So lets talk Benny Hinn...

[Jin-Roh]

Okay, I keep hearing about this "Holy Spirit Machine Gun" what's the deal?

[Jin-Roh]

And if anybody here has watched his show or even been to his crusades, let me know.

[jpholding]

Today @ 06:25 PM
Jin-Roh:

And if anybody here has watched his show or even been to his crusades, let me know.

I can do better in a way. I attended his church for a few weeks to see what it was like and because I was invited to do so. This was over 15 years ago.

Back when he plied his trade in Orlando his church was not 10 miles from where I lived. I met him briefly -- he's quite the snob. But you want to know about his theatrics, and they were much more subdued back then. Still, the HGMG from what I see on TV looks like a more advanced version of the normal "slain the Spirit" routine he did when he was here, which looked no different than the same practice you might see in any Charismatic church.

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

oh dear, Benny Hinn.

According to his own statements, he receives the spiritual encouragement and refreshing from a dead woman (Katherine Kuhlman) at her graveside - and he has a key for it - so I consider his 'ministry' to be rooted in necromancy and should be avoided.

from Guy

[Rubia Warren]

Where did this "holy ghost machine gun" thing come from, anyway?? Did Benny start that? I always thought it was a term people used to make fun of Hinn, or something.
BTW- Benny Hinn is a circus freak.

[Sozo]

I hear the Holy Ghost enema is much more effective :yipee:

[Rubia Warren]

ROTFL:rofl:

[yxboom]

Isn't that usually administered in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses :eww:

[Sozo]

Today @ 03:35 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45555#post45555)
yxboom:

Isn't that usually administered in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses :eww:

Who are all administering the laying on of hands.

This must be done by an annointed "man of God", such as Benny himself, and is usually followed by the evidence of reciprocal whooshing.

[yxboom]

:eek:

[Gavin]

Who was it who pretended to be Binny that one time? That was stupendous.:thumb:

[Sozo]

Today @ 04:58 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45619#post45619)
Gavin:

Who was it who pretended to be Binny that one time? That was stupendous.:thumb:

:shy:

[Rubia Warren]

NOOO!!! Was it really you, Sozo?!?! I always just thought it was Paul D.

[Sozo]

Today @ 05:03 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45624#post45624)
La Rubia:

NOOO!!! Was it really you, Sozo?!?! I always just thought it was Paul D.

(shhh... don't tell anyone) :shifty:

[Rubia Warren]

You naughty thang!:yipee:

[jpholding]

Benny knocks people down with his coat too these days. I suspect it's because he fails to use Ban.

Let's help our friend here...no one else seen this bit about the HGMG? It does sound like something he'd do.

[Sozo]

"I want to use Holy Ghost machine gun to kill Heresy Hunters."

(Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon TBN, November 8, 1990 )

[Sozo]

"If you have attacked me, your children will pay for it."

(Benny Hinn, TBN "Heresy Hunters" October 23 1992)

[Sozo]

“If your engines aren’t revved up, then you need a holy ghost enema right up your rear end!”

...Suzanne Hinn

[yxboom]

I bet his wife likes putting edited by myself :nc:

[Sozo]

Coincidence?

"And he made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger"

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 10:54 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45468#post45468)
ghbearman:

oh dear, Benny Hinn.

According to his own statements, he receives the spiritual encouragement and refreshing from a dead woman (Katherine Kuhlman) at her graveside - and he has a key for it - so I consider his 'ministry' to be rooted in necromancy and should be avoided.

from Guy

WHOA!!!

Do you have a primary source for that?

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 05:23 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45734#post45734)
Sozo:

Coincidence?

"And he made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger"

eh, I think we can denouce benny without playing games with scripture.

[Sozo]

Today @ 07:26 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45736#post45736)
Jin-Roh:

eh, I think we can denouce benny without playing games with scripture.

"Come on brother, put your hands on the computer screen"

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 06:30 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45740#post45740)
Sozo:



"Come on brother, put your hands on the computer screen"
It's hard to have a serious conversation about someone who has preached that Adam could fly through the air, who had gills and could breathe underwater, who claimed women used to give birth out of their sides. He has made numerous prophecies that have categorically not come true, and is therefore a false prophet. He is either a highly functioning, delusional madman... or a criminal mastermind. Consequently, he belongs in either a mental hospital or a prison.

[jpholding]

Today @ 01:25 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45735#post45735)
Jin-Roh:



WHOA!!!

Do you have a primary source for that?

I believe it is reported in one of Hank Hanegraaf's books, one with a green cover. Christianity in Crisis. I can maybe check if no one else remembers.

[Rubia Warren]

Today @ 07:45 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45704#post45704)
Sozo:

"I want to use Holy Ghost machine gun to kill Heresy Hunters."

(Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon TBN, November 8, 1990 )

No way!! Really??? He really said that?
Wow, I always thought that was just a joke.
I've heard of the things RI mentioned, and I've even heard some of his prophecies which never came to pass, but I never heard all of that (although I am sure the list is endless with this character).

[yxboom]

Benny Hinn

“One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As—as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I—I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. ... I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. ... And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You—you—you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?”

Source: Double Portion Anointing, Part #3, Orlando Christian Center, Orlando, Fla., April 7, 1991. From the series, Holy Ghost Invasion. TV#309


FYI: A picture of Aimee's spectacular tomb. http://fakefaithhealers.com/Aimee.jpg

[SynchroKnight]

I think his hairstyle alone is enough to keep him from being taken seriously.


:wink:

[Rubia Warren]

I thought you had to get in with a key?:huh:

[Socrates]

JP is right -- this is documented in the book Christianity in Crisis (Harvest House, Eugene OR, 1993) by Hank Hanegraaff, President of the Christian Research Institute, and ancillary audiotapes of Hinn's own words. Hanegraaff cites one of Hinn's many pretend retractions, Randy Frame, "Best-selling author makes mistakes, vows changes", Christianity Today, 28 October 1991, pp. 44-45.

Hanegraaff is a charismatic Christian himself, so his objections can't be dismissed as anti-pentecostal prejudice.

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

Today @ 01:25 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=45735#post45735)
Jin-Roh:



WHOA!!!

Do you have a primary source for that?

