So What Does The Koran Say About Christianity ?

[Ezraarah]

The koran , theholy book of islam never insults Christianity andthereis not asingle remark in the whole koran to which even the most prejudiced among The christians can take offense to if read without The Imam's Interpretation . Andif read in the Original language , Arabic . Andthis is proven becausein the history of islam there is a story where Muhammad's followers were Chased To Ethiopia to take refuge against the pagans in Mecca who sough to kill them . And while in Ethiopia The koran was presented to the Coptic Priest and King , And Verses were read without Interpretation without Commentaries , Or Explanation by fancy Fast - Mouth , Slick - Talking Imams , But Simple reading from the words of Allah And This Saved their lives , The story goes as follows
In The Month Of Rajab The 5th Years Of The Muhammad Calendar . The Migration Of Eighteen Person ( Thirteen Men And Five Women ) Were Cordially Received By Negus Ash'amah Son Of Abbar . The King Of Abyssinia ( Ethiopia ) To Seek Refuge There ( Upon Request By Muhammad There Altogether 83 People ) King Negus
( Of Abyssinia ) Ash'amah . Son Of Ahbar Was A Nubian Coptic Christian . He Died In The Month Of Raiab 9 A.H. And He Was Given An Islamic Burial By Prophet Muhammad In Madinah Yet He Never Converted To The Islamic Faith This Of The First Immigrants( Who Were All Of The Tribe Of Quraysh ) Were
( 1 ) Ja' far son of Abu Taalib - wife Asma
( 2 ) Uthman son of Affan who was the 3rd
( 3 ) Abu Hudhaifah son of Utbah - wife Sahlah
( 4 ) Zubair Son of Al Awam , couisn of Muhammad
( 5 ) Mus'ab son of 'Umair
( 6 ) Abdur Rahman son of ' Auf
( 7 ) Abu Salmah Al - Mukhzumi - Wife Umm Salmah
( 8 ) Uthman Son Of Maziun
( 9 ) Amir Son Of Al Rabiah - Wife Laila
(10) Abu Sabrah Son Of Abi Rahm
( 11) Hatib Son Of ' Amir
( 12 )Suhail Son Of Baida
( 13 ) Abdullah Son Of Mas'ud
Its important to note here that , Muslims followers came from Saudi Arabia , which is an Arabic speaking country , to Abyssinia which is a Hebrew and Amharic Speaking country . The Abyssinians Didnot Speak Arabic , So Muhammad's Followers had to Communicate with them and recite the koran in Hebrew. When the news that the Immigrants were living in Abyssinia reached the Meccans ( Pagans Desert Arabs El's Holy Qur'aan 9 ; 97 ) They were very angry . They immediate sent two men ( With gifts for the King , and His Priests ) T o Abyssinia to plead before The King to send the immigrants back home . The Meccans wanted The immigrants So that they
The Meccans . could persecute them further . The two men sent were named '' Amr Son of Al - As Son of Wa'il and Abdullat Son of Abu Rabi'a . They had a long Argument about how these people from Arabia ( Immigrants ) Hated Christianity and did not believe Christ was the son of God ( Koran 9 ; 30 - 31 ) and how Mary was not the Mother of God . and how Jesus didnot die on the cross for their Sins Koran 4 ;157 ... And how their Religion will take them to hell Koran 5 ; 73 . Upon this request
The Negus asked The Spokeman of the Immigrants , who was Muhammad's cousin Ja'far Son of Abu Talib , To Responds and he said ; '' O King we were a wicked and ignorant people who worshipped idols and even ate the corpse of animals that died a natural death . We committed all types of silly and disgraceful acts and did not pay our Due obligations to our neighbors and relatives .The Strong men of us suppressed the weak by power . Then Allah raised A Prophet amongs ourselves whose descent , Nobility Righteousness , Good Character And pure life were well known to Us . He call us to worship only one creator Allah , And exhorted usto give up idolatry and stone worship . He taught usto speak the truth to make good out truth to have regard for friends neighbors and kin and to do good to our neighbors . He enjoined upon us right conduct and forbade us from indecency , To offer Salaat andpay Zakkat to Shun everything foul and to Avoid bloodshed .He forbade adultery . Lewdness lies , Misappropriating The Orphan Heritage , Brining false accusations against other and other indecent thingsof that sort . He taugh us the glorious koran , The divine revelation . When we believed in him and acted upon hisnice teaching out people began to persecute us and to subject usto tortures , thinking that we might abjure our faith and revert to idolatry . When , however their cruelties exceeded all bounds , We took shelter in your county by the permission of our Noble Prophet . King Negus was quite Impressed with the Muslims and asked Ja'far Bin Abu Taalib to recite some portion of the Koran that Speaks about Jesus . Certain verse were Recited to the Ethiopians And this is A Historical Dact . Those Verse told about The Immaculate Conception ; How Jesus was illustrious in this world and the Hereafter . How Jesus was the Word Of Allah And The Spirit Of Allah ( Koran 19 ; 16 - 24 )
Chapter Fourty - Four < Reavealed In Year 615 A.D. Verse 58 And 71 Was Reavealed In Medina Maryam ( Mary ) Original Order Chapter 44 ... Wrong Order Chapter 19 .. Muhammad Told About Miriam ( Mary ) Mother Of TheSprout Of Life - Gabriel / Nusqu Sent To Her . As A Complete Mortal To Her About Isa / Yashua / Jesus Verse 14 - 21 ... Miriam ( Mary ) Give Birth To Yashua / Isa / Jesus His Mother , ''' Not To Grieve '' Stream Will Provide Water For You Miriam - Dates Will Drop From A Palm Tree Verse 22 - 26 ... Miriam ( Mary ) Confronted By Her Kindred - They Ask To Speak To Yashua / Isa / Jesus As AChild In The Cradle - Yashua / Isa / Jesus Tells Them He Is ' Abd Of Allah - A Newbearer - And He Is Not A Jabbaar Verse 27 - 32 ... Glad Tiding Of The Birth Of Yashua / Isa / Jesus illustriousness And Miraacles . Verse 44 - 54 .... By That The Ethiopian King Negus Was So Impressed By Ja'far's Recitation That It Brought Tears To His Eyes And The Eyes Of The Christian Priest . King Negus Responded By Saying ; By God , These Words And The Words Of The Bible Are The Rays Of The Same Light '' . He Found The Muslims To Be Sinere In Their Worship . The King Then Told The Two Meccans To Leave And That They Could Not Take The Immigrants ' Amr Son Of Al'as Tried Once Again To Get The King To Change His Mind By Saying There Were Nagative Thing Said About Jesus. Upon Hearing This , The King Asked Ja'far What Else Was Said About Jesus In Their Scripture . Ja'far Replied ; '' We Say About Him That Which Our Prophet Has Taught Us . He Was A Creature Of God AndHis Prophet . AndHis Spirit And His Word , AndA Sign Of The End Of The World . Which Was Born Unto The Blessed Virgin Maryam ( Mary ) '' . After This Reply . The King Of Abyssinia ( Ethiopia ) Welcomed Them To Stay In The Ethiopia As , Long As They Wanted , And Gave Them Refuge There ( Food , Clothes , Shelter ) .
