So what has everyone's experiences with the LDSers been?

[Jin-Roh]

I ask because I have a few Mormons in my classes and am more than civil with all of them.

I also know enough, though I wouldn't say that I've devoloped a real big argument, to refute Mormonism. I am familiar with the doublespeak and plausible deniablities that many mormons seem to fall back on when challenged.

I however do not have any practical experience with actually sharing this infomation with Mormons.

you reading this John? :wink:

Help?

[Xmansmommy]

What exactly are you looking for Jin?

[Trout]

Jin,

First things first,
A productive dialogue begins with a careful definition of terms.

Don't assume that they, as LDS people, believe what you think they should.

Ask some questions first, they'll be very happy to share their beliefs with you.

[Leroy]

I think it was Ron Huggins, who said, "Defining a mormon's doctrine is like trying to nail jello to the wall"

Find out what doctrines they believe first and go forward with that. I've ran into quite a few mormons that just don't believe all that their old prophets have supposedly said.

“That was then this is now” is a common response, this type of theology, an evolution of theological doctrine, lets them bail out of the gold growing on the moon by 6’ Quakers stuff.

Also I’ve noticed that they fall back onto their “testimony” as some magical mystical way of somehow hypnotizing you into backing off, if they have found themselves in a logical corner. Interrupt their testimony as soon as you can, don’t let them finish. I have found they become very closed minded after its presentation, thinking that they have done their duty and the Holy Ghost must fill you with a burning in your bosom. (They’re big on the burning bosom thing)

I have a lot of mormon friends and family, and I’ve found that you can alienate them very easily, they need to hear the truth, but with wise tactics, if you want a continued relationship with them.

Leroy

[Jin-Roh]

What exactly are you looking for Jin?

Well, you're a former Mormon right?
What were your positive experiences with Christians?

[Xmansmommy]

Yup, an ex Mormon here. I will share my thoughts with you Jin, but it will have to wait a bit. Thanks for your patience. :smile:

[Hamburglar]

A pair of LDS missionaries have been stopping by my house every couple weeks since November. I invite them in and we'll chat for an hour or so. They are very nice guys and I've tried to keep things loose with them. Even though they are mistaken, I can respect the difficulty/challenge of taking two years off for door-to-door missions.

The first couple visits, they explained some basics of mormon beliefs and I've tried to learn as much as I could about it (I'm sure they won't be the last I'll come across). I read a few chapters in the Book of Mormon. It reads very much like 1/2 Samuel or Judges from the Bible. Christ's time on earth isn't described. And the few chapters supposedly written after Christ still reads like Old Testament prophecy. Definitely nothing like Paul's epistles in there. I find the whole mormon story of the Jewish tribes in America to be strange and unsupported by history/archaeology, but I've heard that arguing these points is not a good approach, as it is not an impediment to their faith.

These guys have definitely appreciated my taking time to read directly from the mormon sources. I have read some of the Christian apologetic literature (shedding light on LDS inconsistencies, false prophecies, etc.), but I've held this stuff back. They don't seem open to investigating their faith as most Christians are.

The missionaries have a lot of individual Bible verses committed to memory, and they draw upon them all the time. However, they don't have contextual understanding and tend to misuse the verses. If I am familiar with the verse that is used, I will immediately try to correct them. A prime example is Phillipians 2:12.

I've heard professional evangelists claim that the best way to reach the mormon is to focus on the mormon works-based salvation. They claim that Christ first saves us by faith and baptism, but then our ultimate salvation (their definition of salvation is fuzzy) depends upon repentance and works. Mormons tend to be extremely diciplined and rule-abiding. And with that must come a great burden. So it has been my goal to teach them about justification and show that Christ eases rather than creates a burden.

I've done more asking than preaching thus far, but my goal during the next meeting is to skim through the book of Romans with them. I can't imagine anyone reading Romans with an open heart and concluding that our own righteousness will get us anywhere with God. We'll see what happens...




I ask because I have a few Mormons in my classes and am more than civil with all of them.

I also know enough, though I wouldn't say that I've devoloped a real big argument, to refute Mormonism. I am familiar with the doublespeak and plausible deniablities that many mormons seem to fall back on when challenged.

I however do not have any practical experience with actually sharing this infomation with Mormons.

you reading this John? :wink:

Help?

[themuzicman]

I've pointed out the inconsistency in having Jesus be a different god from God. They don't take to that very well.

Michael

[Xmansmommy]

Hamburglar,
Great first post! Awesome that you are taking the time to sit with and discuss these very important issues with LDS missionaries. :highfive: They are indeed very sincere in their missions and they do believe they are doing the will of God. With that said...you made some fantastic points! Arguing Mormon history/doctrine certainly isn't the most productive method of witnessing to Mormons, although some say it works for them. They will become increasingly defensive and truly that defeats the whole purpose of the discussion. Only those that are truly sincere about learning the truth are going to consider what you say no matter how you go about sayng it. Again, my experiences.

They are there simply to try to convert you. That is their goal. They use methods such as personal testimonies of the truthfullness of the BOM and the authority of JS and the church leaders, etc. They may often during the discussions, ask you how you are feeling about a particular point they are making. This is to attempt to have you draw on emotion which they will suggest is the Holy Spirit witnessing to you, if you agree of course. I am in no way suggesting that they are doing this with intentional deceit. I believe they truly believe what they are sharing, it's just that they are deceived themselves and don't know it.