Yes, and here it is: (it's mostly about Aimee McPherson, but Kuhlman gets a passing mention - apparently I spelled her name wrong, sorry)


“One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As—as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I—I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. ... I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. ... And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You—you—you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?”(11)

11. Benny Hinn sermon, Double Portion Anointing, Part #3, Orlando Christian Center, Orlando, Fla., April 7, 1991. From the series, Holy Ghost Invasion. TV#309

Too right it's shocking - and his response is soooo weak. "There's things we'll never understand" - yeah sure, but I understand Leviticus and Deuteronomy when it says NO NECROMANCY!

from Guy

[Rubia Warren]

This thread is 3 pages long already, and nobody has posted any kind of defense of Hinn.... makes me kinda wish c.moore was here, it could get a little fun, you know?

[Sozo]

Today @ 08:59 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=46096#post46096)
La Rubia:

This thread is 3 pages long already, and nobody has posted any kind of defense of Hinn.... makes me kinda wish c.moore was here, it could get a little fun, you know?


"Feed me c. moore feeeed me...."

[yxboom]

GHBearman you kinda requoted what I already wrote on the previous page (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=45766#post45766)

Sozo, that is a CLASSIC! :thumb:

[Sozo]

Today @ 09:28 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=46106#post46106)
yxboom:


Sozo, that is a CLASSIC! :thumb:

Thanks! It only makes sense to those who have seen "Little Shop Of Horrors"

[yxboom]

Feed me. Feed me. Feed me.
Feed me, C. Moore. Feed me all night long.
(That's right, boy! You can do it!)
Feed me, C. Moore. Feed me all night long. (Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.)
'Cause if you feed me, C. Moore, I can grow up big and strong.

[Rubia Warren]

ROTFL

This is no fun with c.moore not here, it's not the same without him.

[Xmansmommy]

LOL Sozo, I also always thought it was Paul too Rubia. Way too funny Sozo :thumb:

[Bill the Cat]

Y'know, I used to defend Benny Hinn. He does some "good things" for the community... or so I thought. He's put off projects he's collected millions for and never said where the money was. Anyone who lives in a $5M dollar mansion and claims to serve God really has some heart issues to deal with. Does he need a 24 room house? What could that money go for? Build the community center in Mexico that he collected 8 million dollars for and hasn't so much as broken ground.

As far as the slain in the spirit, I have been twice, and as God as my witness, I could not get up no matter how hard I tried for like 5 minutes. Weird!! But funny thing, the more I study and get into God's word, the less the manifestations occur to me. Maybe it's just a strengthening of the saints kind of thing for the weaker brothers and sisters to go beyond the physical manifestations to the Spiritual things??? :huh:

Now Benny Hinn abuses it and the people at his crusades are overplaying it IMO. I have NEVER seen where getting slain in the Spirit was ever done "en masse." :bonk:

[bar Jonah]

Every so briefly off topic, but...

Bill, I love the name and I LOVE the avatar. :cool: :thumb:

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 02:27 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=46331#post46331)
Bill the Cat:

Y'know, I used to defend Benny Hinn. He does some "good things" for the community... or so I thought. He's put off projects he's collected millions for and never said where the money was. Anyone who lives in a $5M dollar mansion and claims to serve God really has some heart issues to deal with. Does he need a 24 room house? What could that money go for? Build the community center in Mexico that he collected 8 million dollars for and hasn't so much as broken ground.

As far as the slain in the spirit, I have been twice, and as God as my witness, I could not get up no matter how hard I tried for like 5 minutes. Weird!! But funny thing, the more I study and get into God's word, the less the manifestations occur to me. Maybe it's just a strengthening of the saints kind of thing for the weaker brothers and sisters to go beyond the physical manifestations to the Spiritual things??? :huh:

Now Benny Hinn abuses it and the people at his crusades are overplaying it IMO. I have NEVER seen where getting slain in the Spirit was ever done "en masse." :bonk:
Two members of the GODISNOWHERE team used to be Hinn followers years ago. (Now, they're not only anti-Hinn but not even charismatic.) But Adam (TruthMan) personally saw Hinn "slay" em "en masse" as you said. He reports that he and his friend also fell down, but only because they didn't want to be the only ones left standing. It was a kind of peer pressure.

But I do believe your own account of being "slain." Nevertheless, that doesn't mean it was a real spiritual experience. The power of suggestion should never be underestimated. As a former witch, I have seen people paralyzed or affected in other ways by only the power of suggestion. I have been so affected, myself, and yet today, I look back and know it was only my imagination. I "remembered" past lives, but such lives never happened. And I would suggest to you the possibility that this was the case with you. You couldn't move because you believed you wouldn't be able to move.

The mind is a very powerful thing.

[Rubia Warren]

I have never been slain in the spirit, but my mom has, and insists that it's from God, which is why I believe it COULD happen, but I still doubt (my mom isn't as fruity as I am, so I still keep an open mind that perhaps it is from God).
My friend just started coming to my church (I go to a pentecostal church), and her biggest complaint is that when she's being prayed over, she thinks she gets slain in the spirit, but the people praying behind her hold her up and don't let her fall back, so she thinks we are wierd, and doesn't know if she wants to stay there. I have kept quiet so far, as I haven't found the right time or place to ask her, "If you were truly "slain", then how could you remain standing just because someone behind you wouldn't let you go down?"... I would think she would just hang there, limp, and not be able to move, which is why I DO believe that it is some kind of a mind suggestion most of the time.
Another thing I noticed, is that the last church I attended, it was the same way- charismatic worship, gettin' down wit' the music, etc. but no "slayings". Well, for some reason, for a few weeks in a row, these same few women would fall back-every service. So, one night, as my pastor was preaching, he made a little comment about our worship, tongues, prophesying, etc. being spoken of in the bible, but he had not seen in the bible about being "slain in the spirit", and said, "I am not saying it's not from God... I am just saying, I haven't seen it in scripture." And that was all he said about it- he was preaching on something else, so he got back on topic. But, after that, all kinds of stuff happened, but not another "slaying" to be seen. It is kind of interesting. But, I am no expert on God, or anything, and I am sure if He wanted to, He would, and maybe he does, as in Bill's case. I just have doubts that it happens this much, like what we see on TV.

[bar Jonah]

La Rubia, considering everything you just passed on to us, why do you believe it exists at all?

[Bill the Cat]

Today @ 04:29 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=46333#post46333)
RightIdea:

Every so briefly off topic, but...

Bill, I love the name and I LOVE the avatar. :cool: :thumb:


Well, my name is Bill and I got tatooed with Bill the Cat in my pre saved days. It's my reminder of what life leads to without the presence of the Holy Spirit. As far as Wolverine, I think that was the best adaptation of ANY Marvel character EVEr on film. I am a big X Men fan and can't wait for X2.

