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View Full Version : Love fulfills all laws and commands (Rom13, 8-10) and the paradox of Christ.


stephen goswami
July 27th 2009, 08:16 AM
Christ claimed that he fulfilled the Old Testament while openly disobeyed its laws. Here this paradox is explained.
Here many fathers work abroad. They usually authorize the eldest son, when mother is weak. One such stern soldier father commanded son to regularly discipline the delinquent younger one by the rod. But the eldest was wise to know that such punishment will permanently harm. So he disobeyed and tried to discipline him by love and patience. It took time and father was angry. But he succeeded at length. Father understood that the eldest was the most obedient even when he disobeyed his command. The command of the heart over rides the command of the mouth.
Here are two disastrous examples of obeying commands literally.
Here often angry parents orders children to leave home or even commit suicide.
Near my house a Christian family lived with their two teenager sons. The youngest was spoilt. One day in a fit of anger mother ordered him to leave home. The boy obeyed and they could find any trace of him. She resolved that if he does not return by Christmas she will suicide. On that day she poured kerosene on herself and ignited. Husband tried to save but he was also burned. Both were buried on the same day in the same grave. The lonely eldest now lives a melancholy life. Often such happen here.
In the Ramayana epic the hero Ram obeyed the forced will of his father to banish himself. As a result his old father died due to grief. That misdeed pursued Ram throughout his life and he died by suicide.
If any command goes against love, obeying it will surely harm both parties. We can see that all around.
Jehovah ordered Jews to loot and massacre their neighbors. When Jews angered Jehovah it was the opposite. By this, neither the Jews were reformed nor their neighbors. Rather they became their permanent enemy everywhere still now. So, Romans banished them from their homeland for about to millenniums.
If Christ would not have saved a remnant of them by disobeying Jehovah’s laws by love practice, which established Christianity, Jews would have been scattered and wiped out. Actually Christians loved and reinstated them as Christ was a Jew. So, Christ benefited Jehovah (an unity of some angels) most by disobeying.
Love is God, uniting everything from atom to universe, from soul to association of souls in family, society, Nation, paradises etc. Even devils’ root of existence is his internal love bond. But they hack away that love bond by pride. When that bond is totally destroyed they are also destroyed.
So when we obey spiritual love we really fulfill all types of laws and commands, even those of our worldly lord devil, while disobeying literally. Love-god loves the devil too and we should also while disobeying.

bling
July 30th 2009, 04:45 PM
God is Love. Love is discribed by Christ's words and actions. Love is the reason for everything and is our objective while here on earth.

Bosco
August 17th 2009, 09:19 AM
I reject the notion outright that Yehoshua broke even one command from the Torah! This is very simple folks... if you believe Torah was nailed to the cross (a notion I once believed but now reject), that was at the END of his life. Torah, until that point, would still have been in effect until his actions, if you believe they did, ended Torah. So, Torah would have been the measuring stick in place to determine what was sin and what wasn't sin. Therefore, if he broke Torah in ANY one place, he did not "live and die without sin." That excludes him them from being able to perfect anyone, and we still await the first REAL Messiah... if that were the case.

Peace.
Ken

stephen goswami
August 17th 2009, 09:42 AM
I reject the notion outright that Yehoshua broke even one command from the Torah! This is very simple folks... if you believe Torah was nailed to the cross (a notion I once believed but now reject), that was at the END of his life. Torah, until that point, would still have been in effect until his actions, if you believe they did, ended Torah. So, Torah would have been the measuring stick in place to determine what was sin and what wasn't sin. Therefore, if he broke Torah in ANY one place, he did not "live and die without sin." That excludes him them from being able to perfect anyone, and we still await the first REAL Messiah... if that were the case.

Peace.
Ken

Torah could not rectify Jews. They became hated by everyone and banished from their country again and again. They would have been lost if the Christians rescued them for their respect of Jesus’ blood. Only love can reform anyone. Only love can save. I have experienced that repeatedly in my life. If you respect torah you may turn into suicide killer in the end as torah respecting muslims do. Only love can give peace. Love

Bosco
August 18th 2009, 11:38 AM
Torah could not rectify Jews. They became hated by everyone and banished from their country again and again. They would have been lost if the Christians rescued them for their respect of Jesus’ blood. Only love can reform anyone. Only love can save. I have experienced that repeatedly in my life. If you respect torah you may turn into suicide killer in the end as torah respecting muslims do. Only love can give peace. Love

With due respect....

1. You didn't even address my point. When did Yehoshua break even one of the Torah commands (any of the 613 +/- of them)
2. I do not believe Torah saves, never did, never will. Torah has always been that which defines sin, it tells us what God believes to be righteous acts and what is an unrighteous act.
3. Muslims believe in YHWH's Torah? Never heard that one before. I believe they read from it, and even accept Yehoshua as a "prophet," but their final authority is the Koran, not the Tanach. (OT)

Peace to you.
Ken

stephen goswami
August 26th 2009, 02:39 AM
With due respect....

1. You didn't even address my point. When did Yehoshua break even one of the Torah commands (any of the 613 +/- of them)
2. I do not believe Torah saves, never did, never will. Torah has always been that which defines sin, it tells us what God believes to be righteous acts and what is an unrighteous act.
3. Muslims believe in YHWH's Torah? Never heard that one before. I believe they read from it, and even accept Yehoshua as a "prophet," but their final authority is the Koran, not the Tanach. (OT)

Peace to you.
Ken
Christ broke hundreds of torah laws-Sabbath, washing, forgiving of sins, touching unclean etc. but if you don’t accept, no one can make you accept. Sin is that which goes against universal spiritual love (God). If hadish, Torah, even bible goes against that it is sure to destroy. That I have learnt in my falls, in my 50 years of Christ following struggles. No blind bigotry can save. Out of my love for your souls I am narrating my experience.
If you read Muslim book of law Hadish you shall find that it is based on torah with minor alterations.