The day I met my Wife.

[FredFlanders]

When I met my wife 25 years ago she was 15 and I was 27. This shocked my church.... Want to hear more????

[rogue06]

Somehow I get the distinct impression that you're going to tell us regardless of what answer you receive

[FredFlanders]

Somehow I get the distinct impression that you're going to tell us regardless of what answer you receive
Ok R, you talked me into it. We were madly in Love so after 8 months we got engaged but no one would marry us.

[Frogwarrior]

Ok R, you talked me into it. We were madly in Love so after 8 months we got engaged but no one would marry us.

Huh. Well, if she wasn't old enough at the time that's understandable, since in many states the marrying age is 18. But even if you were somewhere else, it's still... decidedly countercultural, let's say. :frog:

[FredFlanders]

Huh. Well, if she wasn't old enough at the time that's understandable, since in many states the marrying age is 18. But even if you were somewhere else, it's still... decidedly countercultural, let's say. :frog:Yes F, we have the same laws. We were engaged when my wife to be was 16 with the blessing of her parents. Then the enemy came through the religious who did not know the Word of God. Because of the age difference and my girlfriend being very young they tried to use this law against us and perswaded the parents not to allow the marriage and split us up. So I went into prayer and fasting to our Lord. I needed an answer from the Lord as I beleived it was the will of God that we be married..

[Philosophickle]

For the record. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Flanders)
I think it's a joke.

[FredFlanders]

For the record. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Flanders)
I think it's a joke.It is no joke. You sound like the religious sceptics that thought it was mission impossible. But not when you search out the Word of God on the matter. We did get married just after my soon to be wife turned 17 and have been married now for 22 years. But once I knew the Word of God I won the battle.

[Michelle]

It is no joke. You sound like the religious sceptics that thought it was mission impossible. But not when you search out the Word of God on the matter. We did get married just after my soon to be wife turned 17 and have been married now for 22 years. But once I knew the Word of God I won the battle.

You read the Bible and discovered that the girl you wanted to marry, a minor, should not obey and honor her God-fearing parents? Are you sure you picked up the right book?

Whatever

Congratulations on your long and happy marriage.

[Alucard]

XD

This thread rules.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

This shocked my church.... Want to hear more????

I don't, but someone does...


66827

[Pilgrim]

LOLO.L...

POTD to you!

[Spartacus]

Uhh... Fred? What exactly was the point of ths thread?

[Philosophickle]

Uhh... Fred? What exactly was the point of ths thread?

I wanted to marry a teenage gurl and the church wouldn't let me...
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW.

[Pilgrim]

I've actually seen it happen a bunch of times where men from more fundamentalist churches have a thing for a teenage girl and try to make it ok by throwing church language at it. It's kind of scary.

On the other hand, I've seen marriages that have really worked despite extreme age differences. In those cases, however, the men I knew waited until the girl was of legal age before pursuing any relationship at all and then only with the permission of the parents. I knew of one youth pastor who wanted such a relationship. After serious prayer and seeking guidance he quit his job at the church in question and then waited until it was appropriate. That seemed, though awkward, at least respectful.

[FredFlanders]

You read the Bible and discovered that the girl you wanted to marry, a minor, should not obey and honor her God-fearing parents? Are you sure you picked up the right book?
Whatever
Congratulations on your long and happy marriage.So Michelle, what is a minor? When Joseph married Mary historical records show that Joseph was around 30 and Mary around 14. I would say I was in good company. King Josiah was married and had two children by the time he was 13. The Jewish allow their children to marry after the age of 13 if they cannot contain themselves regardless of State laws then, at the apropriate age registar the marriage with the State.

[FredFlanders]

Uhh... Fred? What exactly was the point of ths thread?
Keep your pants on S, you might get some wisdom out ot the scriptures from this. I can only feed most of you slowly as many of you are fed on religious garbage and cannot see very well.

[FredFlanders]

I wanted to marry a teenage gurl and the church wouldn't let me...
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW. My God did not let me down but many in the church did. Don't beleive everthing you are told by people in the church without checking the scriptures. I had some in the church that supported the relationship and some that didnot. The didnot's managed to seperate me from my girlfriend where I was not allowed to see her for a number of weeks. So after much prayer in the Spirit (Tongues) God told me to hit them with a NT scripture of which I did. We were married within 30 days.

[Country Preacher]

For the record. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Flanders)
I think it's a joke.

This is absolutely INCREDIBLE!!!!! I was going to write a post about an obnoxious religious person who seems to know EVERYTHING, and I was going to call this person Ned Flounders.

Is that a HOOT, or WHAT?!?!?!!

[Country Preacher]

My God did not let me down but many in the church did. Don't beleive everthing you are told by people in the church without checking the scriptures. I had some in the church that supported the relationship and some that didnot. The didnot's managed to seperate me from my girlfriend where I was not allowed to see her for a number of weeks. So after much prayer in the Spirit (Tongues) God told me to hit them with a NT scripture of which I did. We were married within 30 days.

This actually explains a LOT of things! :smile:

[FredFlanders]

This is absolutely INCREDIBLE!!!!! I was going to write a post about an obnoxious religious person who seems to know EVERYTHING, and I was going to call this person Ned Flounders.

Is that a HOOT, or WHAT?!?!?!!
Let me know when it is posted CP. The only thing you are good at are your jokes.

[Country Preacher]

Let me know when it is posted CP. The only thing you are good at are your jokes.

Well, the only thing YOU are good at, Ned, is ... um.... lemme get back to you on that :wink:

[FredFlanders]

This actually explains a LOT of things! :smile:
Good, I am glad you know it all now CP.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

So Michelle, what is a minor? When Joseph married Mary historical records show that Joseph was around 30 and Mary around 14. I would say I was in good company. King Josiah was married and had two children by the time he was 13. The Jewish allow their children to marry after the age of 13 if they cannot contain themselves regardless of State laws then, at the apropriate age registar the marriage with the State.

RANDOM FACT:

Q: Do you know what Mary, Joseph, and Josiah had in common?
A: THEY WEREN'T 21st CENTURY AMERICANS!

Why do you think they married so young? Because the very survival of their race depended on it. Life expectancy for an ANE culture was ~40 years of age. Our culture, on the other hand, is so stable and easy-going that we don't constantly have to be replenished with offspring. In fact, we could probably benefit from less.

So after much prayer in the Spirit (Tongues) God told me to hit them with a NT scripture of which I did.

:ahem:

After praying covered in honey and whacking myself with old leather belts, the voice of God told me to marry a cow. I had no proof like a 1st Century prophet did (miracles) that God spoke to me, but I deluged my opponents with Bible-speak until they shut up.

Here's a tip: don't use the name of the Lord God in vain by pretending to speak for him. God is not amused. We already have one blasphemer on TWeb (TyRockwell), we don't need another.

[Country Preacher]

Good, I am glad you know it all now CP.

Oh, not at all, Fred.. I didn't say this explains EVERYTHING... just a LOT! :smile: It give me a lot better understanding into your mindset.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Oh, not at all, Fred.. I didn't say this explains EVERYTHING... just a LOT! :smile: It give me a lot better understanding into your mindset.

Is Fred what you would call a "theolectual"?

[Michelle]

So Michelle, what is a minor? When Joseph married Mary historical records show that Joseph was around 30 and Mary around 14. I would say I was in good company. King Josiah was married and had two children by the time he was 13. The Jewish allow their children to marry after the age of 13 if they cannot contain themselves regardless of State laws then, at the apropriate age registar the marriage with the State.

That's your defense?

Did you and your wife have any daughters?

[Country Preacher]

Is Fred what you would call a "theolectual"?

I would have to say "yes"... you can't tell Fred ANYTHING, and he knows EVERYTHING... but he IS amusing! :wink:

[Philosophickle]

That's your defense?

Did you and your wife have any daughters?

Yah, I have a little baby gurl now and there is no way in hell I'd let her marry a creepy 27 year old at the age of 15. It'd be a shotgun wedding and a shotgun funeral.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

I would have to say "yes"... you can't tell Fred ANYTHING, and he knows EVERYTHING...

I can believe that :hehe:

but he IS amusing! :wink:

In this case, it's not amusing. It's disgusting. Not only did he rob the last remaining years of childhood of a minor, he justifies it by saying God TOLD him to.

If he so wants to point to ANE culture to point out marriages of minors, he should also know people like him were stoned for defaming the name of God.

[FredFlanders]

RANDOM FACT:

Q: Do you know what Mary, Joseph, and Josiah had in common?
A: THEY WEREN'T 21st CENTURY AMERICANS!

Why do you think they married so young? Because the very survival of their race depended on it. Life expectancy for an ANE culture was ~40 years of age. Our culture, on the other hand, is so stable and easy-going that we don't constantly have to be replenished with offspring. In fact, we could probably benefit from less.



:ahem:

After praying covered in honey and whacking myself with old leather belts, the voice of God told me to marry a cow. I had no proof like a 1st Century prophet did (miracles) that God spoke to me, but I deluged my opponents with Bible-speak until they shut up.

Here's a tip: don't use the name of the Lord God in vain by pretending to speak for him. God is not amused. We already have one blasphemer on TWeb (TyRockwell), we don't need another.Well E, is not the Word of God the same yesterday, today and forever? You have got stuck up in religion like most religious dorks do. Even the Jews have a better idea on marriage than you do. Many christian religions throw the young adults out of their congregations for what they call "fornication" without even knowing the scriptures or doing any thing to groom them into marriage.

And you have your facts wrong on life expectancy. From Adam and Eve life expectancy has slowly diminished for believers from living for centuries to what it is today as we live in this Godless cured environment.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Well E, is not the Word of God the same yesterday, today and forever?

Yup. So what's the point?

Many christian religions throw the young adults out of their congregations for what they call "fornication" without even knowing the scriptures or doing any thing to groom them into marriage.

Non sequitur.


And you have your facts wrong on life expectancy. From Adam and Eve life expectancy has slowly diminished for believers from living for centuries to what it is today as we live in this Godless cured environment.

RANDOM FACT:

Q. What did Adam and Eve have in common?
A: They weren't part of a 1st Century ANE culture!

[Michelle]

Yah, I have a little baby gurl now and there is no way in hell I'd let her marry a creepy 27 year old at the age of 15. It'd be a shotgun wedding and a shotgun funeral.

No kidding.

[mossrose]

My husband is 9 years older than I. We met when I was 16 and he was 25.

We were married when I was 18. We have 2 children, the oldest 33, and have been married for coming up 37 years.

I am not saying one way or another whether the church in Fred's situation was in error. There were no issues such as this in my circumstances.

I am just giving you all my own experience.

[Michelle]

My husband is 9 years older than I. We met when I was 16 and he was 25.

We were married when I was 18. We have 2 children, the oldest 33, and have been married for coming up 37 years.

I am not saying one way or another whether the church in Fred's situation was in error. There were no issues such as this in my circumstances.

I am just giving you all my own experience.
Did your parents object to your relationship, mossrose?

[mossrose]

Did your parents object to your relationship, mossrose?
They objected only in the sense that they certainly wanted us to wait until I was older before we were married, not that we were thinking of getting married any earlier.

And they wanted to make sure Mr. mossy was the guy for me, and that I was mature enough to know my heart and what God wanted for me.

My parents had 5 daughters, I am the youngest. I think they were tired of reining girls in by the time I was a teenager.

:whistle:

And of course, when I was 18, I was of age, and could do as I wished. Mr. mossy and I had been dating for 2 years by then, and we were both pretty sure we were right for each other.

My parents came to love Mr. mossy as their own son, even taking his side against me at times.

:brood:

So, my situation all worked out well in the end. Even though Mom DID like Mr. mossy best.

:bawl:

[FredFlanders]

That's your defense?

Did you and your wife have any daughters?

