tree of the knowledge of good and evil a mind altering drug?

[ih8censorship]

ok as far as i know there is no biblical basis for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being a apple tree. so what was it. hmm it allowed them a different state of mind, just like a mind altering drug such as marijuana. so can it be that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a "drug tree" and the first battle in the "drug war" was them just listening/not listening to God? and then the "peer pressure" of eve offering adam the fruit? and could it be that since we are decendents from adam and eve that that mind altering chemical remains in our bodys today? since everyone is a decendent of those 2 people the chemical wouldent be diluted or anything and would remain present and that is why people know the difference between right and wrong. and can it be that the mentaly ill who supposudly do not know the difference between right and wrong lack this chemical substance some how?

[Pilgrim]

LOLOLOLOL. That was good for a hearty laught. Thanks.

You are correct that no where does the Bible call it an apple tree. It does identify it clearly as a fruit bearing tree though.

[ih8censorship]

well just because it was fruit bearing doesnt mean it couldent also be a mind altering substance..... theres all kinds of extinct plants and animals we dont know about.

[Pilgrim]

well just because it was fruit bearing doesnt mean it couldent also be a mind altering substance..... theres all kinds of extinct plants and animals we dont know about.
Ture enough, and that's a great thing to base a good theory on. I wonder why modern scholarship has not jumped on this band wagon in droves?

[ih8censorship]

why havent they jumped on the band wagon? well i think a big part of it could be denial. who wants to belive that there were drugs in a perfect place? you probly can agree that after they ate the fruit there mind was changed and humanitys minds were changed after that.

anyway this is the unorthodox theology forum :teeth:

[Pilgrim]

"there" mind as opposed to "here" mind? :smile:

Yes I do believe in the noetic effects of sin.

[ih8censorship]

you know what i meant.

maybey i shouls have paid more attention in english class?

[Pilgrim]

No, just type a little more slowly and read what you typed before you submit it.

[anami]

I agree with you Iha8 that the tree of knowledge was most likely psycaldelic, this is common theory. Here is something for you to chew on though;
Hebrew translated to english is not Good and Evil
It is Ripe and Unripe so the lovers were cast out not for tasting knowledge but for not being ready for the taste.
By the way if God made Eve subserviant than there was difinatly a Lilith. Or Eve and Lilith are one.
The catholic church as well as King James openly changed that information to make women evil by the whims of saint Peter who was just pissed off because Jesus turned over popeship to Mary, his wife, and not to Peter who felt women were evil because men can not concentrate around them ( which proves men unworthy NOT women) Jesus held women in an unfathomably higher esteem. The Pope should be of the line of Mary not Peter which gives lead that Genesis is falsely offensive to women.

[ih8censorship]

anami i "lost you" at Lilith.... i dont know much about the pope because im protestant

[anami]

The story of lilith comes from a feminist take on the garden story.
So this version (THis is only a story this is not posed as fact in any regard)
God makes the Garden and everything in it then he makes a man and a woman AT the SAME TIME. Adam being the man that he is tries to lord himself over all of the animals and soon enough he's bossing Lilith around. So Lilith, typicsal feminist, says you know what? you are too big for your britches I am outta here. So she abandons Adam and finds her own happy place to live ever after in the garden. but Adam is distrought so he says to God. What's up with that Lilithchick? She doesn't listen or mind and she left me here all alone. and God says she was your equal and you treated her like shit so why shouldn't she leave? So Adam is crying and bemoaning the break up until God says look knock it off already. So Adam begs please, please I need a woman but I need her to be of my control, subserviant to me in every way please God! So he says alreight, if ot will make you stop whining. So he takes a rib of adam and some dirt and makes Eve.
commercial break uno momento.

[anami]

So eve cooks for Adam ,makes him clothes and babys him while he just bosses the poor animals around. The animals go to Lilith and tell her about Eve and what is up. So Lilith turns herself into an owl so that she can fly back to the couple and wisely assess the situation. She sees surley enough Eve is in a sadly abusive state of affairs. So she turns herself into a serpent and sits herself in the tree of knowledge to try to bring some greater view of the situation to Eve. She bids her to bite of knowledge to clearly see her situation. So she does and is like whoah, I'm outta here. So she takes off with Lilith to live happily ever after. So Adam goes to God and says God that didn't work either. I need another woman one even more subserviant than Eve. And God says your a Jerk Get the heck out of my Garden! And forever after men blamed women for their own weaknesses.


a cute story to contridict old ideas, also posing the idea of two types of women Eve's and Liliths.

The reality of it was that when Christ dictated how his teaching were to be continued he passed the charge to Mary his wife and so if there were to be a pope it would have been her and a successing line of female leaders in the church. But Saint (and I use that term loosly) Peter in his jelousy was the first to corrupt the message by making women evil so that he could eclipse Mary and give men control of the world.

