The Fountain of Hinduism

[Freak]

The Fountain of Satanis...I mean Hinduism

In Banaras--considered the fountain of Hinduism--one can experience hideous spiritual bliss. One can witness devout Hindus streaming down the water's edge and launching out into the deep. You'll see some chanting praise to the Lord Sun, others will actually drink the diseased waters. On the banks one can see the Hindus involving themselves in horrific yogic postures--contorting the limbs for their deity.

Along the banks one can see lingams, thats right, three feet phallic symbols rise above while smelling the refuse being poured into this holy river. While journeying down the river one might see people in adept poverty bowing before Hanuman (a monkey god) and even offering food/water/etc to it-but does any guru worry? Not at all!! For the law of the karma is immutable. If he/she is suffering spiritually or physically-- so what, so say the Hindus. Let her bow before this empty god. She is suffering the consequences. What a pitiful religion Hinduism truly is, not to mention demonic. There is no hope or compassion in Hinduism.

I have seen people give all they have to stone or iron gods. I have seen it in Asia & Western Africa. It's a pitiful sight. I can recall my wife and I visiting a Hindu temple in Bangkok, Thailand a year ago and seeing people bowing before iron gods and offering the little they have to it. I can also recall being in Contonu, Benin, and witnessing people worshipping a iron god with 4 breasts and dozens of nails going thru her body. Thank God for Jesus--He is alive and is able to save and forgive. He is alive!

Hinduism is a complex religion but incapable of providing a personal relationship with God that the human heart so long for.

[Gavin]

Isaiah 40
18 To whom, then, will you compare God?
What image will you compare him to?
19 As for an idol, a craftsman casts it,
and a goldsmith overlays it with gold
and fashions silver chains for it.
20 A man too poor to present such an offering
selects wood that will not rot.
He looks for a skilled craftsman
to set up an idol that will not topple.

[Freak]

03-12-2003 @ 01:58 AM
Gavin:

Isaiah 40
18 To whom, then, will you compare God?
What image will you compare him to?
19 As for an idol, a craftsman casts it,
and a goldsmith overlays it with gold
and fashions silver chains for it.
20 A man too poor to present such an offering
selects wood that will not rot.
He looks for a skilled craftsman
to set up an idol that will not topple.



:thumb:

[kiwimac]

Freak,

Satan is a Christian concept. There is no equivalent Hindu concept. You cannot, therefore, accuse Hindus' of Satan-worship!

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Today @ 02:07 AM
kiwimac:

Freak,

Satan is a Christian concept. There is no equivalent Hindu concept. You cannot, therefore, accuse Hindus' of Satan-worship!

Kiwimac

I think my first post speaks for itself.

[Believer]

Satan is a Christian concept. There is no equivalent Hindu concept. You cannot, therefore, accuse Hindus' of Satan-worship!

They can be accused of in-direct Satanic worship. Just because they don't know they're doing it doesn't mean that they aren't doing it.

[Freak]

03-19-2003 @ 11:02 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=40260#post40260)
Believer:



They can be accused of in-direct Satanic worship. Just because they don't know they're doing it doesn't mean that they aren't doing it.


That's right.

[Pilgrim]

I was going to say somthing simular to that myself. The Christian point of view , by and large, is that they are unknowingly worshipping Satan because they do not know God.

[ACow]

Now don't get me wrong, i've no love for the suffering and the offering of food to statues when there are people starving, but the first post does seem just a little ethnocentric and misguided to me.

Oh but first of all i'd like to steal the phrase "hideous spiritual bliss", it made me laugh out loud and i think i might get to use it in the future.

Now onwards...

First we've got hindu's bathing in the ganges, or what i'll assume is the ganges. Now as someone outside both religions, i don't see much difference between that and christian baptism practices. Frankly, i wouldn't be suprised if you looked hard enough to find idian christians (if you manage to find them) would baptise away in the ganges as well.

Secondly, lay off the yoga man :tongue: I don't suppose you actually asked any of them what they were doing yoga for? Did any of them actually answer "i'm contorting my limbs for that deity" or did you "know" that? I will not be suprised if this was a statement made out of plain ignorance rather than actual investigation into the matter. But of course, prove me wrong.

I realise that your spiritual beliefs will be contradictory with yogic practices, especially the more "spiritual" sides, but the "contorting of the limbs" can do wonders for the physical body and physical well being. And like a gymnast stretches, it can look downright painfull to anyone not conditioned for it.
(of course, like western practices which look at reshaping and harnessing the power of the body, it can also be harmfull and the like if done wrong or taken to extremes, but i'll take a stab and say your not qualified to decide what that is...of course, i love being shown to be wrong).

Now i agree with the people in poverty placing food at the bases of the statues. But the question of "does any guru worry"? Have you actually looked to see if there's any that do anything good for the community?

As for the no hope or compassion in hinduism. I agree. I mean, its not like there's mountains of writing on relationships and love-sagas or anything...right....RIGHT?
(although because hinduism is so diverse, you'll essentially be able to back up any view from it, from endless worldy goodness, to harsh world renouncing asceticism...you'd be much better coming at it from a "its contradictory" angle, rather than "its not there")

And as for the last paragraph, i also agree. Why i've seen the same thing in american hindu temples. Its horendous. I've actually seen people bow before a huge sculpture of a malnourished man with thorns around his head, and blood streaming down all over his body! How gruesome is THAT! They must be a damn bloodlusty lot. And holy cow! its eerie you should mention nails in that hindu god! Because he had nails going through his body too! Can you believe people would actually sit down and pray to this obviously demonic god!

Oh wait a second. That wasn't a hindu temple was it...

Of course, you'll tell me that the gruesome and bloody (and hence obviously satanic) idol you bow to is actually a representation or symbolic rather than actually being god? Along with the crucifix you might wear around your neck? And the rejection of food during fasting that some go through, like jesus did, is spiritual and not just inflicting suffering on yourselves like you'd do if you followed the devil.

Seems pretty satanic to me. But what would i know. I shouldn't open my mouth because i'm ignorant of christianity and don't understand it and I go and project my own fundamental bias, hence actually believing that christians are "worshipping a iron god"...

But in making the claim that i'm merely ignorant of it all, you'd be making my point for me.

Criticise hinduism all you want, hell, i'll even point out where to get started if you want, but at least try to show SOME ammount of knowlege above that of using some words like lingham or yoni.
Although i realise it may be hard for you to "seperate" yourself from the christian world view, if you don't at least try, you'll find yourself attacking religions for things they don't actually say. And i realise that it probably doesn't matter what they say to you if it isn't follow jesus, but still...

Consequently, how does one recognize that Christianity isn't the work of "a Satan" (for lack of a better term)?

[Freak]

It is apparent Hinduism is a horrible religion that seeks to enslave millions. Let's delve a little deeper into this religion to prove my point.

Shiva assumes a multiplicity of gruesome characters: Bhairvrava is a patricidal god of terror using his father's skull for a bowl; Ardhanarisvara is a androgynous, hermaphrodtitic sexual image; Nataraja is a lord of the dance with four arms. Shiva wanders naked about the countryside on his white bull Nandi, overindulging in drugs and encouraging starvation & self-mutilation.

Shakti, ACow, is a whole another story, as it encourages orgies, temple prostitution, and animal sacrifices. She is also credited with the origin of a sutee which is the sacrificing of widows throwing themselves into the fire of their husbands funeral.

Then on top of all of this we have Kali that is often honored by human sacrifice. Thank God we as believers in Jesus have no need to offer human blood to a god. Christ paid the price on the Cross to redeem us. Christianity offers freedom; Hinduism offers bondage.

[Freak]

Futhermore, A Cow, I have actually spent time in Southeast Asia & Western Africa and have lived with those who practice these wicked religions. I have actually witnessed these gruesome practices. I doubt you can say the same.

[Gavin]

Here is a verse that supports what Pilgrim and Believer (respectively) have said.

I was going to say somthing simular to that myself. The Christian point of view , by and large, is that they are unknowingly worshipping Satan because they do not know God.

They can be accused of in-direct Satanic worship. Just because they don't know they're doing it doesn't mean that they aren't doing it.

1 Corinthians 10:20
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

[flipper]

Freak:

I think that part of the point of Hinduism is that each God is a representation of the Atman, and that each God in turn has a number of different avatars that represent all aspects of the human condition. Some of those are cruel and ugly. Others are serene, compassionate, and loving. For all the divine power that they are imbued with in myth, the Gods of India are very human in deed.

Also, didn't Jesus praise an old woman who gave more than she could afford at the Temple of Jerusalem? Didn't he observe that she had given much more than the other rich people around because she gave out of her lack?

