Another Question for Barryrob

[Trout]

In another thread you posted this regarding the NWT:



As accurate as it is possible for our scholars to get using what is available to us with all the 1,000s of manuscripts that are on hand today and using the relevant information therein to interpret itself (within text e.g. we do not except that the Trinity can be found within Biblical manuscripts), staying within the bounds of manuscript doctrines and ideas with the help from God’s Holy Spirit. The NWT is not inspired as non-are today, it was only the original Manuscript (or 1st by the penman himself) that was inspired which has long since gone from then on we have copies.

Barryrob

1) How do you know the NWT is "as accurate as possible", are you trained in Biblical languages?

2) Which manuscripts did the NWT translators use?

3) You claim that the Trinity cannot be found in the manuscripts used to translate the NWT, how did that preconceived notion influence the NWT?

[barryrob]

Questoon 2 NWT TEXTS:-

Taken from 'All Scripture is Inspired and Benefical' published by Jehovah's Christian Witnesses
Sources for the Text of the New World Translation—Hebrew Scriptures

Original Hebrew Writings and Early Copies

Aramaic Targums

Dead Sea Scrolls

Samaritan Pentateuch

Greek Septuagint

Old Latin

Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian

Hebrew Consonantal Text

Latin Vulgate

Greek Versions—Aquila, Theodotion, Symmachus

Syriac Peshitta

Masoretic Text

Cairo Codex

Petersburg Codex of the Prophets

Aleppo Codex

Ginsburg’s Hebrew Text

Codex Leningrad B 19A

Biblia Hebraica (BHK), Biblia Hebraica

Stuttgartensia (BHS)

New World Translation

Hebrew Scriptures—English; From English Into Many Other Modern Languages

[Diagram on page 309]

(For fully formatted text, see publication)

Sources for the Text of the New World Translation—Christian Greek Scriptures

Original Greek Writings and Early Copies

Armenian Version

Coptic Versions

Syriac Versions—Curetonian, Philoxenian, Harclean,

Palestinian, Sinaitic, Peshitta

Old Latin

Latin Vulgate

Sixtine and Clementine Revised Latin Texts

Greek Cursive MSS.

Erasmus Text

Stephanus Text

Textus Receptus

Griesbach Greek Text

Emphatic Diaglott

Papyri—(e.g., Chester Beatty P45, P46, P47; Bodmer P66, P74,

P75)

Early Greek Uncial MSS.—Vatican 1209 (B), Sinaitic (א),

Alexandrine (A), Ephraemi Syri rescriptus (C), Bezae (D)

Westcott and Hort Greek Text

Bover Greek Text

Merk Greek Text

Nestle-Aland Greek Text

United Bible Societies Greek Text

23 Hebrew Versions (14th-20th centuries), translated

either from the Greek or from the Latin Vulgate, using

Tetragrammaton for divine name

New World Translation

Christian Greek Scriptures—English; From English Into Many Other Modern Languages

Barryrob

[barryrob]

1) How do you know the NWT is "as accurate as possible", are you trained in Biblical languages?





My own personal research over 30yrs. No I am not trained in Biblical languages but then neither where the first followers of Jesus:-



Acts 4:13 "Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. And they began to recognize about them that they used to be with Jesus."

But that did not stop them from being able to see what is true or right and what is not so. But that is not the most important thing, I see what it teaches working in solving major problem that the worlds religious or political endeavours fail to do, so I see it as Truth and Love in action as a product of what it says when it is followed:-



Matthew 11:19) . . .All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works."



The works it engenders in those who follow it are a proof of the truth what it contains.




Barryrob

[barryrob]

3) You claim that the Trinity cannot be found in the manuscripts used to translate the NWT, how did that preconceived notion influence the NWT?



Before the WNT was produced we printed the KJV upon which most of our theology was based.



The ideas of any translator will have an influence on the rendering they will produce, so if one has Trinitarians leaning then this will be reflected in what is produced and otherwise.



We must also be aware that preconceived ideas do not change the ancient texts only the translating of them, is that not so?