Glad you asked Michelle. We have a 15 year old daughter and an 18 year old daughter who got engaged just before her 17th birthday to a 17 year old. My daughter brought this 17 year old home one day. His hair was colored with black and white stripes, had stud’s in his face, been thrown out of school at the age of 12, suffered depression and never held a job for more than a week. I said nothing but prayed about the situation. He was also one of five kids from 3 different fathers. His Mum and her latest boy friend are alcoholics. I said nothing but prayed about the situation. With in a few weeks I could see that their relationship was growing a becoming very intimate. So I sat them down and said to them if you are going to be intimate with each other then we expect you to get engaged and then marry at the appropriate time and that the marriage is for the rest of your lives. But first you must both have jobs and be planning for your future. At this time the boy friend had bright red hair. So I offered to pay a hair cut (as his hair went in all directions) and to have his hair put back to its natural color. He accepted my offer, took the stud’s out of his face and got a job 2 weeks latter of which he is still at after 20 months. He is a great kid, no longer suffers from depression and is now boarding with us in a separate room to my daughter.

Does that answer your question Michelle?

[Michelle]

They objected only in the sense that they certainly wanted us to wait until I was older before we were married, not that we were thinking of getting married any earlier.

And they wanted to make sure Mr. mossy was the guy for me, and that I was mature enough to know my heart and what God wanted for me.

My parents had 5 daughters, I am the youngest. I think they were tired of reining girls in by the time I was a teenager.

:whistle:

And of course, when I was 18, I was of age, and could do as I wished. Mr. mossy and I had been dating for 2 years by then, and we were both pretty sure we were right for each other.

My parents came to love Mr. mossy as their own son, even taking his side against me at times.

:brood:

So, my situation all worked out well in the end. Even though Mom DID like Mr. mossy best.

:bawl:

It sounds to me like you didn't really dishonor your parents in any way, and that Mr. Mossy proved to be a man of integrity.

[Michelle]

Glad you asked Michelle. We have a 15 year old daughter and an 18 year old daughter who got engaged just before her 17th birthday to a 17 year old. My daughter brought this 17 year old home one day. His hair was colored with black and white stripes, had stud’s in his face, been thrown out of school at the age of 12, suffered depression and never held a job for more than a week. I said nothing but prayed about the situation. He was also one of five kids from 3 different fathers. His Mum and her latest boy friend are alcoholics. I said nothing but prayed about the situation. With in a few weeks I could see that their relationship was growing a becoming very intimate. So I sat them down and said to them if you are going to be intimate with each other then we expect you to get engaged and then marry at the appropriate time and that the marriage is for the rest of your lives. But first you must both have jobs and be planning for your future. At this time the boy friend had bright red hair. So I offered to pay a hair cut (as his hair went in all directions) and to have his hair put back to its natural color. He accepted my offer, took the stud’s out of his face and got a job 2 weeks latter of which he is still at after 20 months. He is a great kid, no longer suffers from depression and is now boarding with us in a separate room to my daughter.

Does that answer your question Michelle?
Yep.

Good job with the boyfriend.

[rogue06]

And you have your facts wrong on life expectancy. From Adam and Eve life expectancy has slowly diminished for believers from living for centuries to what it is today as we live in this Godless cured environment.
What do you think the life expectancy was 2000 years ago?

[mossrose]

It sounds to me like you didn't really dishonor your parents in any way, and that Mr. Mossy proved to be a man of integrity.

Yes. We were very concerned about my parents, and wanted their approval. So we conducted ourselves honourably.

The church really didn't know what was going on with us, except we were dating, and I am not sure anybody outside my family knew how old Mr. mossy was. So there was no interference from our church.

I was a very mature 16-year old. As in emotionally and intellectually, AND spiritually. I would certainly never use my own circumstance to advocate that it is okay for all 15-year olds to get involved with 27 year old men.

[FredFlanders]

Yah, I have a little baby gurl now and there is no way in hell I'd let her marry a creepy 27 year old at the age of 15. It'd be a shotgun wedding and a shotgun funeral.

Stick this in your pipe P, as this is what is happening in the church today;,

The Apostle Paul prophesied about young adults and marriage on this problem to those in the “Faith” that departed from His Word.

It is our responsibility that Christians have an easy path to marriage but that is not always the case.

Paul warned us of this in the latter days in Timothy 4 v 1-5 of this problem. Paul was not talking about a change in food laws but rather young adults and marriage. We read; Now the Spirit speak expressly, (take note of these words) that in the latter times (the last days) some shall depart from the faith (their trust in God) paying heed (paying attention) to seducing spirits (some of the things a seducing spirit would say- “your too young to get married”, “marriage will spoil your life”, “if you marry your partner it will end in divorce”, “you have nothing in common with your partner”, “kids will ruin your life”, “you need to have an education before you get married”, “enjoy life before you get married”, “you will never have any money” etc) and doctrine of devils (miss leading teaching) Speaking lies (falsely/not from Gods word) in hypocrisy (acting/guilty of the same conduct, allowing marriage for themselves but not for others) having their conscience seared with a hot iron. (Not able to distinguish what is lawful and unlawful for a Christian) Forbidding (denying/refusing/hindering) to marry, and commanding (coming from a higher office) to abstain (kept from) from meats (Gods instructions/promises) which God has created to be received (Gods blessings to us) with thanksgiving (our praise to God) of them which believe (rely) and know (recognise/know accurately) the truth (nature of God). For every creature (new born soul) of God is good. (beautiful, handsome, excellent, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admiral, shapely and magnificent) and nothing to be refused (neglected, despised) if it be sanctified (made holy, purified, guided by) by the word of God and prayer. (Communion/relationship/friendship with God).

[Raphael]

There was a 14 year gap between my Grandfather and my Grandmother. They were married when she was 22 though (and he was 36). For both of them this was their only marriage.

I don't know any more details about family approval and when they met though, and as they are both deceased I can't find out (on that note it's my grandfather's 110th birthday on Saturday, 1st August).

My youngest (but still older) brother's wife is 8 years younger than him, they were married when she was 19, with full approval from both families (indeed it was her father that introduced the two of them after he shared a tent with my brother on a missionary trip to Zimbabwe).

[rogue06]

I don't think the issue is the difference in age as much as FF's using Scripture to justify everything.

[Philosophickle]

I don't think the issue is the difference in age as much as FF's using Scripture to justify everything.

Not just that, but the fact that everyone around seemed to disapprove. That's what is so worrying about his case.

ETA: Not her parents, I guess, but her church.

[eudyptes]

I don't think the issue is the difference in age as much as FF's MISusing Scripture to justify everything.

Fixed it for you.

And it seems the FF parody continues......

[RumTumTugger]

I don't think the issue is the difference in age as much as FF's using Scripture to justify everything.

and doing a bit of eisogesis on it to boot.

[Country Preacher]

and doing a bit of eisogesis on it to boot.

Yeah, THAT! :smile:

[Country Preacher]

Not just that, but the fact that everyone around seemed to disapprove. That's what is so worrying about his case.

ETA: Not her parents, I guess, but her church.

I think that's why Ned is so anti-Church! :smile:

[Pilgrim]

Are we talking about Fred's first marriage here?

[Michelle]

ETA: Not her parents, I guess, but her church.

Nah, her parents, too. They were "perswaded" by those with religious delusions from the enemy to pay attention to the laws about age of consent to oppose their relationship.

[Country Preacher]

Nah, her parents, too. They were "perswaded" by those with religious delusions from the enemy to pay attention to the laws about age of consent to oppose their relationship.

Does that mean they were "conned"? :smile:

[Shadow Phoenix]

We need to have Ty come here and give the final word. Apparently, he's got a hotline to God also.

[Pilgrim]

You know it's kind of interesting that Jim Jones used much the same reasoning to get with the young girls too. Makes you think.

[Country Preacher]

You know it's kind of interesting that Jim Jones used much the same reasoning to get with the young girls too. Makes you think.

Well, I wasn't gonna SAY it... but, since you mentioned it ... It's one thing to claim Biblical excuses for some of his silly notions, but... yeah... it's kinda sick that he would try to justify what would otherwise, in many states, be statutory rape. And I'm NOT kidding about that.

[FredFlanders]

I don't think the issue is the difference in age as much as FF's using Scripture to justify everything.

Yes that’s using my Sword of the Spirit. It’s a pity your sword has turned into clay.

[FredFlanders]

Not just that, but the fact that everyone around seemed to disapprove. That's what is so worrying about his case.

ETA: Not her parents, I guess, but her church.

So P, your one of these easily led people who wants other people's admiration and gives in to peer pressure rather than the Word of God.

[FredFlanders]

Fixed it for you.

And it seems the FF parody continues......

That's it E follow the leader into La La land.

[FredFlanders]

Are we talking about Fred's first marriage here?

It is my first and only marriage. It's all about loving the Lord first, of which you do not understand.

[FredFlanders]

Nah, her parents, too. They were "perswaded" by those with religious delusions from the enemy to pay attention to the laws about age of consent to oppose their relationship.

Whose laws Michelle, Man's or God's?

[FredFlanders]

Does that mean they were "conned"? :smile:

CP, your still on your religious delusion not knowing the Power of God.

[FredFlanders]

Well, I wasn't gonna SAY it... but, since you mentioned it ... It's one thing to claim Biblical excuses for some of his silly notions, but... yeah... it's kinda sick that he would try to justify what would otherwise, in many states, be statutory rape. And I'm NOT kidding about that.

CP, your another one that follows Man rather than God. When two people fall in Love, what is God's direction in the matter.

[Country Preacher]

CP, your another one that follows Man rather than God. When two people fall in Love, what is God's direction in the matter.

"falling in love" is not necessarily God, Fred, and you should know that. There's lust, there's physical attraction, there are all kinds of forces at work. Unsaved people "fall in love" too, Fred. But, no doubt, you're an authority on true love. It really does give me greater understanding, however, of how your mind works, that you could justify your own fleshly desires by quoting Scripture.

You're a piece of work, for sure.

[Obsidian]

I'm with Fred about the morality of this situation -- although I think it was stupid to assume that God wanted him to marry a specific woman. God doesn't care who we marry, as long as we choose wisely and marry a Christian.

But yeah, I think society's rules about marriage are so screwed up and it's idiotic to condemn Fred for breaking them. Society says not to get married until the girl is about 23 or older -- oh yeah, and try to find someone your own age, or better yet a woman who is older than you! --...but more than half of these marriages dissolve anyway. (Tip to men: Did you know that among divorces between college-educated spouses, 90% of them are initiated by the woman?) A lot of it is just the older women voters trying to cut out the competition, and older male voters trying to heap extra rules on society to help themselves resist the temptation of the young ladies.

Generally, I do think 15 is too young, just because American girls in general tend to be immature even when they're 20 or so. But if you can find the exception to the general rule, go for it.

[Obsidian]

And the stuff about "dishonoring your parents" is clearly a stretch. You don't owe your parents obedience when you're no longer a child. Some people say that you're still a child until you turn 18 (an American legal concept, not a biblical rule) or even until you move out of the house. But heck, if you're getting married, you are choosing to move out of the house anyway. You are leaving mother and father to cling to someone else.

[Raphael]

And the stuff about "dishonoring your parents" is clearly a stretch. You don't owe your parents obedience when you're no longer a child. Some people say that you're still a child until you turn 18 (an American legal concept, not a biblical rule) or even until you move out of the house. But heck, if you're getting married, you are choosing to move out of the house anyway. You are leaving mother and father to cling to someone else.
I can't help but think of this quote from Ravi Zacharias in I, Isaak, Take You Rebekah

Chances are if you marry somebody, in violation with your parent's will, I suggest you are playing a dangerous game with God.
That's as carefully as I probably could state it.
Just like at any time when you violate an authority that has been placed by God, you need to be twice as sure that you are doing the right thing. I just say this very plainly to you young people, be immensely careful when you make the pledge of your life to somebody, if your parents are not in sympathy with it, particularly so if your parents are men and women who love God.

[eudyptes]

That's it E follow the leader into La La land.

..sigh....and I was going to just ignore you.....I guess shame on me...as I know how this will be responded too......

