So how are LDS Apostate regarded?

[Jin-Roh]

This one's for the Exmo's and Current LDSers.

How are Mormon Apostates thought of by LDSers and what are the Theological implications? Are they still covered by Proxy baptism.

[John Powell]

JIN-ROH:
This one's for the Exmo's and Current LDSers.

How are Mormon Apostates thought of by LDSers and what are the Theological implications? Are they still covered by Proxy baptism.


POWELL:
The early Mormons judged apostates more severely than modern Mormons do. Some modern Mormons were willing to do the proxy work for Adolf Hitler, so surely there are some who would be willing to do proxy work for Mormon apostates.

JOHN MORMON:
It's our job to do the proxy work for EVERYONE we can unless told not to. It's up to them and God whether they benefit.

John Powell.

[Jin-Roh]

POWELL:
The early Mormons judged apostates more severely than modern Mormons do. Some modern Mormons were willing to do the proxy work for Adolf Hitler, so surely there are some who would be willing to do proxy work for Mormon apostates.

Okay.
Consider this though: when a Christian goes apostate there is a great deal of discussion as to whether they were ever really a Christian to begin with. Typically, if somone may have "seemed" Christian (say, some apostate evanglist or something), people bring up the point of Judas -he did all of Christ's ministry, but Christ had him pegged as the traitor from the begining. It's the Once-saved-Always-saved question.

I personally question OSAS for a couple of reasons, but if an apostate claims to have been a real Christian, I don't give them the benefit of doubt. If I know them personally or have taken the time to hear their story and from other people around them I might be convinced.

So do Mormons have similiar dilemmas? Is baptism by proxy the only thing that is done? Is Once-Mormon-Always-Mormon a concept that is often discussed? Can an Apostate come back, and if so how?

JOHN MORMON:
It's our job to do the proxy work for EVERYONE we can unless told not to. It's up to them and God whether they benefit.

Well I guess that's very considerate of you. :smile:
So If I was baptized by proxy what does that mean for me?

[John Powell]

POWELL:
The early Mormons judged apostates more severely than modern Mormons do. Some modern Mormons were willing to do the proxy work for Adolf Hitler, so surely there are some who would be willing to do proxy work for Mormon apostates.

JIN-ROH:
Okay.

Consider this though: when a Christian goes apostate there is a great deal of discussion as to whether they were ever really a Christian to begin with. Typically, if somone may have "seemed" Christian (say, some apostate evanglist or something), people bring up the point of Judas -he did all of Christ's ministry, but Christ had him pegged as the traitor from the begining. It's the Once-saved-Always-saved question.

I personally question OSAS for a couple of reasons, but if an apostate claims to have been a real Christian, I don't give them the benefit of doubt. If I know them personally or have taken the time to hear their story and from other people around them I might be convinced.

So do Mormons have similiar dilemmas?


POWELL:
Sure. They might conclude the person was never a true believer in Mormonism, but they might also conclude that the apostate let temptation overcome him.

JIN-ROH:
Is baptism by proxy the only thing that is done?


POWELL:
No. Proxy marriages and such might also be done some time after the person dies if there are Mormon relatives of the apostate.

JIN-ROH:
Is Once-Mormon-Always-Mormon a concept that is often discussed?


POWELL:
Sure. Most of my believing family seem to think I really still believe, but I'm struggling. My Mormon friends find it easier to believe that I'm still a good person because I really still believe rather than that an apostate can be a good person. They were misled to think that if you reject Mormonism after once believing it then you reject acceptable morality and you become some kind of villain.

JIN-ROH:
Can an Apostate come back, and if so how?


POWELL:
It depends on how far you've separated. Since I have not had my name removed all I would have to do is affirm that I had become reconverted. I'm not sure what happens if you want to return after being excommunicated other than that you need to be rebaptized. I don't think you need to be reordained to the priesthood or go through the temple again, but those blessings are reinstated with the rebaptism. In some cases you need the ok of the First Presidency to be rebaptized.


JOHN MORMON:
It's our job to do the proxy work for EVERYONE we can unless told not to. It's up to them and God whether they benefit.

JIN-ROH:
Well I guess that's very considerate of you.


JOHN MORMON:
Your comment might be sarcasm, but if it's not then it's a healthier attitude than that of, say, the Jews who are offended by Mormon proxy work for their ancestors.

JIN-ROH:
So If I was baptized by proxy what does that mean for me?


JOHN MORMON:
It means that *IF* you choose to accept the proxy work and the true gospel while you're in the spirit world then you've fulfilled the requirement of baptism to enter the celestial kingdom.

POWELL:
It means you're experiencing the eternal oblivion that is death.

John Powell

[Jin-Roh]

POWELL:
No. Proxy marriages and such might also be done some time after the person dies if there are Mormon relatives of the apostate.

Proxy Marriages?! :huh:

JOHN MORMON:
Your comment might be sarcasm, but if it's not then it's a healthier attitude than that of, say, the Jews who are offended by Mormon proxy work for their ancestors.

Its very considerate that you will not proxy baptize when asked not to. I was not being sarcastic. I'm not sure how I would feel if I, or someone I was close too, was proxy baptisized.

JOHN MORMON:
It means that *IF* you choose to accept the proxy work and the true gospel while you're in the spirit world then you've fulfilled the requirement of baptism to enter the celestial kingdom.

Thanks! Now I can say that I've heard it from a LDS source. I guess evangelicals like Richard Abanes don't have it wrong all the time after all. :wink:

POWELL:
It means you're experiencing the eternal oblivion that is death.

John, the context of your responce makes me chuckle a bit, but I do have to say that reading this makes me a little sad.