Barryrob

[Trout]

Questoon 2 NWT TEXTS:-

Taken from 'All Scripture is Inspired and Benefical' published by Jehovah's Christian Witnesses
Sources for the Text of the New World Translation—Hebrew Scriptures

Original Hebrew Writings and Early Copies

Aramaic Targums

Dead Sea Scrolls

Samaritan Pentateuch

Greek Septuagint

Old Latin

Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian

Hebrew Consonantal Text

Latin Vulgate

Greek Versions—Aquila, Theodotion, Symmachus

Syriac Peshitta

Masoretic Text

Cairo Codex

Petersburg Codex of the Prophets

Aleppo Codex

Ginsburg’s Hebrew Text

Codex Leningrad B 19A

Biblia Hebraica (BHK), Biblia Hebraica

Stuttgartensia (BHS)

New World Translation

Hebrew Scriptures—English; From English Into Many Other Modern Languages

[Diagram on page 309]

(For fully formatted text, see publication)

Sources for the Text of the New World Translation—Christian Greek Scriptures

Original Greek Writings and Early Copies

Armenian Version

Coptic Versions

Syriac Versions—Curetonian, Philoxenian, Harclean,

Palestinian, Sinaitic, Peshitta

Old Latin

Latin Vulgate

Sixtine and Clementine Revised Latin Texts

Greek Cursive MSS.

Erasmus Text

Stephanus Text

Textus Receptus

Griesbach Greek Text

Emphatic Diaglott

Papyri—(e.g., Chester Beatty P45, P46, P47; Bodmer P66, P74,

P75)

Early Greek Uncial MSS.—Vatican 1209 (B), Sinaitic (א),

Alexandrine (A), Ephraemi Syri rescriptus (C), Bezae (D)

Westcott and Hort Greek Text

Bover Greek Text

Merk Greek Text

Nestle-Aland Greek Text

United Bible Societies Greek Text

23 Hebrew Versions (14th-20th centuries), translated

either from the Greek or from the Latin Vulgate, using

Tetragrammaton for divine name

New World Translation

Christian Greek Scriptures—English; From English Into Many Other Modern Languages

Barryrob

Can you provide a citation for this information?


trout:
1) How do you know the NWT is "as accurate as possible", are you trained in Biblical languages?

barryrob:
My own personal research over 30yrs.

What works have you studied?


barryrob:
No I am not trained in Biblical languages but then neither where the first followers of Jesus:-

Could it be that they spoke Biblical languages? :ahem:


barryrob:
The works it engenders in those who follow it are a proof of the truth what it contains.

Like those who follow the Koran?

[barryrob]

Can you provide a citation for this information?



What works have you studied?



Could it be that they spoke Biblical languages? :ahem:



Like those who follow the Koran?


Persons who follow the Qur'an will go to War and kill each other persons of their own faith and support act of terror in the name of God as did the religions of Christiandom during WWI & WWII etc..

We will not for any reason we we Love other people. The Qur'an does not teach that Jesus is God's Son which shows it to be out of harmony with The Bible's teachings.
Barryrob

[barryrob]

[QUOTE=troutk13]Can you provide a citation for this information?
The "New World Translation"—Scholarly and Honest



"FULL of falsifications!" Back in the 16th century, that is what opposers said about Martin Luther’s translation of the Bible. They believed they could prove that Luther’s Bible contained "1,400 heretical errors and lies." Today, Luther’s Bible is viewed as a landmark translation. The book Translating the Bible even calls it "a work of genius"!

In this 20th century, the New World Translation has also been charged with falsification. Why? Because it departs from the traditional rendering of many verses and stresses the use of God’s name, Jehovah. Hence, it is unconventional. But does this make it false? No. It was produced with much care and attention to detail, and what may appear unfamiliar represents a sincere effort to represent carefully the nuances of the original languages. Theologian C. Houtman explains the reason for the unorthodoxy of the New World Translation: "Various traditional translations of important terms from the original text have been discarded, apparently in order to arrive at the best possible understanding." Let us consider some examples of this.



Different—But Not Wrong

For one thing, closely related words in the original Bible languages are translated, where possible, by different English words, thus alerting the Bible student to possible different shades of meaning. Thus, syn·te'lei·a is rendered "conclusion" and te'los "end," although both words are translated "end" in many other versions. (Matthew 24:3, 13) The word ko'smos is rendered "world," ai·on' "system of things," and oi·kou·me'ne "inhabited earth." Again, many Bible translations use merely "world" to represent either two or all three of these Greek words, although, in fact, there are differences between them.—Matthew 13:38, 39; 24:14.

