound mind may be different from what another person will prefer those requirements to be.

And Scriptures define what a sound mind is too. So from all fronts, there is already a clash on the issue of who indeed can rightly see the truth about Jesus Christ. It will still take faith to either believe or reject Him.

Jaime

[shunyadragon]

Hi, I am new here, but I would like to comment that it is not feasible to have no "required qualifications" for your "21st world jury." Does this mean that reasoning by cretins and young children also count? If they do not, then you will have to set the requirements for people having a sound mind (and what you believe a sound mind entails), as being those who shall be the appropriate members of the "world jury." The only problem is, your requirements for those with sound mind may be different from what another person will prefer those requirements to be.

And Scriptures define what a sound mind is too. So from all fronts, there is already a clash on the issue of who indeed can rightly see the truth about Jesus Christ. It will still take faith to either believe or reject Him.

Jaime

Agreed.

[EphremHagos]

Hi, I am new here, but I would like to comment that it is not feasible to have no "required qualifications" for your "21st world jury." Does this mean that reasoning by cretins and young children also count? If they do not, then you will have to set the requirements for people having a sound mind (and what you believe a sound mind entails), as being those who shall be the appropriate members of the "world jury." The only problem is, your requirements for those with sound mind may be different from what another person will prefer those requirements to be.

And Scriptures define what a sound mind is too. So from all fronts, there is already a clash on the issue of who indeed can rightly see the truth about Jesus Christ. It will still take faith to either believe or reject Him.

Jaime
c.c shunyadragon

The handicapped are you, shunyadragon, me and our likes, i.e., the literate and self-reliant who demand to sift through the physical evidence and, reject the supernatural.
God has his shortcuts for dealing with the physically and mentally handicapped and young children, i.,e, the less self-reliant who, nevertheless, can see "the light" much easier and faster than us. For a good illustration, see the story of Bartimaeus who, although blind could "see" and praise God much better than those with their full sights as reported in all the synoptic gospels (Matt.. 20: 29-34; Mark 10: 46-52; Luke 18: 35-43) and aptly qualified by Jesus in connection with another case of a man born blind (John 9: 39-41) with the following conclusive words: "I came to this world ... so that the blind should see and those who see should become blind." ... "If you were blind, then you would not be guilty; but since you claim that you can see, this means that you are still guilty".

Therefore, the case is open for us --the spiritually handicapped!

[Abelard]

The synoptic gospels agree Jesus said He must suffer and die at the hands of the elders, chief priests and scribes. This would make the passion of our Lord a gift from Him to us, and part of a divine plan.

The lack of any particular evidence makes no statement.

[shunyadragon]

The synoptic gospels agree Jesus said He must suffer and die at the hands of the elders, chief priests and scribes. This would make the passion of our Lord a gift from Him to us, and part of a divine plan.

The lack of any particular evidence makes no statement.

Unfortunately he was convicted, executed by crucified under Roman Law.

[shunyadragon]

c.c shunyadragon

The handicapped are you, shunyadragon, me and our likes, i.e., the literate and self-reliant who demand to sift through the physical evidence and, reject the supernatural.
God has his shortcuts for dealing with the physically and mentally handicapped and young children, i.,e, the less self-reliant who, nevertheless, can see "the light" much easier and faster than us. For a good illustration, see the story of Bartimaeus who, although blind could "see" and praise God much better than those with their full sights as reported in all the synoptic gospels (Matt.. 20: 29-34; Mark 10: 46-52; Luke 18: 35-43) and aptly qualified by Jesus in connection with another case of a man born blind (John 9: 39-41) with the following conclusive words: "I came to this world ... so that the blind should see and those who see should become blind." ... "If you were blind, then you would not be guilty; but since you claim that you can see, this means that you are still guilty".

Therefore, the case is open for us --the spiritually handicapped!

Irrelevant, not the subject of the thread. Please present evidence. I believe in God, but want to see the evidence for the 21st century jury to support this case. No verdict yet.

[shunyadragon]

The synoptic gospels agree Jesus said He must suffer and die at the hands of the elders, chief priests and scribes. This would make the passion of our Lord a gift from Him to us, and part of a divine plan.

The lack of any particular evidence makes no statement.

This a 21st century jury trial, the lack of any particular evidence will lead to the dismissal of the case.

[EphremHagos]

No known first hand witness or contemporary accounts or references made during his life and one generation after.
Are your sure?

[EphremHagos]

I am trying to consider your case objectively in an unbiased way in a critical review, so far, no witnesses only claims. No verdict yet.
Thank you for declaring yourself ready to consider the case objectively and critically. Please feel free to search for the literally hard evidence in the records of the gospels until I present them to the Jury (Forum) soon! This will make your contribution in the Jury more constructive.