[Rubia Warren]

*shrugs*
I don't know that it does- I just think if God wanted to, He could. But, from what I have seen, I doubt that He does.

[Bill the Cat]

Today @ 04:34 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=46335#post46335)
RightIdea:


Two members of the GODISNOWHERE team used to be Hinn followers years ago. (Now, they're not only anti-Hinn but not even charismatic.) But Adam (TruthMan) personally saw Hinn "slay" em "en masse" as you said. He reports that he and his friend also fell down, but only because they didn't want to be the only ones left standing. It was a kind of peer pressure.

But I do believe your own account of being "slain." Nevertheless, that doesn't mean it was a real spiritual experience. The power of suggestion should never be underestimated. As a former witch, I have seen people paralyzed or affected in other ways by only the power of suggestion. I have been so affected, myself, and yet today, I look back and know it was only my imagination. I "remembered" past lives, but such lives never happened. And I would suggest to you the possibility that this was the case with you. You couldn't move because you believed you wouldn't be able to move.

The mind is a very powerful thing.

Thanx for the word of caution. I too have pondered this in my heart. I felt God explain to me that that was the only way He could get me to shut up long enough to tell me what He wanted me to do with my life. :thumb: Since my second experience, I have completely dedicated my life to Him and the calling He put on my life to win the teens for Christ.

[Jin-Roh]

Hanegraaff is a charismatic Christian himself, so his objections can't be dismissed as anti-pentecostal prejudice.

Serious? I usually hear him do nothing but critisize pentecostal pratice. He doesn't come down on "slain in the spirit" stuff as bad as he does (and rightfully so) on Benny and T.D. Jakes, but I don't think I've ever actually heard him say anyting postive about Pentecostal leaders.

ghbearman, thanks for the quote. The man's worse than a charlaten, he's a heretic. I guess I'll be ducking from the HGMG now.

Benny Hinn = Cthulhu by Princeps (http://www.geocities.com/princepsaugustus/)
http://mysite.freeserve.com/stuartrichards/images/1-picture6.gif

[Freak]

Please do not misunderstand me. I believe Benny Hinn is dead wrong on some issues but regarding the essentials of the Christian faith--he is orthodox.

He embraces the triune nature of God, the deity of Jesus Christ, justification by faith, the inerrancy of Scripture, the sinfulness of man, and the future resurrection of the just and unjust.

Yes, he espouses some very unusual elements that must be dismissed but as believers in Christ we should take the attitude of Paul:

Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.
It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Benny Hinn preaches the deity of Jesus, His death, burial, and bodily resurrection in his meetings and God honors His Gospel. Many have come to Christ through his meetings and I rejoice.

Though I am not a pentecostal or a charismatic...I do rejoice in how God has used this man to share the Gospel and to pray for the sick.

[bar Jonah]

Yesterday @ 06:30 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=49858#post49858)
Freak:

Please do not misunderstand me. I believe Benny Hinn is dead wrong on some issues but regarding the essentials of the Christian faith--he is orthodox.

He embraces the triune nature of God, the deity of Jesus Christ, justification by faith, the inerrancy of Scripture, the sinfulness of man, and the future resurrection of the just and unjust.

Yes, he espouses some very unusual elements that must be dismissed but as believers in Christ we should take the attitude of Paul:

Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.
It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Benny Hinn preaches the deity of Jesus, His death, burial, and bodily resurrection in his meetings and God honors His Gospel. Many have come to Christ through his meetings and I rejoice.

Though I am not a pentecostal or a charismatic...I do rejoice in how God has used this man to share the Gospel and to pray for the sick.
Yes, and scripture tells us that some evil men will preach God's word, and at least it's a good thing that in such situations, God's word is preached. But that doesn't change the fact that Hinn is either mentally unbalanced or a criminal fraud. Either way, he should not be trusted as a teacher or a preacher. He should be rejected, and his false nature exposed.

[flipper]

He's in Col. Springs on July 18.

I think I might just go. Full account will be published heah if I do.

Oooh! Maybe I'll claim to have been cured of some bogus disease, just so's I can get up on stage!

I bet that would go some way to discrediting him. I'm with Hank Hannegraaf on this one. Benny Hinn is a very bad man. In fact, he's one of the worst kinds - a bad man who believes he's a very good one.

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 09:01 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=50718#post50718)
flipper:

He's in Col. Springs on July 18.

I think I might just go. Full account will be published heah if I do.

Oooh! Maybe I'll claim to have been cured of some bogus disease, just so's I can get up on stage!

I bet that would go some way to discrediting him. I'm with Hank Hannegraaf on this one. Benny Hinn is a very bad man. In fact, he's one of the worst kinds - a bad man who believes he's a very good one.

Well at least maintain and honest skeptism. The Bible does say, "the first to present his case seems right until another comes forth and challenges him." As much as I'm in agreement with the anti-bennies I would still hear out a defense for him.

[Socrates]

I wrote:
Hanegraaff is a charismatic Christian himself, so his objections can't be dismissed as anti-pentecostal prejudice.

Jin-Roh objected:
Serious? I usually hear him do nothing but critisize pentecostal pratice. He doesn't come down on "slain in the spirit" stuff as bad as he does (and rightfully so) on Benny and T.D. Jakes, but I don't think I've ever actually heard him say anyting postive about Pentecostal leaders.Yes, I am serious. Hanegraaf is down on ABUSES of pentecostalism. But in his capacity as head of CRI, he can't take a denominational stand on Pentecostalism.

A leading Pentecostal in my country, Philip Powell, is a staunch opponent of cessationism, but is strongly against the "health'n'wealth"/"name it and claim it"/"word of faith" abuses. He is one of the leaders of Christian Witness Ministries (http://www.christian-witness.org/actwelcum.html)

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 11:51 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=50778#post50778)
Socrates:
A leading Pentecostal in my country, Philip Powell, is a staunch opponent of cessationism, but is strongly against the "health'n'wealth"/"name it and claim it"/"word of faith" abuses. He is one of the leaders of Christian Witness Ministries (http://www.christian-witness.org/actwelcum.html)
Blab-it-and-grab-it. :lol:

[Bill the Cat]

Well, as a youth minister in the International Pentecostal Holiness Church, I can say that my denomination speaks out against the say it and spray it.... oh sorry, name it and claim it theology.

[flipper]

Jin-Roh:

Well at least maintain and honest skeptism. The Bible does say, "the first to present his case seems right until another comes forth and challenges him." As much as I'm in agreement with the anti-bennies I would still hear out a defense for him.