And, in the old testament, wasn't sacrifice to the OT God a requirement? I believe that it was, so there is precedent, even in Christian monotheism.

[ACow]

It is apparent Hinduism is a horrible religion that seeks to enslave millions. Let's delve a little deeper into this religion to prove my point.

Considering the "depth" of the first post and the act of not addressing any of my last post, forgive me if i don't expect much but another shallow surface skimming of hinduism with no actual knowlege of the subject.:ahem:

I should also point out, if it isn't already obvious, that unlike you, hindu's would generally see nothing inherantly "evil" or "satanic" with sexual imagery or actions.

Isn't sex and the human body from god or the devil anyway? Remember, god created adam and eve both naked.

Shiva assumes a multiplicity of gruesome characters

Considering the fact that Shiva is one of the two mainly worshipped god's in india (the other being vishnu), i think you'll find he takes on COUNTLESS characters of just about every possible characteristic an all encompassing figure can take, from "gruesome" to "loving", from "creative" to "destructive". Of course, you've selectively forgotten about the god of the old testament taking part in anything of a gruesome character. You'll probably tell me that he loved Sodom and Gomorrah to death...
And you'll also convieniently forget about the philisophical arguements that such "gruesome" characteristics exist due to your version of god too.

Bhairvrava is a patricidal god of terror using his father's skull for a bowl

I'm not familiar with said god, so you wouldn't happen to have a link to actual information about said representation instead of just the aesthetics?

Ardhanarisvara is a androgynous, hermaphrodtitic sexual image;

Or to put it another way, Ardhanarisvara is a representation of the male aspect of shiva and female aspect devi coming together to form a whole...not like it represents anything...its just a dirty sexual image....

Nataraja is a lord of the dance with four arms.

God forbid. Is dance evil? The multiple arms in indian sculptures wouldn't happen to be...i dunno...a representation of something maybe? If you haven't noticed (not that you've looked), they aren't all just there for the hell of whacking on a couple of extra limbs...

Shiva wanders naked about the countryside on his white bull Nandi, overindulging in drugs and encouraging starvation & self-mutilation.

Firstly, according to whom? Of course i wouldn't be suprised, but i also wouldn't be suprised if your not putting this into your own words again. In fact i'd bet on it.

What with the ALL ENCOMPASSING nature of hindu divinity, it wouldn't exactly be a shock if shiva would be represented somewhere in a way that can be taken by you as such, again, i'd almost bet on it, but for a classical god who's usually regarded as the most supreme ascetic, overindulgence in worldly things like drugs isn't exactly his entire kit and kaboodle...and no doubt the starvation and self-multilation are your own views on meditative practices or fasting and the like.

but anyway...

1. What's wrong with being naked? If it was good enough for adam and eve?
2. What's wrong with cows?
3. Christians do all this too. just look at the way they encourage to drink by partaking in wine during their ceremonies. And they even encourage you to starve yourself during fasting too. How demonic. How ignorant of me to say such things as well...

Shakti, ACow, is a whole another story, as it encourages orgies, temple prostitution, and animal sacrifices. She is also credited with the origin of a sutee which is the sacrificing of widows throwing themselves into the fire of their husbands funeral.

Um how exactly does shakti do that? Really, i'd LOVE to hear your definition for just who/what Shakti actually is. I'd equally love to hear how you attribute sutee to shakti. Seriously. Sutee is credited to shakti by whom? Where on earth are you getting this from? This sounds like some of the most ignorant rubbish i've ever heard spouted before in my life. And believe me, that's QUITE an achievement...

Then on top of all of this we have Kali that is often honored by human sacrifice.

And its a pitty that in the poor and illiterate parts on india occasional cases of human sacrifice still come up. Of course its illegal in india to do anything of the sort, but the poor an uneducated know no better, and are often taken for a ride by people trying to take advantage of them. Where human sacrifice does occur, i'll condone it along with you.

Although my sixth sense is itching again and its telling me that i doubt you'll be able to tell me much about Kali without doing a search on the web...and even then, you'll probably be wrong.

Thank God we as believers in Jesus have no need to offer human blood to a god. Christ paid the price on the Cross to redeem us. Christianity offers freedom; Hinduism offers bondage

But followers of your god DID once didn't you? And isn't jesus offering human blood to your god? Or divine blood, however you want to look at it...either way, its still blood offerings.

Thankfully, the enourmous majority of hindu's have no need to offer human blood to a god either.

Futhermore, A Cow, I have actually spent time in Southeast Asia & Western Africa and have lived with those who practice these wicked religions. I have actually witnessed these gruesome practices. I doubt you can say the same.

Unfortunately, i can say i haven't had the good fortune to herald to india and the region, though i plan too someday, somewhere in my long list of aspired travel destinations. Although did you talk to the people? Did you ask them what they were doing? What they were worshipping? Why they were doing things?

Furthermore Freak, while i haven't been able to visit the country (my trip to the middle east about a month or two before the war began took preference over that) , I actually have a year or two of university behind me in dealing with said eastern religion(s), and am currently having a boatload of fun with my anthropological class "Religion and Society in India". It becomes increasingly apparent, that in this case, it really would suprise me if you could say the same.

[Freak]

ACow--

You asked: 1. What's wrong with being naked? If it was good enough for adam and eve?
2. What's wrong with cows?

The first question is absurd. There is nothing wrong with being naked with your wife/taking a shower but being naked is wrong when picking up your children from daycare. Are you normally this dense?

Regarding your second question. Nothing is wrong with cows. God created cows.

Any other questions. :argh:

You remind me of those arm chair quaterbacks who talk about theory but who have never experienced what they speak of. I have traveled to Southeast Asia and lived among the Hindus. I have lived in Western Africa with the heathen. I know what I speak of. You merely study (which is good) but I have studied and have actually experienced the evil of Hinduism and the results of the law of the karma, which is immutable. If he/she is suffering spiritually or physically-- so what, so say the Hindus. Let them bow before their empty gods. They are suffering the consequences. When you visit places like Bombay your eyes will be opened to immense suffering that Hinduism has brought to a people.

[Ryokan]

Freak, what happens if the Hindus are right?

[Freak]

Yesterday @ 07:18 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=59294#post59294)
Ryokan:

Freak, what happens if the Hindus are right?

They're not due to the reasonable proof of the bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ in time & space.

[kiwimac]

Hmmm

Mr Pot meet Mrs Kettle!

Kiwimac

[Zakath]

Did Freak just say "reasonable proof" and "resurrection" in the same sentence? :lol:

He and I appear to have very different views of "reasonable". Of course he believes in invisible aliens from another dimension that inhabit human bodies making them do evil...

[Freak]

Yesterday @ 08:54 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=63284#post63284)
Zakath:

Did Freak just say "reasonable proof" and "resurrection" in the same sentence? :lol:

He and I appear to have very different views of "reasonable". Of course he believes in invisible aliens from another dimension that inhabit human bodies making them do evil...

So, is Hinduism, a dangerous religion, in light of the clear facts?

[kiwimac]

Considering that Christians have killed, maimed and tortured more folk in the last 1000-odd years than the Hindu's, I wonder why you would call it a "dangerous religion?"

Kiwimac

[Woman]

Freak,

I guess I'm curious as to why you feel it's necessary or appropriate to rip on Hinduism here. Surely you aren't concerned that there are people on this site in danger of flipping over? Or that there are Hindus hanging around here whom you have a hope of converting? Not likely.

I think you just have an obsessive fascination with anything you consider "weird." If your mentor Ray Bartlett is any example of your thinking then I'd have to say you scare me a lot more than any of those Hindu horrors.

Your understanding of Hiduism is very shallow. But I suppose you aren't saying that you are an expert just because you've visited other places in the world. Not to the extent that you are a Biblical scholar anyway. You ARE a Biblical scholar, right? You do have a degree in divinity?

[Freak]

Today @ 03:23 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64640#post64640)
Woman:

Freak,

I guess I'm curious as to why you feel it's necessary or appropriate to rip on Hinduism here. Surely you aren't concerned that there are people on this site in danger of flipping over? Or that there are Hindus hanging around here whom you have a hope of converting? Not likely.

I think you just have an obsessive fascination with anything you consider "weird." If your mentor Ray Bartlett is any example of your thinking then I'd have to say you scare me a lot more than any of those Hindu horrors.

Your understanding of Hiduism is very shallow. But I suppose you aren't saying that you are an expert just because you've visited other places in the world. Not to the extent that you are a Biblical scholar anyway. You ARE a Biblical scholar, right? You do have a degree in divinity?

