Revelation On Who The Creator Is

[Squeakybro]

GOD THE FATHER IS THE CREATOR
2 Cor 5:18
18 Now all things are of God(Father), who has reconciled us to Himself(Father) through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
1 Pet 4:19
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God(Father) commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator(Father).
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ(Jesus), the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ(Jesus) is God(Father).
Eph 2:10
10 For we are His(Father) workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God(Father) prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Eph 3:8-11
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God(Father) who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God(Father) might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He(Father) accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Col 1:13-20
13 He(Father) has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son(Jesus) of His(Father) love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His(Jesus) blood, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him(Father) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him(Jesus) and for Him(Father).
17 And He(Father) is before all things, and in Him(Father) all things consist.
18 And He(Jesus) is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He(Jesus) may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him(Jesus) all the fullness should dwell,
20 and by Him(Father) to reconcile all things to Himself(Father), by Him(Jesus), whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His(Jesus) cross.
Rev 4:11
11 "You are worthy, O Lord(Father), to receive glory and honor and power; for You(Father) created all things, and by Your(Father) will they exist and were created."
Mark 10:6
6 "But from the beginning of the creation, God(Father) 'made them male and female.'
Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His(Father) invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His(Father) eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
John 5:37-40
37 "And the Father Himself, who sent Me(Jesus), has testified of Me(Jesus). You have neither heard His(Father) voice at any time, nor seen His (Father) form.
38 "But you do not have His(Father) word abiding in you, because whom He(Father) sent, Him(Jesus) you do not believe.
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me(Jesus).
40 "But you are not willing to come to Me(Jesus) that you may have life.
(NKJ)
THROUGH CHRIST---REASON FOR WAS CHRIST
xxxThe deffinition of through- is reason for. So God created everything through or for the reason of Jesus. God created everything for Jesus sake.

Heb 1:1-6
1 God(Father), who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His(Father) Son(Jesus), whom He(Father) has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He(Father) made the worlds;
3 who being the brightness of His(Father) glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His(Father) power, when He(Jesus) had by Himself(Jesus) purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty(Father) on high,
4 having become so much better than the angels, as He(Jesus) has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He(Father) ever say: "You(Jesus) are My(Father) Son(Jesus), today I(Father) have begotten You(Jesus)"? And again: "I will be to Him a Father, and He(Jesus) shall be to Me(Father) a Son"?
6 But when He(Father) again brings the firstborn(Jesus) into the world, He(Father) says: "Let all the angels of God(Father) worship Him(Jesus)."
2 Cor 3:4
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God(Father).
Gal 4:7
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God(Father) through Christ(Jesus).
Phil 4:7
7 and the peace of God(Father), which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Phil 4:13
13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8
8 First, I thank my God(Father) through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 5:21
21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God(Father), who has reconciled us to Himself(Father) through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God(Father) was in Christ(Jesus) reconciling the world to Himself(Father), not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

xxx God the Father done all the creating. God the Father sent His Son Jesus to pay for our sins. And to be an example of how to worship God the Father in the right Spirit. God created Jesus first before anything else. Then God had someone to love. God had someone to give to, but Jesus didnt have anyone that He could give to. So God created everything else through Jesus or for Jesus. The heavens and the earth were created for Jesus. Now to purchase them Jesus had to die on the cross. We all have to prove ourselves to God. Jesus proved Himself, and made the way that we can prove ourselves.
GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)

[luv1another]

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

God is I am

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

yes God is the creator as seen in two verses... funny thing is squeaky you can't know this without the old testament since the two verses that tell us are both in the old testament...
Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
Isa 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

God is also the word which is Jesus.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[{Tim}]

Saying "God the Father is creator" doesn't mean God the Son isn't. The Father and Son are both God, and since it was God who created therefore all of the Father and the Son and the Spirit created.