I'm a bit of an amateur Hinnologist because I do watch a lot of TBN (in fact, that's about the only TV I do watch these days - TBN and cartoons).

I don't get bent out of shape over his occasional unbiblical excursions.

What I do care about are the string of exposures of the bogus nature of his healings. This has been well documented, by Christian organisations as well as the Satanically motivated secular media.

I care about raising the hopes of the desperate, and then dashing them, or worse, unrealistically fulfilling their expectations.

Benny Hinn, indirectly, has a fairly sizeable body count of people who believed sincerely that they were healed of cancer (an illusion he encouraged) and died of their apparently cured disease months later.

I've heard his side. I've watched him showboating on his show. Every time the secular media does an expose on Pastor B, TBN goes into damage control mode. The show he devoted to his Mexican orphanage was particularly entertaining while, at the same time, being quite infuriating.

A charitable interpretation would be that he is quite delusional. He claims to be channeling Lord-like powers, more likely he is Liar or Lunatic.

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 09:29 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=51060#post51060)
flipper:
I'm a bit of an amateur Hinnologist because I do watch a lot of TBN (in fact, that's about the only TV I do watch these days - TBN and cartoons).
This has got to be the single most hilarious thing I've ever seen you say, Flipper! I love it! :thumb: :rofl:

[Woman]

TBN and cartoons!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[papabryant]

Benny " I'm blowing the Holy Spirit on you, but the spittle will cost you extra." Hinn is dangerous!!

On his own website there are clips where he announced that Jesus would appear on stage with him, in Nairobi, Kenya and Nashville, Tenn. Of course Jesus was a no show. :hrm:

He reports visions where Jesus stands before him, copying his every move, as if he and the Lord were playing Groucho and Harpo in the mirror scene in Duck Soup.:no:

He has stated on numerous occasions that he goes to the graves of Katherine Kuhlman and Aimee Semple McPherson to RECHARGE the Holy Spirit. :eek: This smacks of necromancy!

Although most likely, given the claims of money grubbing that comes out of that ministry, all the parlor tricks played there are just show to bilk people out of their money, the possibility does exist that there is more here than meets the eye. If the dispensationalists are right, Hinn could be one of those who could "decieve the very elect".

At best Hinn is making little old ladies eat dogfood while he buys cars with their money; at worst, there are demonic forces afoot. I'm a Pentacostal, and I say he should be combatted with all the vigor as we spend on combatting know-nothing atheists. Perhaps more - its people like Hinn that give atheists ammunition to use.

Peace, Tom

[Woman]

Yes Benny is dangerous! For non-Christians he's just good joke fodder, but for righteous believers he's a terrible detriment.

What I want to know is why does Trinity Broadcasting Network allow him air time? I know everything is a business these days and they probably get a percent of his blood money, but can't they see how much harm he does to the entire Christian body?

Freak, I'm not a bit surprised you would speak up for him. I consider you dangerous too. But aside from those fake exorcisms that you film and then sell on video - you're not nearly as entertaining.

Benny has just got more weird ideas per square inch of brain than most nuts. Hey, maybe ya could heal him Freak?

The boy ain't right.

:no:

[Socrates]

Yes, well, Trinity Broadcasting Network is part of the problem. They don't even live up to their name, since they promote Modalists.

[Woman]

Soc
Yes, well, Trinity Broadcasting Network is part of the problem. They don't even live up to their name, since they promote Modalists.

I could look it up, but it's late and you've nothing better to do. What are Modalists? From your context I'm guessing non-Trinitarians?

[Jin-Roh]

Yesterday @ 02:20 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=64944#post64944)
Woman:

Soc


I could look it up, but it's late and you've nothing better to do. What are Modalists? From your context I'm guessing non-Trinitarians?


Modalism is the belief that God existed first as the father, than as the Son, and now as the Holy Spirit.

T.D. Jakes is a modalist, although I swear I read a transcription of him preaching on the Trinity. It bothers me that so many people I know consider him to be this "mighty man of God" and stuff. Good teachers are sound teachers. I don't care how much you sweat when you preach.

You cand find more stuff on modalsim here. (http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm)

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 12:16 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66431#post66431)
Jin-Roh:
Modalism is the belief that God existed first as the father, than as the Son, and now as the Holy Spirit.

T.D. Jakes is a modalist, although I swear I read a transcription of him preaching on the Trinity. It bothers me that so many people I know consider him to be this "mighty man of God" and stuff. Good teachers are sound teachers. I don't care how much you sweat when you preach.

You cand find more stuff on modalsim here. (http://www.carm.org/heresy/modalism.htm)
On a related note, I find it equally disappointed (and dare I say even a little disturbing) that wonderfully founded Christian organizations such as Promise Keepers have in recent years begun to compromise the truth by holding up such heretics as "Bishop" Jakes as teachers at their events. (Not to mention their compromising in their statement of faith to appease the Catholic Church, and knowingly catering to Mormons.)

[Woman]

Jin-Roh,

Thank-you!

:thumb:

[papabryant]

Today @ 05:08 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66677#post66677)
RightIdea:


On a related note, I find it equally disappointed (and dare I say even a little disturbing) that wonderfully founded Christian organizations such as Promise Keepers have in recent years begun to compromise the truth by holding up such heretics as "Bishop" Jakes as teachers at their events. (Not to mention their compromising in their statement of faith to appease the Catholic Church, and knowingly catering to Mormons.)

I'm not so sure you should be disappointed, my friend.

People here can argue Preterism v.s. Dispensationalism, but one thing the Dispies note is a rise in heretical teaching and dismissal of sound doctrine (as defined by core teachings like the Trinity). It is one of the supposed reasons for the Rapture - to remove believers before they are fully corrupted. And given the rise in heretics of all types, from Hinn to Spong, the Dispies may be on to something here.

Food for thought...:teeth:

Peace, Tom:yipee:

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 02:08 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66677#post66677)
RightIdea:


On a related note, I find it equally disappointed (and dare I say even a little disturbing) that wonderfully founded Christian organizations such as Promise Keepers have in recent years begun to compromise the truth by holding up such heretics as "Bishop" Jakes as teachers at their events. (Not to mention their compromising in their statement of faith to appease the Catholic Church, and knowingly catering to Mormons.)


That's really sad. PK is (was) a good organization.
But appeaseing Mormons and the RCC? How? No wild rumors please.

And Woman, you're welcome.

[Jin-Roh]

Today @ 02:16 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66691#post66691)
papabryant:



I'm not so sure you should be disappointed, my friend.