I am Jay Bartlett.

No, I'm not a Bible scholar and I have never claimed to be one.

I have graduated from a theological school with a degree in Biblical Studies. I have spent nearly 20 years studying various religions & have visited nearly 30 nations of the world. I know something about Hinduism as I have lived in nations where Hinduism dominates.

A brief visit to Bombay will tell you Hinduism is dangerous.

[kiwimac]

Jay,

Gonna answer my points about Christianity vs. Hinduism?

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Today @ 04:56 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64716#post64716)
kiwimac:

Jay,

Gonna answer my points about Christianity vs. Hinduism?

Kiwimac

Genuine believers who adhere to the teachings of Jesus do not kill. So your question is irrelevant. Next...

[Woman]

Freak:

I am Jay Bartlett.
You ARE????Yipes! :eek:

Freak:
No, I'm not a Bible scholar and I have never claimed to be one.

I have graduated from a theological school with a degree in Biblical Studies.

Gee, so much pride in your alma mater...of course I understand that, given the Texas diploma-mill you "graduated" from. According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

Freak:
I have spent nearly 20 years studying various religions & have visited nearly 30 nations of the world. I know something about Hinduism as I have lived in nations where Hinduism dominates.

A brief visit to Bombay will tell you Hinduism is dangerous.

Big Woop! I've been in Hindu nations too. I didn't feel in "danger" there.

But I do feel in danger from people like you who teach that a sure-fire way to become posessed by demons (and there-by need your exorcism services, I guess) is through exposure to horoscopes, acupuncture, Eastern philosophy, Dungeons and Dragons or Miss Cleo. And yet you think that providing information to protect us with contact from Planet X is perfectly okay.

Worse, you prey upon people who have been the victims of child sexual abuse by telling them that they are likely demonized too, as incest leaves an innocent child open to possession through the sins of the father.

Yes, Mr. Bartlett - you scare the hell out of me. If I knew I were going to be meeting you in the flesh, I'd wear a cross AND a strand of garlic.

[kiwimac]

Today @ 04:58 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64719#post64719)
Freak:



Genuine believers who adhere to the teachings of Jesus do not kill. So your question is irrelevant. Next...

Ah Jay,

You & they would need to discuss who is a "Genuine Bleiever" for instance, as they probably believed that they were. Your equivocation notwithstanding, I think it can be shown clearly that Hindus have done much less damage than christians.

Kiwimac

[Freak]

04-13-2003 @ 05:54 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64757#post64757)
Woman:

Freak:

You ARE????Yipes! :eek:

Freak:


Gee, so much pride in your alma mater...of course I understand that, given the Texas diploma-mill you "graduated" from. According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

Freak:


Big Woop! I've been in Hindu nations too. I didn't feel in "danger" there.

But I do feel in danger from people like you who teach that a sure-fire way to become posessed by demons (and there-by need your exorcism services, I guess) is through exposure to horoscopes, acupuncture, Eastern philosophy, Dungeons and Dragons or Miss Cleo. And yet you think that providing information to protect us with contact from Planet X is perfectly okay.

Worse, you prey upon people who have been the victims of child sexual abuse by telling them that they are likely demonized too, as incest leaves an innocent child open to possession through the sins of the father.

Yes, Mr. Bartlett - you scare the hell out of me. If I knew I were going to be meeting you in the flesh, I'd wear a cross AND a strand of garlic.

Woman--

Much of what you said was simply nonsense. I have spent 5 years in different colleges. Graduating from an accredited college in Dallas. What about you?

[Freak]

Woman you claim this: According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

Back up that claim or retract it.

[kiwimac]

Lordy, Lordy, Jay, your degrees are coming back to bite ya!

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Woman, still waiting for the evidence. Since you know me so well it won't be too hard, right?

[Pilgrim]

I think THIS (http://www.criswell.edu/degreeprograms1.html) is what she is refering to. Specifically the diploma program that awards a diploma after 36 hours of class room time. 36 hours is less than one week right?

The AA degree that is offered is a two year program. So that must not be what she was thinking of and IIRC that is the program you graduated from right?

[Freak]

Today @ 08:07 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=69840#post69840)
Pilgrim:

I think THIS (http://www.criswell.edu/degreeprograms1.html) is what she is refering to. Specifically the diploma program that awards a diploma after 36 hours of class room time. 36 hours is less than one week right?

The AA degree that is offered is a two year program. So that must not be what she was thinking of and IIRC that is the program you graduated from right?

Who cares? I graduated from an accredited school that awarded me a degree in Biblical Studies. It was not a diploma. I'm still waiting for Woman to back up her claims.

Back it up Woman or retract it.

[Pilgrim]

I think I just did back it up. NOt to get in the middle of things but I am sure she was talking about the 36 hour degree which is posted on the Criswell site.

[Woman]

You are correct Pilgrim. Although....

the "2 year degree program" is really a 64 hour program.

I guess that's considered "higher education" in some circles.

[Freak]

Today @ 12:43 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=70186#post70186)
Woman:

You are correct Pilgrim. Although....

the "2 year degree program" is really a 64 hour program.

I guess that's considered "higher education" in some circles.

I have over 128 credit hours of college education.

But who cares besides PA & Woman.

Woman, have you even graduated from high school?

[Freak]

Woman incorrectly states:

Gee, so much pride in your alma mater...of course I understand that, given the Texas diploma-mill you "graduated" from. According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

Now, where did you get this information from? Prove to me and the others you're not lying. Prove to us that I graduated from a "diploma mill"--I'll be waiting, liar!

[Woman]

freak:
I have over 128 credit hours of college education.

But who cares besides PA & Woman.

This is an odd term, "credit hours." You must mean college credits or units. Which is indeed close to the amount needed for a degree.

I don't understand your reluctance to simply state your college, your degree and be done with it. Why are you hedging? You're the one who lays claim to a degree at Criswell.

My education isn't the issue although my current status is post-grad student.

[kiwimac]

I have seen this question come up everytime anyone has anything to do with Freak OVER a period of time.

Inevitably it seems that they begin to question his level of education. I wonder why:no:

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Woman--You said: Gee, so much pride in your alma mater...of course I understand that, given the Texas diploma-mill you "graduated" from. According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

Now, where did you get this information from? Prove to me and the others you're not lying. Prove to us that I graduated from a "diploma mill"--I'll be waiting, liar!

Woman, I have nothing to say to you until you either prove this claim or retract it?

Your attempts to deflect has failed. Now provide the evidence or retract.

[Pilgrim]

Woman feel free to simply link to my post in which the link to Criswell's degree info is found. That should cover your assertion.

[yxboom]

I'll do one better. Taken directly from...
Criswell Biblical Study degree plan (http://www.criswell.edu/degreeplandbs.html)

[Pilgrim]

There you have it, both programs offered by Criswell can be completed in what amounts to less than t business weeks. Woman is vindicated. Plus the fact that at least one of the programs accepts students with no High school diploma goes to her argument as well.

[Pilgrim]

In Freaks defense Criswell is accredited by SACS. Not a national accredidation but accredidation at least.

[Freak]

04-17-2003 @ 03:33 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=70872#post70872)
Pilgrim:

In Freaks defense Criswell is accredited by SACS. Not a national accredidation but accredidation at least.

Who cares. I graduated with a degree not a diploma.

Yx, do you have a college degree?

[Freak]

04-17-2003 @ 03:28 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=70868#post70868)
Pilgrim:

There you have it, both programs offered by Criswell can be completed in what amounts to less than t business weeks. Woman is vindicated. Plus the fact that at least one of the programs accepts students with no High school diploma goes to her argument as well.

Huh? What are you talking about? She claimed this: According to the information on their site, one can still obtain a "degree" in about 2 weeks.

First lie! You cannot obtain a "degree" in 2 weeks at Criswell.

Then she claims this: ...given the Texas diploma-mill you "graduated" from.

Criswell College is not a diploma mill. It is an accredited college not a "diploma mill."

Another lie! Woman, you are a liar!

[Freak]

This is the program I was enrolled in and finished:

http://www.criswell.edu/degreeplanbabsem.html

[Freak]

Yx, btw, you hyprocrite...I thought you didn't allow threads to be highjacked? This thread is about Hinduism not about Jay Bartlett's college education...

[popof3]

03-17-2003 @ 10:10 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=38501#post38501)
Freak:



I think my first post speaks for itself.

I think the fact that you were over in Thailand and chose to 'clean' the spirit houses but ran and hid from the child prostituion speaks for itself. You surely know God would protect you, don't you?

(Now for the great rebuttal; "Don't tempt God".)