The Following Is Excerpt From '' The Life Of Muhammad / Mohammed '' From Original Sources By Sir William Muir , K . C . S . I . First Emigration , Page 69
'' It may have also suggest the idea that the Hostile attitiude of their fellow - citizeds , combined with the merits of their creed . might secure for them within the limits of arabia that afforded by the Abyssinian King ; And thus given birth to the idea of A Greater ' Hijra '' The Emigration To Medina . Finally , It Turned The Attention To Muhammad / Mohammed More Closely And More Favourable To The Christian Religion . If An Arab Asylum Had Not At Last Offered Itself To Medina . The Prophet Might Happily Have Emigrated To Abyssinia And Muslims Have Dwindeled , Like Montanism , Into An Ephemeral Christian Heresy . < The Similarity In Belief Is The Reason Why The Mulims Were Allowed Asylum In Abyssinia >
Ques ; Does That Mean That The Koran Is Just Portion Copied From The Bible ? Or Is It A Part Of The Bible ; Or Is It An Extention Of The Bible ?
The New Testament , Injil as the Muslims call it , is a product of the Torah , and The Koran is a product of the Injil . Let me make the clearer . The Koran is A By - Product or A Child of The Torah . The Korah came after the the Torah . The Torah had already given bith to a child called the New Testament . So then the Torah is the Koran's Granfather , All Three Books Are Related ;...
Laws That Can Be Found In The Old Testament , The New Testament And The Korah .
Law Old New Koran
Testament Testament
Sabbath Exodus Luke 4 ; 16 Koran 2 ; 65
31 ; 15
Assoc . Exodus Matthew Koran
Images 20 ; 3 4 ; 10 13; 13
With The
Creator
Obeying Exodus Matthew Koran
Laws 13; 9 - 10 5 ; 17 -18 5 ; 48
Anointing Exodus John Koran
40; 13 9;6,11 3 ; 45
Being Deut Matthew Koran
Tempted 6; 16 4 ; 1 - 11 7 ; 27
Curse Deut Luke Koran
Whoever 27 ; 26 16 ; 17 2; 159
Doesn't
Follow
Fasting Judges Matthew Koran
20 ; 26 4 ; 2 2 ; 196
Prostrate Number Matthew Koran
In Prayer 20 ; 6 26 ; 39 2 ; 173
Not Deut Mark Koran
Eating 14 ; 8 7; 18 -19 2 ; 173
Pork
Intox Levit Luke Koran
Sin 10 ; 9 1 ; 15 2 ; 219
Wearing Exodus Reve Koran
Of White 29 ; 5 -6 3 ; 5 , 7; 9 61 ; 14
Robes
Sacrifice Exodus Reve Koran
Chapter 7 Mark 9 ; 48 5 ; 27
Wearing Levit John Koran
A Beard 19 ; 27 7 ; 19 20 ; 94
These are only some of the laws that were already Established With Moses , And Fulfilled With Jesus And Confirmed With Muhammad
To verify the Koran's Relationship with the New Testament Is a Statement Written In A Pamphlet Entitled '' Christ In Islam '' From A Prominent Muslim Scholar Known As Ahmed Deedat ;
The Quran Absolves Jesus ( Pbuh ) From
All The False Charges Of His Enemies
As Well As The Misplaced Infatuation
Of His Followers, ''
So according to the Muslims the Koran is Suppose to clear up any Misconception that were Interpreted in the Bible without Doubt Koran 2;2 .. So This would mean , The Trinity , The Crucifixion Etc ... Now The Koran Also States That You Should Follow The Scriptures Of Before Koran 10 ; 94 . Now because The New Testament Focused On Yashua , Isa . Jesus Matthew 1 ; 1 And The Koran Focused On Yashua . Isa , Jesus , Koran 19 ; 34 . Then He Is The Character Most Mentioned Within It's Cover < So Is Yashua . Isa . Jesus The God Of The Koran ? > ( So Christian Who Don't Read The Koran On There Own Will Never Know That They Are Saysing The Same Thing And Have The Same Beliefs As The Muslims , And That In Fact , The Koran Is The Book Of Their Expected Comforter In John Chapter 14 , 15 , 16 ,
What Is A ( Muslim ) ? You Will Have Some Muslims Say It Means To Submits To Allahu - Subhaanahu Wa- Ta ' Ala ;...
The Word Muslim Is Derived From The Ashuric Syriac / Arabic Word Salama , Meaning '' To Be Peaceful . '' When You Add The Prefix Mu , Meaning '' One '' You Will Get Muslim , ''' One Who Is Of Peace . '' Obviously Today , Muslims Don't Live Up To That Definition . Like I Have Be Saying For A While The Muslims From The East Are Nothing But Blood Thirsty . Demonized Fanatics Who Will Kill In The Flash Of A Second , Oh By The Way Are Not The True Muslims According To Koran 9 ; 97 And The Muslim History ;..... Don't Believe Me Research ForYourself ;.....What Is Islam ? You Will Have Some Say The Submission To The Will Of Allahu - Sunhaanahu Wa - Ta ' Ala / God ;..... However , The Word Islaam Is Taken From The 5th Of Their God , Allah < As Salaam > Meaning '' The Peace '' Taken From The Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic Root Word ' Salama ' Meaning '' To Have Peace . To Be Peaceful '' Which The Euro - Arab Amd Muslims Greeting ''As - Salaamu - Alaykum '' Meaning '' Peace Be Upon You '' Come From . The Word Salaam Was Derived From The Aramic / Hebrew Word Shalom Meaning '' Peace '' The Religion Islam Is One Of The World's Youngest Religions, Being Established In The 16th Century , 610 A.D. To Be Exact , An Nuwaaubian Moor Arabian Man , Named Muhammad . Islam Is Based On The So - Called Five Pillars Of Faith ... Tawhiyd = The Oneness Of Allahu - Subhaanahu - Wa ' Ta ' Ala 20; 14... 20 ; 1 - 21 ;..... Salaat = Worship 2 ; 43 . 2 ; 40 - 46 ;.... Zakaat = Poor Rate
4; 162 . 4 ; 156 - 170 ;.... Ramadaan = Fasting 2 ; 185 . 2 ; 183 - 188 ;..... Hajj = Pilgriamge 2; 196 , 2 ; 190 - 196 ..Which They Had Stolen And Borrowed From Older Religions Like Judaism And Christianity , Buddhism . ;....
Here A Question You Can Ask A Muslims Why Do They Ignore That There Are Seven Salat Mentioned In The Quran ?
1) Salatul Fajr <> So ( give ) glory to God when yereach eventide and When Ye Rise In The Morning
( The Quran 30 ; 17 ; 17 ; 78 )
2) Salatudh Dhur <> Yea to him be praise , In the heavens and on earth And In The Late Afternoon ( The Quran 30; 18 )
3) Salatul Asr <> Guard strictly your ( habit of ) prayers , Especially The Middle Prayer ( The Quran 2 ; 238 )
4) Salatul Maghrib <> So ( give ) glory to God when Ye reach Eeventide ( The Quran 30 ; 17 )
5) Salatul Ishaa <> And after The Late - Night Prayer ( The Quran 24 ; 58 )
6) Salatul Ishraaq <> Our praises at eventide and at Break Of Day ( TheQuran 38 ; 18 ;.....
7) Salatut Tahajjud <> '' Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline Till TheDarkness Of TheNight ( The Quran 17 ; 78 ) ;....
Part Two Of This Thread Will Be What The True Muslims Believe About The Crucifixion Of Yashua . Isa , Jesus ;....
< Don't Believe Me Research These Things Out ForYourself >