Similarly, the New World Translation carefully notes the difference between gno'sis ("knowledge") and e·pi'gno·sis (translated "accurate knowledge")—a difference ignored by many others. (Philippians 1:9; 3:8) It also distinguishes between ta'phos ("grave," an individual burial place), mne'ma ("tomb"), mne·mei'on ("memorial tomb"), and hai'des ("hades," referring in the Bible to the common grave of dead mankind). (Matthew 27:60, 61; John 5:28; Acts 2:29, 31) Several Bible translations distinguish between ta'phos and mne·mei'on at Matthew 23:29 but not consistently elsewhere.—See Matthew 27:60, 61, New International Version.

Verb tenses are carefully and precisely rendered. For example, in the Revised Standard Version, 1 John 2:1 reads: "If any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Shortly after, the same translation renders 1 John 3:6: "No one who abides in [Jesus] sins." If no follower of Jesus sins, how does 1 John 2:1 apply?

The New World Translation resolves this seeming contradiction. At 1 John 2:1, it says: "I am writing you these things that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one." John used the aorist tense in this verse, indicating the committing of an isolated sin, the kind of thing all of us do from time to time because we are imperfect. However, 1 John 3:6 reads: "Everyone remaining in union with him does not practice sin; no one that practices sin has either seen him or come to know him." John here used the present tense, indicating an ongoing, habitual course of sin that would invalidate anyone’s claim to be a Christian.



Other Scholars Agree

Certain unfamiliar terms supposedly invented by Jehovah’s Witnesses are supported by other Bible translations or reference works. At Luke 23:43, the New World Translation records Jesus’ words to the criminal executed with him: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise." In the original Greek, there were no punctuation marks such as commas; but usually some kind of punctuation is inserted by translators to help with the reading. Most, however, make Luke 23:43 read as though Jesus and the criminal were bound for Paradise that very day. The New English Bible reads: "I tell you this: today you shall be with me in Paradise." Not all convey this thought, however. Professor Wilhelm Michaelis renders the verse: "Truly, already today I give you the assurance: (one day) you will be together with me in paradise." This rendering is much more logical than that of The New English Bible. The dying criminal could not have gone with Jesus to Paradise that same day. Jesus was not resurrected until the third day after his death. In the meantime he was in Hades, mankind’s common grave.—Acts 2:27, 31; 10:39, 40.

According to Matthew 26:26 in the New World Translation, Jesus, when instituting the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, says of the bread that he passes to his disciples: "This means my body." Most other translations render this verse: "This is my body," and this is used to support the doctrine that during the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, the bread literally becomes Christ’s flesh. The word translated in the New World Translation as "means" (es·tin', a form of ei·mi') comes from the Greek word meaning "to be," but it can also signify "to mean." Thus, Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament says that this verb "is often i.q. [equivalent to] to denote, signify, import." Indeed, "means" is a logical translation here. When Jesus instituted the Last Supper, his flesh was still on his bones, so how could the bread have been his literal flesh?

At John 1:1 the New World Translation reads: "The Word was a god." In many translations this expression simply reads: "The Word was God" and is used to support the Trinity doctrine. Not surprisingly, Trinitarians dislike the rendering in the New World Translation. But John 1:1 was not falsified in order to prove that Jesus is not Almighty God. Jehovah’s Witnesses, among many others, had challenged the capitalizing of "god" long before the appearance of the New World Translation, which endeavors accurately to render the original language. Five German Bible translators likewise use the term "a god" in that verse. At least 13 others have used expressions such as "of divine kind" or "godlike kind." These renderings agree with other parts of the Bible to show that, yes, Jesus in heaven is a god in the sense of being divine. But Jehovah and Jesus are not the same being, the same God.—John 14:28; 20:17.



God’s Personal Name

At Luke 4:18, according to the New World Translation, Jesus applied to himself a prophecy in Isaiah, saying: "Jehovah’s spirit is upon me." (Isaiah 61:1) Many object to the use of the name Jehovah here. It is, however, just one of the more than 200 places where that name appears in the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, the so-called New Testament. True, no early surviving Greek manuscript of the "New Testament" contains the personal name of God. But the name was included in the New World Translation for sound reasons, not merely on a whim. And others have followed a similar course. In the German language alone, at least 11 versions use "Jehovah" (or the transliteration of the Hebrew, "Yahweh") in the text of the "New Testament," while four translators add the name in parentheses after "Lord." More than 70 German translations use it in footnotes or commentaries.