People here can argue Preterism v.s. Dispensationalism, but one thing the Dispies note is a rise in heretical teaching and dismissal of sound doctrine (as defined by core teachings like the Trinity). It is one of the supposed reasons for the Rapture - to remove believers before they are fully corrupted. And given the rise in heretics of all types, from Hinn to Spong, the Dispies may be on to something here.

Food for thought...:teeth:

Peace, Tom:yipee:

But stuff like that doesn't deal with God's nature though. The Trinity does.

[papabryant]

Yesterday @ 07:08 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=66781#post66781)
Jin-Roh:



But stuff like that doesn't deal with God's nature though. The Trinity does.

I'm not sure I follow you. Can you elaborate?

Peace, Tom

[Rubia Warren]

I'm a modalist, and even I know that T.D. Jakes is a trinitarian. I heard all the hubub, too, but he says himself that he's not oneness.
Now, back to TBN.....the pink cotton candy hair lady (what's her name? Jan, or something?) should be enough to explain why they let Hinn on the air.:no:

[Woman]

La Rubia bonita,


If you send me your address I swear I'll send you a check!


Your post made me laugh so hard my stomach hurts. I had forgotten about Jan of the pink hair. Oh thank-you. And apologies to any who are fans...

[Rubia Warren]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[papabryant]

:lol: :teeth: :lol: :rofl:

[Jin-Roh]

I'm not sure I follow you. Can you elaborate?

Peace, Tom

When we are dealing with stuff like Dispensentionalism, Calvinism, and the like it's all dealing with, for lack of a better term, peripheral issues. Like, is our future determined or not. Do OT promises still extend to the national Israel or not, etc etc.

But they all stay within the same boundaries of who God is (God is a spirit, Christ is Divine, the Holy Spirit is a person, and the Trinity), this is more serious stuff, and scripture isn't exactly 'gray' in these areas.

Modalism *might* make sense except that Christ is seen praying several times through out the Bible and referred to God as his Father. Obviously, he was praying to someone and he can't be his own Father, and the Father and the Son existed at the same time. Additionally, references to "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" are made throughout the rest of the New Testament, not just the Holy Spirit.

If Modalism is the case, then Jesus had no one to pray to, Stephan couldn't have prayed to Jesus since Jesus had now become the Holy Spirit (see acts), and the writers of the NT wouldn't continously refer to all three.

Sorry. I guess that's a little more than you expected huh?
:hrm:

[papabryant]

Yesterday @ 05:58 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=68151#post68151)
Jin-Roh:



When we are dealing with stuff like Dispensentionalism, Calvinism, and the like it's all dealing with, for lack of a better term, peripheral issues. Like, is our future determined or not. Do OT promises still extend to the national Israel or not, etc etc.

But they all stay within the same boundaries of who God is (God is a spirit, Christ is Divine, the Holy Spirit is a person, and the Trinity), this is more serious stuff, and scripture isn't exactly 'gray' in these areas.

Modalism *might* make sense except that Christ is seen praying several times through out the Bible and referred to God as his Father. Obviously, he was praying to someone and he can't be his own Father, and the Father and the Son existed at the same time. Additionally, references to "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" are made throughout the rest of the New Testament, not just the Holy Spirit.

If Modalism is the case, then Jesus had no one to pray to, Stephan couldn't have prayed to Jesus since Jesus had now become the Holy Spirit (see acts), and the writers of the NT wouldn't continously refer to all three.

Sorry. I guess that's a little more than you expected huh?
:hrm:

Well... Yea, it was, but I don't disagree with you. :thumb:

My point was simply the fact that heretical teachings are SOOOO prevalent nowadays (and I think you and I would agree they are) that Dispies like LaHaye, Walvoord, Lindsey, etc., cite this as proof that we are close to the Lord's appearance.

I think they have a point. While there have been heretical movements in every century, within the last 75-100 years the number of these movements have grown. Couple this with the growth of Eastern religions (which are dying in their native countries), the growth of secularism in the Western world, and the general hostility towards Judeo-Christian values and religious expression, and it is easy to see how this COULD be interpreted in eschatological terms.

That doesn't mean the Dispies are right. The rise of modalist teachings could simply be due to the general lack of discipleship efforts in Churches worldwide and the lack of Biblical literacy. (Did you see Jay Leno last night? In his "Jaywalking" segment he asked questions concerning Easter, and the answers weren't funny. "Jesus hid eggs to give us food in lean times." - "Yes, the bunny is in the Old Testament." - It wasn't funny at all. :argh: ) Likewise the popularity of dangerous goofs like Hinn could just be due to a charismatic personality.

But there also could be more there. It does not surprize me in the least that something so obvious as the Triune nature of God, it's fingerprints all over the Bible, is rejected in this day and time by so many. Regardless of whether its a sign of Jesus' return or not, it must be fought, because it is leading people away from God.

Some doctrinal differences make no difference. Who gives a hoot whether Mary rose to heaven or died and was buried; your relationship to her Son is the important thing. But these bigger issues, like oneness teachings, can and do affect relationships with God. How do we fight them?

Peace, my friend,:angel:
Tom

[bar Jonah]

Papa, careful, you're kind of falling into that common fallacy of lumping all of a group together as if they're the same... Some dispies believe the End is near. And some don't know and/or don't care. Frankly, I'm in the latter category. Far as I'm concerned, it could happen in 5 minutes, or in a thousand years. Although we have been told about signs, I believe those signs will only truly be understood in retrospect, with "20/20 hindsight." I am highly skeptical of the idea that anyone can accurately predict when it will happen, even in general terms. (Which isn't to say that someone couldn't get it right by random chance.)

And as I said, I don't care. It shouldn't affect our spiritual lives, or the way we daily live.

[Blake Reas]

I bet benny Hinn would be an Open View theist!

Blake

[Bill the Cat]

I agree Right Idea. I am a dispie and don't really care if it happens before I finish typin.....

[Bill the Cat]

g. Just kidding :rofl: Seriously, what's so bad about TD? I really like to listen to him. At least he doesn't equate blessings with money like the aptly named Creflo and Taffy DOLLAR $$$$$

I used to like Rod Parsley too until he got too showey.

[Rubia Warren]

Nothing... as I said before, he's not a modalist, he's a trinitarian.
You guys can say all you want to say about modalism:ahem: you won't get a big debate out of me... I don't come here for that. But to say that a modalist is not close to God.... SHAME on you.:rant:

[Rubia Warren]

04-15-2003 @ 04:58 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=68151#post68151)
Jin-Roh:



When we are dealing with stuff like Dispensentionalism, Calvinism, and the like it's all dealing with, for lack of a better term, peripheral issues. Like, is our future determined or not. Do OT promises still extend to the national Israel or not, etc etc.