I know of Whom I follow...the God of His Word...and I can live by what the Scripture say, taking the full Scripture...without redefining words, twisting meaning, ignoring portions, or prooftexting in order to live....do I fall, make mistakes, screw up...yep....daily....and am willing to admit when wrong....with His help I get up dust off and keep on following.......



...you by your own words prove you do not follow the God of the Bible...as you twist, ignore, redefine and add to the Scripture...claiming "the Spirit" is guiding....from what you've espoused here (TWeb...not just this thread)...the spirit you follow....doesn't seem Godly in the least.



Here as a service to you F......is your reply to cut, paste and post:
I've got the Spirit you don't. I know more than you.

[Pilgrim]

"falling in love" is not necessarily God, Fred, and you should know that. There's lust, there's physical attraction, there are all kinds of forces at work. Unsaved people "fall in love" too, Fred. But, no doubt, you're an authority on true love. It really does give me greater understanding, however, of how your mind works, that you could justify your own fleshly desires by quoting Scripture.

You're a piece of work, for sure.

piece of something anyway... :whistle:

[Obsidian]

Raphael, Ravi is wrong to suggest that parents are permanently in "authority" over their offspring. But maybe that's just his Indian-ness shining through.

[rogue06]

piece of something anyway... :whistle:
:shocked:













:thumb:

[FredFlanders]

"falling in love" is not necessarily God, Fred, and you should know that. There's lust, there's physical attraction, there are all kinds of forces at work. Unsaved people "fall in love" too, Fred. But, no doubt, you're an authority on true love. It really does give me greater understanding, however, of how your mind works, that you could justify your own fleshly desires by quoting Scripture.

You're a piece of work, for sure.

CP I was so sorry to hear about your tragic accident when the knife slipped when you were circumcised and you can no longer think like a real man. It must frustrate you when you read scriptures such as below that normal men understand.


1 Cor 7 v 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

Gee Fred, for someone who says they have the Holy Spirit and we are all worshiping the anti-christ, you sure have a vulgar tongue on you.

Matthew 15:10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

Col 3:8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

James 9:9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

[CP I was so sorry to hear about your tragic accident when the knife slipped when you were circumcised and you can no longer think like a real man. It must frustrate you when you read scriptures such as below that normal men understand.

You filthy cretin...

[rogue06]

CP I was so sorry to hear about your tragic accident when the knife slipped when you were circumcised and you can no longer think like a real man. It must frustrate you when you read scriptures such as below that normal men understand.
Ahhh. This must be an example of how you persuade people through a gift of the Spirit.

[FredFlanders]

I'm with Fred about the morality of this situation -- although I think it was stupid to assume that God wanted him to marry a specific woman. God doesn't care who we marry, as long as we choose wisely and marry a Christian.

But yeah, I think society's rules about marriage are so screwed up and it's idiotic to condemn Fred for breaking them. Society says not to get married until the girl is about 23 or older -- oh yeah, and try to find someone your own age, or better yet a woman who is older than you! --...but more than half of these marriages dissolve anyway. (Tip to men: Did you know that among divorces between college-educated spouses, 90% of them are initiated by the woman?) A lot of it is just the older women voters trying to cut out the competition, and older male voters trying to heap extra rules on society to help themselves resist the temptation of the young ladies.

Generally, I do think 15 is too young, just because American girls in general tend to be immature even when they're 20 or so. But if you can find the exception to the general rule, go for it.


O, I agree with everything you said but I just want to point out that when I found my right partner I just knew that She was the right wife for me. It was only by the grace of God, the married was accomplished and we are still happily married today.

[FredFlanders]

And the stuff about "dishonoring your parents" is clearly a stretch. You don't owe your parents obedience when you're no longer a child. Some people say that you're still a child until you turn 18 (an American legal concept, not a biblical rule) or even until you move out of the house. But heck, if you're getting married, you are choosing to move out of the house anyway. You are leaving mother and father to cling to someone else.

The church, government and many parents are so of track when it comes to marriage unnecessarily condemning the young adults today rather than grooming them for marriage. Age never concerned God whether it was 16, 26 or 66.

The Jewish culture has a better understanding about fulfilling a marriage than do many Christians allowing their children to marry if necessary once they have completed their Bar Mitzvah or Bit Mitzvah regardless of Government laws. (however when they are of legal age the couple register their marriage with the Government)

Biblically couples were betrothed (engaged) by either by arrangement of their parents or if a couple had a sexual encounter with each other. The marriage took place at the time schedule of the Father of the Bride. The Groom and his Father during the engagement would go and prepare a home for the Bride. When this was done and the Father of the Bride was happy with the new home and the dowry paid then consent would be given for the marriage. This is same parallel of Christ returning for the Church and our Father in heaven will determine the time. If the father was not satisfied with the new arrangement for his daughter or the dowry not paid consent would not be given until such time all was put in order. The Father would have legal a legal right to deny the marriage if the groom was an adulterer, unbeliever or had other sexual misdemeanors
.
The Word of God never used the Word “fornication” against anyone unless one of the engaged couple was not faithful and had a sexual encounter with another party.

Exodus 22v 16 If any man entice a maid that is not betrothed and lie with her he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

Deut22 v 28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with her and they be found. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsels father fifty shekels of silver and he shall be his wife because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Some laws of God were just common sense transactions which was not counted as evil, fornication or had a penalty as we read in Ex 22v 16 and Deut 22v 28-29. Some however were evil, was fornication and had a penalty such as Deut 22v 23-24.

Here is an act of fornication which was called evil and had the penalty of death.
Deut22 v 23-24. If a damsel that is a virgin and be betrothed (engaged) to an husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them out unto the gate of the city and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel because she cried not being in the city and the man because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife, so thou shalt put away this evil from you.

[FredFlanders]

Ahhh. This must be an example of how you persuade people through a gift of the Spirit.

Do you think the Spirit of Christ is some soft little wimp that gets pushed around by people with there head up their b...???

[FredFlanders]

You filthy cretin...

Eru I thought you disappeared back to your phony Religion.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Eru I thought you disappeared back to your phony Religion.

God told me (tongues) to stick around.

[FredFlanders]

God told me (tongues) to stick around.
OK Eru, if what you just said is true (as I do not know you yet) The Spirit will reveil the Truth eventually.

[FredFlanders]

..sigh....and I was going to just ignore you.....I guess shame on me...as I know how this will be responded too......

I know of Whom I follow...the God of His Word...and I can live by what the Scripture say, taking the full Scripture...without redefining words, twisting meaning, ignoring portions, or prooftexting in order to live....do I fall, make mistakes, screw up...yep....daily....and am willing to admit when wrong....with His help I get up dust off and keep on following.......



...you by your own words prove you do not follow the God of the Bible...as you twist, ignore, redefine and add to the Scripture...claiming "the Spirit" is guiding....from what you've espoused here (TWeb...not just this thread)...the spirit you follow....doesn't seem Godly in the least.



Here as a service to you F......is your reply to cut, paste and post:
I've got the Spirit you don't. I know more than you.That's nice E, stick around and quote scripture and I will give you scripture back. That way we can sharpen both our Swords.

[Country Preacher]

CP I was so sorry to hear about your tragic accident when the knife slipped when you were circumcised and you can no longer think like a real man. It must frustrate you when you read scriptures such as below that normal men understand.

I forgive you, Fred.

[Teluog]

We need to have Ty come here and give the final word. Apparently, he's got a hotline to God also.

Ty vs. Fred? Two inerrant, divinely-anointed Bible scholars/prophets gripping each others' throats in the name of inerrancy, divine-anointment, exegesis, and God's voice?




:popcorn:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eudyptes]

Ty vs. Fred? Two inerrant, divinely-anointed Bible scholars/prophets gripping each others' throats in the name of inerrancy, divine-anointment, exegesis, and God's voice?


FF wouldn't argue for inerrancy, he has to allow for his ability to twist, redefine, ignore context, and add to the Scripture to make it fit his view....instead of taking the Scriptures as they were written and follow them.

And...I'm still leaning toward his being a parody....

[Pilgrim]

I forgive you, Fred.

And thus the true spirit of Christ is revealed.

[Teluog]

FF wouldn't argue for inerrancy, he has to allow for his ability to twist, redefine, ignore context, and add to the Scripture to make it fit his view....instead of taking the Scriptures as they were written and follow them.

And...I'm still leaning toward his being a parody....

By "inerrant", I was referring to his (mis) interpretating abilities, as a matter of fact.

[eudyptes]

And thus the true spirit of Christ is revealed.

..well said

[eudyptes]

By "inerrant", I was referring to his (mis) interpretating abilities, as a matter of fact.

ahh...oops...I misunderstood....

[Xmansmommy]

He said he had the blessing of the parents until they were persuaded to reconsider by religious folk. I am quite surprised at all the slack he is getting here even by people I highly respect. I understand the questioning of his motives but none of you have met him or his wife. I think the longevity of his marriage should speak for something. But whatever.

I personally don't know how I feel about this kind of situation as I have a 17 year old daughter who is dating a 23 year old guy. I do not approve of their relationship, nor have I since I found out about it. I have had to unwillingly acquiesce and since then God has told me to step back and let them sort it all out. So I've done just that, left it in His hands and trust.

I finally met him recently. He seems nice enough. Haven't had the opportunity to really have a heart to heart about his intentions, his goals in life, etc. but I hope to soon.

One of my biggest issues with my daughter's and these kinds of relationships is that I don't believe that they are on the same maturity level during these years. As for my daughter's boyfriend, I have noticed that he is a good influence on her in regards to maturity and tries to instill in her a sense of respect for me that was lacking. This even, when he knew I was extremely angry and not so kind toward him in my words.

I hope none of you have to experience this kind of thing in your own lives, with your own daughters or loved ones. Because if this thread is any indication of how things will go, you'll need God to help you through this far more than you can now know.

[rogue06]

He said he had the blessing of the parents until they were persuaded to reconsider by religious folk. I am quite surprised at all the slack he is getting here even by people I highly respect. I understand the questioning of his motives but none of you have met him or his wife. I think the longevity of his marriage should speak for something. But whatever.

I personally don't know how I feel about this kind of situation as I have a 17 year old daughter who is dating a 23 year old guy. I do not approve of their relationship, nor have I since I found out about it. I have had to unwillingly acquiesce and since then God has told me to step back and let them sort it all out. So I've done just that, left it in His hands and trust.

I finally met him recently. He seems nice enough. Haven't had the opportunity to really have a heart to heart about his intentions, his goals in life, etc. but I hope to soon.

One of my biggest issues with my daughter's and these kinds of relationships is that I don't believe that they are on the same maturity level during these years. As for my daughter's boyfriend, I have noticed that he is a good influence on her in regards to maturity and tries to instill in her a sense of respect for me that was lacking. This even, when he knew I was extremely angry and not so kind toward him in my words.

I hope none of you have to experience this kind of thing in your own lives, with your own daughters or loved ones. Because if this thread is any indication of how things will go, you'll need God to help you through this far more than you can now know.

Again, I don't think that the majority are as concerned with the age difference but Fred's gross misuse of Scripture in order to justify his actions. For me, it's that simple.

[Xmansmommy]

Again, I don't think that the majority are as concerned with the age difference but Fred's gross misuse of Scripture in order to justify his actions. For me, it's that simple.

Then perhaps dealing with his misuse of scripture (as you or others see it) should be addressed rather than some of the things being said. But that's just my thoughts on it. I'm not here to condemn anyone. I was looking to encourage more godly behavior, nothing more, nothing less.

[Michelle]

Ah, c'mon. He got exactly the reaction he was looking for, whether he's legit or he's making it up as a parody. Look at the title, then look at the OP. The only thing he revealed about the DAY they met was their ages at the time, then he signed off with the cryptic "want to hear more????" He meant to be provocative, he wanted opposition, and he was looking for one more opportunity to make himself seem more spiritual in his eyes and to bash the rest of us as religious minded pharisees. He got what he wanted, even if, as Eudyptes suspects, it's a joke. Where's the harm?