[Egyptian Lady]

The Koran Is The Book Of Their Expected Comforter In John Chapter 14 , 15 , 16
errrrrrr hate to bust yer bubble here but the Comforter was the Holy Spirit, not the Koran,

[dizzle]

Ez: are you Muslim? No one could figure out due to your terrible post formatting (and if you really want your posts read you need to clean up your formatting).

[Dr T]

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.


What about this verse?

[Jacob]

Here's threee versions of Sura 9:29:

YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

So Christians are called followers of untruth, and need to support Muslim govenement financially, and need to be subdued, but we shouldn't feel like the Koran says anything bad about us, right?

Jacob

[bar Jonah]

Does not insult Christianity?

The Christian Bible writes not only that 1) Jesus is God and 2) the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Jesus are a historical fact, but also that 3) if the resurrection did not happen, that Christians are the most pitiful people on the face of the earth.

Does not the Koran say not only that Jesus/Yeshua/Isa is not God, but that the resurrection and even His crucifixion never happened?

I cannot think of a greater insult.

[WebToaster]

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

What about this verse?
You are engaging in 'cherry picking' of Qur'anic verses in much the same way as the terrorists. You can't understand Islam without understanding the Qur'an as a WHOLE first. Read the whole of the Qur'an and come to your own ideas about it instead of cherry picking verses (which I could also do with the Bible). Have you actually read the Qur'an from start to finish?

Islam as a WHOLE is an elegant theology about worshipping the one true God and includes dictates for respecting People of the Book (Christians and Jews). There are no dictates for respect of other faiths within the Bible, and throughout history this has resulted in many acts of 'terrorism' by Christians. Yes, the passages you cite are abused by the terrorists, but they are also abused by you because you do not put them in the context of Islamic theology as a whole. Thus, you have more in common with the terrorists than do most Muslims.

When you examine the Qur'an as a whole, you can't escape the basic fact that the Qur'an states that Christians can actually achieve salvation within Islam, here's a supportive verse from the Qur'an:

Those who believe (in the Qur'án), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Radical1]

What the heck was that mess in the OP supposed to mean. It was all but unreadable. Paragraphs would work wonders for the readability.

[WebToaster]

What the heck was that mess in the OP supposed to mean. It was all but unreadable. Paragraphs would work wonders for the readability.
yeah, almost all of Ezraarah's posts are completely unreadable because of both the bizarre formatting and rules for English punctuation which are not shared by anyone in the known world.

I try to read them, but get a headache about 1/2 of the way through.

[Radical1]

I'll have to look up more of his post's when I'm really bored

[bar Jonah]

However the question of the deity and resurrection of Jesus is not an issue of "cherry picking."

The crucifixion and resurrection is an issue of historical fact or non-fact upon which rests the entire meaning of Christianity. Without it, there is NO Christianity, period.

Consquently, any person who accepts the Koran as the truth... cannot possibly be a Christian. And vice versa. Any person who accepts Christ and is a Christian ... cannot possibly accept the Koran as true. The two are 100% mutually exclusive.

Surah 4:157 -- Saying that the crucifixion of Jesus never even occurred is the greatest conceivable insult to Christianity.

[WebToaster]

The crucifixion and resurrection is an issue of historical fact or non-fact upon which rests the entire meaning of Christianity. Without it, there is NO Christianity, period.
No, period! Its based upon resurrection and resurrection itself is a vague term which can be applied to either physical or spiritual resurrection. If you don't believe, just check the number of contemporary Christians who don't believe in a physical resurrection. The Qur'an itself supports a spiritual resurrection of Christ.

Consquently, any person who accepts the Koran as the truth... cannot possibly be a Christian. And vice versa. Any person who accepts Christ and is a Christian ... cannot possibly accept the Koran as true. The two are 100% mutually exclusive.
Duh! Any person who accepts the NT cannot possibly be a Jew. Can you see the correlation?

Surah 4:157 -- Saying that the crucifixion of Jesus never even occurred is the greatest conceivable insult to Christianity.
Jesus transcended the crucifixion in the Qur'anic view, to say otherwise is to limit God himself.