I strongly suggest you pop over to www.tektonics.org and read J.P.Holding's defense of the trinity, it's called "Jesus: God's Wisdom". Now I very much doubt you will change your mind, but still it would be nice if you had some idea of what the trinity really means before you run around proclaiming that it's false.

Tim

[Squeakybro]

I hope that makes sense to you. At least one of us would know what it says.

[Sparko]

I hope that makes sense to you. At least one of us would know what it says.
That's pretty much how we feel about your "revelations" Squeekybro. I hope they at least make sense to you, because they sure don't to us.

And so far you haven't even tried to discuss anything, all you do is ignore anything that goes against your little revelations and twisted doctrine or dismiss it with a handwave as "too intellectual for me"

This web site is not your soapbox, and you are supposed to debate and discuss matters with others, and at least try to defend your wackiness. Instead, you think of theologyweb (and all the other web sites you have been on and kicked off of) as someway to just publish your nonsense.

Sorry, but we aren't buying it. Has ANYONE so far? Do you have ANY followers? Isn't that a CLUE?

[Centurion]

I'm not sure that God the Father created the God the Son, or that God the Father created the world for God the Son. I'm even more unsure about that since I can't find any scripture to back up such a statement.

[Squeakybro]

you said
That's pretty much how we feel about your "revelations" Squeekybro. I hope they at least make sense to you, because they sure don't to us.

I said
I know. But what can I do, the Lord says to spread the gospel, I do. While others just spread their own opinion.

[Squeakybro]

Centurion didnt you read this.
GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)

[Athanasius]

Centurion didnt you read this.

GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)

Note that in both of the last two scriptures that you quote above, neither of them use the past tense verb "created" to describe Jesus. This is because God did not create Jesus in the sense that he had a beginning in time, as I will demontrate to you from scripture.


Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm,

Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

In this verse, we see that Peter believed that the "day" Jesus was begotten was the day of his resurrection. However, the original begatting of Jesus was before time. Therefore, there are no scriptures which speak of a "day" associated with this.

There are scriptures which indicate that Christ created time.

First of all, scripture speaks of an existance before the ages:

1 Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, having been hidden, which God predetermined before the ages for our glory (Green's Literal Translation).

The word translated "ages" here is the Greek word "aeon." So, according to this verse, time had a beginning!

Secondly, Jesus is the Father of Eternity:

Is 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful,
Counsellor, Mighty *God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. (Darby's Translation)

Lastly, Jesus said in Revelation 22:13, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

If Jesus is the beginning, then there was no beginning before Him. In
other words, time did not exist before Him! Rather, time had it's origin in Him, as did all things.

Therefore, the word "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 cannot mean that Jesus had a beginning in time:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"

Rather, it means that He had preimenance over all creation.

Ephraim had preiminence over Manasseh. Therefore, Jeremiah 31:9 says:
"They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

But Manasseh, not Ephraim, was the first in birth order: Genesis 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's
head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

As Barnes writes regarding Jesus being "the firstborn of every creature.":

Among all the creatures of God, or over all his creation, occupying the rank and pre-eminence of the firstborn. The first-born, or the eldest son, among the Hebrews as elsewhere, had peculiar privileges. He was entitled
to a double portion of the inheritance. It has been, also, and especially in Oriental countries, a common thing for the eldest son to succeed to the estate and the title of his father. In early times, the firstborn son was the officiating priest in the family, in the absence or on the death of
the father. There can be no doubt that the apostle here has reference to the usual distinctions and honours conferred on the firstborn, and means to
say, that, among all the creatures of God, Christ occupied a pre-eminence
similar to that. He does not say, that in all respects, he resembled the firstborn in a family; nor does he say that he himself was a creature, for the point of his comparison does not turn on these things, and what he proceeds to affirm respecting him is inconsistent with the idea of his being a created Being himself. He that "created all things that are in heaven and that are in earth" was not himself created. That the apostle did not mean to represent him as a creature is also manifest from the reason which he assigns why he is called the firstborn. "He is the image of God, and the firstborn of every creature, for oti by him were all things created." That is, he sustains the elevated rank of the firstborn, or a high eminence
over the creation, because by him "all things were created in heaven and in earth." The language here used, also, does not fairly imply that he was a creature, or that he was, in nature and rank, one of those in relation to whom it is said he was the firstborn. It is true that the word firstborn-prwtotokov -properly means the firstborn child of a father or mother, #Mt 1:25 Lu 2:7; or the firstborn of animals. But two things are also to be remarked in regard to the use of the word:

