Atheists and agnostics are not the enemy

[C Thomas]

While Christians spend a lot of energy on defending Christianity against those who oppose it from without, it is more likely that any serious attack against Christianity would be in the form of a decay of sound teaching from within Christianity.

This should make us all the more open to testing our own views against Scripture, and questioning everything we've been told.

For starters:

Eph 4:14 "... that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view toward the systematizing of the deception."

Systematized deception - That sounds more like false "Christian" doctrine than atheism.

Many will say "Lord, Lord..." right? Who else could they be but "Christians"?

[John Goddard]

I'm an equal-opportunity kind of guy, I go after everyone.

[Bernie]

While Christians spend a lot of energy on defending Christianity against those who oppose it from without, it is more likely that any serious attack against Christianity would be in the form of a decay of sound teaching from within Christianity.

This should make us all the more open to testing our own views against Scripture, and questioning everything we've been told.

For starters:

Eph 4:14 "... that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view toward the systematizing of the deception."

Systematized deception - That sounds more like false "Christian" doctrine than atheism.

Many will say "Lord, Lord..." right? Who else could they be but "Christians"?
Very well said, you got pearls for this post. Almost all debate on "theology" boards consists of using DOCTRINE as truth itself. This the Pharisees did, too.

One comment....I'd modify one of your statements thus: we should be open to testing our views/interpretations of Scripture against tests of truth.

[C Thomas]

Very well said, you got pearls for this post. Almost all debate on "theology" boards consists of using DOCTRINE as truth itself. This the Pharisees did, too.

One comment....I'd modify one of your statements thus: we should be open to testing our views/interpretations of Scripture against tests of truth.

Thank you. I'd accept your modification, though I really liked the way you said this the other day too:

"God seems to me to have designed His word in such a way that its mysteries--many of which have been properly searched out by orthodox scholarship, btw--require serious study beyond the immediately apparent meaning of any given passage or set of passages before they find unity with the whole word of God and each other."

[Adrift]

C Thomas, I loved you in The Outsiders and Red Dawn.

[RBerman]

While Christians spend a lot of energy on defending Christianity against those who oppose it from without, it is more likely that any serious attack against Christianity would be in the form of a decay of sound teaching from within Christianity. This should make us all the more open to testing our own views against Scripture, and questioning everything we've been told.

For starters:

Eph 4:14 "... that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view toward the systematizing of the deception."

Systematized deception - That sounds more like false "Christian" doctrine than atheism. Many will say "Lord, Lord..." right? Who else could they be but "Christians"?

Well, the Bible says a lot about attacks from within and attacks from without, so let's not set up a false dichotomy. I hope you'll welcome my desire to test your universalist views against Scripture; as you know, I find them lacking, and so has the church for millenia.

[C Thomas]

Well, the Bible says a lot about attacks from within and attacks from without, so let's not set up a false dichotomy. I hope you'll welcome my desire to test your universalist views against Scripture; as you know, I find them lacking, and so has the church for millenia.

Paul wrote some striking things concerning future events in the church:

"Herald the word. Stand by it, opportunely, inopportunely, expose, rebuke, entreat, with all patience and teaching.
For the era will be when they will not tolerate sound teaching, but, their hearing being tickled, they will heap up for themselves teachers in accord with their own desires..." (2Tim.4:2-3)

Is it a red flag when the church, by and large, opposes something? Not necessarily. I believe the "teachers" Paul referred to are most likely in the "church".

I do welcome your desire to test my views.

[RBerman]

Is it a red flag when the church, by and large, opposes something? Not necessarily. I believe the "teachers" Paul referred to are most likely in the "church".
I agree. "Everyone believes it" is no proof of truth. However, it is often helpful in answering the question, "Do I understand this aright?" If I read a text and see something different in it than everyone else does, it's appropriate to question whether my understanding is correct. I might still be correct, but I'd want to see pretty convincing evidence of that, because "I was mistaken" is a more likely explanation.

I do welcome your desire to test my views.
And I have.

[UrbanMonk]

Many will say "Lord, Lord..." right? Who else could they be but "Christians"?

Good point. Christians are about the only one's repeating the name of the Lord...in vain. Guilt is the "enemy", and any teacher/teaching which makes guilt to be the truth instead of the truth...is among the "Lord, Lord..." crowd.

Regards,
Urban mOnk

[nate895]

I'm an equal-opportunity kind of guy, I go after everyone.

So am I. Plus, most of the problems within Christianity doctrinally or in our actions are from the influence the thinking of man not tethered to the solid foundation of the Bible, and that is the ultimate problem with atheism. If atheists tethered their thinking to the Bible and found out that doing so was eminently more reasonable than making up stories about Earth's past, they would quickly repent. The same problem for people inside of the Church.

[UrbanMonk]

If atheists tethered their thinking to the Bible and found out that doing so was eminently more reasonable than making up stories about Earth's past, they would quickly repent. The same problem for people inside of the Church.

Tether your thinking to the bible and you will bind yourself to the earth. The "heaven and earth" paradigm presented in the first sentence of the bible is a made up story...the "fruit" of combining oppostites together into one "world". "Earth" will "pass away", and when it does, that will be the end of the wicked "heaven and earth" paradigm. And when it passes away, it won't be back.

Regards,
Urban Monk