[bar Jonah]

No, period! Its based upon resurrection and resurrection itself is a vague term which can be applied to either physical or spiritual resurrection. If you don't believe, just check the number of contemporary Christians who don't believe in a physical resurrection. The Qur'an itself supports a spiritual resurrection of Christ.
Well spoken for a person whe rejects Christ as God.

But if there is no real resurrection for our own God, then He is still dead. And if He is still dead, we have no hope for our own life after death. Christ conquered His death on the cross with a literal, physical resurrection. He not only had a physical appearance, but ate and drank with people, touched objects and was touched by people. Men felt the hole in his hands, the hole in his side. Consequently, the hundreds and hundreds of eyewitnesses (including his closest friends and relatives) were so convinced of the reality of His literal resurrection from the dead, that they refused to recant their story even in the face of horrific torture, mutilation and execution. Being skinned alive, crushed slowly under rocks, crucified upside down, boiled in oil.... They knew what they saw and touched. It was and is the Truth. Jesus is both God and man, and is alive today. Not just in some figurative or symbolic or purely "spiritual" way, but in a physical sense. That much is explicitly described in the Bible.

As for "Christians" who dont' believe in a literal resurrection, they are by definitions not Christians at all. Christian Scientist cult members and other New Age pseudo-christians are hardly something to point to to support your argument. If I call myself a "Buddhist" but I torture puppies in public for fun and reject reincarnation, I am hardly a Buddhist at all. If I claim to be a Muslim but I exhort that Muhammed is a heretic and a servant of Shaitan, I am certainly not a Muslim. And if I reject the deity of Jesus and His very real, physical resurrection, I am in no way a member of the Body of Christ, today.


Jesus transcended the crucifixion in the Qur'anic view, to say otherwise is to limit God himself.
What on earth does this mean? The Koran explicitly states that Jesus was not crucified at all. It claims that God put the likeness of Jesus onto Judas, and thus it was Judas who was crucified. Not Jesus.

"Transcended the crucifixion?" That makes not the least bit of sense, in light of Surah 4:157. If Jesus was not crucified, then Christianity is categorically false. If He was crucified and rose from the dead, then Islam is categorically false.

[WebToaster]

As for "Christians" who dont' believe in a literal resurrection, they are by definitions not Christians at all.
Who said anything about a 'literal' resurrection of Christ? (and what on earth does that mean?) I was talking about spiritual versus physical resurrection of Christ.


What on earth does this mean? The Koran explicitly states that Jesus was not crucified at all. It claims that God put the likeness of Jesus onto Judas, and thus it was Judas who was crucified. Not Jesus.

"Transcended the crucifixion?" That makes not the least bit of sense, in light of Surah 4:157. If Jesus was not crucified, then Christianity is categorically false. If He was crucified and rose from the dead, then Islam is categorically false.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;" but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.

Transcend from dictionary.com which is entirely in agreement with the verse from the Qur'an you posted:

tran·scend v.
To pass beyond the limits of: emotions that transcend understanding.
To be greater than, as in intensity or power; surpass: love that transcends infatuation. See Synonyms at excel (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=excel).
To exist above and independent of (material experience or the universe): “One never can see the thing in itself, because the mind does not transcend phenomena” (Hilaire Belloc).

[bar Jonah]

Toaster, with all due respect, you're losing me.

Who said anything about a 'literal' resurrection of Christ? (and what on earth does that mean?) I was talking about spiritual versus physical resurrection of Christ.
"Spiritual resurrection?" What on earth does that mean? :huh:


That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;" but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.

Transcend from dictionary.com which is entirely in agreement with the verse from the Qur'an you posted:

tran·scend v.
To pass beyond the limits of: emotions that transcend understanding.
To be greater than, as in intensity or power; surpass: love that transcends infatuation. See Synonyms at excel (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=excel).
To exist above and independent of (material experience or the universe): “One never can see the thing in itself, because the mind does not transcend phenomena” (Hilaire Belloc).

Okay, so... Jesus is greater than the crucifixion. Again, what on earth does that mean? :huh:

Once again:

If Jesus was not crucified, then Christianity is categorically false, and we are to be pitied most among men.

If He was crucified and rose from the dead, then Islam is categorically false.

You can spout pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo all you like about so-called "spiritual," non-physical "resurrection," but the bottom line is still that Islam and Christianity can NOT both be true. They cannot both be valid. Either one is wrong, the other is wrong, or they are both wrong. Which is it?

[WebToaster]

Toaster, with all due respect, you're losing me.


"Spiritual resurrection?" What on earth does that mean? :huh:
RightIdea, at this point I think you're being disingenuous. Don't you understand the difference between a spiritual and physical resurrection?

Okay, so... Jesus is greater than the crucifixion. Again, what on earth does that mean? :huh:

Once again:

If Jesus was not crucified, then Christianity is categorically false, and we are to be pitied most among men.

If He was crucified and rose from the dead, then Islam is categorically false.

You can spout pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo all you like about so-called "spiritual," non-physical "resurrection," but the bottom line is still that Islam and Christianity can NOT both be true. They cannot both be valid. Either one is wrong, the other is wrong, or they are both wrong. Which is it?
Why do you accuse me of spouting pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo when you don't even seem to understand the difference between a physical and spiritual resurrection? It seems pretty straight-forward to me. If you want to start spouting trinitarian doctine, then we'll get into pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo.

[soulflame]

Christ said that He was the way, the truth, and the light...no man can come to the Father but by Him. That totally negates Islam right there. Oh, and if He didn't rise in a physical form...then why does the Bible say that there was no body in the tomb?

[twohumble]

RightIdea, at this point I think you're being disingenuous. Don't you understand the difference between a spiritual and physical resurrection?


Why do you accuse me of spouting pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo when you don't even seem to understand the difference between a physical and spiritual resurrection? It seems pretty straight-forward to me. If you want to start spouting trinitarian doctine, then we'll get into pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo.
I believe that discussion of a "spiritual resurrection" is what is disingeneous. This is certainly a cop-out on the text, and in no way is representative of what Biblical scripture says. In fact, its warned against by both Paul and John in their epistles, and was the first of the heresies to take root. The gnostics were spouting this and their teaching was severely rebuked by John and Paul.

I fully understand that anyone who denies the NT will disagree with this, so we are left in a stalemate. Close examination of all the evidence strongly supports the NT and puts into real question the Quran.