(1.) It does not necessarily imply that any one is born afterwards in the family, for it would be used of the firstborn, though an only child; and (2) it is used to denote one who is chief, or who is highly distinguished and pre-eminent. Thus it is employed in #Ro 8:29, "That he might be the firstborn among many brethren." So, in #Col 1:18, it is said that he was "the firstborn from the dead;" not that he was literally the first that
was raised from the dead, which was not the fact, but that he might be pre-eminent among those that are raised. Comp. #Ex 4:22. The meaning then is, that Christ sustains the most exalted rank in the universe; he is pre-eminent above all others; he is at the head of all things. The expression does not mean that he was "begotten before all creatures," as
it is often explained, but refers to the simple fact that he sustains the highest rank over the creation. He is the Son of God. He is the heir of
all things. All other creatures are also the "offspring of God;" but he is exalted as the Son of God above all."


Therefore, Jesus existed before time. Since He created all things, including time, it is improper to speak of him as having been created in time. Rather, He has always proceeded from the Father like light shining out from an eternal sun. He is begotten, not created, in the sense that He issues forth from the Father and is composed of His substance. He issues from the Father, and all of creation has it's beginning or origin in Him, and this is the sense in which He is "the beginning of the creation of God." To assert that Jesus was created in time is to ignore scriptures which plainly teach otherwise. Jesus is not a created thing; rather, He is the One through whom God the Father Created all things:

John 1:3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

[Squeakybro]

you said

GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)





Note that in both of the last two scriptures that you quote above, neither of them use the past tense verb "created" to describe Jesus. This is because God did not create Jesus in the sense that he had a beginning in time, as I will demontrate to you from scripture.

I said
If you believe what you just wrote you have stretched understanding to the point of breaking.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)

[Athanasius]

you said

GOD EVEN CREATED JESUS
John 17:5
5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus) together with Yourself(Father), with the glory which I(Jesus) had with You(Father) before the world was.
Col 1:15
15 He(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(Father), the firstborn over all creation.
Rev 3:14
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness(Jesus), the Beginning of the creation of God(Father):
(NKJ)





Note that in both of the last two scriptures that you quote above, neither of them use the past tense verb "created" to describe Jesus. This is because God did not create Jesus in the sense that he had a beginning in time, as I will demontrate to you from scripture.

I said
If you believe what you just wrote you have stretched understanding to the point of breaking.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)


Now let me get this straight...you are calling me a blind guide for asserting that Jesus created all things, including time itself? Hmmm...well let's see what scripture has to say about it.

John 1:3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (AV)

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty *God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace. (Darby)

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting

The goings forth of Jesus have been from everlasting. If time went back forever, we could never have arrived at the present moment. We know that all of creation had a beginning in time, for the book of Genesis starts with, "In the beginning". Therefore, for the goings forth of Jesus to have been from everlasting, He must have existed before time.

I ask that next time, instead of resorting to name calling, you will reason with me from scripture. I have been respectful enough to do that with you.

[Squeakybro]

you said
Now let me get this straight...you are calling me a blind guide for asserting that Jesus created all things, including time itself? Hmmm...well let's see what scripture has to say about it.

I said
Lets look at John 1. I dont see the name Jesus here anywhere. You assume away to much. The Word of God that proceeds from the mouth of God is who created everything.