[Xmansmommy]

Ah, c'mon. He got exactly the reaction he was looking for, whether he's legit or he's making it up as a parody. Look at the title, then look at the OP. The only thing he revealed about the DAY they met was their ages at the time, then he signed off with the cryptic "want to hear more????" He meant to be provocative, he wanted opposition, and he was looking for one more opportunity to make himself seem more spiritual in his eyes and to bash the rest of us as religious minded pharisees. He got what he wanted, even if, as Eudyptes suspects, it's a joke. Where's the harm?

I hear ya and it may very well be a joke or a provocation but does that negate the responsibility of others to be kind, gentle, longsuffering, etc.? Look, I'm not gonna argue about this, Michelle. Those that will take offense at my comments will take offense. It was never meant to be an offense but I do understand that some will take it that way.

FWIW, he was three pages in before he even addressed any scripture. So it wasn't solely about his misuse of it. There really were some very rude comments made insinuating he was a child molester. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And that's all I'm going to say.

[Michelle]

I hear ya and it may very well be a joke or a provocation but does that negate the responsibility of others to be kind, gentle, longsuffering, etc.? Look, I'm not gonna argue about this, Michelle. Those that will take offense at my comments will take offense. It was never meant to be an offense but I do understand that some will take it that way.

FWIW, he was three pages in before he even addressed any scripture. So it wasn't solely about his misuse of it. There really were some very rude comments made insinuating he was a child molester. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And that's all I'm going to say.

Yeah, I don't really want to argue, either. I did feel a little bad and added a congratulations at the end of two of my posts. He does seem to have been a good husband and father, and I'm sure he will continue to be so.

[Xmansmommy]

Yeah, I don't really want to argue, either. I did feel a little bad and added a congratulations at the end of two of my posts. He does seem to have been a good husband and father, and I'm sure he will continue to be so.

I noticed that you added that. :smile: If God has blessed their union even when it seemed against the norm, I don't think anyone here can argue with that. At least not wisely.

[John Goddard]

Then perhaps dealing with his misuse of scripture (as you or others see it) should be addressed rather than some of the things being said. But that's just my thoughts on it. I'm not here to condemn anyone. I was looking to encourage more godly behavior, nothing more, nothing less.

I fully support Fred's efforts.

1 Kings 1:2 Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.

[FredFlanders]

I forgive you, Fred.
Jesus said 'Thank you' CP.

[Pilgrim]

I hear ya and it may very well be a joke or a provocation but does that negate the responsibility of others to be kind, gentle, longsuffering, etc.? Look, I'm not gonna argue about this, Michelle. Those that will take offense at my comments will take offense. It was never meant to be an offense but I do understand that some will take it that way.

FWIW, he was three pages in before he even addressed any scripture. So it wasn't solely about his misuse of it. There really were some very rude comments made insinuating he was a child molester. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And that's all I'm going to say.

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair, if he was physical with this girl when the first met then he was, legally, breaking the law. FWIW, so is the 23 year old your daughter is seeing if they're physical in their relationship. Just something to think about. Such laws are written for a reason, to protect the vulnerable, especially the vulnerable who are not yet mature enough to understand their particular vulnerability.

[FredFlanders]

Ty vs. Fred? Two inerrant, divinely-anointed Bible scholars/prophets gripping each others' throats in the name of inerrancy, divine-anointment, exegesis, and God's voice?




:popcorn:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T, if God wanted me to have more than one wife then all the women of Canada and America would have immigrated to Australia but one would have been left for that Man Ty.

[FredFlanders]

FF wouldn't argue for inerrancy, he has to allow for his ability to twist, redefine, ignore context, and add to the Scripture to make it fit his view....instead of taking the Scriptures as they were written and follow them.

And...I'm still leaning toward his being a parody....

Well E, rather than being all hot air what scriptures are you referring to on THIS topic.

[Michelle]

T, if God wanted me to have more than one wife then all the women of Canada and America would have immigrated to Australia but one would have been left for that Man Ty.

:lol: You live in America, right?

[FredFlanders]

And thus the true spirit of Christ is revealed.

P, as said before you do not know what the Spirit of Christ is.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

P, as said before you do not know what the Spirit of Christ is.

Well, that settles it.

[Country Preacher]

Jesus said 'Thank you' CP.

Well, yeah, but I would never expect that from FF! :smile:

[Xmansmommy]

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair, if he was physical with this girl when the first met then he was, legally, breaking the law. FWIW, so is the 23 year old your daughter is seeing if they're physical in their relationship. Just something to think about. Such laws are written for a reason, to protect the vulnerable, especially the vulnerable who are not yet mature enough to understand their particular vulnerability.

And I hear what you're saying too, Pilgrim. And I have no clue about Fred's situation so I cannot comment on it at all. But I will say that the laws have done absolutely nothing to protect my daughter in her vulnerability. I went to the police and they told me that at 16 (the age she was then) she is allowed to decide for herself whether or not she wants to have sex with this guy. So, I'm not sure what the purpose of the laws regarding statutory rape in Michigan are, but they seem not to be worth much at all when it comes down to implementing them.

[FredFlanders]

He said he had the blessing of the parents until they were persuaded to reconsider by religious folk. I am quite surprised at all the slack he is getting here even by people I highly respect. I understand the questioning of his motives but none of you have met him or his wife. I think the longevity of his marriage should speak for something. But whatever.

I personally don't know how I feel about this kind of situation as I have a 17 year old daughter who is dating a 23 year old guy. I do not approve of their relationship, nor have I since I found out about it. I have had to unwillingly acquiesce and since then God has told me to step back and let them sort it all out. So I've done just that, left it in His hands and trust.

I finally met him recently. He seems nice enough. Haven't had the opportunity to really have a heart to heart about his intentions, his goals in life, etc. but I hope to soon.

One of my biggest issues with my daughter's and these kinds of relationships is that I don't believe that they are on the same maturity level during these years. As for my daughter's boyfriend, I have noticed that he is a good influence on her in regards to maturity and tries to instill in her a sense of respect for me that was lacking. This even, when he knew I was extremely angry and not so kind toward him in my words.

I hope none of you have to experience this kind of thing in your own lives, with your own daughters or loved ones. Because if this thread is any indication of how things will go, you'll need God to help you through this far more than you can now know.

X, the whole exercise of this thread is that parents do not take up their God given authority when their Children find a partner. (and what I have said about my marriage is true) Parents on many occasions give that responsibility over to either the government or the church when God has given the authority over the relationship to the parents, in particular the Father of the Girl/Woman.
If your daughter has found a good man (regardless of age) then I would be putting my blessings on the relationship, having a talk with them and helping them plan their future. You may be able to offer some guidance and win their respect because if you don't take up your God given authority on this you will loose there respect. It is better gaining a Son in Law than loosing both of them.
In Bible times usually the Husband was a lot older than the Wife as they were in a better situation to provide.

[FredFlanders]

Again, I don't think that the majority are as concerned with the age difference but Fred's gross misuse of Scripture in order to justify his actions. For me, it's that simple.

What miss use of scripture are you talking about R?

[FredFlanders]

Then perhaps dealing with his misuse of scripture (as you or others see it) should be addressed rather than some of the things being said. But that's just my thoughts on it. I'm not here to condemn anyone. I was looking to encourage more godly behavior, nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks X, many of then don't have scripture, just arguments with their own carnal thinking.

[FredFlanders]

Ah, c'mon. He got exactly the reaction he was looking for, whether he's legit or he's making it up as a parody. Look at the title, then look at the OP. The only thing he revealed about the DAY they met was their ages at the time, then he signed off with the cryptic "want to hear more????" He meant to be provocative, he wanted opposition, and he was looking for one more opportunity to make himself seem more spiritual in his eyes and to bash the rest of us as religious minded pharisees. He got what he wanted, even if, as Eudyptes suspects, it's a joke. Where's the harm?

Correct Michelle, but my marriage is the truth.

[Obsidian]

Jesus said 'Thank you' CP.

ROFL

[RumTumTugger]

Ah, c'mon. He got exactly the reaction he was looking for, whether he's legit or he's making it up as a parody. Look at the title, then look at the OP. The only thing he revealed about the DAY they met was their ages at the time, then he signed off with the cryptic "want to hear more????" He meant to be provocative, he wanted opposition, and he was looking for one more opportunity to make himself seem more spiritual in his eyes and to bash the rest of us as religious minded pharisees. He got what he wanted, even if, as Eudyptes suspects, it's a joke. Where's the harm?

Then he had to go and show which spirit he is really listening to when he replied to one of CPs Posts with something that had to be edited. .

Way to Go FF you really have showed people which Spirit you are listening to that time. and it isn't the Holy Spirit.

[FredFlanders]

I hear ya and it may very well be a joke or a provocation but does that negate the responsibility of others to be kind, gentle, longsuffering, etc.? Look, I'm not gonna argue about this, Michelle. Those that will take offense at my comments will take offense. It was never meant to be an offense but I do understand that some will take it that way.

FWIW, he was three pages in before he even addressed any scripture. So it wasn't solely about his misuse of it. There really were some very rude comments made insinuating he was a child molester. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And that's all I'm going to say.Well said X, I can take what ever is said about me as I do not take offence and will give it back hopefully in a more humorous way but maybe American's do not understand Australian humor?

[Raphael]

Well said X, I can take what ever is said about me as I do not take offence and will give it back hopefully in a more humorous way but maybe American's do not understand Australian humor?
If you're an Aussie, then why did you say in your profile that you are American?

Besides, no-one understands Aussie humour, not even the Aussies.

And England is whipping the Aussies in the Ashes!

[RumTumTugger]

P, as said before you do not know what the Spirit of Christ is.

FF it is you who do not know. since you have yet to show the TRUE fruit of the Spirit of Christ. you who arrogantly twist out of context verses and passages from the bible to try and make your error driven(at best) unorthodox theology as being biblical. while attacking anyone who shows you your error where is the love, gentleness, Longsuffereing, etc Fruit you show hMM? look up Gal 5:22

Pilgrim is Right CP in his being willing to forgive you even though you arrogantly have yet apologize to him for what you said shows more of the TRUE fruit of the Spirit then you do.

[Teluog]

T, if God wanted me to have more than one wife then all the women of Canada and America would have immigrated to Australia but one would have been left for that Man Ty.

I fail to see how this is remotely relevant to what I said.

[FredFlanders]

If you're an Aussie, then why did you say in your profile that you are American?

Besides, no-one understands Aussie humour, not even the Aussies.

And England is whipping the Aussies in the Ashes!

Thanks R, that is not my profile. I do not know where that came from as I am married, working and have two children. I do not know why that has happened?

[FredFlanders]

And I hear what you're saying too, Pilgrim. And I have no clue about Fred's situation so I cannot comment on it at all. But I will say that the laws have done absolutely nothing to protect my daughter in her vulnerability. I went to the police and they told me that at 16 (the age she was then) she is allowed to decide for herself whether or not she wants to have sex with this guy. So, I'm not sure what the purpose of the laws regarding statutory rape in Michigan are, but they seem not to be worth much at all when it comes down to implementing them.

X, have a look at Mossrose post #33 and my post at #36. I was not going to put my children through the tribulation I had when I wanted to get married. I have a great relationship with my to be Son in Law.

[FredFlanders]

I fully support Fred's efforts.

1 Kings 1:2 Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat.

Thanks John, your a real Man too.

[FredFlanders]

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair, if he was physical with this girl when the first met then he was, legally, breaking the law. FWIW, so is the 23 year old your daughter is seeing if they're physical in their relationship. Just something to think about. Such laws are written for a reason, to protect the vulnerable, especially the vulnerable who are not yet mature enough to understand their particular vulnerability.

P, how do you know when some one is mature 16, 26,36,46. Some people are never mature.

[Country Preacher]

What miss use of scripture are you talking about R?

Miss use... is that like Miss USA? or Miss America? :smile:

[Country Preacher]

X, the whole exercise of this thread is that parents do not take up their God given authority to protect their Children from creeps.