Notice how the Quran seems to change its tune regarding whether to be nice to Christians? If not..read the Quran in order and you will see a marked change in the tenor of how Christians are to be treated. Interestingly, this change in attitude corresponds to Muhammads change in business relationship with the Jews and Christians. In his early days as a merchant, he regularly traded with Jews and Christians, and the Q speaks well of the Jews and Christians in the early Quranic verses. Later in Muhammeds life, he was rebuked by the Jews and Christians, and coincidentally (NOT) the Q in the later Surah's speaks harshly of Jews and Christians, and warns Muslims not to do business with them. But then again, this book is from God, and I am sure God changes His mind often (NOT)!

[butterfly791]

why do everyone fight when it comes to religion????
i mean cant everyone jus get along?? for crying out loud!!!!!
Islam is a peaceful religion and im sure christianity is too so why dont everyone be peaceful and let others believe in what they want to believe, if u want to believe that all muslims are evil spiteful ppl that hate christianity and the Quran says bad things about christianity then believe it all you want, and if u think that Christianity is right then believe it, u have the right to believe whatever u want,no one can tell u what to believe but just think of it like this ok, we'll see who is right on the day of judgment. FULL STOP!!
Now stop ur bickering!! :teeth:

[Krusader]

why do everyone fight when it comes to religion????
i mean cant everyone jus get along?? for crying out loud!!!!!
Islam is a peaceful religion and im sure christianity is too so why dont everyone be peaceful and let others believe in what they want to believe, if u want to believe that all muslims are evil spiteful ppl that hate christianity and the Quran says bad things about christianity then believe it all you want, and if u think that Christianity is right then believe it, u have the right to believe whatever u want,no one can tell u what to believe but just think of it like this ok, we'll see who is right on the day of judgment. FULL STOP!!
Now stop ur bickering!! :teeth:

It's hard to get along when people are lobbing off heads in the name of Allah. The Quran is not peaceful - it teaches the spread of Islam by jihad, either in a passive or agressive manner. Christianity, on the other hand, teaches that God, Himself, leads people to Christ - apart from any sword.

Take just one country - Nigeria. Periodically, Christian churches are burned by Mudslims and Christians killed for professing Christ (especially if they have converted to Christianity from Islam).

Christians wish to live peacefully with their Muslim neighbors - but the evidence available would indicate this is not a mutually agreed upon principle.

[butterfly791]

It's hard to get along when people are lobbing off heads in the name of Allah. The Quran is not peaceful - it teaches the spread of Islam by jihad, either in a passive or agressive manner. Christianity, on the other hand, teaches that God, Himself, leads people to Christ - apart from any sword.

Take just one country - Nigeria. Periodically, Christian churches are burned by Mudslims and Christians killed for professing Christ (especially if they have converted to Christianity from Islam).

Christians wish to live peacefully with their Muslim neighbors - but the evidence available would indicate this is not a mutually agreed upon principle.
[QUOTE]

excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!!!!!!!!! as far as im concernd i live peacefully with my christian neighbours, and r u tryin to tell me that u have not seen or heard of any christians being evil, verbally abusing and even physically abusing muslims???? get to reality mate its happens the other way around aswell. I was a victim of physical abuse when i was only 10. A bunch of christian boys pulled mu headscarf off of my head and punched me i my face and they were around 20 years old! I was also verbally abused by them and they also spat on me, and have i ever detested christians? NO! why? because i know there r some people out there who see things differently and we have to except the fact that these people believe in violence but, I REPEAT, BUT majority of muslims live in a peacefull way, my best freinds are christians! so there u go!!! what dyu have to say to that???????????????????

[butterfly791]

[QUOTE]

excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!!!!!!!!! as far as im concernd i live peacefully with my christian neighbours, and r u tryin to tell me that u have not seen or heard of any christians being evil, verbally abusing and even physically abusing muslims???? get to reality mate its happens the other way around aswell. I was a victim of physical abuse when i was only 10. A bunch of christian boys pulled mu headscarf off of my head and punched me i my face and they were around 20 years old! I was also verbally abused by them and they also spat on me, and have i ever detested christians? NO! why? because i know there r some people out there who see things differently and we have to except the fact that these people believe in violence but, I REPEAT, BUT majority of muslims live in a peacefull way, my best freinds are christians! so there u go!!! what dyu have to say to that???????????????????
oh and another thing..... i have never hated other people from other religions NEVER!!!! and nor has anyone else i know who are muslims, my brother himself is a very religious person and he hates what is goin on and he detests all this AL- QAIDA business and he knows its wrong!!! Not every muslim thinks like the AL- QAIDA!!! I certainly dont!!!

[!Fluffy!]

why do everyone fight when it comes to religion????
i mean cant everyone jus get along?? for crying out loud!!!!!

You need to go back and read the original post. When blatant lies are posted in a public THEOLOGY forum they will be treated as a challenge, attacked and refuted. If you can't stand the heat you shouldn't go in the kitchen.

Islam is a peaceful religion and im sure christianity is too

Yeah, right. I won't bring up the recent non-peaceful activities of Islam, and you won't bring up some morons messing with you when you were 10.

But the point being made here is that the two are mutually exclusive beliefs. There can be no philosophical compromise with two views claiming exclusivity to truth. Either Christ crucified rose from the dead or he didn't. Either the Bible is true or the Q is true. One is a lie, one is true - or both are lies. It's a fact, it's a reality. This is an important concept you and others like you are unwilling to address.

Rather than confront the uncomfortable reality, you wave your arms and ask for an end to bickering. Are you capable of or willing to address the point of the original post or the responses?

The op made a statement regarding what the Koran says about Christianity. Apparently the op would have us believe, like you, that Islam is a peaceful religion and the Q holds nothing against Christianity.

Christ said we would know the truth, and the truth would set us free. To unquestioningly accept lies and half-truths from another is wrong and not something a true Christian would do.


so why dont everyone be peaceful and let others believe in what they want to believe, if u want to believe that all muslims are evil spiteful ppl that hate christianity and the Quran says bad things about christianity then believe it all you want,
Where in this thread is there ONE post saying that Christians believe that all muslims are evil spiteful people?

and if u think that Christianity is right then believe it, u have the right to believe whatever u want,no one can tell u what to believe but just think of it like this ok, we'll see who is right on the day of judgment. FULL STOP!!
Now stop ur bickering!! :teeth:

So when someone posts the truth, and the truth makes you uncomfortable, and you have not ONE valid response to it, you throw up your hands and demand an end to the bickering?

