Name of the Lord

[Maxell]

LXX
Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

I just looked at the Jewish Publication Society translation which is based on the Masoretic text. Their translation is essentially the same.
if he pronounces the name LORD, he shall be put to death. JPS 1985

Usually word naqab is translated in blaspheme, in english translations.
Is it really death penalty sin in Judaism, even mention name of Lord?

How then we should understand:

My Name shall be declared in all the earth.
(Ex. 9:16)

My people shall know my name"
(Is. 52:6)

"And those who know your name will put their trust in you"
(Ps. 9:10)

"I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known my name"
(Ps. 91:14)

"…a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear YHWH
and who meditate on His name."
(Mal. 3:16)

"Let them praise Your great and awesome name- He is holy."
(Ps. 99:3)

"My mouth shall speak the praise of YHWH, and all flesh shall bless
His holy name forever and ever."
(Ps. 145:21)

"Let them praise the name of YHWH…"
(Ps. 148:13)

[shunyadragon]

LXX
Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

I just looked at the Jewish Publication Society translation which is based on the Masoretic text. Their translation is essentially the same.
if he pronounces the name LORD, he shall be put to death. JPS 1985

Usually word naqab is translated in blaspheme, in english translations.
Is it really death penalty sin in Judaism, even mention name of Lord?

How then we should understand:

My Name shall be declared in all the earth.
(Ex. 9:16)

My people shall know my name"
(Is. 52:6)

"And those who know your name will put their trust in you"
(Ps. 9:10)

"I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known my name"
(Ps. 91:14)

"…a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear YHWH
and who meditate on His name."
(Mal. 3:16)

"Let them praise Your great and awesome name- He is holy."
(Ps. 99:3)

"My mouth shall speak the praise of YHWH, and all flesh shall bless
His holy name forever and ever."
(Ps. 145:21)

"Let them praise the name of YHWH…"
(Ps. 148:13)
This a great topic and a great beginning quote from Leviticus. This quote is very central to my belief that humans cannot define God or name God definitively as people in the different religions and denominations of Christianity do putting their belief above others. The more narrowly you try and define God the trouble you get into.

[Timothy Leary]

I agree with your conclusions. See http://tinyurl.com/5m2fo where I and Raine Miller wrote an article on this subject.

Other Jewish translations, such as the Judaica Press Translation (http://www.chabad.org/library/archive/LibraryArchive.asp?AID=63255) also contradict that translation.

[shunyadragon]

I agree with your conclusions. See http://tinyurl.com/5m2fo where I and Raine Miller wrote an article on this subject.

Other Jewish translations, such as the Judaica Press Translation (http://www.chabad.org/library/archive/LibraryArchive.asp?AID=63255) also contradict that translation.
I give an alternative explanation is that YHWH was not the name or a name of God, but may have been used in place of a name of God.

I do not buy the totally negative view of Judism's view of Babylonian religion. In fact I believe that the Babylonian writings and religion greatly influenced Judaism and provided a foundation for much of the Torah.

[BibleWheel]

LXX
Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

I just looked at the Jewish Publication Society translation which is based on the Masoretic text. Their translation is essentially the same.
if he pronounces the name LORD, he shall be put to death. JPS 1985

Usually word naqab is translated in blaspheme, in english translations.
Is it really death penalty sin in Judaism, even mention name of Lord?

How then we should understand:

My Name shall be declared in all the earth.
(Ex. 9:16)

My people shall know my name"
(Is. 52:6)

"And those who know your name will put their trust in you"
(Ps. 9:10)

"I will deliver him; I will set him on high, because he has known my name"
(Ps. 91:14)

"…a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear YHWH
and who meditate on His name."
(Mal. 3:16)

"Let them praise Your great and awesome name- He is holy."
(Ps. 99:3)

"My mouth shall speak the praise of YHWH, and all flesh shall bless
His holy name forever and ever."
(Ps. 145:21)

"Let them praise the name of YHWH…"
(Ps. 148:13)
Doesn't the context solve the problem? Here it is:

LXX Lev 24:15-16:
And speak to the sons of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, Whosoever shall curse God shall bear his sin. Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

The statement in Lev 26:16 should not be taken as an isolated command against ever "naming the name of the Lord" in any and all circumstances. It looks to me like it is simply adding specificity to the crime of "cursing God" mentioned in the previous verse, namely, cursing God in a way that uses His name. There is only one crime here that is being described in verses 15 and 16.