Fixed it for ya, Fred.

[FredFlanders]

:lol: You live in America, right?

No, I just saw my profile was wrong. I do not know what has happened but I will get it fixed. America is a great place to visit but your men are bit wimpy.

[FredFlanders]

Well, that settles it.

Bye, Bye Eru.

[RumTumTugger]

Thanks R, that is not my profile. I do not know where that came from as I am married, working and have two children. I do not know why that has happened?

You mean you just kept the defaults of the rest of the profile when you signed up instead of changing them when you put in your gender and religious designations? Sheesh

[FredFlanders]

Well, yeah, but I would never expect that from FF! :smile:

Yeah well, Fred gives as well as he takes.

[FredFlanders]

You mean you just kept the defaults of the rest of the profile when you signed up instead of changing them when you put in your gender and religious designations? Sheesh

No that is not the profile I put in so I will get it fixed now that I know it is wrong.

[Country Preacher]

Yeah well, Fred gives as well as he takes.

Yeah, sure, Fred... whatever you say. I would think somebody of your extreme spiritual enlightenment would be a bit more refined, but - you are proving quite the contrary. You can't even decide what continent you live on! :smile:

[FredFlanders]

Then he had to go and show which spirit he is really listening to when he replied to one of CPs Posts with something that had to be edited. .

Way to Go FF you really have showed people which Spirit you are listening to that time. and it isn't the Holy Spirit.

So RTT, you think the Spirit of Christ is a wimp??

[FredFlanders]

I fail to see how this is remotely relevant to what I said.

I know T, you fail to see anything.

[FredFlanders]

Miss use... is that like Miss USA? or Miss America? :smile:

I still like your jokes CP but still that is all.:lol:

[FredFlanders]

Fixed it for ya, Fred.

That is a nice thing to say to a REAL Christian CP.

[Teluog]

I know T, you fail to see anything.

I never want to see things the way you do, Fred. Never.

[FredFlanders]

You mean you just kept the defaults of the rest of the profile when you signed up instead of changing them when you put in your gender and religious designations? Sheesh

Was that an American joke??

[FredFlanders]

Yeah, sure, Fred... whatever you say. I would think somebody of your extreme spiritual enlightenment would be a bit more refined, but - you are proving quite the contrary. You can't even decide what continent you live on! :smile:

Lucky for you it was not America and I did not become a Mormon.

[RumTumTugger]

So RTT, you think the Spirit of Christ is a wimp??

FF. one thing I know keeping discussions civil and clean is not wimpy. It only shows how immature someone is when they don't.

[John Goddard]

Thanks John, your a real Man too.

Well, if it was ok for Elvis to date Priscilla, fair's fair.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

That is a nice thing to say to a REAL Christian CP.

Oh, so now you're denying the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer. You're heaping sins upon your head like it's the last day of the 50% Off All Sins Sale.

[Country Preacher]

Lucky for you it was not America and I did not become a Mormon.

Freddie, you're making less and less sense as time goes on. You're not a parody, you're a joke.

[FredFlanders]

Freddie, you're making less and less sense as time goes on. You're not a parody, you're a joke.
If I was a Mormon there would not have been enough wives left for you wimpy Americans. (except for Ty)

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Oh goody, we have a new toy! Yo lunch was getting boring.

[rogue06]

If I was a Mormon there would not have been enough wives left for you wimpy Americans. (except for Ty)
And after that comment does anyone really think FF isn't a parody any longer?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

And after that comment does anyone really think FF isn't a parody any longer?

I'm not convinced. Stupid people are among us.

[Country Preacher]

If I was a Mormon there would not have been enough wives left for you wimpy Americans. (except for Ty)

And, again I say... you ARE entertaining! And SO EASY!

[eudyptes]

Oh, so now you're denying the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer. You're heaping sins upon your head like it's the last day of the 50% Off All Sins Sale.

Well he'd already called CP the antichrist...or was that Sparko...and he just said CP was unsaved...can't remember which was which. But he's basically called into question the salvation of anyone that doesn't agree with his positions.....when called on them he proof texts a few scriptures, ignores any argument and falls back to some paraphrase of:

"I have the Holy Spirit, you don't, so I know more than you and I'm a real Christian and you aren't"


....and then he switched to attempts at one liners....


....all in all....I vote parody....

[Raphael]

Well he'd already called CP the antichrist...or was that Sparko...and he just said CP was unsaved...can't remember which was which. But he's basically called into question the salvation of anyone that doesn't agree with his positions.....when called on them he proof texts a few scriptures, ignores any argument and falls back to some paraphrase of:

"I have the Holy Spirit, you don't, so I know more than you and I'm a real Christian and you aren't"


....and then he switched to attempts at one liners....


....all in all....I vote parody....
He hasn't exorcised Sparko from the thread yet...

[eudyptes]

He hasn't exorcised Sparko from the thread yet...

...I think Sparko was wise and left the thread...
....the antichrist comments and question salvation....were in other threads.....

[FredFlanders]

Well he'd already called CP the antichrist...or was that Sparko...and he just said CP was unsaved...can't remember which was which. But he's basically called into question the salvation of anyone that doesn't agree with his positions.....when called on them he proof texts a few scriptures, ignores any argument and falls back to some paraphrase of:

"I have the Holy Spirit, you don't, so I know more than you and I'm a real Christian and you aren't"
....and then he switched to attempts at one liners....
....all in all....I vote parody....The antichrist is a teaching that speaks against Christ and not a individual person. So CP does not have to get his hopes up that he has any importance what so ever. You speak against God's Word on marriage then you do the same as the False Prophets.

[FredFlanders]

FF. one thing I know keeping discussions civil and clean is not wimpy. It only shows how immature someone is when they don't.

RTT, you big religious sook.

[FredFlanders]

Well, if it was ok for Elvis to date Priscilla, fair's fair.
Yeah John I had the same problem having all the single girls in the church chasing me because of my Humility and got to chose the girl of my dreams. American wives tell their husbands (except you and Ty) that they found their children in the cabbage patch. But as we know the truth we will not tell the rest of the men.

[FredFlanders]

Oh, so now you're denying the work of the Holy Spirit in a believer. You're heaping sins upon your head like it's the last day of the 50% Off All Sins Sale.Eru your another religious clown in never, never land following Mr Magoo.

[Raphael]

...I think Sparko was wise and left the thread...
....the antichrist comments and question salvation....were in other threads.....
That was a reference to something Ty did once.

[Teluog]

I had the same problem having all the single girls in the church chasing me because of my Humility

:lol: Bragging about your Humility (with a capital "H"!)...........how ironic

[Eru Ilúvatar]

:lol: Bragging about your Humility (with a capital "H"!)...........how ironic

It must be a hypostasis of himself?

[Pilgrim]

P, how do you know when some one is mature 16, 26,36,46. Some people are never mature.

I one hundred percent agree with the second statement. (He we agreed on something! :cheers:) As to the first, only time will tell but in general children do not have that maturity. Some do but in general not many. That's why we protect them, which, I think is a primary reality of the Gospel. As a prof. of mine used to say, "The gospel is always the stronger protecting the weaker, always."

[Country Preacher]

The antichrist is a teaching that speaks against Christ and not a individual person. So CP does not have to get his hopes up that he has any importance what so ever. You speak against God's Word on marriage then you do the same as the False Prophets.

"The" antichrist is an individual, Fred, not a concept. "antichrist" would more properly fit what you're trying to say in your own deluded way. You don't have the common sense god gave a hubcap. And, YOU, Fred, follow the false prophets and EXCUSE them. You are a very confused boy.

[Pilgrim]

The antichrist is a teaching that speaks against Christ and not a individual person. So CP does not have to get his hopes up that he has any importance what so ever. You speak against God's Word on marriage then you do the same as the False Prophets.

You need to read the Bible again. The only place the word "anti Christ" is used is in the letters of John and then to describe any individual who does not exhibit the radical love of Christ to the brethren. Specifically John was responding to Gnosticism when he wrote of "anti-Christ."

[The Curtmudgeon]

You need to read the Bible for once.

Fixed your typo, Pilgrim.

The (you're welcome) Curtmudgeon

[Bill the Cat]

Hey Curt... you up for a pirate raid on this thread?


ARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

[Pilgrim]

Is that like a raid on the Horde?

[rogue06]

Hey Curt... you up for a pirate raid on this thread?


ARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!


Arrrr :yes: (Translation: I can only speak for myself but I would be most interested in conducting a raid of piratical nature on this thread)

[Bill the Cat]

Wher be the Cap'n??

[Bill the Cat]

Oh Cap'n!!!

[rogue06]

The ship's artillery be ready to support th' raid
:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----:cannon1:-----


:pirate:

[Pilgrim]

Mr. Christian, batten down the hatches! Stoke the ovens, prepare the BACON!

[RumTumTugger]

RTT, you big religious sook.

:lmbo: is that the best you can do FF?

ok folks move along nothing more to see here.




































He's got to be a parody.

[Pilgrim]

What's a sook?

[Jnthn]

What's a sook?A Scottish boiled sweet

J

[Country Preacher]

I didn't have any Bacon today! (yet)

[Pilgrim]

Thanks J. Who knew?

[RumTumTugger]

What's a sook?

here is the definition of sook (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sook) I found in my search.

[Chaotic Void]

RTT, you big religious sook.

Fred Flanders, you crazy sot.

[rogue06]

Fred Flanders, you crazy sot.
I've always been partial to "prat" myself.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

FredFlanders, you cotton-headed ninnymuggins.

[Sparko]

Why should I raid this thread? Fred said bacon is bad. no bacon, no pirates.

[Sparko]

Mr. Christian, batten down the hatches! Stoke the ovens, prepare the BACON!

Oops! I missed this post!

BACON!!!!

:madjack:

[Chaotic Void]

The ship's artillery be ready to support th' raid


I didn't know you played WoW! Cool!

[rogue06]

Oops! I missed this post!

BACON!!!!

:madjack:

If there be bacon to be had then there be Sparko ready to raid fer it.

:sparko::bacon3::bacon3::bacon3::bacon3::bacon3::bacon3::bacon3:

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Can I marry this bacon?

[Sparko]

Can I marry this bacon?

only if you are an ordained priest.

[FredFlanders]

I one hundred percent agree with the second statement. (He we agreed on something! :cheers:) As to the first, only time will tell but in general children do not have that maturity. Some do but in general not many. That's why we protect them, which, I think is a primary reality of the Gospel. As a prof. of mine used to say, "The gospel is always the stronger protecting the weaker, always."

Yes we can agree on that P. That is why in OT times and in Jewish culture if a couple got together sexually they would both be engaged (betrothed) and then the wedding date would be set by the Father of the Bride. Which would be at a time the groom had a place for the bride and could provide for her. It was not called "fornication" unless one of the parties got involved with a third party. The way many christian churches work today is that they either separate the couple ( and allow them to find another partner at some stage) or throw them out of fellowship. Both are not scriptural. When the church operates in this way it only gets youth disillusioned with God.

This fits like a glove to Pauls prophesy.

Paul warned us of this in the latter days in Timothy 4 v 1-5 of this problem. Paul was not talking about a change in food laws but rather young adults and marriage. We read; Now the Spirit speak expressly, (take note of these words) that in the latter times (the last days) some shall depart from the faith (their trust in God) paying heed (paying attention) to seducing spirits (some of the things a seducing spirit would say- “your too young to get married”, “marriage will spoil your life”, “if you marry your partner it will end in divorce”, “you have nothing in common with your partner”, “kids will ruin your life”, “you need to have an education before you get married”, “enjoy life before you get married”, “you will never have any money” etc) and doctrine of devils (miss leading teaching) Speaking lies (falsely/not from Gods word) in hypocrisy (acting/guilty of the same conduct, allowing marriage for themselves but not for others) having their conscience seared with a hot iron. (Not able to distinguish what is lawful and unlawful for a Christian) Forbidding (denying/refusing/hindering) to marry, and commanding (coming from a higher office) to abstain (kept from) from meats (Gods instructions/promises) which God has created to be received (Gods blessings to us) with thanksgiving (our praise to God) of them which believe (rely) and know (recognise/know accurately) the truth (nature of God). For every creature (new born soul) of God is good. (beautiful, handsome, excellent, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admiral, shapely and magnificent) and nothing to be refused (neglected, despised) if it be sanctified (made holy, purified, guided by) by the word of God and prayer. (Communion/relationship/friendship with God).