But they all stay within the same boundaries of who God is (God is a spirit, Christ is Divine, the Holy Spirit is a person, and the Trinity), this is more serious stuff, and scripture isn't exactly 'gray' in these areas.

Modalism *might* make sense except that Christ is seen praying several times through out the Bible and referred to God as his Father. Obviously, he was praying to someone and he can't be his own Father, and the Father and the Son existed at the same time. Additionally, references to "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" are made throughout the rest of the New Testament, not just the Holy Spirit.

If Modalism is the case, then Jesus had no one to pray to, Stephan couldn't have prayed to Jesus since Jesus had now become the Holy Spirit (see acts), and the writers of the NT wouldn't continously refer to all three.

Sorry. I guess that's a little more than you expected huh?
:hrm:


:eek: Must..........resist............the urge..............:argh: :argh: :teeth: :lol: (j/k)

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

La Rubia

um, can a heretic be close to God or not?

from Guy

[Rubia Warren]

I don't know, gh....YOU tell ME.

[bar Jonah]

Today @ 06:47 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=70800#post70800)
ghbearman:

La Rubia

um, can a heretic be close to God or not?

from Guy
Depends on what definition of heretic you're using. Some people use the term to include any Christian brother or sister who has significantly different theological views. For example, because some members of the GODISNOWHERE Ministry here in Denver are open theists, certain respected apologetics ministry leaders and other Christian opinion leaders here in Denver have openly called us heretics.

And yet, they also turned around and said we are Christian brothers, and on one occasion or another (rarely), they were willing to work with us or recommend our apologetics seminar to churches. THAT definition of heretic doesn't make the least bit of sense to me.

I believe a much more appropriate definition of heretic is someone whose theological views are so far off that they cannot, by definition, be considered a Christian. And therefore, obviously, under that definition, such a person calnnot be close to God. I definitely put Benny Hinn in this category. Not only are his views heretical, but he is a con man and a liar.

[Joe Corleone]

NNNNNNNuuuuuh DIE..... you den of Dell obsessed cross-eyed demonic unbelievers! Soooooooooooooo this is what goes on behind by backside eh? I was just telling Paul (Croutch not de Jonge) and Jan about you bunch of theology addict hellbound heretics the other day while we were doing their show live. I'm warning you people...I have the annointing on me today like never before...so watch yourself, suckers! And on top of that I'm wearing my brand new imported silver shiny bighair straight from Salon de Evangelion in gay Paree. My...my suit is whiter and purer than a thousand virgins....the seats in my fleet of stretch limos have more leather than all of Job's cattle and asses combined....And if I have need of more limos and more salary and more houses and more anything really, then all I gotta do is say it and it will come to pass. You will not see me driving a Ford Escort around the midwest and groveling around some silly preterian Presbyterian website arguing theology with a bunch of avatars. Seelah mendonikeial baadolinium Gababba cooterbubba! I know who you are, and I will be watching.

[Joe Corleone]

I was just telling Jan last night that we were gonna have to do something about this website, but I see you beat me to it. PTL Benny! Pass me that HG machine gun and stand back while I mow a few of these Post Millennial unbelievers down. If we can raise dead pet chickens in Costa Rica and do supernatural gold dentistry right here in the US and Canada, then we oughta be able to handle this bunch of burned out preterian perverts. Why are you crying Jan? C'mon now, honeyrabbit..times a-wasting. These yoyos have asked for it time after time. Get Kenny Boy Copeland on the cell phone and tell him we may need him to say us up reinforcements in case this Dee Dee huzzy shows up....

[Jin-Roh]

Heretic
1. One who holds to a heresy; one who believes some doctrine contrary to the established faith or prevailing religion.

[Rubia Warren]

:ahem:

[Warcraft3]

I dont think the problem is Benny Hinn, I think the problem is Christians. See the thing is since miracles are very rare in peoples lives they feel like they have to go to a goofball like Hinn to see something real. And miracles are rare because we arent ready to actually do them. People either believe miracles arent for today( which all the atheists Ive ever met think is a copout) or they say that miracles ARE happening and then point you to some pathetic example of a "real" miracle.

Notice that 95% of the supernatural gifts in the church are either "tounges" or "prophesying" (notice that these two are the easiest ones to fake and the most difficult ones to confirm) and the other gifts are rarely seen (indeed the gifts of miracles and healing are pretty much unheard of).

This should be obvious to people but it isnt. When I have spoken to people on this matter they always say" Well I cant speak for anyone else but MY speaking in tounges and prophesying is the real thing." ---------------Yeah sure it is bud. And that what EVERY SINGLE person who does it says to me.

So am I to believe that out of a church body (for example) of say 200 people that there are 80 people who speak in tounges and prophesy and ALL the other gifts are *just not being expressed*? Sound familiar?

Ive been to many churches and services where almost EVERY SINGLE PERSON had the two gifts of "tounges" and "prophesy" and NOT ONE PERSON and I mean not one single person had the gift of healing or miracles. This should be an indication that the tounges and prophesy that are currently expressed in the church are little more than strong emotions and good intentions.

The way to get rid of people like Benny Hinn is for Christians to pray for God to use them in the supernatural (none of this *well thats not for me *garbage or *well I just dont feel like I have that gift* excuse). Of course there is alot of stuff that comes along with praying that prayer so we must be prepared to pay the price for spiritual authority.

And the price is high.


Russ


:em7:

[Rubia Warren]

Wow. That was a really good post, steadele.

[Warcraft3]

La Rubia:

Thanks for the positive responce. I used to try to keep silent on this issue since I usually end up offending people or having people try to convince me why "their" experience is real. But after talking to alot of skeptics and atheists (many of whom are very close friends) I realized that this is a really big problem within the church which needs to be addressed. But many people are really sensitive about this issue ( indeed I used to "speak in tounges" myself, until I realized that what I was doing was not the real thing-----just as a side note though I did have a real encounter with tounges when I was about 13, but it was a alot different than what I hear people describe ) so I never know how they are going to react.

I appreciate your kind words.