In Israel, God’s name was pronounced without inhibition for more than a thousand years. It is the name that appears most frequently in the Hebrew Scriptures ("Old Testament"), and there is no convincing proof that it was unknown to the general public or that its pronunciation had been forgotten in the first century of our Common Era, when Jewish Christians were inspired to write the books of the "New Testament."—Ruth 2:4.

Wolfgang Feneberg comments in the Jesuit magazine Entschluss/Offen (April 1985): "He [Jesus] did not withhold his father’s name YHWH from us, but he entrusted us with it. It is otherwise inexplicable why the first petition of the Lord’s Prayer should read: ‘May your name be sanctified!’" Feneberg further notes that "in pre-Christian manuscripts for Greek-speaking Jews, God’s name was not paraphrased with kyrios [Lord], but was written in the tetragram form [YHWH] in Hebrew or archaic Hebrew characters. . . . We find recollections of the name in the writings of the Church Fathers; but they are not interested in it. By translating this name kyrios(Lord), the Church Fathers were more interested in attributing the grandeur of the kyrios to Jesus Christ." The New World Translation restores the name to the text of the Bible wherever there is sound, scholarly reason to do so.—See Appendix 1D in the Reference Bible.

Some criticize the form "Jehovah" by which the New World Translation renders God’s name. In Hebrew manuscripts, the name appears just as four consonants, YHWH, and many insist that the proper pronunciation is "Yahweh," not "Jehovah." Hence, they feel that using "Jehovah" is a mistake. But, in truth, scholars are by no means in agreement that the form "Yahweh" represents the original pronunciation. The fact is that while God preserved the spelling of his name "YHWH" over 6,000 times in the Bible, he did not preserve the pronunciation of it that Moses heard on Mount Sinai. (Exodus 20:2) Therefore, the pronunciation is not of the utmost importance at this time.

In Europe the form "Jehovah" has been widely recognized for centuries and is used in many Bibles, including Jewish translations. It appears countless times on buildings, on coins and other objects, and in printed works, as well as in many church hymns. So rather than trying to represent the original Hebrew pronunciation, the New World Translation in all its different languages uses the form of God’s name that is popularly accepted. This is exactly what other Bible versions do with all the other names in the Bible.



Why the Harsh Criticism?

Luther’s Bible was criticized because it was produced by a man who exposed the shortcomings of the traditional religion of his day. His translation opened the way for ordinary people to see the truth of much of what he said. Similarly, the New World Translation is criticized because it is published by Jehovah’s Witnesses, who outspokenly declare that many of Christendom’s doctrines are not found in the Bible. The New World Translation—indeed, any Bible—makes this evident.

In fact, the New World Translation is a scholarly work. In 1989, Professor Benjamin Kedar of Israel said: "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew. . . . Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain."

Millions of Bible readers worldwide use the New World Translation because it is a modern-language translation that renders Bible terms with accuracy. The entire Bible is now available in 9 languages and the Christian Greek Scriptures alone in an additional 2; it is being prepared in a further 20 tongues. Accurate translation requires years of painstaking work, but we look forward to having the New World Translation eventually appear in all these different languages so that it will help many more to get a better understanding of "the word of life." (Philippians 2:16) Because it has already helped millions to do so, it is truly worthy of recommendation.



[Footnotes]

At Revelation 1:20, German translator Curt Stage rendered the same verb as follows: "The seven lampstands mean [ei·sin'] the seven congregations." Fritz Tillmann and Ludwig Thimme similarly render it "mean" [es·tin'] at Matthew 12:7.

JurgenBecker, Jeremias Felbinger, Oskar Holtzmann, Friedrich Rittelmeyer, and Siegfried Schulz. Emil Bock says, "a divine being." See also the English translations Today’s English Version, The New English Bible, Moffatt, Goodspeed.

Johann Babor, Karl F. Bahrdt, Petrus Dausch, Wilhelm M. L. De Wette, Georg F. Griesinger, Heinrich A. W. Meyer, Friedrich Muenter, Sebastian Mutschelle, Johann C. F. Schulz, Johann J. Stolz, and Dominikus von Brentano. August Dächsel, Friedrich Hauck, Johann P. Lange, and Ludwig Reinhardt have the name in parentheses.