They have as you stated, fuzzy definitions of terms that mean something quite different to Christianity. Salvation as you pointed out, to them means several things. First, they believe the free gift of salvation to mean that you will inherit a resurrected body. Everyone will. Whether it be to one of the 3 degrees of glory or to outter darkness will depend on your works. Essentially it means that Christ died on the cross to give you the opportunity to do good enough works to attain the varying degrees of glory, or not. They teach that after all we can do (meaning repentance, baptism into the church, good works, worthy temple cardholder, church callings, etc.) then the grace of God is sufficient to resurrect you into one of the degrees of glory that your works earned you, basically.

From my very limited experience in dealing with Mormons since I've been saved, asking questions can be a great tool to getting them to go to the scriptures first, and secondly to question what they believe, which ultimately is what will cause them to seek truth. If you can show them something in scripture which shows the error of Mormon doctrine you will be planting seeds. Remember though, that it is God who gives the increase. I pray your next meeting with them will provide very fruitful and may God guide you in your witness to them. All for His glory!

Blessings,
Linda

[Xmansmommy]

Jin, my experiences with Christians as a Mormon were very limited to be quite frank. There is certainly an exclusivity with groups such as this one, which to some degree or another "shield" it's members from outside influences. I trust that you might be able to break down some of those walls in your witness to your friends and peers.

I would suggest like Hamburglar, that you be gentle and patient with them. Use scripture and make sure that when you do, use them in context. Don't let them take them out of context. That is how they have come to many of the beliefs that they hold now. :doh:

I can relate briefly what helped me to see the error of Mormon doctrine.....

I was confronted by a Christian, that like many others, had questioned the Jesus of Mormon doctrine. She suggested that Mormons didn't worship the Jesus of scripture. She was never rude or mean about it like many Christians were. There was something different about her than what I noticed from all the (LDS termed) "Mormon bashers". She didn't say the things she said in hate, or even in strong rebuke. She said them in love and it showed. Made an impression on me that I won't ever forget. She truly wasn't happy that we Mormons were lost. She genuinely cared about the eternal fate of us, and that too showed. To make a long story short, it was her love that impressed me enough to even begin a dialog with her and to eventually get to the point of discussing scripture. After that it eventually was my desire for the truth that brought me out. But had it not been for the love of a Christian sister towards me, I can honestly say that I highly doubt that I would have gone to scripture at that point in my life. Perhaps it may have happened at a furture point, but I am so thankful that it happened when it did.

[Mujibur]

I don't have much personal experience discussing theology with Mormons, although I have had several Mormon friends. Like you Jin, I have studied a lot on their theology and beliefs and read all kinds of books on what to bring up when discussing christianity/mormonism, but have not really had much chance to really hear personally from Mormons what their reaction to these arguments would be.

From talking with friends that have met with LDS missionaries though, I have heard that the most effective strategy is to share your testimony, and specifically what Jesus has done in your life. Especially describe personal experiences with Jesus where He really played a strong role in your life, not just theology that helped you get through a difficult circumstance. Don't attack, because then they will say that they are feeling a "spirit of contention" and change the subject. Also, if you show that you understand their doctrine better than they do by focusing on demolishing their arguments, you will likely not be contacted again and will lose your chance to share Jesus with them. I like Hamburglar's strategy. :thumb: Be friends with them first. They are seeking to know God too. The fact that they are very forward with their beliefs and come to you to share them presents a great opportunity for discussion about Jesus. My mormon friends in University kept inviting me to lunchtime scripture studies and I deeply regret that my class schedule kept me from going, because it would have been a great opportunity to discuss faith with them.

[Xmansmommy]

I'm sorry you missed out on those opportunities too Mujibur. Great advice there though! :thumb:

[Bill the Cat]

I have 2 LDS that work with me. the best thing to do is investigate them and ask them what they believe. Be specific, because they tend to be vague. Did God have a Father? Does god exist because He IS or because He is sustained by His father? Stuff like that...

[Rahab]

I'm sorry you missed out on those opportunities too Mujibur. Great advice there though! :thumb:

Salut Linda....one advice that was given to me by one of my elders in the past was to ask the Missionary Mormons who would visit by about their testimony. His point was that LDS Church Members did not have a testimony in Christ where they share how they relate with Christ. Is that correct? He was mostly encouraging me to help them focus on the relational aspect of the christian with Christ and how it results in transforming us.

Otherwise my experience with the few LDS Church Members I knew was to observe that they do practise charity and are very good at providing for needy folks. A friend of mine who was homeless for a while related he would sleep at night on boats here and there and was sheltered for months by a Mormon family who provided him with a job and supported him until he could stand on his own feet. Being already born again, he did not convert into their church.

[Jin-Roh]

Well thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.
I hope that I'll have an oppurtinity to use all of your advice in the near future.

[Trout]

Well thanks for everyone's thoughts so far.
I hope that I'll have an oppurtinity to use all of your advice in the near future.

If you need some reference material, check out these sites.

http://www.mormonism.web.com/
http://www.utlm.org/

God bless you Jin.