1 Cor 7 v 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

Ex 22 v 16 If any man entice a maid that is not betrothed and lie with her he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

Deut22 v 28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with her and they be found. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsels father fifty shekels of silver and he shall be his wife because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Some laws of God were just common sense transactions which was not counted as evil, fornication or had a penalty as we read in Ex 22v 16 and Deut 22v 28-29. Some however were evil, was fornication and had a penalty such as Deut 22v 23-24.

Here is an act of fornication which was called evil and had the penalty of death.
Deut22 v 23-24. If a damsel that is a virgin and be betrothed (engaged) to an husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them out unto the gate of the city and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel because she cried not being in the city and the man because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife, so thou shalt put away this evil from you.

[FredFlanders]

You need to read the Bible again. The only place the word "anti Christ" is used is in the letters of John and then to describe any individual who does not exhibit the radical love of Christ to the brethren. Specifically John was responding to Gnosticism when he wrote of "anti-Christ."

P and CP, I will discuss that with you on the thread "Recognizing the Antichrist in your Denomination" if you like?

[Bill the Cat]

Bacon!!!

[FredFlanders]

Bacon!!!

Hey Princess, you got any scriptural knowledge or wisdom on the matter what soever.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

B-b-bacon!

[Raphael]

Yes we can agree on that P. That is why in OT times and in Jewish culture if a couple got together sexually they would both be engaged (betrothed) and then the wedding date would be set by the Father of the Bride. Which would be at a time the groom had a place for the bride and could provide for her. It was not called "fornication" unless one of the parties got involved with a third party.That is incorrect.

If a man had sex with an unbetrothed virgin; then he would have to pay the bride price for her and make her his wife. If the father of the girl refused to allow the marriage, than the guilty party still had to pay the bride price. The man was not allowed to ever divorce the girl, and his having sex with her was considered a violation.

And your selective quoting of scripture does not help your case.

Exodus 22:16-17 (ESV) "If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins. "

This is repeated in Deuteronomy 22.
Deu 22:28-29 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
It is important to note however that Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is does not appear to be talking about consensual sex.

Also in Deuteronomy 22 is the mention that if a husband accused his wife of not being a virgin on their wedding day, if her parents can prove she was a virgin, then he was to be whipped and fined 100 shekels (and never allowed to divorce her). If the man was proved to be correct, then the girl was to be executed. (reason for the discrepancy in punishments folks was so that the man would have to provide for the woman for the rest of his life)

In anycase why do you think there was such an upset about Mary being pregnant while she was still only betrothed to Joseph.

(BTW you're not allowed to just make up customs on the spot)
The way many christian churches work today is that they either separate the couple (and allow them to find another partner at some stage) or throw them out of fellowship. Both are not scriptural. When the church operates in this way it only gets youth disillusioned with God.You have some weird churches in Australia.
With all the churches I've been involved with (apart from one) situations like this were dealt with grace and compassion, and only if the couple refuses repeatedly to behave themselves would removing them from the church be even considered (as per Paul's instructions)

The exception I have encountered was with a man who church is basically a cult.

This fits like a glove to Pauls prophesy.

Paul warned us of this in the latter days in Timothy 4 v 1-5 of this problem. Paul was not talking about a change in food laws but rather young adults and marriage. We read; Now the Spirit speak expressly, (take note of these words) that in the latter times (the last days) some shall depart from the faith (their trust in God) paying heed (paying attention) to seducing spirits (some of the things a seducing spirit would say- “your too young to get married”, “marriage will spoil your life”, “if you marry your partner it will end in divorce”, “you have nothing in common with your partner”, “kids will ruin your life”, “you need to have an education before you get married”, “enjoy life before you get married”, “you will never have any money” etc) and doctrine of devils (miss leading teaching) Speaking lies (falsely/not from Gods word) in hypocrisy (acting/guilty of the same conduct, allowing marriage for themselves but not for others) having their conscience seared with a hot iron. (Not able to distinguish what is lawful and unlawful for a Christian) Forbidding (denying/refusing/hindering) to marry, and commanding (coming from a higher office) to abstain (kept from) from meats (Gods instructions/promises) which God has created to be received (Gods blessings to us) with thanksgiving (our praise to God) of them which believe (rely) and know (recognise/know accurately) the truth (nature of God). For every creature (new born soul) of God is good. (beautiful, handsome, excellent, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admiral, shapely and magnificent) and nothing to be refused (neglected, despised) if it be sanctified (made holy, purified, guided by) by the word of God and prayer. (Communion/relationship/friendship with God). Good grief, can you twist scripture even more than that?

Paul was not talking about people who say "you should not marry that particular person for this particular reason". He was talking about people who were forbidding any marriage.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (ESV) Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

1 Cor 7 v 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.Well of course if you leave out half of what Paul is saying you can make it say anything you want.

First of all Paul is clearly saying here that abstinence is good. but husband and wife should not abstain except for a short times in order to focus more on God. (v1-5)

Secondly Paul that he would prefer for people to remain single as he is single. but if they have no self control they should get married. (v8-9)

Then Paul is talking about how it is better for betrothed people to remain abstinent (whoops that flies in the face of your opening statement) but if they cannot remain abstinent, then they should get married. (and that getting married is not sinful)

Nowhere is Paul advocating anything except abstinence among the unwed, and sex between husband and wife (after they have married only)

Ex 22 v 16 If any man entice a maid that is not betrothed and lie with her he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

Deut22 v 28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her and lie with her and they be found. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsels father fifty shekels of silver and he shall be his wife because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Some laws of God were just common sense transactions which was not counted as evil, fornication or had a penalty as we read in Ex 22v 16 and Deut 22v 28-29. Some however were evil, was fornication and had a penalty such as Deut 22v 23-24.

Here is an act of fornication which was called evil and had the penalty of death.
Deut22 v 23-24. If a damsel that is a virgin and be betrothed (engaged) to an husband, and a man find her in the city and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them out unto the gate of the city and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel because she cried not being in the city and the man because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife, so thou shalt put away this evil from you.Addressed up above.

[Country Preacher]

P and CP, I will discuss that with you on the thread "Recognizing the Antichrist in your Denomination" if you like?

Thanks, Fred. I think I'd rather have a root canal without anesthesia. It would be less painful and more straightforward. :smile: But how bout some Bacon?

[FredFlanders]

B-b-bacon!

S o o k

[Bill the Cat]

Hey Princess, you got any scriptural knowledge or wisdom on the matter what soever.

You got anything better than third grade insults, Mr. Troll?

[Country Preacher]

You got anything better than third grade insults, Mr. Troll?

If God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble, what does he give to Trolls?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

If God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble, what does he give to Trolls?

Bacon.

[Country Preacher]

Bacon.

Hmmmmm... do Trolls DESERVE Bacon???? Or is that just the manifold grace of God?

[Bill the Cat]

Exhaust manifold?

[Country Preacher]

Exhaust manifold?

Well, the OP author DOES spout a lot of hot air. :shrug:

(Otherwise....



Main Entry:
1man·i·fold Listen to the pronunciation of 1manifold
Pronunciation:
\ˈma-nə-ˌfōld\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English manigfeald, from manig many + -feald -fold
Date:
before 12th century

1 a: marked by diversity or variety b: many2: comprehending or uniting various features : multifarious3: rightfully so-called for many reasons <a manifold liar>4: consisting of or operating many of one kind combined <a manifold bellpull>
— man·i·fold·ly Listen to the pronunciation of manifoldly \-ˌfōl(d)-lē\ adverb
— man·i·fold·ness Listen to the pronunciation of manifoldness \-ˌfōl(d)-nəs\ noun

THAT kind of manifold)

[Bill the Cat]

BTW, Love the tractor pulling in your avatar! I do that with my kids all the time. Strange how they love to go 5 MPH...

[Country Preacher]

BTW, Love the tractor pulling in your avatar! I do that with my kids all the time. Strange how they love to go 5 MPH...

One day last summer, I lined the trailer with a tarp, filled the trailer with water, and the kids got into the "mobile swimming pool" and we drove down the road - they LOVED it!

[FredFlanders]

That is incorrect.

If a man had sex with an unbetrothed virgin; then he would have to pay the bride price for her and make her his wife. If the father of the girl refused to allow the marriage, than the guilty party still had to pay the bride price. The man was not allowed to ever divorce the girl, and his having sex with her was considered a violation.

And your selective quoting of scripture does not help your case.

Exodus 22:16-17 (ESV) "If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins. "

This is repeated in Deuteronomy 22.
Deu 22:28-29 "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."
It is important to note however that Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is does not appear to be talking about consensual sex.

Also in Deuteronomy 22 is the mention that if a husband accused his wife of not being a virgin on their wedding day, if her parents can prove she was a virgin, then he was to be whipped and fined 100 shekels (and never allowed to divorce her). If the man was proved to be correct, then the girl was to be executed. (reason for the discrepancy in punishments folks was so that the man would have to provide for the woman for the rest of his life)

In anycase why do you think there was such an upset about Mary being pregnant while she was still only betrothed to Joseph.

(BTW you're not allowed to just make up customs on the spot)
You have some weird churches in Australia.
With all the churches I've been involved with (apart from one) situations like this were dealt with grace and compassion, and only if the couple refuses repeatedly to behave themselves would removing them from the church be even considered (as per Paul's instructions)

The exception I have encountered was with a man who church is basically a cult.

Good grief, can you twist scripture even more than that?

Paul was not talking about people who say "you should not marry that particular person for this particular reason". He was talking about people who were forbidding any marriage.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 (ESV) Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Well of course if you leave out half of what Paul is saying you can make it say anything you want.

First of all Paul is clearly saying here that abstinence is good. but husband and wife should not abstain except for a short times in order to focus more on God. (v1-5)

Secondly Paul that he would prefer for people to remain single as he is single. but if they have no self control they should get married. (v8-9)

Then Paul is talking about how it is better for betrothed people to remain abstinent (whoops that flies in the face of your opening statement) but if they cannot remain abstinent, then they should get married. (and that getting married is not sinful)

Nowhere is Paul advocating anything except abstinence among the unwed, and sex between husband and wife (after they have married only)

Addressed up above.

Raphael, glad some one wants to loo see what th Word of God say's about the matter.


What I said was correct.


In Ex 22 v 16-17, Yes there was a bride price. The Father of the bride could only refuse the marriage if there was a valid reason such as the husband did not have any means of support. The word "violation" simply meant "uncovered her" and was not a crime. The price of the bride would have been paid anyway if it had been an arranged marriage. In the OT marriage was either initiated by sex or arranged by the parents with the consent of both children. The Jews follow the same pattern today but usually the dowry is just a small token.


In Deut 22 v 28-29 the word "seized" simply implies that she was "stopped" and the word "humbled" also has the translation of gentleness and ravished which I would expect be a more accurate translation. Again there was no penalty for the action as the bride price would have been paid anyway and also fits in with Ex 22. If the action was by force then the virgin always had the option to cry for help. The action in Deut 22 v 28-29 is the same in society today when a man seduces a woman but the scriptural answer is to get married.


In the case of Mary and Joseph there was no upset from any one that Mary was pregnant before her marriage because it was not a sin to have had sex as long as the marriage was fullfilled. It was only a sin or fornication if one of the parties got involved in a third party Deut 22 v 25-27.


Raphael what do you mean some situations were dealt with grace and compassion in Australia???


And what is Pauls instructions to those that cannot contain themselves???


And yes Paul was saying to stay single for some is good and if they decided abstinace was not for them then what was the answer regardless of age???