[EphremHagos]

Irrelevant, not the subject of the thread. Please present evidence. I believe in God, but want to see the evidence for the 21st century jury to support this case. No verdict yet.
Please reserve your personal bias until the evidence is presented to you. Otherwise, the legitimacy of your membership in the Jury will be questioned.

[EphremHagos]

This a 21st century jury trial, the lack of any particular evidence will lead to the dismissal of the case.
Why is it assumed that particuclar evidence is lacking? I promise you there is hard and primary evidence if we look for it. It will be presented soon.

[shunyadragon]

Why is it assumed that particuclar evidence is lacking? I promise you there is hard and primary evidence if we look for it. It will be presented soon.

Waiting . . .

[faithofjob777]

What I intend to mean is this:

How we believe in God will determine why we would believe or reject Jesus Christ.

That is, if we believe God is this way, and not that way, that is already going to be the road we will take when we scrutinize the claims of Jesus Christ.

Hence, the Jews during the time of Christ rejected Him despite the miracles He showed, because they could not believe God would present His glory the way Jesus did.

Nowadays, the absence of miracles would still lead men to reject Jesus christ, because they also could not believe God would no longer be around to present more evidence for them to believe in.

Either way, there will always be men who will always find ways to reject Jesus Christ. It is not in the presence or absence of evidence after all, but their absolute denial of how God really is.

The discussion must then begin why we believe God is the way we believe He is. Or if we even believe there is God after all. Then and only then can this discussion proceed.

Jaime

[EphremHagos]

TO: SHUNYADRAGON, FAITHOFJOB777,ABELARD, ETC.

Post-mortem Verdict

At stake is, nothing less than, firsthand and personal knowledge of the self-revelation of Jesus Christ as the living, immortal God or “the Father” right in his death on the cross!

“Who are you?”
“When you life up the Son of Man, you will know that
‘I Am Who I Am’”. John 8: 21 - 28

To guide us in our investigation of the post-mortem of Jesus Christ, let us consider the following Law, Hypothesis, Assumptions and Proofs involved that can supposedly set in motion, for our verdict, spontaneous acknowledgement of Jesus as “Son of God” (immortal), repentance, praise and worship in Spirit and truth!

Law
“What gives life is God’s Spirit; man’s power is of no use at all.” John 6:63

Hypothesis
(Claims)
“No one takes my life away from me. I give it up of my own free will. I have the right to giver it up, and I have the right to take it back.” John 10:18

Assumptions
(Deeds)
“Do not believe me, then, if I am not doing the things my Father wants me to do. But if I do them, even though you do not believe in me, you should at least believe in my deeds, in order that you may know once and for all that the Father is in me and that I am in the Father.” John 10: 37-38

The assumption is the omni-presence of underlying, efficacious and energizing deeds of self-revelation!

Proofs

Preliminary deeds:
1. Fixing the Day
Single-handed matching the days of the killing of the Passover lambs and the crucifixion and death of the Son of Man (Matt. 26: 1-5)

2. Fixing the hour (Time #1)
Single-handed fixing the hour of arrest (John 12:27)

3. Identification for Arrest
Two preemptive self-identifications at the expense of Judas’ premeditated but failed betrayal (John 18: 1-9)

4. Self-surrender
Over-powering all the members of the arrest party to retreat and fall to the ground; laying down own terms for self-surrender; and disclaiming any help (John 18: 5-11)

5. “Guilty! By self-incrimination”
(Jewish Court)
Lack of incriminating evidence; guilty by self-incrimination; promise of imminent, hard and sustainable evidence identifying Jesus as “Messiah, Son of God” (John 18: 19-24; Matt. 26: 57-68)

6. Over-ruling Power of Appellate Judge
(Pilate)
Disregarding the authority of the Roman Governor (John 19: 10-16)

Final Deeds:
7. Crucifixion
Rebuttal of extensive and incessant mocking by soldiers, passers-by, chief priests, teachers of the Law, elders and one of the bandits in a 9-word, rhetorical question: “My God, my God, why did you abandon me?” (Matt. 27: 27-44)


8. Fixing the Hour (Time #2)
Textually and experientially verifiable death by own free will and awesome authority, in great power and glory, destroying the Devil’s power over death; outpouring of the Holy Spirit for his once and for all self-revelation for the world, parallel to and in a greater way than the burning bush in the desert as the self-sufficient fire/life or “I Am Who I Am” (Ex. 3: 1-15; John 8: 21-28; 14: 15-21; 19: 30-37; Matt. 27: 50-56)

Verdict

My Personal Vote
The vision I had on the cross of Christ was so deeply mysterious and powerful that all I knew for the next 20 years or so was my immediately transformed, new life (John 3: 1-21) and equally deep anxiety over its permanence for which this post-mortem verdict is my full assurance!

[shunyadragon]

Please reserve your personal bias until the evidence is presented to you. Otherwise, the legitimacy of your membership in the Jury will be questioned.No problem, not bias, just not evidence that is meaningful to a 20th century jury. Waiting . . .