Did you actually read any of the posts here or is it just too much of a challenge?

[Krusader]

[QUOTE]

excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!!!!!!!!! as far as im concernd i live peacefully with my christian neighbours, and r u tryin to tell me that u have not seen or heard of any christians being evil, verbally abusing and even physically abusing muslims???? get to reality mate its happens the other way around aswell. I was a victim of physical abuse when i was only 10. A bunch of christian boys pulled mu headscarf off of my head and punched me i my face and they were around 20 years old! I was also verbally abused by them and they also spat on me, and have i ever detested christians? NO! why? because i know there r some people out there who see things differently and we have to except the fact that these people believe in violence but, I REPEAT, BUT majority of muslims live in a peacefull way, my best freinds are christians! so there u go!!! what dyu have to say to that???????????????????

Of course not every Muslim supports the hateful terrorists and those that attack Christians simply because of their faith. However, unfortunately, the Quran of the Muslims is jammed full of admonitions to attack those who do not accept Mohammed as a genuine prohet. Christians and Jews must pay poll taxes if they refuse to submit to Mohammed and suffer other penalties. Muslims who convert to Christ are to be killed unless they repent.

There are peaceful Muslims - but it is not because of what is written in the Quran or the Hadith.

[!Fluffy!]

The koran , theholy book of islam never insults Christianity

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.


Surah 4:157 -- Saying that the crucifixion of Jesus never even occurred is the greatest conceivable insult to Christianity.

If Jesus was not crucified, then Christianity is categorically false, and we are to be pitied most among men.

If He was crucified and rose from the dead, then Islam is categorically false.

You can spout pseudo-metaphysical mumbo jumbo all you like about so-called "spiritual," non-physical "resurrection," but the bottom line is still that Islam and Christianity can NOT both be true. They cannot both be valid. Either one is wrong, the other is wrong, or they are both wrong. Which is it?

why do everyone fight when it comes to religion????
i mean cant everyone jus get along?? for crying out loud!!!!!


It's hard to get along when people are lobbing off heads in the name of Allah. The Quran is not peaceful - it teaches the spread of Islam by jihad, either in a passive or agressive manner.

Rather than confront the uncomfortable reality, you wave your arms and ask for an end to bickering. Are you capable of or willing to address the point of the original post or the responses?

So when someone posts the truth, and the truth makes you uncomfortable, and you have not ONE valid response to it, you throw up your hands and demand an end to the bickering?

Did you actually read any of the posts here or is it just too much of a challenge?

Interesting how the silence becomes its own testimony....

[Krusader]

Interesting how the silence becomes its own testimony....

Yes, you are right. What about the Hadith, Vol. 4, Bk. 52, No. 260, narrated by Ikrima where Mohammed states that if somebody abandons their religion they are to be killed?

Nice religion! No wonder Muslims aren't converting to Christ in droves - or if they are, they keep it secret.

[butterfly791]

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh i didnt ignore what is goin on moonwoman, its the fact that at the end of the day, whatever christians and muslims say they both argue and that aint gettin us anywhere!!! just coz u dont understand the Quran doesnt mean u can take bits and bobs out of it and try to mke it out like u know what it means, but u dont!!!!!!!!!

[!Fluffy!]

So it took you 5 days to come up with that witty, enlightening (non)reply?

What other gems of wisdom do you have for us ignorant infidels, hm? Or is it just too hard to confront your own ignorance and fears in the face of reason, logic or facts regarding the "peaceful" religion you claim to know so much about.

Your whining is nothing more than distractive blather. Grow some nads or stay out of debate forums why don't you. Better yet, grow some brains and say something meaningful or keep your mouth shut.

Until you respond to the previous posts, don't bother coming back with inanities.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I can't abide a "religious" close-minded fool who can't even respond to basic questions about their so-called beliefs.

[butterfly791]

[QUOTE=Moon Woman]So it took you 5 days to come up with that witty, enlightening (non)reply?

What other gems of wisdom do you have for us ignorant infidels, hm? Or is it just too hard to confront your own ignorance and fears in the face of reason, logic or facts regarding the "peaceful" religion you claim to know so much about.

Your whining is nothing more than distractive blather. Grow some nads or stay out of debate forums why don't you. Better yet, grow some brains and say something meaningful or keep your mouth shut.QUOTE]

no it didnt take me 5 days to come up wih that i was away to see my family.. but let me tell you somethin. Do you want to know the truth? DO YOU? WELL YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

but let me tell you anyway:
1)I am not the one thats ignorant

2)People are scared of muslims, they are afraid of our religion, and they are afraid that it is one of the most fastest growing religions (alhamdulillah)

3)They are afraid because our religion is all about purity, and the fact that it restricts them from doing whatever they please and enjoying a certain lifestyle that they want. Our religion is hard to understand when you see it from an outsiders view but if you were to be a bit more open minded you would see understand, doesnt mean you have to believe it, but u would understand.

4) our religion has alot of rules and regulations that non-muslims do not want to abide by.

i could go and on but theres no point because you think you knoe big fancy posh words, you think your more intelectual??? yeh right!!!

Fair enough you got Osma bin Laden doing things that he shoudnt, yeh hes a terrorist because hes killing innocent people, men women and children. but hold on what about BUSH??? he claimed there was a "weapon of mass destruction" in Iraq... I dont see it. If you mean oil, yeh we all see that... so beacuse of this "weapon" he invaded iraq and what about the innocent men women and children there???
If terrorism is about what Osama Bin Laden is doin then Bush is jus the same and his lap dog Blair.

Now you are probably thinkin what has all of this got to do with what the Quran says about Christianity. Right???
Well all of this has got somethin to do with it. For example we say Quran teaches peace and only when Islam is under threat THAT is when we go for Jihad, and yeh Islam is under threat! It all comes down to "an eye for an eye"..

So to round this all off "MOONWOMAN", Islam IS a peacful religion, so be a bit open minded and try researchin in to depth and try understanding it properly before you go dissin our religion!!!!