A good concordance or Bible dictionary would be good thing to purchase and have a look at 1 Tim 4 v 15. Do you realy think it was about God changing the food laws???


Anyway Raphael, God bless you for wanting to look at scripture rather than the Hot Air I am getting from the other sooks.

[FredFlanders]

You got anything better than third grade insults, Mr. Troll?

Hey Princess why don't you and Eru go and have a root canal with CP. Sounds like fun.

[Country Preacher]

Hey Princess why don't you and Eru go and have a root canal with CP. Sounds like fun.

Sounds like you're spirit controlled, Fred... and I suspect I know what spirit. :smile:

[Sparko]

Sounds like you're spirit controlled, Fred... and I suspect I know what spirit. :smile:

So Fred is "trolling in the Spirit"?

[Country Preacher]

So Fred is "trolling in the Spirit"?

Little "s" - spirit... he has the spirit of junior high. :smile:

[FredFlanders]

So Fred is "trolling in the Spirit"?

So Sparky your back. Have you finished your big sook????:bawl::bawl::ba:ba:bawl:wl:wl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:

[Eru Ilúvatar]

So Sparky your back. Have you finished your big sook????:bawl::bawl::ba:ba:bawl:wl:wl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:

:bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon:

[candlesandfish]

Wait, noone was upset about Mary being pregnant? So, Joseph had no reason to seek to put her away privately (since he was a just/devout man?).

I seem to have been reading the wrong Bible :tongue:

[rogue06]

:bacon2::bacon3::bacon2::bacon3::bacon2::bacon3::bacon2:
FIFY. No charge.

[Sparko]

So Sparky your back. Have you finished your big sook????:bawl::bawl::ba:ba:bawl:wl:wl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:

can't you do any better insults than that? are you 10?

and now you are "crying in the spirit"?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

He's peeing his pants....in the spirit. He's jabbering like an idiot....in tongues.

[Pilgrim]

So Sparky your back. Have you finished your big sook????:bawl::bawl::ba:ba:bawl:wl:wl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:::bawl:bawl::bawl:

As opposed to "their" back?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

As opposed to "their" back?

Very subtle :thumb:

[Raphael]

Raphael, glad some one wants to loo see what th Word of God say's about the matter.I am already well aware of what the Bible says on the issue.

What I said was correct.I disagree


In Ex 22 v 16-17, Yes there was a bride price. The Father of the bride could only refuse the marriage if there was a valid reason such as the husband did not have any means of support. The word "violation" simply meant "uncovered her" and was not a crime. The price of the bride would have been paid anyway if it had been an arranged marriage. In the OT marriage was either initiated by sex or arranged by the parents with the consent of both children. The Jews follow the same pattern today but usually the dowry is just a small token.That is incorrect. The Bible never refer to sex between man and wife as being a "violation". There is no shame about sex between man and wife, there is shame in sex between those who are not married.
The bride price was demanded because, as she was no longer a virgin, the woman would have serious difficulty in marrying someone else.

Mosaic Law allows divorce, except for when the man has violated the woman (as in Exodus 22 and Deuteronomy 22) in which case he is never allowed to divorce her and must provide for her for the rest of her life (unless of course the woman's father refused to let them be married, which would have been the case had the violation of the woman been violent etc. The Law is protecting to woman from harm and making sure she is provided for).

This is at serious odds with your theories of Ancient Judaic customs.

In Deut 22 v 28-29 the word "seized" simply implies that she was "stopped" and the word "humbled" also has the translation of gentleness and ravished which I would expect be a more accurate translation. Again there was no penalty for the action as the bride price would have been paid anyway and also fits in with Ex 22. If the action was by force then the virgin always had the option to cry for help. The action in Deut 22 v 28-29 is the same in society today when a man seduces a woman but the scriptural answer is to get married. That is incorrect.
The word translated as "seized" in the English Standard Version is not merely the word "stopped" and nor does the test imply a situation of a man stopping a pretty girl and going off for a consensual romp with her.
The word is tâphaś, and the Brown Driver Briggs dictionary has the following:
H8610
תּפשׂ
tâphaś
BDB Definition:
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
1a2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
1b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
1c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2538

The only time mention is made is of the woman crying out for help if the woman is betrothed already and does not cry out (if they were in the city) as it is then assumed that she was a willing participant, and she would then be executed alongside the man.

Again the scriptures do not support you idea of Ancient Judaic culture.

In the case of Mary and Joseph there was no upset from any one that Mary was pregnant before her marriage because it was not a sin to have had sex as long as the marriage was fullfilled. It was only a sin or fornication if one of the parties got involved in a third party Deut 22 v 25-27.See candlesandfish's comment.

Raphael what do you mean some situations were dealt with grace and compassion in Australia??? No, I'm talking about Churches in South Africa and New Zealand. I've never been to Australia and have no desire to as it is full of Aussies (and Shane)

....apologies C&F.

And what is Pauls instructions to those that cannot contain themselves???Paul's instruction, to those who are betrothed, is to get married.
Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

And yes Paul was saying to stay single for some is good and if they decided abstinace was not for them then what was the answer regardless of age??? Again Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

A good concordance or Bible dictionary would be good thing to purchase and have a look at 1 Tim 4 v 15. Do you realy think it was about God changing the food laws???Did you even read what I wrote about 1 Tim 4?
Paul was not talking about people who say "you should not marry that particular person for this particular reason". He was talking about people who were forbidding any marriage (as well as restricting diet) .

Anyway Raphael, God bless you for wanting to look at scripture rather than the Hot Air I am getting from the other sooks.I wish you would return the favour and look at scripture without trying to distort it to your preconceived notions.

[FredFlanders]

Wait, noone was upset about Mary being pregnant? So, Joseph had no reason to seek to put her away privately (since he was a just/devout man?).

I seem to have been reading the wrong Bible :tongue:C, are you telling me Joseph was still 'upset' after he knew the truth about the pregnancy?? Are you telling me there were other people who were 'upset' at Mary being pregnant before her marriage?

[FredFlanders]

I am already well aware of what the Bible says on the issue.

I disagree


That is incorrect. The Bible never refer to sex between man and wife as being a "violation". There is no shame about sex between man and wife, there is shame in sex between those who are not married.
The bride price was demanded because, as she was no longer a virgin, the woman would have serious difficulty in marrying someone else.

Mosaic Law allows divorce, except for when the man has violated the woman (as in Exodus 22 and Deuteronomy 22) in which case he is never allowed to divorce her and must provide for her for the rest of her life (unless of course the woman's father refused to let them be married, which would have been the case had the violation of the woman been violent etc. The Law is protecting to woman from harm and making sure she is provided for).

This is at serious odds with your theories of Ancient Judaic customs.

That is incorrect.
The word translated as "seized" in the English Standard Version is not merely the word "stopped" and nor does the test imply a situation of a man stopping a pretty girl and going off for a consensual romp with her.
The word is tâpha, and the Brown Driver Briggs dictionary has the following:
H8610

tâpha
BDB Definition:
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
1a2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
1b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
1c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strongs Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2538

The only time mention is made is of the woman crying out for help if the woman is betrothed already and does not cry out (if they were in the city) as it is then assumed that she was a willing participant, and she would then be executed alongside the man.

Again the scriptures do not support you idea of Ancient Judaic culture.

See candlesandfish's comment.

No, I'm talking about Churches in South Africa and New Zealand. I've never been to Australia and have no desire to as it is full of Aussies (and Shane)

....apologies C&F.

Paul's instruction, to those who are betrothed, is to get married.
Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

Again Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

Did you even read what I wrote about 1 Tim 4?
Paul was not talking about people who say "you should not marry that particular person for this particular reason". He was talking about people who were forbidding any marriage (as well as restricting diet) .

I wish you would return the favour and look at scripture without trying to distort it to your preconceived notions.R, you did not answer the question. What exactly do you mean they were dealt with grace and compassion? Where does Paul say that those who are betrothed should get married? And again I ask you what does Paul say to those who cannot contain?
A

[FredFlanders]

I am already well aware of what the Bible says on the issue.

I disagree


That is incorrect. The Bible never refer to sex between man and wife as being a "violation". There is no shame about sex between man and wife, there is shame in sex between those who are not married.
The bride price was demanded because, as she was no longer a virgin, the woman would have serious difficulty in marrying someone else.

Mosaic Law allows divorce, except for when the man has violated the woman (as in Exodus 22 and Deuteronomy 22) in which case he is never allowed to divorce her and must provide for her for the rest of her life (unless of course the woman's father refused to let them be married, which would have been the case had the violation of the woman been violent etc. The Law is protecting to woman from harm and making sure she is provided for).

This is at serious odds with your theories of Ancient Judaic customs.

That is incorrect.
The word translated as "seized" in the English Standard Version is not merely the word "stopped" and nor does the test imply a situation of a man stopping a pretty girl and going off for a consensual romp with her.
The word is tâpha, and the Brown Driver Briggs dictionary has the following:
H8610

tâpha
BDB Definition:
1) to catch, handle, lay hold, take hold of, seize, wield
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to lay hold of, seize, arrest, catch
1a2) to grasp (in order to) wield, wield, use skilfully
1b) (Niphal) to be seized, be arrested, be caught, be taken, captured
1c) (Piel) to catch, grasp (with the hands)
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strongs Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2538

The only time mention is made is of the woman crying out for help if the woman is betrothed already and does not cry out (if they were in the city) as it is then assumed that she was a willing participant, and she would then be executed alongside the man.

Again the scriptures do not support you idea of Ancient Judaic culture.

See candlesandfish's comment.

No, I'm talking about Churches in South Africa and New Zealand. I've never been to Australia and have no desire to as it is full of Aussies (and Shane)

....apologies C&F.

Paul's instruction, to those who are betrothed, is to get married.
Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

Again Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.

Did you even read what I wrote about 1 Tim 4?
Paul was not talking about people who say "you should not marry that particular person for this particular reason". He was talking about people who were forbidding any marriage (as well as restricting diet) .

I wish you would return the favour and look at scripture without trying to distort it to your preconceived notions.And R, where exactly does it say in 1 Tim 4 about 'restricting diet'

[Xmansmommy]

X, have a look at Mossrose post #33 and my post at #36. I was not going to put my children through the tribulation I had when I wanted to get married. I have a great relationship with my to be Son in Law.

Hey Fred,

I did notice that and I am very glad for you that you and your future son in law have a great relationship. :thumb:

[Xmansmommy]

X, the whole exercise of this thread is that parents do not take up their God given authority when their Children find a partner.

I would like some clarification on this if you would please, Fred? I'm not sure I'm aware of what my God given authority on this matter is.

(and what I have said about my marriage is true)

I have no reason to disbelieve you.

Parents on many occasions give that responsibility over to either the government or the church when God has given the authority over the relationship to the parents, in particular the Father of the Girl/Woman.

Again, I would love to hear your insight into this area especially in light of the fact that I am a single mom whose ex is not involved in his daughter's lives.

If your daughter has found a good man (regardless of age) then I would be putting my blessings on the relationship, having a talk with them and helping them plan their future.

Well Fred, I'm not certain he is a good man. I have a lot to learn about him. I just recently met him (a couple of weeks ago) and haven't had the chance to really get to know him yet.

You may be able to offer some guidance and win their respect because if you don't take up your God given authority on this you will loose there respect. It is better gaining a Son in Law than loosing both of them.

I haven't had my daughter's respect in several years now so I'm not sure what difference it will make. She has been rebellious and determined to do things her way. This relationship being another evidence of that. Now she may love him, to the extent that she knows how to love at her age and vice versa but the entire relationship was hid from me for months while she used false pretenses and deception to go see him. Surely you can understand why I would be upset?

In Bible times usually the Husband was a lot older than the Wife as they were in a better situation to provide.

I wasn't personally challenging your position. I do however, question this guy's ability to provide for my daughter. But that is neither here nor there at this point since they are determined to be together for the time being without any future plans to marry, to my knowledge.