[Box on page 29]

A TRANSLATION RECOMMENDS ITSELF

One of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany conversed with an elderly lady, to whom she read Habakkuk 1:12: "Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." The lady protested because her Bible said, "Let us not die." The Witness pointed out that the New World Translation adheres closely to the original manuscripts. Since the elderly woman spoke Hebrew, she fetched her Hebrew Bible and discovered to her surprise that the New World Translation is accurate. The Sopherim (Jewish scribes) changed this text long ago because they felt the original passage showed irreverence toward God. With few exceptions, German Bible translations make no adjustments to correct this scribal emendation. The New World Translation has restored the original text.

[Trout]

Maybe you didn't understand my question.

You posted a manuscript list which you claim was used in the translation of the NWT, can you provide a citation stating that those manuscripts you mentioned were in fact the ones used in the translation of the NWT?

What works have you studied?


barryrob:
The works it engenders in those who follow it are a proof of the truth what it contains.
trout:
Like those who follow the Koran?
barryrob:
Persons who follow the Qur'an will go to War and kill each other persons of their own faith and support act of terror in the name of God as did the religions of Christiandom during WWI & WWII etc..

We will not for any reason we we Love other people. The Qur'an does not teach that Jesus is God's Son which shows it to be out of harmony with The Bible's teachings.
Barryrob

So are you saying that when God in the OT commanded the Israelites to go to war, He was out of harmony with His own teachings?

[gryphon]

TroutK13, look carefully in post #2. It's there.

[barryrob]

So are you saying that when God in the OT commanded the Israelites to go to war, He was out of harmony with His own teachings?[/QUOTE]I think your question answers itself!


I WAS TALKING ABOUT EVENTS HAPPENING TODAY, during the Christian period not under the rule of ancient Israel. Today spiritually speaking we have moved from the physical plain to the spiritual plain, e.g. God no longer fights physical war with the nations, but a spiritual one hoping that some will repent from there Godless ways, if not he will fight he the last battle to his victory called in the Bible "Armageddon" in harmony with what he has always done 'fight against evil' in all its forms under the influences from the Devil. So to Fight is still in God plan but this war will be the 'war to end wars' as there will be no warmongers left alive as they will be exterminated for their total lack of respect for the gift of life to humans, they will pay with their lives. "whatever a man is sowing this he will reap."


We live under the "Law of Christ" not the "Law of Moses" today and under the "New Covenant" not the Old one which involves:-



Matthew 22:36-40

1

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 He said to him: "‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39

2

The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."


3
Matthew 5:44-45 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

Now as we TODAY live in the time when Jesus said:-

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

So as Jesus has been given Total Rule over this planet and all on it, if what he said above in not followed it show up persons as not being his followers!

Barryrob

[barryrob]

You posted a manuscript list which you claim was used in the translation of the NWT, can you provide a citation stating that those manuscripts you mentioned were in fact the ones used in the translation of the NWT?


*** si pp. 312-313 Study Number 5—The Hebrew Text of the Holy Scriptures ***

30 Accompanying this study is a chart that sets out the sources for the text of the Hebrew Scriptures in the New World Translation. This chart briefly shows the development of the Hebrew text leading to Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica, which was the main source used. The secondary sources that were consulted are shown by the white dotted lines. This is not intended to indicate that in the case of such versions as the Latin Vulgate and the Greek Septuagint, the original works were consulted. As with the inspired Hebrew writings themselves, the originals of these versions are not now extant. These sources were consulted by means of reliable editions of the texts or from dependable ancient translations and critical commentaries. By consulting these various sources, the New World Bible Translation Committee was able to present an authoritative and reliable translation of the original inspired Hebrew Scriptures. These sources are all indicated in the footnotes of the New World Translation



*** si pp. 319-320 Study Number 6—The Christian Greek Text of the Holy Scriptures ***

31 Of further interest are the comments of Sir Frederic Kenyon in his book Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, 1962, on page 249: "We must be content to know that the general authenticity of the New Testament text has been remarkably supported by the modern discoveries which have so greatly reduced the interval between the original autographs and our earliest extant manuscripts, and that the differences of reading, interesting as they are, do not affect the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith." As shown on page 309 in the chart, "Sources for the Text of the New World Translation—Christian Greek Scriptures," all related documents have been drawn on to provide an accurately translated English text. Valuable footnotes back up all these faithful renderings. The New World Bible Translation Committee used the best results of Bible scholarship developed through the centuries in producing its fine translation. What confidence we may have today that the Christian Greek Scriptures, as they are now available to us, do indeed contain "the pattern of healthful words" as written down by the inspired disciples of Jesus Christ. May we keep holding to these precious words in faith and in love!—2 Tim. 1:13.