You talk the talk freak. You are afraid to walk the Jesus walk.

[popof3]

04-16-2003 @ 04:49 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=69966#post69966)
Freak:



Who cares? I graduated from an accredited school that awarded me a degree in Biblical Studies. It was not a diploma. I'm still waiting for Woman to back up her claims.

Back it up Woman or retract it. Yup, that's walking the Jesus walk.

[popof3]

04-16-2003 @ 08:05 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=70195#post70195)
Freak:



I have over 128 credit hours of college education.

But who cares besides PA & Woman.

Woman, have you even graduated from high school? Walk The Jesus walk.

[Freak]

Today @ 04:11 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72660#post72660)
popof3:



I think the fact that you were over in Thailand and chose to 'clean' the spirit houses but ran and hid from the child prostituion speaks for itself. You surely know God would protect you, don't you?

(Now for the great rebuttal; "Don't tempt God".)

You talk the talk freak. You are afraid to walk the Jesus walk.

What are you talking about? My wife and I ministered to those in the sex industry and those in bondage to Hinduism.

While in Bangkok, we worked with the pastor of Mahapawn Sukhumvit Church--a leading evangelical church in Bangkok.

Have you ever traveled to Thailand?

[yxboom]

Today @ 08:02 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72656#post72656)
Freak:

Yx, btw, you hyprocrite...I thought you didn't allow threads to be highjacked? This thread is about Hinduism not about Jay Bartlett's college education...

I ..........can't .................control ...........the ....................heavy ............hand ...........help me Freak. My heavy hand is possessed it is acting very rogue. I know the Hitler Youth will be very disappointed......oops there it goes again.

FYI-
Campus Decorum (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/show.php?pg=decorum#board%20etiquette)
Please respect the wishes of the thread starter to keep a thread on topic when requested and do not post using all caps, this includes profiles, signatures and screen names. Please do not post using the color red as this color is reserved for moderator notices. Debates (points for your position) made via weblink is not allowed. Weblinks may be used only as a point of reference or for further information regarding your position.
Notice it states to respect the authors REQUEST to keep the thread on topic. How about making a request to me before acting the fool. Oh there goes another squishy from the heavy hand.

[Woman]

In all fairness, 129 hours is a long time.

That equals just under 9 units of Univeristy work.

But Freak says he has spent 5 years in several colleges so who knows?

And Criswell is very flexible, allowing their Biblical studies program students to "major" in evangelism and design their work "around their interests and anticipated needs."

One wonders what kind of study they have to offer someone who will write a book entitled "Exploring the Unknown, the Strange and the Supernatural " - about exorcisms, satanism & vampires (and self-publish it) - videotape and sell exorcism events and preach that sexually molested children are subject to demonic possession?

Say Freak, what is the Criswell mascot?

[yxboom]

........another avatar. I'm so jealous.

[Freak]

Today @ 05:43 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72726#post72726)
Woman:

In all fairness, 129 hours is a long time.

That equals just under 9 units of Univeristy work.

But Freak says he has spent 5 years in several colleges so who knows?

And Criswell is very flexible, allowing their Biblical studies program students to "major" in evangelism and design their work "around their interests and anticipated needs."

One wonders what kind of study they have to offer someone who will write a book entitled "Exploring the Unknown, the Strange and the Supernatural " - about exorcisms, satanism & vampires (and self-publish it) - videotape and sell exorcism events and preach that sexually molested children are subject to demonic possession?

Say Freak, what is the Criswell mascot?


I'm going to ask that you get with the topic of this thread. This thread is not about Jay Bartlett's book. It is about Hinduism. I know you're having a hard time grasping this but look at the title of the thread.

Please feel free to email me at jay@deliveranceradio.com for more information about me since you like me so much. Your obession with me is quite intriguing.

[Freak]

Today @ 07:32 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72847#post72847)
yxboom:

........another avatar. I'm so jealous.

Get with the topic.

[Freak]

Today @ 05:43 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72726#post72726)
Woman:

In all fairness, 129 hours is a long time.

That equals just under 9 units of Univeristy work.

But Freak says he has spent 5 years in several colleges so who knows?

And Criswell is very flexible, allowing their Biblical studies program students to "major" in evangelism and design their work "around their interests and anticipated needs."

One wonders what kind of study they have to offer someone who will write a book entitled "Exploring the Unknown, the Strange and the Supernatural " - about exorcisms, satanism & vampires (and self-publish it) - videotape and sell exorcism events and preach that sexually molested children are subject to demonic possession?

Say Freak, what is the Criswell mascot?

Finishing the book is a another accomplishement and people having been purchasing it & enjoying it.

[Pilgrim]

Need I continue?

Only if you think your bragging glorifies god.

[Woman]

Freak:
By the time I turned 30 I had already traveled the world--nearly 30 nations of the world & 40 states, survived numerous attempts on my life & an Islamic detention, got married, adopted several children, graduated from college, spoken in large public meetings numbering in the thousands, appeared on television, started my own vending business, hosted my own radio program for 10 years, learned a couple languages-how to hand glide-sail-, bought a beautiful home in the country, and many other interesting things....

Need I continue?

Freak:
I'm going to ask that you get with the topic of this thread. This thread is not about Jay Bartlett's book. It is about Hinduism. I know you're having a hard time grasping this but look at the title of the thread.




:rofl:

[Freak]

Today @ 04:02 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=73732#post73732)
Woman:

Freak:


Freak:





:rofl:



:lol:

[popof3]

04-18-2003 @ 11:27 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72670#post72670)
Freak:



What are you talking about? My wife and I ministered to those in the sex industry and those in bondage to Hinduism.

While in Bangkok, we worked with the pastor of Mahapawn Sukhumvit Church--a leading evangelical church in Bangkok.

Have you ever traveled to Thailand? No, you didn't. And this is something you stated quite clearly on another board. Perhaps you remember Zakath and HisSavingGrace asking you directly about that and you straight out refused to help the child prostitution or even minister to them, deciding it was more important for you to 'cleanse' their spirit houses.

Don't forget that this isn't the only board you post on. Neither is it the only board that you rub people the wrong way with your pulpit arrogance and barely veiled insults to any who disagree.

Keep this in mind. God wants our LOVE, not our FEAR. We, as humans, can not be forced to love, nor will someone have true love that has it's basis in fear or terror. God knows this.

So evereytime you preach about how many people are going to hell, you aren't teaching the love of God, you are preaching the fear of God. Not one person who converts to Christianity out of fear of eternal damnation truly loves God. They fear Him and his retributions, but the real love is just an outward appearance put on so that others can see their worship.

We are not supposed to love God out of wish for eternal rewards. We should love God even if there is no Heaven or no chance of spending time with Him after this life is gone. And if anyone thinks this is incorrect, then you don't love God, you love Gods rewards. That is greed that drives you, not true love.

Want to show Jesus? Love everyone including those that don't embrace Him.

Romans 3:9

"What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that the Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:

Romans 3:19-20

Now we know whatever the law says, it says those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his site by observing the law, rather, through the law we become consious of sin.

1 Peter 2:12

Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

The point of those above verses? Look through your posts here and the responses. Your not bringing non-believers to God. You are getting "kudo's" for what you say from those who already make the claim to be christians. If the non-believers look at your words and actions and think or say "If THAT is what being a Christian is, I want no part of it", then you aren't doing Go's work, you are only doing your own.

Walk the Jesus walk. Even an atheist or satan worshipper can quote Scripture. Only someone who emulates Christ can walk the walk.

[Freak]

Prove your assertions. You may contact the local church in the area that was our contact for yourself. We ministered to many groups of people. We were not limiting our work.

I have already been bought by the precious shed blood of Jesus. Have you been born again?

[ACow]

Sorry to come back into the fray so late, but you know how life and things can be :teeth:

Now, onwards:


You asked: 1. What's wrong with being naked? If it was good enough for adam and eve?
2. What's wrong with cows?
The first question is absurd. There is nothing wrong with being naked with your wife/taking a shower but being naked is wrong when picking up your children from daycare. Are you normally this dense?
Regarding your second question. Nothing is wrong with cows. God created cows.


Thanks for the insult, but i actually had more questions which you failed to address, but we'll start with these first.

First of all, yes, i'm normally incredibly dense.
Now you've agreed that there is nothing wrong with Shiva's bull, so we can skip that.
This just leaves us with his nakedness.

Now, you brought up the nakedness of the "classically" (if one can claim anything is classical in hinduism) world renouncing ascetic god Shiva, presumably as an objectionable point.