[Bill the Cat]

Hey Princess why don't you and Eru go and have a root canal with CP. Sounds like fun.

Hey dimwit... in case you can't read English... my profile says MALE. A Princess is the DAUGHTER (read FEMALE) of a King. SO either you can't read English or you are a liar spreading false claims about me when you know it is false. Are you a liar Fred?

[RumTumTugger]

Little "s" - spirit... he has the spirit of junior high. :smile:

More like the spirit of elementary school I'd say.

[Country Preacher]

More like the spirit of elementary school I'd say.

I was being generous. You, on the other hand, are being a bit more accurate. :smile:

[Raphael]

R, you did not answer the question. What exactly do you mean they were dealt with grace and compassion? Apologies, I was hurried when writing my response and I thought about it, and forgot to type it.
If a unmarried couple (age regardless....within reason) were found to be having sex (we're not talking about affairs here, that is covered under adultery...more later) the pastor would sit down quietly with them and talk to them about it, and tell them to refrain from doing so. The couple was not told to break up, or told to see other people. They were advised about why it was wrong, and told that they should remain abstinate until marriage.
If the couple refused correction, the appropiate actions perscribed by Pauls would be taken.

With reagards to my comment about age: if they're a seriously underage couple, it would be handled slightly differently and would include the parents (who I imagine would step rather heavily on the relationship). If it was a much older person with someone underage, that too would be dealt with differently as there are legal issues with it. (statutory rape should never be dealt with lightely)

And what is Pauls instructions to those that cannot contain themselves???
Paul's instruction, to those who are betrothed, is to get married.
Paul is not advocating premarital hanky panky.
Where does Paul say that those who are betrothed should get married? Paul does not say that everyone who is betrothed should get married. He suggests (his own suggestion, not a command from God) that those who are betrothed should remain abstinant, if they can. But with those who are betrothed, if they cannot contain their desires, they should get married. (again Paul is not condoning premarital sex here).
1 Corinthians 7:36-38 (ESV)
If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry—it is no sin. But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better.

And again I ask you what does Paul say to those who cannot contain?
Arepeated above, Paul tells those who cannot control their desires to get married, that is not in dispute. What is in dispute is your saying that they were allowed to have premarital sex and then decide to get married.

And R, where exactly does it say in 1 Tim 4 about 'restricting diet'Is English your First Language?

Paul is clearly instructing Timothy about heretics who preach against [all] Marriage, and who restrict peoples diet. (I say all marriage to differentiate it from your wild notion that anyone who object to a particular person marrying another particular person for what are valid reasons as being one of these heretics). And indeed Paul devotes more space dealing with those requiring abstinence from certain foods than on the marriage issue.

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (ESV, Emphasis mine)
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

[FredFlanders]

I would like some clarification on this if you would please, Fred? I'm not sure I'm aware of what my God given authority on this matter is.



I have no reason to disbelieve you.



Again, I would love to hear your insight into this area especially in light of the fact that I am a single mom whose ex is not involved in his daughter's lives.



Well Fred, I'm not certain he is a good man. I have a lot to learn about him. I just recently met him (a couple of weeks ago) and haven't had the chance to really get to know him yet.



I haven't had my daughter's respect in several years now so I'm not sure what difference it will make. She has been rebellious and determined to do things her way. This relationship being another evidence of that. Now she may love him, to the extent that she knows how to love at her age and vice versa but the entire relationship was hid from me for months while she used false pretenses and deception to go see him. Surely you can understand why I would be upset?



I wasn't personally challenging your position. I do however, question this guy's ability to provide for my daughter. But that is neither here nor there at this point since they are determined to be together for the time being without any future plans to marry, to my knowledge.

X, I do have sympathy for you being a single Mom and trying to care for your family but as we know tribulation brings us closer to God.

We were always told that when our two girls became teenagers we would get a little more tribulation. How true that is as they become more independent and head strong. So we are both in the same boat here. Out daughters had always been brought up in the church and I imagined that we would not get this tribulation and I thought they would find a Christian husband when the time came as this was our direction to them. But I was also wrong on that point also. Although both daughters got baptized of their own accord at around the age of 10, I knew that there commitment to Christ was not to the full extent it should be and not that we can force any one to believe, they both stopped attending church at about 14 years of age. We do pray for them and continue to guide them in God's ways while they are still living with us and maybe one day they will come back to the Lord in a serious way.

X, not knowing the full extent of your daughter and her boy friend as well as your circumstances so it is not wise for me to tell you what to do in this situation other than to say that to Love the boyfriend as a Christian and get to know him a little more. Maybe invite him over to a specially prepared dinner and get on good talking terms with him. He may be just the man for your daughter and/or maybe you can give him some direction if he does not have a job or does not have plans in marrying your daughter.

When I could see my daughter was in a close relationship with her boy friend the first thing my wife and I did was invite them to a family dinner at a restaurant. The boy friend had colored bright red hair going in all directions and a few more studs in his face for the occasion. This was the first time I really got to know him. He was very shy but you could talk to him. Choosing his meal was very interesting as we realised he had never eaten in a restaurant before as his greatest dinning experience had been McDonalds. So after quite a long period of time my daughter had finally chosen a meal for him. This is where we learnt a little more about him. It was obvious his parents had little time for him as they were not in a place to do so. As the boy friend had left school when he was 12 years old and is now 16 years old nothing much had changed. But we did find out that he was good at pulling apart computers and engines and fixing them so that is the direction we pointed him in to get a job. He did not have the confidence to find a job but after 'a make over' and my daughter searching door to door with him they found a suitable job, computer programing in a factory making various plastic products. Although both my daughter and boy friend are in work their wages are not great but as far as I am concerned everything is happening to plan their future.

X, with yourself looking to Christ I am sure you will find the answers you are looking for.

[FredFlanders]

Apologies, I was hurried when writing my response and I thought about it, and forgot to type it.
If a unmarried couple (age regardless....within reason) were found to be having sex (we're not talking about affairs here, that is covered under adultery...more later) the pastor would sit down quietly with them and talk to them about it, and tell them to refrain from doing so. The couple was not told to break up, or told to see other people. They were advised about why it was wrong, and told that they should remain abstinate until marriage.
If the couple refused correction, the appropiate actions perscribed by Pauls would be taken.

With reagards to my comment about age: if they're a seriously underage couple, it would be handled slightly differently and would include the parents (who I imagine would step rather heavily on the relationship). If it was a much older person with someone underage, that too would be dealt with differently as there are legal issues with it. (statutory rape should never be dealt with lightely)

Paul does not say that everyone who is betrothed should get married. He suggests (his own suggestion, not a command from God) that those who are betrothed should remain abstinant, if they can. But with those who are betrothed, if they cannot contain their desires, they should get married. (again Paul is not condoning premarital sex here).
1 Corinthians 7:36-38 (ESV)
If anyone thinks that he is not behaving properly toward his betrothed, if his passions are strong, and it has to be, let him do as he wishes: let them marry—it is no sin. But whoever is firmly established in his heart, being under no necessity but having his desire under control, and has determined this in his heart, to keep her as his betrothed, he will do well. So then he who marries his betrothed does well, and he who refrains from marriage will do even better.

repeated above, Paul tells those who cannot control their desires to get married, that is not in dispute. What is in dispute is your saying that they were allowed to have premarital sex and then decide to get married.

Is English your First Language?

Paul is clearly instructing Timothy about heretics who preach against [all] Marriage, and who restrict peoples diet. (I say all marriage to differentiate it from your wild notion that anyone who object to a particular person marrying another particular person for what are valid reasons as being one of these heretics). And indeed Paul devotes more space dealing with those requiring abstinence from certain foods than on the marriage issue.

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (ESV, Emphasis mine)
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

Raphael, thanks for being so direct and giving me the extra information. The way the Pastor has gone about this situation in typical of many churches but scripturally it is wrong. When it comes to marriage and relationships the church looks to State Laws rather than the Word of God. State Laws are for the heathen and not those that follow Christ. Although Jews do not follow Christ they conduct marriage and relationships according to scripture and not the Laws of man (doctrine of devils). Paul knew this when writing to the NT church. Paul never called a couple to abstinence if a couple could not contain their desires one for one another. Total abstinence was ok for some but not all. Paul knew from OT scripture that if a couple could not contain themselves, the direction was for them to be betrothed (so they could not get involved with a third party and commit fornication) and then marry at an appropriate time as set by the Brides Father. Marriage had nothing to do with State Law but the responsibility was with the parents. Total abstinence for ALL is not scriptural and a lot of young adults get wrongfully condemned by Religious people who do not know the scriptures and put the Laws of man over the Laws of God. To forbid ALL those under 18 to total abstinence because of man's law is not scriptural.

Raphael you dig deep into scripture so have a look at Tim 4 v 1-5 again with a good concordance and look at each word separately and you will see v 3, 4 and 5 are to do with marriage and not food. Paul's prophesy is totally correct to what religion is doing today.

[FredFlanders]

Hey dimwit... in case you can't read English... my profile says MALE. A Princess is the DAUGHTER (read FEMALE) of a King. SO either you can't read English or you are a liar spreading false claims about me when you know it is false. Are you a liar Fred?

Bill, I will not call you names etc if you don't talk false religion other wise look out. :mob:

[Bill the Cat]

Bill, I will not call you names etc if you don't talk false religion other wise look out. :mob:

I have spoken nothing of false religion. Yet, you called me a female, which you know is a lie. Do you repent of that lie or will you remain in sin?

[FredFlanders]

I have spoken nothing of false religion. Yet, you called me a female, which you know is a lie. Do you repent of that lie or will you remain in sin?

Fred remains in sin until he get some scriptural meat from you. :blush:

[Darth Executor]

Yeah John I had the same problem having all the single girls in the church chasing me because of my Humility

FF wins this entire thread. There is no way anyone else here can top this comment.

[rogue06]

FF wins this entire thread. There is no way anyone else here can top this comment.
Yahweh is a fire-breathing dragon.



















Well, you can't say I didn't try.

[Teluog]

Well, you can't say I didn't try.

MY ARGUMENT SMASHES THE BRAINS OUT OF YOUR ARGUMENT!

Remember that one from theostudent?

[Country Preacher]

When I met my wife 25 years ago she was 15 and I was 27.

Because you were both in the same grade?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Because you were both in the same grade?

BURNT!

[FredFlanders]

Because you were both in the same grade?
CP, you have finally worked out how I know so much. Christ can only teach a Child.

[Country Preacher]

CP, you have finally worked out how I know so much. Christ can only teach a Child.

So an old guy like you has no chance, eh?

[Bill the Cat]

Fred remains in sin until he get some scriptural meat from you. :blush:

When you make a biblical point, then I'll respond with scripture. Until then, you have proven yourself as both a troll and a liar.

[FredFlanders]

When you make a biblical point, then I'll respond with scripture. Until then, you have proven yourself as both a troll and a liar.
Jill, your very emotional. Have you lost your Sword?

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Jill, your very emotional. Have you lost your Sword?

'scuse me, sir, do you have any bacon that I could have?

[rogue06]

Jill, your very emotional. Have you lost your Sword?
Hey Fred. Why did you suddenly abandon the thread you started Hey Circumcised One. Why did you kill Shechem? (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=130627) right after you made this post

You religious people are so boring so I thought I would try Fred's skills else where. Maybe the Jewish know more about God than so called christians do?

Could it be that you realized that you slipped up and let the cat out of the bag with the “You religious people” comment? That this little blunder exposes you as the fraud you are?

Hmmm?

[Bill the Cat]

Jill, your very emotional. Have you lost your Sword?

Liar. :fib:

Oh, and a crappy speller. It's "You're" not "your". Idiot.

[Eru Ilúvatar]

My bacon brings all the boys to the yard,
and their like,
"Could I have some?"
"Yes sir, you can have some.
But there's not much
so I have to charge."

I know you want it,
the meat that makes me,
What the guys go crazy for.
Pigs lose their lives,
the way I fry.
I think it's fly.

[Bill the Cat]

.