Oh and one more thing.....NO ONE TELLS ME TO SHUT MA MOUTH!!!! YOU IGNORANT KAFFIR, SALEE BENCHOD, HARAMZADI, KUTTI!!! HAHAHAHAHA (and yeh im being childish, coz u ignorant people bring my childish side out)


Watch your language

[butterfly791]

CRUSADER SAID:
Yes, you are right. What about the Hadith, Vol. 4, Bk. 52, No. 260, narrated by Ikrima where Mohammed states that if somebody abandons their religion they are to be killed?

Nice religion! No wonder Muslims aren't converting to Christ in droves - or if they are, they keep it secret



I hardly see any muslims turn into Christians dyu know why??? coz we believ our religion from the heart and no one can take that away from us! But its amazing innit when u see alot of christians turn in to muslims??? mmmmmm.
what it says about Mohammed saying they should be killed if they abandon Islam, well firstly not alot of muslims know that, so how can they be scared of something they dont know?? and secondly try to see the meaning behind it not jus what it blatantly says!!!! Yeh they will be punished if they convert and yeh they will die, but they will die amongst the kuffar and they will be punished in hell and there is no escaping that.

and moonwoman dont come out with your bullshit intelectual crap!!!! its jus so annoying coz u dont know what your talkin about... actually it makes me laugh because as i said before, i have strong faith in Islam, and I'll jus keep thinkin to myself "carry on with your arguments etc coz at the end of the day I know whats gonna happen"



Innapropriate language, please read the decorum (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/faq.php?faq=campus_decorum#faq_campus_decorum_profanity).

[Krusader]

CRUSADER SAID:
Yes, you are right. What about the Hadith, Vol. 4, Bk. 52, No. 260, narrated by Ikrima where Mohammed states that if somebody abandons their religion they are to be killed?

Nice religion! No wonder Muslims aren't converting to Christ in droves - or if they are, they keep it secret



I hardly see any muslims turn into Christians dyu know why??? coz we believ our religion from the heart and no one can take that away from us! But its amazing innit when u see alot of christians turn in to muslims??? mmmmmm.
what it says about Mohammed saying they should be killed if they abandon Islam, well firstly not alot of muslims know that, so how can they be scared of something they dont know?? and secondly try to see the meaning behind it not jus what it blatantly says!!!! Yeh they will be punished if they convert and yeh they will die, but they will die amongst the kuffar and they will be punished in hell and there is no escaping that.

and moonwoman dont come out with your bullshit intelectual crap!!!! its jus so annoying coz u dont know what your talkin about... actually it makes me laugh because as i said before, i have strong faith in Islam, and I'll jus keep thinkin to myself "carry on with your arguments etc coz at the end of the day I know whats gonna happen"

You know, butterfly, the vulgar expressions you are using in your rebuttal need to be cleaned up. We try to stay within certain standards here a TWEB. If you can't meet them, if you are reduced to the use of vulgarities, then withdraw.

[butterfly791]

yeh ok, so its alright for you to insult someone with your "intelectual" words but I cant do it in my way?? HA its the same thing either way you look at it coz an insult is an insult!! moonwoman insulted me so i insult her! is that a problem?????? :teeth:

and how did the moderater understand what i said it wasnt in english!!!!!!!!! hahahahaha :lol:

[butterfly791]

dont be such a baby!! im not being vulgar im just stating how i feel, and i am free to express how i feel about a certain thing, its called "opinion", jus how everyone else does! what is vulgar is when people do not understand something, e.g the Quran, and then claim to understand it. Like i said in my previous posts there is no point insulting Islam and takin little lines out of the Quran when you dont even understand the meaning of it and another thing, dont believe everthing you see on the internet.(if your getting your "lines" from the internet) get a Quran that is translated into english then go get a sunni scholar, (because even though it is in english, you still wont understand.) and then maybe your little brains, that are so filled up with contradiction, denial, and insults towards Allah (subhana-wa-tallah), the Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w), Islam and the Quran, will understand.

All i have to say is, I came onto this site and I posted a good reply. A reply trying to unite everyone and make evryone see peace, but No ignorant people had to make me angry. Maybe this will make you think. Think about why there are a growing number of muslims out there killing other people....
We try to make peace and show you that not all muslims are doing that, not all of us are bad! But you just throw it back in our faces calling us ignorant etc. No wonder more and more people are turning on you, coz you give them no choice!!! one peice of advice:
FIX UP!!!!!

Until then I think is a waste of time talking to you.

[butterfly791]

These are a few things about what the Bible says about war and killings of other religions. I thought you said the bible teaches peace and doesnt like the sword???????

"Deuteronomy chapter 7:

1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with
them, nor shew mercy unto them:"

Deuteronomy chapter 20:

12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [1] them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

[Christian2]

These are a few things about what the Bible says about war and killings of other religions. I thought you said the bible teaches peace and doesnt like the sword???????

"Deuteronomy chapter 7:

1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with
them, nor shew mercy unto them:"

Deuteronomy chapter 20:

12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy [1] them-the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites-as the LORD your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

butterfly791, in order to understand Christianity you must refer to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, the author of the Qur'an reverts back to the harsh sayings of the OT. Concentrate on Jesus. It is as if the author of the Qur'an never heard of His teachings. Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet; if so, then He spoke the words of God. Muslims ingnore what He said.

There is an article by the Christian-Thinktank that addresses Dt 20. It is: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/quranlike.html

Clip:

# The first thing to note about this passage is that it is about aggressive enemies--it is NOT about conquest of other nations, it is NOT about spreading Judaism throught the sword, and it is NOT about 'judgment' on infidel nations. It is about self-defence. [You can see this from the opening section in that chapter-- Israel is told not to be dismayed by the enemies' strength and battle formation IN THE FIELD.]

# The second thing to note is that conquest of land (and the implicit 'conversion' of that land to the worship of Yahweh) was NOT a general thrust in the Hebrew Bible. Israel was SPECIFICALLY forbidden to try to conquer the land of Esau (for example), and, had the kings of Bashan and the Amorities let Israel pass through the land without incident, Israel would NOT have been allowed to annex Transjordan. But these kings were aggressively oppressive, and so the Lord (not Israel) judged them with conquest. Israel was told to travel THROUGH these lands--NOT to convert them!

# Thirdly, the only conquest in the Hebrew Bible is about the land of Canaan, which was an explusion and NOT a 'conversion to YAHWEH'. There was nothing 'evangelistic' about it; it was a judgment by God on the Canaanites and their practices. God evicted them, and gave the land to new tenants.