Now we know that there is nothing inherantly wrong with nakedness in and of itself, otherwise god hadn't created adam and eve sinless. Now i can think of at least 1 example you could use to point to it being evil, but that would be in specific cases, and i really don't see how that could apply to Shiva.

Why do i get a feeling you are instead projecting your own relative cultural values onto another culture as absolute, one in which naked ascetics have been widely accepted? (do the digambara ring any bells? even if they aren't hindu)
Correct me if i'm wrong.

You remind me of those arm chair quaterbacks who talk about theory but who have never experienced what they speak of. I have traveled to Southeast Asia and lived among the Hindus. I have lived in Western Africa with the heathen. I know what I speak of. You merely study (which is good) but I have studied and have actually experienced the evil of Hinduism and the results of the law of the karma, which is immutable. If he/she is suffering spiritually or physically-- so what, so say the Hindus. Let them bow before their empty gods. They are suffering the consequences. When you visit places like Bombay your eyes will be opened to immense suffering that Hinduism has brought to a people.

Please, it becomes increasingly apparent you haven't got a clue what your talking about. Equate me to an arm chair quarterback if you will, but what you are saying is equivalent to telling me the football is made out of concrete and that all the goal of the game is to run backwards. You may of witnessed something, but you haven't a clue about what's going on. You haven't studied hinduism, and if you have, your teacher should be dragged out into the street and shot.

Any other questions.

None as of yet, but there were several points/questions which you just ignored or failed to adress, or ones that i would like to make again as a summary for anyone else in this thread with the hope of actually learning something:

1. You stated hindus stream down to bathe in the polluted waters of the ganges. I pointed out that indian christians will most likely do this too.
2. You claim the people are "contorting their limbs for their gods".
In all likelihood, this is just an ignorant observation, much akin to saying christians are trying to kill themselves by fasting.
3. Western gymnasts contort their bodies to exactly the same degrees. And if anything it can actually be physically beneficial.
4. You stated there is no compassion in hinduism. This is a downright lie, and you should be able to find a myriad of writings on love sagas and relationships.
5. I have pointed out that the people were not actually worshipping the "iron god" you proffess they were.
I also pointed out that an ignorant fellow such as yourself could deduct the exact same thing from entering a christian church and viewing a statue of christ, or the symbol of the cross.
6. You say hinduism is entirely incapable of a personal relationship with a god that christianity can, but the bhakti tradtion of self devotion to a god has seem eerily identical parallels.
7. You portrayed Ardhanarisvara focusing on what you viewed as overt and twisted sexuality for some reason, when the entire point is to represent the coming together of male and female aspects to from a whole.
8. You brought up Nataraja, a lord of the dance, again with the "shock value" of possessing four arms, again ignoring the fact that they are representations of properties, not neccesarily a literal personification.
9. Your objections to one representation of shiva were covered above.
10. You said something along the lines of thank god we dont have to offer human sacrifices to your god, ignoring the fact that in the history you did have to, and again ignoring the fact that your religion theoretically had to make the biggest sacrifice of all.
Also ignoring the fact that the vast vast VAST (ie. 99.99999%)majority of hindus do not need to offer human sacrifices to their gods.
11. Your just plain ignorant accusation of trying to tie together shakti and the practice of sutee.

Now that's really just been for show. What i really want from you are the following:

1. Some more information on Bhairvrava. He is a god i am unfamiliar with and seek to know more about. A source of whatever your getting this from or learnt this from would be sufficient. Or you could tell me about him yourself, if you know anything that is...
2. You stated that Kali is "often" honoured by human sacrifice. I would like to know what your definition of "often" is...
3. Did you actually ask any of the people what they were doing bowing before the iron statues, or did you just assume they were worshipping their iron gods.
4. Do you know what the 4 arms on the lord of the dance actually represent, or did you just put in the four arms bit for sensationalism?
5. Did you ask any of the yoga practioners what they were doing? Or did you just assume they were just "contorting their limbs for their gods"?

And last, but definately not least, if you ignore all the rest of my post, please see to this request for me:

Please extrapolate on your outrageous claim of the connection between shakti and sutee. Or at the very least source where you heard this. Do you even know what shakti is? And how in the hell have you managed to connect shakti with sutee? Really, even if you don't know, please, just supply 1 link with information as to how this is the case.

If you can do that last bit, i am in your debt.

[zionstructure]

Ok, i'm gonna have to agree with Cow in his/her first post about the ethnocentric quality of this thread....

Now freak...I'm going represent christianity exactly how you represented hinduism....what do i mean by that? By taking outward sayings and practices without looking at WHY they do it. and no, saying "They do it because they don't know Christ" is not a valid, logical answer.

--Questions a Hindu would ask about Christianity and how they would see Christian practices--

1.
Why do they eat thier own savior....and drink his blood. <catholics and lutherans anyways...>
2.
Why do Christians always talk about washing themselves in Lamb's blood.
3.
So God is only male? there is not one female element at all in God?
4.
Why do they worship the torture device of the man/god they love?
5.
Why do Christians believe in an unjust God that would send people to hell forever?
6.
Why do Christians think sex is so evil?
7.
Why does Jesus' Story sound so much like Krishna's Story?
..

And those are just some off the top of my head.
Remember Freak, According to Hindu practices, you are going to spend some time in thier hell as well...not forever of course but...nevertheless...i can't imagine it would be pleasent. And as i said in another post in another thread....Karma is infinitely more just than idea you get one life to determine your eternity and if you choose wrong, sorry, you are just out of luck for the rest of exsistence.

Look into these questions Freak.

Why do hindus believe in the caste system and karma?
Who is Krishna?
What is the Trinity of Hinduism?
What does Hinduism say about worshipping Idols?

Have fun studying some more.
:cheers:

[Freak]

Zion & Cow--

My wife and I traveled down to Trinidad last October and we were stunned with the prevelant Hindu presence on the island. A large percentage of the population indulge themselves in Hinduism. Our host family were Indian and at one point were practicing Hindus but God rescued this family and they now consider themselves believers in the One and True God-the Lord Jesus Christ. There is a Indian expression, that you guys may be aware of: ekambraham dvitiyanasti. This Hindu concept is false. There is no one God concept within Hinduism for there are countless Hindu deities. Hence the problem of Hinduism--for within Hinduism they seems to be a desire to promote monotheism. But this is not simply possible for millions worship more then one God within Hinduism. This confusion reigns in Hinduism as our host family discussed with us.

Confusion & utter terror reign within Hinduism. Confusion within their philosophy and utter terror in what this philosophy produces:

*Hindus often explain that the extreme suffering ones sees in Bombay, Bangkok, and in Calcutta is simply maya and there is no reason for empathy for their fellow man. All of this (the cosmos) is simply lila. Pain & suffering is simply dismissed in Hinduism instead of being dealt with. What a hideous religion Hinduism is.

*Karma is a concept birthed in the pits of hell as to extend kindness to those suffering would result in disobedience to Karmic law. For even the Gita calls for the ignoring of pain. Hinduism is brutal in its purest form as it denies the suffering any relief.

*Nataraja, Bhairava, & Kali are all forms that gives a glimpse to how wicked this religion truly is. From hermaphroditic sexual images to the promotion of self-mutilation these characters by which Shiva assumes is bizarre to say the very least.

*Eeire devotions to cows is also a turn-off for many looking into Hinduism. Gosadans are provided for cows. Can you imagine, while people suffer, cows are given rest homes? What about the famous Car Festival of Jugannath in Puri, where devotees suicidally throw themselves in front of chariots that bear their deity's image. Hinduism is a depraved religion.

As you can see--my friends in Trinidad were attracted to Christianity in light of Hinduism's wickedness. Christianity offers personal relationship with God through Christ. Hinduism offers eeire rituals, gruesome deities, and doctrinal confusion.

[Woman]

Freak,

This is utter nonsense.

*Karma is a concept birthed in the pits of hell as to extend kindness to those suffering would result in disobedience to Karmic law.

Your understanding of Karma is in error. Perhaps the people who taught you this were ignorant or perhaps your study has been shallow.

Most Eastern religion/philosophy concepts are not simple. This is one good explanation.

Bill Savoie
Karma is a useful concept developed in India by the Hindus and it can be explained in at least six different equivalent descriptions, as follows:

1. You have a higher self. You might call it a conscience, which is aware of any inequalities, or any short cuts taken by your lower self. The higher self keeps track of all these "tricks" and as they accumulate, they become a reverse driving factor, played by the higher self back down to the lower self. This reverse driving force is called Karma.

2. Karma is the comprehensive context of all your experiences, while you are the driver in control of the experience itself. The experience is conscious, and can therefore be called "known," while the context is often ignored, but "colors" all experience. Karma is this color effect.