Russ

:rockon:

[Rubia Warren]

I get your drift, totally. Although I believe my experience is real (hehe- here I go now!), I see a lot of things happening that I think people are doing themselves, and not realizing it. But you brought up some very good questions about healings and miracles, and why people aren't having that gift. I have often wondered about that myself.
I see nothing wrong with a charismatic worship at all... if it's coming from somebody's heart, and they wanna shout out to God, or cry, or whatever, I think it's all good.... but many times, I have seen people get really worked up and then claim that God did something, and it clearly was them. The mind can play tricks on you, and it is important to keep things in perspective, you know?
Steadele, I would be very interested to hear what your experience was like at 13, as opposed to what goes on with people today. I think I could learn something. If you don't want to post it publicly, would you tell me in a pm?
Take care,
:rubia:

[nomad]

steadale... preach it! there are others who feel the same way (and yes, i do believe tongues and the other gifts are for today).

i just wanted to add that the church hasn't learned anything from this either...

one of the 'problems' with tongues, i think, was that people thought they could 'teach' it to you. how do you 'teach' something that only the holy spirit can give? and i was told to 'practice' it. again, how does practice help? in the NT it was just WHAM! you're speaking in tongues. and though i have 'spoken in tongues' for a long time, i am a bit suspicious of my own experience. (i cannot and will not try to speak for anyone else's experience).

the end result of this, was a lot of people who, IMHO, know how to do something they call 'speaking in tongues', but really isn't. i do believe speaking in tongues IS real, and IS for today, and there are people who do it 'for real' (i judge this by when it first happened to them, how it happened to them, my judgments for or against could be wrong). but i also believe (yes i said believe, this is not an absolute statement) there are a large number of people who will never get the real thing, because they already think they have it.


now, how does this apply to the church today? well, the current fad is 'ecstatic worship' or whatever. you know, the 'you shout at football games, you should be shouting louder for the lord!' type stuff.

it almost appears to be the same fallacy. i am hearing things like 'if you really knew, if you could really SEE the greatness of God, praise would just naturally come out of you, you would be jumping up and down and shouting' ok, maybe i can see that, and i know i don't know very well the greatness of God or the depths of my own sin.

but the actions past that seem to say 'well, we KNOW you really love God, so you just must not know how to do it. so we will TEACH you how to worship.' these statements have no continuity.

teach me to know and seek God, not how to clap my hands and shout at the right time during the chorus.

[Rubia Warren]

Hear, hear, nomad. At a church I went to before, the lady next to me would jump up and down and shout, and she always would make comments to me about how I need to become a worshipper..... I was like, "Uhhhh.... how can you tell me how to worship?" People like that think that the more stuff you do, like, God will just get impressed, or something. Unfortunately, much of it is nothing more than pentecostal aerobics, IMO. I think that God likes for someone to worship Him truthfully, and from the heart, even if that means I won't be flippin' any cartwheels or anything. I would rather honestly worship Him than superficially, and if that cuts in on somebody's carnival side show, then so be it. I think that some people really do worship honestly in a more charismatic way, and I don't knock them for that, it's cool with me. It's just different for everybody, and others should not look at someone's style as not enough. Only they and God know what is coming from their heart in honesty, and it is for them to search themselves.
I don't know about tongues.... I don't know if I have seen someone "fake it", although I have met people on the internet who have told me they have... I wouldn't know how to discern in someone else if they are for real or no. But I have known people who did things in church and they claimed God made them do it... at a church I went to before, a lady (they one who jumped a lot) ran a lap around the church and told me that the Holy Ghost told her to...
:huh: I was like, uhhh... okay?:doh: :shrug:

[Rubia Warren]

Posted by nomad:
"now, how does this apply to the church today? well, the current fad is 'ecstatic worship' or whatever. you know, the 'you shout at football games, you should be shouting louder for the lord!' type stuff."

:eek: I've heard that one, too, before.:help:

[bar Jonah]

Pentacostal aerobics... I love it! LOL What a great exercise plan! :lol:

[nomad]

I don't know about tongues.... I don't know if I have seen someone "fake it", although I have met people on the internet who have told me they have...


that's about all you can do. you never really know. and it's not really my place to judge. only God knows the heart; we can see if someone is NOT doing something, but if they are, it's really hard to correctly ascertain motives. i leave that to God, it's really His business not mine anyways. even running around the church, i think it's weird, but you know, unless i can point to bible verses saying 'god doesn't do that', all i am doing is giving an opinion. and if it were me, i'd take God over a man's opinion. i was not there, i cannot say for sure 'the Holy Spirit DID NOT say that to you'. but i can say he sure didn't say it to me ;)

all i know is my own experience, but by looking around i seriously doubt it's unusual. it is, of course, possible that i just don't understand how it REALLY works, and i have been doing it 'correctly' and have just lost faith. but i don't think so. and i think i have done it a few times 'for real'.

if you want to know a little more about why i am suspicious of my own talking in tongues, drop me an email.

[Warcraft3]

Nomad and La Rubia:

Before I post my "experience" with tounges I just wanted to say...... Good Posts!!! I think you what you guys said was right on.

:thumb:

Russ

[Warcraft3]

Okay here is the story of the one and only time in my life when I actually spoke in tounges.......

I was thirteen years old and I was at a youth convention with the assemblies of God in PA. During this time in my life I had been preaching alot and doing other types of ministry as well in several churches in my area. For about six months prior to my attending thsi particular youth rally I had been praying 3 times a day every single day. So my prayer life was in excellent shape during this time. (By the way I believe prayer is something that people DO need to be instructed on, since most prayers never get past the "starting line") Okay anyway.......

During one of the meetings their was an altar call/ worship time going on where thousands of people lined the front of the stage. I stayed in my seat and just prayed and worshiped to myself. While I was standing there the youth leader of my church came over to me and told me he believed I would speak in tounges that day. I told him "thats nice, but I dont WANT to speak in tounges anyway". He just smiled and told me to keep worshiping. I just kind of ignored the comment and said okay.

Now as I was worshiping something very strange happened. I would try to say a phrase like "Praise God" or "Thank you" or "Hallelujah" or something like that.....you get the idea. But one time when I tried to say something another word of the exact same length and number of syllables came out of my mouth. Now I want to stress this point... I WAS NOT CONTROLLING THE WAY MY MOUTH MOVED during this time. I had control to initiate and stop movement and I also supplied the sound, but SOMETHING WAS PHYSICALLY MOVING MY MOUTH A DIFFERENT WAY. And I could actually FEEL it physically forcing my mouth to move differently than I had intended.

The first time this happened I opened my eyes in surprise and said "wow that was really weird" and my youth pastor told me to not be startled and just continue praying. So I did.