Barryrob

[barryrob]

What works have you studied?


What ever is necessary for any given subject to the best of my ability and the time I have available during my working week which as you can understand sometimes is over a long period of time? As I said I am not a scholar but I do believe:-

Proverbs 2:1-7 My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, 2 so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment; 3 if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, 4 if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, 5 in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. 6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment. 7 And for the upright ones he will treasure up practical wisdom; for those walking in integrity he is a shield,

As with the translators that produced the NWT.

Barryrob

[Trout]

trout:
What works have you studied?

barryrob:
What ever is necessary for any given subject to the best of my ability and the time I have available during my working week which as you can understand sometimes is over a long period of time? As I said I am not a scholar but I do believe:-

As with the translators that produced the NWT.

Am I to understand that there is no list of scholars to whom we can attribute the NWT?


gryphon:
TroutK13, look carefully in post #2. It's there.

Thanks gryphon, I didn't see that. Is there a link on the web where I can take a look at that material?

[barryrob]

[QUOTE=troutk13]Am I to understand that there is no list of scholars to whom we can attribute the NWT?


I think this will answer the above question:-

*** Watchtower 1999 10/15 pp. 28-29 A Milestone for Lovers of God’s Word ***
Just who translated this remarkable Bible? The Watchtower of September 15, 1950, said: "The men who compose the translation committee have indicated their desire . . . to remain anonymous, and specifically do not want their names to be published while they are in life or after death. The purpose of the translation is to exalt the name of the living, true God." Some critics charged that the work should be summarily dismissed as the product of amateurs, but not all took such an unreasonable stance. Writes Alan S. Duthie: "If we know who the translators or the publishers of a particular Bible translation are, does it help us to decide whether that translation is good or bad? Not directly. There is no substitute for examining the characteristics of each translation itself."
Footnote w99 10/15 p. 29 A Milestone for Lovers of God’s Word
Interestingly, the jacket of the 1971 Reference Edition of the New American Standard Bible similarly stated: "We have not used any scholar’s name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits."




*** g89 10/22 p. 20 Part 20: 19th Century Onward—Restoration Imminent! ***

"It is the truth rather than its servant that should be honored and proclaimed," Russell wrote in 1900, adding: "There is too much disposition to credit truth to the preacher, forgetful that all truth is of God, who uses one or another servant in its proclamation as it may please him." This is the principal reason why writers and translators of Watch Tower publications, as well as members of the New World Bible Translation Committee, choose to remain anonymous.

Barryrob

[Trout]

[QUOTE=troutk13]Am I to understand that there is no list of scholars to whom we can attribute the NWT?


I think this will answer the above question:-

*** Watchtower 1999 10/15 pp. 28-29 A Milestone for Lovers of God’s Word ***
Just who translated this remarkable Bible? The Watchtower of September 15, 1950, said: "The men who compose the translation committee have indicated their desire . . . to remain anonymous, and specifically do not want their names to be published while they are in life or after death. The purpose of the translation is to exalt the name of the living, true God." Some critics charged that the work should be summarily dismissed as the product of amateurs, but not all took such an unreasonable stance. Writes Alan S. Duthie: "If we know who the translators or the publishers of a particular Bible translation are, does it help us to decide whether that translation is good or bad? Not directly. There is no substitute for examining the characteristics of each translation itself."
Footnote w99 10/15 p. 29 A Milestone for Lovers of God’s Word
Interestingly, the jacket of the 1971 Reference Edition of the New American Standard Bible similarly stated: "We have not used any scholar’s name for reference or recommendations because it is our belief God’s Word should stand on its merits."




*** g89 10/22 p. 20 Part 20: 19th Century Onward—Restoration Imminent! ***

"It is the truth rather than its servant that should be honored and proclaimed," Russell wrote in 1900, adding: "There is too much disposition to credit truth to the preacher, forgetful that all truth is of God, who uses one or another servant in its proclamation as it may please him." This is the principal reason why writers and translators of Watch Tower publications, as well as members of the New World Bible Translation Committee, choose to remain anonymous.