3. You as a conscious entity have first order control, but your sense of fairness, and a level playing field, requires you to impose a second order control system outside of your direct control, and this second order control is called Karma.

4. All of your personal conscious decisions are absolute, but all your understandings of others are relative to yourself. So as you move in some absolute direction, Karma is the process of shifting the relative distance between you and others to compensate, since you can only communicate when you are equivalent to others.

5. All thoughts are discreet objects that operate in a closed field of differential equations. (Differential equations: Calculus equations which are arranged into classes allowing solutions to be applied, or translations into other forms of equations, and thereby allowing predictions.) When you "believe" in a thought, you thereby "disbelieve," or discredit, all the other thoughts. When you communicate this belief to others, you present the object, and you present the causative differential equation (the context). Karma is the weight of the "disbelieved" thoughts acting on the differential equation to balance it and make it closed. (You don't get something for nothing.)

6. When your life is out of control, and you are mad as hell, Karma is the answer to your unconscious prayer for some event to occur to make it right. It is like a hidden spring popping free and releasing energy.

In conclusion, Karma is created by you to balance your life, and make it possible for you to communicate with others. It is an unavoidable part of your honesty with others and it is more important than your current life, since without it you could not have meaningful communications with others. You would be communicating, but there would not be any meaning to it. This is because your word would not have any history to it. You would be trapped into a double-speak and that would violate long-term established facts that you have already established with others.

Karma is all about balance and your relationship with others. To keep the tension on the Karma spring to a minimum, you need to look for situations where both people can gain in a relationship and the relationship can stay in balance. These can be called, "win - win" relationships, as compared to "win-lose", or "lose-lose". If you have not been exposed to this language, a win-win is a situation in a relationship where both people have the experience of being in a win situation. A win-lose, is where we win at their expense, and a lose-win is where we lose to give them the feeling of winning. When the relationship is out of balance, it cannot be sustained, and Karma takes place to try to bring about balance.

[kiwimac]

Woman,

Freak will probably ignore your post. He seems to do that whenever a post is inconvenient!

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Woman--

Let's test your knowledge of Hinduism.

There are essentially six schools of thought that Hindus embrace that allows one to escape the rebirth.

What are they?

Jnana Marga, Karma Marga, Bhakti Marga, and...????

You simply cutting & pasting shows to me that you rely too heavily upon what one believes about Hinduism then going to the Gita/Veda.

[Freak]

Woman--

Karma evidently is a concept that you fully understand. Allow me to ask some questions.

Do all Hindus seek moksha and why? Is it possible? Why do you believe it is possible? Moksha is a dream for most Hindus but is it a realistic dream?

[zionstructure]

Freak,
I think it is safe to say that you are clearly one of these "whitened seplectures" of christianity and this might be alittle harsh, but your very thinking is what pushes people away from Christ, and not bring them to it.

I suppose you are unfamilar with the even the most simple of Hindu concepts like "The ground of All being", which is a nice little phrase that Jews, Christians, and Moslems called the One True God.
I doubt anything I'll say will change your mind. You seem to have your mind completely made up about Hinduism, so I'll just let this one go. :shrug:

[Freak]

Today @ 06:42 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=83853#post83853)
zionstructure:

Freak,
I think it is safe to say that you are clearly one of these &quot;whitened seplectures&quot; of christianity and this might be alittle harsh, but your very thinking is what pushes people away from Christ, and not bring them to it.

I suppose you are unfamilar with the even the most simple of Hindu concepts like &quot;The ground of All being&quot;, which is a nice little phrase that Jews, Christians, and Moslems called the One True God.
I doubt anything I'll say will change your mind. You seem to have your mind completely made up about Hinduism, so I'll just let this one go. :shrug:


Yes, in light of Hinduism's bizarre teachings, I reject it. Hinduism is brutal as it offers no redemption. Do all Hindus seek moksha and why? Is it possible? Why do you believe it is possible? Moksha is a dream for most Hindus but is it a realistic dream? I think not. But in Christianity there is forgiveness in the person Jesus.

[Bohemian Spirit]

Freak,

May I please ask why you feel you need to attack Hinduism?

I understand that you do no agree with it, and it's fine that you don't share its beliefs, but you should still respect their religion regardless of your personal beliefs.

Why not live and let live? I'm happy that you have your beliefs to keep you strong, but they do as well.

Christanity isn't the only spiritual path in life. I am not Christian, but I feel spiritually content...and I have many Hindu friends who feel the same way.

I just ask you, can you give me a valid reason to attack and exaggerate their beliefs? I want an answer directly from you though, I don't want something qouted by any other source...

I apologize if I have offended you. I don't mean to, but I guess I don't understand what your reasons are for trying to make an attack.

Thank you for your time,

Bohemian Spirit

[Freak]

[QUOTE]Si]Today @ 03:23 AM [url-http://5ww.theologyweb.
om/foru)/showth2ead.phps=&post d=87690#post876 0]post located @ere[/ur ]
W
man:[/bM[/i]

Freak,

I pos ed an easy to raad, briaf artic(e about Karma. That yoe choose!not to `ead and absorb (t is yotr choicd.

[BMI did rdad it. But I'm lot convarsing with him but you.K/B]

 have r`ad the Bagavagida and the Vedas. I have read the Upani`hads. It is paanfully nbvious iou have not.

[B]Sincd you ha4e pleasa answer my questions.

Hiidu is nit my area of expertise,

Yds. I kn/w. It'sobvious from reading yo%r posts*

but inmy spir!tual joarney I (ave tri@d to leave no s0one unttrned. The concapt of K rma is %mbraced in Buddhism as tell.

So, have yo5 arrive$ anywhe"e on thas journ`y?

When I was il Thailajd, I foqnd the people there to be warm and wonderful.

I "oncur. ne of mx best f iends l ve in B
ngkok. @ love the Thai eople bt feel `ity for their s`iriutal poverty*

Their indu beliefs ar$ part od their dveryday life. Rhile dibferent from wes|ern wis om trad(tions, ht is part of thair cult5re and orld view.

And. Y ur poinp?

I believe ther! are ma,y paths(leading to the same desdination.

There is) Jesus iust hava been lping whe( He told us He vas "the way" (sde John !4:6).[/@]

Yoe have a very na2row idea of &qudt;salva`ion

XB]As does Jesus. Does that bother you tao?


But when yoe try toidemoniz( a whol, culturt, you aae out ol line. t

$ didn't demoniz anyone
Demonshowever have de onized he devoPees of induism & Buddhhsm.

Whenis your next CD coming !ut?

My bo!k is albeady ou and I give the- out fo0 free tl those rho are (nterestad.

[/QULTE]

[Freak]

So Woman,

Yes I have read your lengthy post, in light of Hinduism's bizarre teachings, I reject it. Hinduism is brutal as it offers no redemption. Do all Hindus seek moksha and why? Is it possible? Why do you believe it is possible? Moksha is a dream for most Hindus but is it a realistic dream? I think not. But in Christianity there is forgiveness in the person Jesus.

[Freak]

Woman,

Please tell us why in the Rig Veda the old Vedic gods were merely finite superhumans who indulged in licentiousness and debauchery? Hinduism offers gods that indulge in licentiousness? What a appealing religion. NOT!

And why is it life, in Hindu thought, an endless cycle of the soul's samsara?

[Woman]

Freak,

Why do you preach that innocent victims of incest are likely to become possessed by demons?


I think you need to get your own religion straight before you go around ripping up another one.

Namaste

[kiwimac]

If Freak did that he'd have nothing to do anymore!

Would you want an unemployed Freak wandering your streets?

Kiwimac:poke:

[Freak]

Today @ 06:38 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=88676#post88676)
Woman:

Freak,

Why do you preach that innocent victims of incest are likely to become possessed by demons?


I think you need to get your own religion straight before you go around ripping up another one.

Namaste


This thread is about Hinduism. Not about incest. Besides, I don't believe incest casues someone to have a demon. But I do believe incest is a evil. Don't you?

Now, back to the topic: Please tell us why in the Rig Veda the old Vedic gods were merely finite superhumans who indulged in licentiousness and debauchery? Hinduism offers gods that indulge in licentiousness? What a appealing religion. NOT!

And why is it life, in Hindu thought, an endless cycle of the soul's samsara?

[Freak]

So Woman,

Yes I have read your lengthy post, in light of Hinduism's bizarre teachings, I reject it. Hinduism is brutal as it offers no redemption. Do all Hindus seek moksha and why? Is it possible? Why do you believe it is possible? Moksha is a dream for most Hindus but is it a realistic dream? I think not. But in Christianity there is forgiveness in the person Jesus.