In all I said about 5 words in tounges. Just 5. After six months of earnest prayer 3 times a day, and after seeing other supernatural events take place in my life my "tounges" experience consisted of no more than 5 words which werent even heard by anyone but me. Was there an interpretation? No there wasnt. Was one needed? No, because I did not say these things loud enough to be heard and also because I would describe the experience as more "praying" in tounges than really "speaking" in it.

After I had said the fifth word in "tounges" I sensed something different in the room so I opened my eyes. I looked and all around me people were laying on the floor, my youth pastor told me that after I said the last word people just fell down around me. What does that mean? LOL how should I know?

But that is what happened. I have never truly spoken or prayed in tounges before or since this event.


Russ
:juggle:

[Rubia Warren]

That's cool, steadele!
My experiences were quite similar, except that I asked for it, and had been wanting to for a long time. To make a long story short, I went to a youth rally, and it happened there. My mouth started trembling... like how your jaw chatters when you are outside and it's freezing cold.... except it was more than that... and it was so consistently moving-oh! I don't know how to describe it. I have no idea what I said, but it was very short, also.

[Jin-Roh]

Yeah good words Steadele. My experience with tounges was similiar to yours, although nobody fell to the ground around me.

I'll admit though, praying in tounges is something I do very sparingly. I don't know why.
:shrug:

[markporter]

one of the 'problems' with tongues, i think, was that people thought they could 'teach' it to you. how do you 'teach' something that only the holy spirit can give? and i was told to 'practice' it. again, how does practice help? in the NT it was just WHAM! you're speaking in tongues. and though i have 'spoken in tongues' for a long time, i am a bit suspicious of my own experience. (i cannot and will not try to speak for anyone else's experience).


you serious? people really tried teaching it?

[Rubia Warren]

Today @ 07:53 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=243660#post243660)
markporter:



you serious? people really tried teaching it?
Yeah, many people offer tips on how to do it or get it going..... you can even get books and little booklets that give you techniques and stuff down at the Family Christian Bookstore.

[Bill the Cat]

04-23-2003 @ 11:03 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=77184#post77184)
La Rubia:

That's cool, steadele!
My experiences were quite similar, except that I asked for it, and had been wanting to for a long time. To make a long story short, I went to a youth rally, and it happened there. My mouth started trembling... like how your jaw chatters when you are outside and it's freezing cold.... except it was more than that... and it was so consistently moving-oh! I don't know how to describe it. I have no idea what I said, but it was very short, also.

Man rubes, you sound just like me there. That's exactly what happened to me. Before anyone accuses me or anyone of faking it, I had never seen it happen like this before it happened to me.

[Queen]

I had no idea who Benny Hinn was.....so I browsed the NET.

Scary little fellow that Benny Hinn....IMHO

:eek:

But hey, I think I scare people as well.. :grin: ...freedom of speech:popcorn: .

But spreading hate is wrong....always.....again MHO..of course.

Lots of love and sunshine,
Queen

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I met Benny Hinn (a local boy from Tel Aviv-Jaffa; there's a substantial Arab Christian community in Old Jaffa) back in early 1992 when he came here with a rather large group. I was working as a security guard/medic with a local company & we provided security at the Jerusalem Convention Center where Rev. Hinn was going to be. He was introduced to the security staff before the revival (?) & when he was introduced to me & was told that I was doubling as the medic-on-call, he shook my hand & said, "Well sir, we won't be needing your services tonight; there are going to be miracles here!" I thought, "OK..." He put on quite a show, that's the word I'll use. Everyone in the audience were either people who had signed up to come with him from the USA or local (Arab) Christians. Some of my native Israeli colleagues were in shock as Rev. Hinn did his stuff; they had never seen anything like it. He spoke about the late Kathryn Kuhlman, whom he had seen once in (my home town of) Pittsburgh, & from whom, I gather, he has learned/copied much. One thing he said sticks out in my mind (such as it is). He said that he was so excited to see her for the first time that when the doors opened at the hall where she was appearing, he pushed & barrelled past everyone and ran down to get a seat in the first row. I remember thinking he was such a heel & that he should have, rather, helped sick and elderly people to find seats rather than shoving past everyone to get one of the best seats for himself. I was not impressed.

Be well!

ssv :hi:

[Rubia Warren]

Wow. So, didya see any healings or anything at all like that?

[Jin-Roh]

Or one should ask, did you find out any alleged healings didn't turn out that way?

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I didn't see any miracles at all. No throwing away crutches or anything like that.

Be well!

ssv :hi:

[robert65]

In my own experience having been raised in the Pentecostal church I never questioned any of the things like tongues until just recently. During a water baptismal service they had prayer with some of the teens that were being baptised that night. Some of the adults that were praying with the teens began to push them and tell them to push it out. When some of the teens said they didn't want to speak in tongues they were told they weren't hungry enough to be baptised. That was about enough for me. Now when I see or hear about guy like Benny I really am starting to look hard at the tongues, prophacy, miracles stuff.

[Bill the Cat]

Today @ 09:15 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=253160#post253160)
robert65:

In my own experience having been raised in the Pentecostal church I never questioned any of the things like tongues until just recently. During a water baptismal service they had prayer with some of the teens that were being baptised that night. Some of the adults that were praying with the teens began to push them and tell them to push it out. When some of the teens said they didn't want to speak in tongues they were told they weren't hungry enough to be baptised. That was about enough for me. Now when I see or hear about guy like Benny I really am starting to look hard at the tongues, prophacy, miracles stuff.

Don't let idiots like them speak for all tongue speakers. I would never force someone to try to speak in tongues.

1. That's not how it's done
2. Not all can speak in tongues
3. It is not some symbol of "Holier than thou" uch to those idiots' chagrin
4. You can't push it out. It happens when the Spirit gives utterance, not the speaker.


Stupidity like that, sadly, can only be taught, and the Pastor is responsible. Find a church that does believe in the Gifts, but uses them properly, but never give up belief in them.

[robert65]

Bill the Cat:

Don't let idiots like them speak for all tongue speakers. I would never force someone to try to speak in tongues.

1. That's not how it's done
2. Not all can speak in tongues
3. It is not some symbol of "Holier than thou" uch to those idiots' chagrin
4. You can't push it out. It happens when the Spirit gives utterance, not the speaker.


Stupidity like that, sadly, can only be taught, and the Pastor is responsible. Find a church that does believe in the Gifts, but uses them properly, but never give up belief in them.

I'm begining to look hard at what happens now. It was an eye opening experience. I'm looking for a church.

[Bill the Cat]

PM me and I may be able to help you. I am a Youth Pastor in Virginia for the IPHC www.iphc.org and I could get you in touch with a local conference where you are.