Richard

[shunyadragon]

Doesn't the context solve the problem? Here it is:

LXX Lev 24:15-16:
And speak to the sons of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, Whosoever shall curse God shall bear his sin. Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

The statement in Lev 26:16 should not be taken as an isolated command against ever "naming the name of the Lord" in any and all circumstances. It looks to me like it is simply adding specificity to the crime of "cursing God" mentioned in the previous verse, namely, cursing God in a way that uses His name. There is only one crime here that is being described in verses 15 and 16.
Nice try, but that is not what it says. Even the Hebrew scholars acknowledge that what is said is what is said.

[BibleWheel]

Nice try, but that is not what it says. Even the Hebrew scholars acknowledge that what is said is what is said.
I quoted exactly what it says and then I simply said what it says, so it seems to me that the Hebrew scholars would all agree that it says what it says which is what I said it says.

[technomage]

Nice try, but that is not what it says. Even the Hebrew scholars acknowledge that what is said is what is said.
Shunyadragon, as much as Richard and I may disagree on theological points, he is quite correct in this regard. The Septuigent translation is not completely accurate to the Hebrew: instead, it is accurate to the Law, as understood through Rabbinic interpretation.

The position of Rabbi originated within the culture of post-Exilic Judaic thought, and first expressed itself within the Talmud. This "school" of understanding within Judaism eventually became the Pharisees: after the dispersion of the Jews in 70 CE, the Saducees fundamentally disappeared, and Pharisaical interpretation became the "mainstream" within Judaism. (Please note that the Rabinical interpretation is not the only position within Judaism: as our own Karaite can tell us, there are Jews who hold that the Rabbinic writings and interpretations of the Law are unscriptural additions.)

One of the common thoughts of Rabbinic interpretation was the concept of building a "fence" around the Law: in other words, in addition to the strict interpretation, they added a "safety measure" in the form of extra obligations--those who kept the extra obligations could be sure that they did not break the Law, because the extra obligations were (in some cases) even more stringent.

Case in point: Jews are forbidden to gain benefit from anything offered to idols. The Rabbis determined that this includes wine--which makes sense, as wine was frequently used for libation offerings. But then they extended it, to the point that any wine made by Gentiles cannot be considered fit for Jews, because "it could have been intended for sacrifice to an idol."

In this case, though the word "naqab" does not meak "speak," it does have two meanings:
1: To point to, designate (by pointing a finger to), or poke holes in
2: To blaspheme.

Now, obviously the Hebrews were not going to throw rocks at you because you pointed towards something...but yes, it was a capital crime to curse or blaspheme the name of the Lord. The Rabbis again "made a fence" around this injunction, and said "Well, if we do not even pronounce the name of the Lord, we cannot blaspheme that Name," so they made it also illegal to even pronounce the Tetragrammaton formula.

I give an alternative explanation is that YHWH was not the name or a name of God, but may have been used in place of a name of God.
Frank, that sounds like a very reasonable explanation: unfortunately, it is incorrect. The use of the Tetragrammaton as a name has been documented as far back to the late seventh or early sixth century BCE, making the use of this name pre-date the Babylonian exile.

More later.

Justin

[Timothy Leary]

Doesn't the context solve the problem? Here it is:

LXX Lev 24:15-16:
And speak to the sons of Israel, and thou shalt say to them, Whosoever shall curse God shall bear his sin. Lev 24:16 And he that names the name of the Lord, let him die the death: let all the congregation of Israel stone him with stones; whether he be a stranger or a native, let him die for naming the name of the Lord.

The statement in Lev 26:16 should not be taken as an isolated command against ever "naming the name of the Lord" in any and all circumstances. It looks to me like it is simply adding specificity to the crime of "cursing God" mentioned in the previous verse, namely, cursing God in a way that uses His name. There is only one crime here that is being described in verses 15 and 16.
Nice try, but that is not what it says. Even the Hebrew scholars acknowledge that what is said is what is said.


BibleWheel is quite correct. The LXX, however, mistranslates this passage. Other respectable translations, such as the Judaica Press translation, concur with what BibleWheel said.

[Timothy Leary]

I give an alternative explanation is that YHWH was not the name or a name of God, but may have been used in place of a name of God.

Any evidence for this? Why would the bible say "I am יהוה your God", and so many other similar phrases, if יהוה was not God's name? Why would it tell us not to swear falsely "by the name of יהוה your God", if it wasn't his/her name??