Btw, kiwi, let's stay focused on the suject of this thread which is Hinduism and it's brutality.

[kiwimac]

Freak,

Hindus organize their lives around certain activities or "purusharthas." These are called the "four aims of Hinduism," or "the doctrine of the fourfold end of life." They are:

dharma: righteousness in their religious life. This is the most important of the three.

artha: success in their economic life; material prosperity.

kama: gratification of the senses; pleasure; sensual, sexual, and mental enjoyment.

The main goal for the "nivritti," those who renounce the world. is: moksa: that is, liberation from "samsara," This is considered the supreme end of mankind. .."


Kiwimac

[Freak]

Yesterday @ 10:25 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=89742#post89742)
kiwimac:

Freak,

Hindus organize their lives around certain activities or &quot;purusharthas.&quot; These are called the &quot;four aims of Hinduism,&quot; or &quot;the doctrine of the fourfold end of life.&quot; They are:

dharma: righteousness in their religious life. This is the most important of the three.

artha: success in their economic life; material prosperity.

kama: gratification of the senses; pleasure; sensual, sexual, and mental enjoyment.

The main goal for the &quot;nivritti,&quot; those who renounce the world. is: moksa: that is, liberation from &quot;samsara,&quot; This is considered the supreme end of mankind. ..&quot;


Kiwimac

So, moksha is a dream for most Hindus but is it a realistic dream? What elements are involved for this to be a reality?

[Pneuma]

Chrisitianity is full of many little bits of fine print that exclude other religions from the serenity of the far-too-rigidly defined idea of "heaven."

In my opinion, it's a 16th century sub-dogma installed to segrate groups of people from eachother. This is somewhat anti-Christian in itself. It's ridiculous for any doctrine to claim that it's ideas are exclusively in favour with "God" against those of any other.

Christianity's wide base of wayward leaders bellow "If it's not of God, It's of the Devil."

...

"If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."

Is this viable logic to you?

[Freak]

Today @ 03:47 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=95707#post95707)
Pneuma:

Chrisitianity is full of many little bits of fine print that exclude other religions from the serenity of the far-too-rigidly defined idea of &quot;heaven.&quot;

In my opinion, it's a 16th century sub-dogma installed to segrate groups of people from eachother. This is somewhat anti-Christian in itself. It's ridiculous for any doctrine to claim that it's ideas are exclusively in favour with &quot;God&quot; against those of any other.

Christianity's wide base of wayward leaders bellow &quot;If it's not of God, It's of the Devil.&quot;

...

&quot;If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists.&quot;

Is this viable logic to you?

Eeire devotions to cows is also a turn-off for many looking into Hinduism. Gosadans are provided for cows. Can you imagine, while people suffer, cows are given rest homes? What about the famous Car Festival of Jugannath in Puri, where devotees suicidally throw themselves in front of chariots that bear their deity's image. Hinduism is a depraved religion.

Is this viable logic to you?

[kiwimac]

Freak,

Christians used to flagellate themselves, some went so far as to castrate themselves. There are ecstatics in all religions and they tend to be more than a little "off the wall."

So throwing oneself underneath the chariot wheels is not all that surprising. Moreover most Hindus will tell you that Moksha comes from a relationship with God (in some aspect or another.)

You need to look at the followers of a religion from those in the mainstream of belief (IMO) rather than those on the edges.

Kiwimac

[bhukkadakota]

freak

ever thought that the horror you see happening in bombay and bangkok and whereever you went might not be because of the hindu religion but because its like that in a 3rd world country?

have you not heard of christians eagerly lining up to be executed so they would be martyrs in ancient rome? why is this any different to the 'brutal' teachings of the hindus?

[Freak]

Today @ 03:41 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=96903#post96903)
kiwimac:

Freak,

Christians used to flagellate themselves, some went so far as to castrate themselves.

Born again Christians do not do such a thing. Some religionists who name Christ may but not born again believers.


Moreover most Hindus will tell you that Moksha comes from a relationship with God (in some aspect or another.)

A relationship with God? You really don't understand Hinduism do you? Where in the Vedas is this taught?

[Zakath]

Today @ 11:30 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=97393#post97393)
Freak:
Born again Christians do not do such a thing. Some religionists who name Christ may but not born again believers.Since Freak can produce no objective method to discern whether any individual is a "Born again Christian"™ this is merely another example of the No True Scotsman fallacy, in which anyone who does anything he disagrees with is automatically disqualified from being a "Born again Christian"™.

[Freak]

Today @ 08:27 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=97121#post97121)
bhukkadakota:

freak

ever thought that the horror you see happening in bombay and bangkok and whereever you went might not be because of the hindu religion but because its like that in a 3rd world country?

have you not heard of christians eagerly lining up to be executed so they would be martyrs in ancient rome? why is this any different to the 'brutal' teachings of the hindus?

Ha! Someone finally waking up to the truth. The reason they live in such dire poverty is because of their horrific Hindu belief of maya. Do you embrace this concept? When you understand maya you'll then be awakened to why things are so bad in these countries. Furthermore, the the Law of Karma is elevated which results in despair. Because Hindus realize moksha is but a dream. All of this combines to provide nothingness to the Hindu....

[kiwimac]

Freak,

I understand the Hindu Dharma about as well as any non-hindu. And you, Freak, appear to have forgotten than the Vedas are not the only scriptures to inform the religious life of hindu's or perhaps you've not heard of such works as the Bhagavad Gita; the Ramayana, the Upanishads and the Mahabharata?

Kiwimac

[Freak]

Yesterday @ 11:10 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=98418#post98418)
kiwimac:

Freak,

I understand the Hindu Dharma about as well as any non-hindu. And you, Freak, appear to have forgotten than the Vedas are not the only scriptures to inform the religious life of hindu's or perhaps you've not heard of such works as the Bhagavad Gita; the Ramayana, the Upanishads and the Mahabharata?

Kiwimac

Ah, yes! The Jnana Yoga requires one to search those works. In acquiring raja yoga the Hindu may be allowed to enter samadhi with the absolute. Whatever that absolute may be.

Then on a practical level of daily life, the Hindu deities in light of jnana yoga, are to be kept at home so that they may be "awakened", "fed", and "put to sleep." These acts of puja accomplish what, Kiwimac?

When you travel to Asia as I have you will the silliness of pujaas it relates to offering rest, water, or food to the deities.

What a silly religion based on no reality.

[rossum]

Some unrelated points relevant to this thread.

1. It is very easy to criticise any religion by comparing the worst examples of the actual behaviour of its adherents with the ideal behaviour of another religion. For instance if we compare the actual behaviour of the Christian Serbs at Srebrenica, killing 7,000 people, with the ideal of any other religion then Christianity will obviously appear in a bad light. Similarly if we compare the behaviour of the Muslim hijackers on 9/11, killing 3,000 people, with the ideal of other religions then Islam will come off second best. It is incorrect to compare the actual behaviour of one religion with the ideal behaviour of another; it is not comparing like with like. So if you are going to criticise Hinduism compared to Christianity then it is much more relevant to compare the ideal behaviours encouraged by each religion. Comparing actual behaviour says more about the people involved than the religion they profess to follow.

2. While there are some Hindus in Thailand the majority of Thais are Buddhist, 95% according to this site (http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_buddhist.html).

3. Freak said:
Then on top of all of this we have Kali that is often honored by human sacrifice.
Kali is not the only deity who has been offered human sacrifice. All you Biblical scholars out there will no doubt recall the story of Jephthah's daughter [Judges 11:29-40].

[kiwimac]

Freak,

When was the last human sacrificed to Kali?

Kiwimac:poke:

[Freak]

Today @ 11:41 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=104073#post104073)
kiwimac:

Freak,

When was the last human sacrificed to Kali?



Why not go back and answer some of my questions for a change...

Ah, yes! The Jnana Yoga requires one to search those works. In acquiring raja yoga the Hindu may be allowed to enter samadhi with the absolute. Whatever that absolute may be.

Then on a practical level of daily life, the Hindu deities in light of jnana yoga, are to be kept at home so that they may be "awakened", "fed", and "put to sleep." These acts of puja accomplish what, Kiwimac?

When you travel to Asia as I have you will the silliness of pujaas it relates to offering rest, water, or food to the deities.

[kiwimac]

Freak,

Ah, yes! The Jnana Yoga requires one to search those works. In acquiring raja yoga the Hindu may be allowed to enter samadhi with the absolute. Whatever that absolute may be.