John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(NKJ)

And whether you know it or not the old testament is obsolete.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

And if you think your arguement is justified by useing the old testament you could fall from grace.

Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

And if they isnt good enough by going to the old testament you dont even have the right God.

II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

And I didnt call you a name, I shared the verse the Holy Spirit told me to share with you.

[Athanasius]

you said
Now let me get this straight...you are calling me a blind guide for asserting that Jesus created all things, including time itself? Hmmm...well let's see what scripture has to say about it.

I said
Lets look at John 1. I dont see the name Jesus here anywhere. You assume away to much. The Word of God that proceeds from the mouth of God is who created everything.


John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(NKJ)

You are saying that the Word is not Jesus? That directly contradicts John 1:14:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

i


And whether you know it or not the old testament is obsolete.

Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)

Althought the writer of Hebrews stated that the Old Covenant was becoming obsolete, that does not mean that the Words of the Isaiah the prophet are any less true. For Jesus said regarding the OT scriptures in John 10:35 that "the scripture cannot be broken".

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

And if you think your arguement is justified by useing the old testament you could fall from grace.

Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

And if they isnt good enough by going to the old testament you dont even have the right God.

II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

And I didnt call you a name, I shared the verse the Holy Spirit told me to share with you.

Jesus and the apostles quoted from the OT. If what you are saying were true, then the apostles fell from grace and departed from Christ because they quoted the Old Testament!

And yes, you quoted from scripture to imply that I am a blind quide because I disagree with you! I don't think you were hearing from the Holy Spirit when you did that.

[Squeakybro]

you said
You are saying that the Word is not Jesus? That directly contradicts John 1:14:

I said
Dont see it there either. What I see is the Word(He) He is a spiritual title of authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. The HOly Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a He.
Verse 14 is speaking of the only begotten Word of God that IS full of grace and truth.
Now the only begotten Word of God that is full of grace and truth in verse 17 came through Jesus. So in verse 14 the only begotten Word of God came through in verse 18 the only begotten Son of God Jesus.

John 1:1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

[Athanasius]

Regarding John 1:14,
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Squeakybro wrote:

Dont see it there either. What I see is the Word(He) He is a spiritual title of authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. The HOly Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a He.
Verse 14 is speaking of the only begotten Word of God that IS full of grace and truth.
Now the only begotten Word of God that is full of grace and truth in verse 17 came through Jesus. So in verse 14 the only begotten Word of God came through in verse 18 the only begotten Son of God Jesus.


Squeakybro, that is very convoluted, and denies the obvoius meaning of this verse. How can you say that? You are being stubborn in the face of this obvious truth from the New Testament! Why? You need to repent of this.

[Squeakybro]

you said

Squeakybro, that is very convoluted, and denies the obvoius meaning of this verse. How can you say that? You are being stubborn in the face of this obvious truth from the New Testament! Why? You need to repent of this.

I said
Sorry but your seeing the milk understanding. Now if you were in the meat you would see it the way I do.
He is a title of authority. We call God a He and He is neither male nor female. We call the Holy Spirit a He and He is neither male nor female. The same with the Word we call it a He as a spiritual title of authority.
Look at John 1-1 It starts out talking about the Word of God then in verse14 it says that the Word is full of grace and truth. So it is the only begotten Word of God full of grace and truth.

John 1:1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)


Now where did that Word go to become flesh? It found its home in Jesus. what does it say that grace and truth came through Jesus the only begotten Son of God.
So what we have is the only begotten Word of God came through the only begotten Son of God Jesus.
John 1:17-18
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

[Centurion]

NO WHERE, not even in those verses does the Bible say that God the Father CREATED Jesus the Son.:sigh:

[Squeakybro]

Let me see if I can help you out here. The first verse says God who created all things.
The second verse. Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. Looks pretty simple to me. But if your an intellectual I'm sure you can screw that up also.

Eph 3:9
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
(NKJ)

Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
(NKJ)