Barryrob


OK, so it's not known who the translators were, that's the question I asked.

So the answer to my other question is, no one knows if they had any training in Biblical languages.

And since you've agreed that you aren't a Biblical language scholar, who's opinion do you trust as to the accuracy of the NWT?

[barryrob]

OK, so it's not known who the translators were, that's the question I asked.

So the answer to my other question is, no one knows if they had any training in Biblical languages.

And since you've agreed that you aren't a Biblical language scholar, who's opinion do you trust as to the accuracy of the NWT?
OK, so it's not known who the translators were, that's the question I asked.

So the answer to my other question is, no one knows if they had any training in Biblical languages.

And since you've agreed that you aren't a Biblical language scholar, who's opinion do you trust as to the accuracy of the NWT?



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At the end of the day that is something I do not deligate to anyone, it has to be my totally my own responsibility founded upon what I understsnd God’s Word to teach and dotrines therein and seeing who follow them as Jesus proscribed. As God had recorded:-



1 John 5:20 But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.



So as I read the scriptures/texts (in various Bibles) I ask which ideas stay within the teaching of Jesus Christ e.g. 1) thus I reject the Trinity as Jesus did not teach it, 2) The Most High alone is “Jehovah” Psalm 83:18.



This is to an important a dission to leave to anyone else, my life is at stake:-



Galatians 6:4-5 But let each one prove what his own work is, and then he will have cause for exultation in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person. For each one will carry his own load.



2 Timothy 1:13-14 Keep holding the pattern of healthful words that you heard from me with the faith and love that are in connection with Christ Jesus. This fine trust guard through the holy spirit which is dwelling in us.



So the ones that follow the words, “healthful ones”, of Jesus are the one that I will join myself to, this I do not see in the established churches so a Paul said:-



1 Corinthians 15:10 But by God’s undeserved kindness I am what I am.. . .



Barryrob

[Trout]

Barryrob:
At the end of the day that is something I do not deligate to anyone

That's great, but I would advise you to use all the available tools in making your decision.

When you or your family feel ill, don't you ask a doctor for his opinion? That's wise because the doctor is trained in such things and has more knowledge and equipment than the average person to diagnose the myriads of sicknesses.

Same with Bible translations, why not ask the experts which of the translations they feel are the most accurate?

[barryrob]

That's great, but I would advise you to use all the available tools in making your decision.

When you or your family feel ill, don't you ask a doctor for his opinion? That's wise because the doctor is trained in such things and has more knowledge and equipment than the average person to diagnose the myriads of sicknesses.

Same with Bible translations, why not ask the experts which of the translations they feel are the most accurate?


That is why over the years I have assembled reasonable library of reference works and various Translations, which I do consult during my Bible Studies which has helped me to see that the NWT is a good translation of the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Holy Scriptures.

Barryrob

[Trout]

That is why over the years I have assembled reasonable library of reference works and various Translations, which I do consult during my Bible Studies which has helped me to see that the NWT is a good translation of the Hebrew and Greek texts of the Holy Scriptures.

Barryrob

There are a great many trustworthy scholars who have come to the opposite conclusion that you have, why do you think that is?

[barryrob]

Could it be that they do not believe what they read, e.g. Paul said that Jesus in "subject" to God The Father:-

1 Corinthians 15:24-28



The reading from the New International Version (note the bold type) is as follows :-

"24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he "has put everything under his feet". Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

So as Jesus in "Subject" to The Father he cannot be The God or part of a of him as in a Godhead. He is a subordinate seprate being.

Barryrob

[Trout]

Could it be that they do not believe what they read, e.g. Paul said that Jesus in "subject" to God The Father:-

1 Corinthians 15:24-28



The reading from the New International Version (note the bold type) is as follows :-

"24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he "has put everything under his feet". Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

So as Jesus in "Subject" to The Father he cannot be The God or part of a of him as in a Godhead. He is a subordinate seprate being.

Barryrob

It could be that they have come to know that the NWT is more like a commentary than an actual translation of the manuscripts.

[barryrob]

It could be that they have come to know that the NWT is more like a commentary than an actual translation of the manuscripts.

KJV 1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


NIV 1 Cor 15:24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."C Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all

A subjugated being cannot be Almighty God (he is not subject to anything or anyone), thus Jesus is not The God but "a god" according to scriptures.

Barryrob