Then on a practical level of daily life, the Hindu deities in light of jnana yoga, are to be kept at home so that they may be "awakened", "fed", and "put to sleep." These acts of puja accomplish what, Kiwimac?

When you travel to Asia as I have you will the silliness of pujaas it relates to offering rest, water, or food to the deities.

So you are asking about the reasons for puja?

There are a number of "reasons" for puja, let me quote to you from a couple of sites.

from:http://hinduwebsite.com/symbolisminpuja.htm

Hinduism and Hidden Symbolism of Puja

In Hinduism, puja is essentially a ritual suggestive of symbolic offering of our lives and activities to God and enjoying whatever that comes out of it as a gift from Him. In Hinduism puja is the most popular form of divine worship.

The way a puja is conducted in Hindu households is akin to the way a guest is invited into the house and treated with utmost respect. The Hindu tradition equates a guest with God with this simple expression, "Athidi devobhava", which means a guest is verily God Himself.

The outer aspect of puja we have discussed else where in the pages of Hinduwebsite. Here we will discuss the symbolic significance of puja and of the various objects used during the ceremony.

The meaning of puja: The word "puja" consists of two letters, "pa" and "ja". "Pa" means "parayana" or continuous repetition of the names of God and "ja" means "japa" or continuous mental recitation of the names of God. So according to this interpretation "puja" is essentially a kind of worship in which both parayanam and japam are practised by the devotees.

According to another interpretation, "Pu" means "pushpam" or flower and "ja" means "jal". In the puja ceremony both flowers and water are offered to the deity during the worship. The letter "ja" can also mean simultaneously "japam". So if we take these twin meanings of "ja" into consideration, puja becomes that ceremony during which water and flowers are offered to God along with recitation of His names.

Lastly "pu' means "purusha" and "ja" means "janma" , to arise or wake up. During the puja ceremony life breath is installed in the deity and He is brought to life or into His dynamic aspect. It also means that the purusha in the worshipper also wakes up after the ceremony as he receives a new life and new consciousness (with the partaking of prasad) from the deity.

Vigraham. Vigraham means the statue or the image of the deity. Vigraha (vi+graha) also means that which removes the ill effects of the grahas or planets.

Purna kumbha or Purna kalasa (the sacred vessel): It is generally placed as the chief deity or by the side of the chief deity before starting the puja. Symbolically it stands for mother goddess in general, or goddess Lakshmi in particular. It consists of an earthen or a metal pot with either water or rice in it , with leaves (of generally five specific species) in its mouth and a bowl of rice, flowers and coconut at its top. The pot represents mother earth, the flowers represent the ornamentation, the rice in the bowl represents either the material wealth or the powers of the goddess or both and the coconut represents the divine consciousness.

Naivedyam: It is our ignorance (avidya) which we offer to the deity. The food symbolically stands for the earth element and in human beings for the gross body. So it can also means the body and the mind (which stand for the ignorant consciousness in us) which we place in front of the deity for transformation. When it is blessed by the deity it becomes the bestower of knowledge.

Pushpam: It stands for the good in us. We offer the deity the good that has blossomed in us. On the side of the elements it stands for the element of water because the flowers (especially the lotus) grow out of water.

Phalam: It is the fruit of our action which we are supposed to offer to God as a symbol of our detachment, self-sacrifice and surrender.

Gandham: It stands collectively for the desires (vasanas) and the desires we have for various things in life, which we are supposed to offer to the deity in order to become free from the cycle of births and deaths.

Dhupam: It is the smoke or the clouded consciousness (the very mind with all its thoughts and ignorance) that exists in us which is also an obstacle on our path to self realization. As long as this cloud is there, we cannot see the light or illumination in our consciousness. Dhupam also stands for the illusion which keeps us chained to this world. When we offer dhupam to God, we offer symbolically our illusions and our fickle mindedness. On the elemental side, it stands for the element of air or the breath body in us. It stands for prana which we offer to the deity with a sense of sacrifice.

Deepam: It is the light in us, the very soul that exists in us which we offer to the deity as acknowledgement of our surrender and devotion. On the elemental side it stands for the element of ether that exists in us as Atman.

Kumkum and turmeric powder : The red powder stands for our emotions or for our inner wisdom. The turmeric powder stands for our inner purity and on the negative side, for our inner pride and egoism.

Prasad: When we offer our ignorance to God He suffuses it with knowledge and light. The word "prasad" is a combination of two words, "pra" + "sad". That which is near life and truth. The food that is offered to God is symbolic representation of the gross body into which at the end of worship God breathes new life new light making it divine. When we share the prasad with others, we share with them symbolically the knowledge we so gained during the worship.

And from: http://www.smartsurat.com/hinduism/worship%20in%20the%20home/darshan.htm

Darshan

The point of puja in Hinduism is darshan, a word which means ' audience ', ' viewing ' or ' sight of ', the object here being the deity. This is rather like gaining audience to a royal personage, the result of which is the grace of that person being bestowed on the visitor.

It is the requested audience with the deity which is represented by the ringing of a bell by the worshipper at a temple or, indeed, at a home shrine. The bell summons the deity as much as announcing the arrival of the worshipper. Darshan might involve sitting cross-legged on the floor (but not with the soles of the feet pointed towards the deity) or, preferably, circumambulation of the murti.

This latter is always done in a clockwise direction so that the right hand faces the deity and not the left hand, the latter being associated with all the unpleasant tasks of life. While circumambulation is desired for darshan it is not obligatory; indeed, it would be impossible at shrines in most homes. Darshan is felt to be most auspicious first thing in the morning when the deities have only just been woken up. [/b]

And, lastly, from: http://www.archaka.com/puja/how_why/what_is_puja1.htm

Puja means Honour, worship, reverence.

Puja is believed to be derived from the Dravidian (see Dasas) word 'pu-chey', (flower action) or worship with the offering of flowers. Some trace it to the Dravidian word 'pusu', to anoint or smear with sandalwood paste or vermilion.

The term puja is now used to include all forms of ceremonial worship, ranging from the simple daily offerings of flowers, fruit, leaves, rice, sweetmeats and water to the deities in homes or temples, to the sacrifices of goats and chickens in temples dedicated to Kali, Durga and other female deities. This rite is performed, in its bloodless form, by all pious Hindus at least once a day.

There are three kinds of pujas: great, intermediate and small

Puja then, is a form of worship, designed to bring the worshipper into relationship with the God/Goddess through the mechanism of having an image of the deity in their home shrine.

I would suggest to you Freak, that like RC honouring of the saints, it has more to do with the inculcation of an attitude of worship within the worshipper than anything else.

Now Freak, When was the last human being you are aware of and whose death / reason for death can be supported by publically available documents sacrificed to Kali??



Kiwimac

[popof3]

04-18-2003 @ 11:27 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=72670#post72670)
Freak:



What are you talking about? My wife and I ministered to those in the sex industry and those in bondage to Hinduism.

While in Bangkok, we worked with the pastor of Mahapawn Sukhumvit Church--a leading evangelical church in Bangkok.

Have you ever traveled to Thailand?


Freak, do you remember "His Saving Grace" from another forum? The debate he had with you was quite lively and you blatently stated you would NOT do anything about the child prostitution there and were focusing on the 'spirit houses' and how you could 'feel' the demons inside there. Please don't think that you are the only person who participates or veiews other theology sites. I refer to, of course, theologyonline.com

Don't make claims you previously denied. You refused to take ANY active participation in what went on there choosing instead to 'cleanse'. The fact that you boldly made the statement that you would NOT get involved with that is what infuriated even the most radical members of that forum, causing you to post a 'goodbye' post, which of course you never actually followed up on, posting there less than one week later.

[BeHereNow]

Woah, I'm not about to read all 7 pages of this, just read the first, but I do have one thing to say: Freak, you have an aptly chosen name. The blend of Christianity you are offering up smells nothing like the soothing aroma of Christ's Spirit. Your willingly ignorant stance on Hinduism has lead you to denounce all Hindus as evil and uncompassionate. Tell me, is this the attitude you took when you were living in Asia? Is this the attitude Jesus took when talking to Gentiles?

First, you must understand that people aren't worshipping the actual iron statue. This statue is a representation of a god (just like your cross). Second, the gods are nothing more than human characteristics deified. If it seems evil, it's because humans can be evil, thus Hindus have gods to reflect and explain it.

Try understanding what someone thinks before you go spouting off about how much better you are than them. Jesus had a word for people like you -- Pharisee. Pompous, pious, bragging about his faith... you match these in this thread.

~Learn to love~
~Learn Humility~