[shunyadragon]

Any evidence for this? Why would the bible say "I am יהוה your God", and so many other similar phrases, if יהוה was not God's name? Why would it tell us not to swear falsely "by the name of יהוה your God", if it wasn't his/her name??
I do not hold the Torah as literal as you do concerning whether God said this or not. The writers reported that he said this. This does not discount the possibility that יהוה was substituted in the text so that the name or a name of God would not be used. We do have some ancient texts where a blank space was left that should be the name of God.

[Timothy Leary]

such as?

[kofh2u]

Any evidence for this? Why would the bible say "I am ???? your God", and so many other similar phrases, if ???? was not God's name? Why would it tell us not to swear falsely "by the name of ???? your God", if it wasn't his/her name??


I notice you refer to the monogram of four letters as the Tetra- (four)-grammation.

Is there any source which explains the traditional and very ancient title of Tetragrammation for YHVH?

A monogram is NOT an actual name, even if it is an acronym. So, Shuny's point seems to have some validity by definition.

As you well know, the middle age Kabbalahist (13th century) revived the present day mysticism that so many rabbi revere and teach today. Hollywood has become fascinated with the teachings, and people, like Madonna, have made Kabbalah better known. Rabbinical advocates of this esoteria argue it is ancient and of earliest usage.

The Tetra-monogram suggests that God's name is complicated, a permutation, rather than a single word.
Forinstance, the Kabbalahists identify the only (12) arrangements possible. They call these the Twelve Great Names:

1) HYHV
2) HYVH
3) HVHY
4) HVYH
5) HHVY
6) HHYV

7) YHVH
8) YVHH
9) VHYH
10) VYHH
11) YHHV
12) VHHY

The repetitious use of of 12 throughout the bible gives us at least pause in contemplating these Jewish ideas. IMO this is all part of an elaborate methodology, a pattern to a mnemonic contrivance hidden in Torah, a "hidden manna" if you can tolerate new things and old in KofH.

For instance, the Kabbalahists also permutate these letters in pairs, calling them the "Doubles." These two sets, seven and twelve, are joined by the "Three Mothers," (HYV), sort of the Jews Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Jesus brought to our attention.

These sets of three, seven, and twelve add , 3+7+12 = 22, the number of letters in the Hebrew Alphabet.

HY
YH
YV
VY
HV
VH
HH

In addition to these observations, for whatever they might be worth, many people sure to avoid even Rabbinically accepted Kabbalahistic ideas, the whole ball of wax is even more profoundly related to the evangelia of the Kingdom of Heaven proclaimed by Christ, one certainly different from our present Christian Orthodox rules for salvation:

Orthodoxy
Trinity

There is one living and true God, Creator of all things, eternally existing in three persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary being fully human... and fully God.


He lived a sinless life...
..and through His substitutionary death, atoned for our sins. He was bodily resurrected and ascended into Heaven. He will return bodily, personally, and visibly.

Resurrection

We believe in the future bodily resurrection of all persons, the just and the unjust,...
... and the Final Judgment.


Scriptures

All of the Scriptures (the Bible consisting of Old and New Testaments) to be the final authoritative source for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

Church

We believe in the Church universal, which is the living spiritual Body of Christ, of which all believers are members.

NOTE:
Sheepdog advises me that in addition, no one will be considered Orthodox (true) Christian IF, he personally announces he is the messiah, and this rule includes even the messiah when he comes:

Sheepdog:
"Anyone who claims to be a new Messiah or even Jesus himself (should and when he re-appears?) is a false Messiah and will be resisted by orthodox Christians"

More on that, the Evangelia of K of H if desired.









Rev. 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars, (the sevenfold
spirit of the psyche: Id (HY), Libido (YH), Ego (YV), Anima (VY), Self (HV), Harmony (HH), Superego (YH):

[Drashi]

There are many names of the Creator. SOme longer than others. For example the name that the Kohain GaDol would speak aloud once a year in the holy of holies, the name that was spoken for public prayer, the name spoken for private prayer,, a name spoken to refer to His source of abundance, and a name to speak of his source of All, and...

There have been many traditions on the use of these names, and there have been found ancient scrills where the text is in traditional Hebraic lettering, while names of G-d are written in a Phonecian-style script. (Which is not much different than me just misspelling God in the previous sentence!)

We also have a tradition that the 4-letter name that you were foccused on is made up of the same letters for "was" "is" and "will be" verbs, indicating that the Creator is not a thing, and like "love" the name can only be experienced, for any description of it always falls short because one cannot describe a verb, but just the experience of the verb.

A manifestation, on the other hand is esily described, for that is not God.