# Fourth, the Abrahamic covenant was set up by God, with a specific judgment clause: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee". Any nation that attacked Israel (when Israel was relatively righteous--unlike the Exile) would be attacked by God (not by a land-hungry Israel). By the same token, God would have blessed Israel's neighbors had they been good neighbors to Israel (without ANY annexation of land!). That is, no requirement to convert to Israel's "version" of Yahwehism existed in the Hebrew Bible.

# Related to this, fifthly, is that Israel was NOT supposed to conquer/convert the nations, but rather to be a 'kingdom of Priests'--to intercede for, to teach, to heal, to nuture the foreigners. God would draw to Himself those Gentiles who wanted a closer relationship with Him.

Muhammad and his followers fought aggressive wars to spread Islam. Lands and people who posed no threat to him or Islam. Here is a list of some of them:

Source: http://www.carm.org/islam/islam_chronology.htm

Notice how closely Islam's inception is associated with war. From 623 to 777, a span of 154 years, there are 83 military conflicts involving the Muslims...and that is just what I have recorded here. Is Islam a religion of peace? Muslims tell me it is. But....

* 570 - Birth of Muhammad in Mecca into the tribe of Quraish.
* 577 - Muhammad's mother dies
* 580 - Death of Abdul Muttalib, Muhammad's grandfather.
* 583 - First journey to Syria with a trading Caravan
* 595 - Muhammad marries Khadijah a rich widow several years older than him.
* 595 - Second journey to Syra
* 598 - His son, Qasim, is born
* 600 - His daughter, Zainab, is born
* 603 - His daughter, Um-e-Kalthum, is born
* 604 - His daughter, Ruqayya, is born
* 605 - Placement of Black Stone in Ka'aba.
* 605 - His daughter, Fatima, is born
* 610 - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that
Allah is the only true God.
* 613 - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira. Gets few converts.
* 615 - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
* 619 - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
* 620 - Institution of five daily prayers
* 622 - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets
more converts.
* 623 - Battle of Waddan
* 623 - Battle of Safwan
* 623 - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
* 624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
* 624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
* 624 - Battle of Badr
* 624 - Battle of Bani Salim
* 624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
* 624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
* 624 - Battle of Sawiq
* 624 - Battle of Ghatfan
* 624 - Battle of Bahran
* 625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
* 625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
* 625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
* 625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
* 626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
* 626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
* 626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
* 627 - Battle of the Trench
* 627 - Battle of Ahzab
* 627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
* 627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
* 627 - Battle of Ghaiba
* 627 - Battle of Khaibar
* 628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
* 630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
* 630 - Battle of Hunsin.
* 630 - Battle of Tabuk
* 632 - Muhammad dies.
* 632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to
enforce Islam in Arabia.
* 633 - Battle at Oman
* 633 - Battle at Hadramaut.
* 633 - Battle of Kazima
* 633 - Battle of Walaja
* 633 - Battle of Ulleis
* 633 - Battle of Anbar
* 634 - Battle of Basra,
* 634 - Battle of Damascus
* 634 - Battle of Ajnadin.
* 634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph.
* 634 - Battle of Namaraq
* 634 - Battle of Saqatia.
* 635 - Battle of Bridge.
* 635 - Battle of Buwaib.
* 635 - Conquest of Damascus.
* 635 - Battle of Fahl.
* 636 - Battle of Yermuk.
* 636 - Battle of Qadsiyia.
* 636 - Conquest of Madain.
* 637 - Battle of Jalula.
* 638 - Battle of Yarmouk.
* 638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.
* 638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
* 639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
* 641 - Battle of Nihawand
* 642 - Battle of Rayy in Persia
* 643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
* 644 - Conquest of Fars
* 644 - Conquest of Kharan.
* 644 - Umar is murdered. Othman becomes the Caliph.
* 647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
* 644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
* 648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
* 651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
* 654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
* 656 - Uthman is murdered. Ali become Caliph.
* 658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
* 659 - Conquest of Egypt
* 661 - Ali is murdered.
* 662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
* 666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
* 677 - Siege of Constantinople
* 687 - Battle of Kufa
* 691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
* 700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
* 700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
* 702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
* 711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
* 711 - Conquest of Spain
* 713 - Conquest of Multan
* 716 - Invasion of Constantinople
* 732 - Battle of Tours in France.
* 740 - Battle of the Nobles.
* 741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
* 744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
* 746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
* 748 - Battle of Rayy.
* 749 - Battle of lsfahan
* 749 - Battle of Nihawand
* 750 - Battle of Zab
* 772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
* 777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain

Shalom

[Dr T]

You are engaging in 'cherry picking' of Qur'anic verses in much the same way as the terrorists. You can't understand Islam without understanding the Qur'an as a WHOLE first. Read the whole of the Qur'an and come to your own ideas about it instead of cherry picking verses (which I could also do with the Bible). Have you actually read the Qur'an from start to finish?

Islam as a WHOLE is an elegant theology about worshipping the one true God and includes dictates for respecting People of the Book (Christians and Jews). There are no dictates for respect of other faiths within the Bible, and throughout history this has resulted in many acts of 'terrorism' by Christians. Yes, the passages you cite are abused by the terrorists, but they are also abused by you because you do not put them in the context of Islamic theology as a whole. Thus, you have more in common with the terrorists than do most Muslims.

When you examine the Qur'an as a whole, you can't escape the basic fact that the Qur'an states that Christians can actually achieve salvation within Islam, here's a supportive verse from the Qur'an:

Those who believe (in the Qur'án), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


It was in response to a statement that the Koran doesn't say anything bad about Christians, read the very first line of the first post.

You only need one verse that shows this not to be true to refute the whole argument.

I admit that I haven't read all of the Koran, but I have read large parts of it and it isn't from God. It's general tone towards Christains is one of contempt.

Not sure why your showing that the Koran holds contradications adds to the conversation.

[Daco]

But then again, this book is from God, and I am sure God changes His mind often (NOT)!

Allah also abregates verses in the Quran/Torah (OT)/Gospel(NT). This is totally out of character with YHWH of whom it was said, "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." (Psalm 119:89).

I have a hard time seeing Allah and YHWH as the same God, and if they are not the same, then we have 2 Gods, and my theology won't stretch that far. Conventional Christianity does not, nor does Islam.