[kofh2u]

ok as far as i know there is no biblical basis for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being a apple tree. so what was it. hmm it allowed them a different state of mind, just like a mind altering drug such as marijuana. so can it be that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was a "drug tree" and the first battle in the "drug war" was them just listening/not listening to God? and then the "peer pressure" of eve offering adam the fruit? and could it be that since we are decendents from adam and eve that that mind altering chemical remains in our bodys today? since everyone is a decendent of those 2 people the chemical wouldent be diluted or anything and would remain present and that is why people know the difference between right and wrong. and can it be that the mentaly ill who supposudly do not know the difference between right and wrong lack this chemical substance some how?


Gen. 3:5 For God, (the Almighty Power of the Universe) doth know that in the day ye eat (in contemplation) thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened (in Consciousness), and ye shall be as (mythological) gods, knowing good and bad (free willed choices).

[Magdalenbrother]

The Koran tells us that God did not forbid man to eat of any of the trees he had planted in Eden. On the contrary, he encouraged man to gain knowledge from the start.

Frankly, isn't that a much, much better theology?

[anami]

yes

[AcousticJS]

Hey MB,

Do you have a Surah reference for that? I'd just be curious about where it is written.

Thanks
Jon

[anami]

where what is written?
Where it says it makes more sense for God to want us to be knowledgeable as a opposed to ignorant ( which leads to all sorts of horrible things), is that what you mean?
It is, what two posts up and um ooo right up there:ahem:

[AcousticJS]

where what is written?
Where it says it makes more sense for God to want us to be knowledgeable as a opposed to ignorant ( which leads to all sorts of horrible things), is that what you mean?
It is, what two posts up and um ooo right up there:ahem:
What are you talking about? No. I want to know where in the Quran it says that God didn't forbid man to eat from any tree.

[anami]

Any mans corrupted printed word over basic logic.
Congradulation you have found one of the roots of evil that eat off the fertilizer or various religions.

[AcousticJS]

Any mans corrupted printed word over basic logic.
Congradulation you have found one of the roots of evil that eat off the fertilizer or various religions.
Again, I repeat, what are you talking about? I believe I was asking MagdalenBrother a simple factual question, not trying to get esoteric.

[anami]

Sorry, didn't mean to get esoteric as we discuss the words spoken by a large all encompassing invisible man and written down by people who were talkin' to God (a crime people are locked up for today):ale:

[AcousticJS]

Sorry, didn't mean to get esoteric as we discuss the words spoken by a large all encompassing invisible man and written down by people who were talkin' to God (a crime people are locked up for today):ale:

No, you misunderstand me - I don't mind discussing deep theology that may be deemed esoteric by some. However, I generally ask open-ended questions when I want such a debate. Indeed, that is the point of an awful lot of this site, especially when discussing things like predestination/free-will or the exact nature of the church.

But the only reason I entered this thread is to ask a question that can be answered by supplying a simple fact - which Surah says that God didn't forbid adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. I wanted a straight-forward answer along the lines of "Surah 17:29", not a load of non-sensical gobbledegook masquerading as deep wisdom - especially when the question wasn't even directed at the person speaking the gobbledegook.

To use a metaphor, when I ask for Duck a l'Orange, I want Duck a l'Orange. But when I ask for burger and fries, I want burger and fries. I get a little bit annoyed when someone tries to give me posh food when all I've asked for is basic, simple grub. Please desist - unless you have the answer to the straight-forward question I am asking.

To the thread-starter, I'm sorry this is getting rapidly off-topic. This is the last I will say about this now. If Magdalen Brother happens to still be reading this, I would appreciate the Surah reference, or if anyone else can supply it I'd be grateful.

God bless
Jon

[anami]

If you know what you want go ahead and look it up.
Discussions are for people and ideas.
So sorry to stress you out with duck a'lorange when all you wanted was burger and fries.
next time just go right to the prepackaged outlet food dispensary.

[Pilgrim]

Animi, why are you being so had to get along with. Obviously he doesn't know the answer to the question which is why he asked.

I mean, that's also what this forum is about, gaining simple knowledge.

I just had a thought, maybe you don't understand what the Surah is? If that's the case maybe we need to explain further?

[anami]

Animi, why are you being so had to get along with. Obviously he doesn't know the answer to the question which is why he asked.

I mean, that's also what this forum is about, gaining simple knowledge.

I just had a thought, maybe you don't understand what the Surah is? If that's the case maybe we need to explain further?
People who know me in person do not find me so hard to get along with. I think it has to do with a resistance on web boards to new ideas, most people just want to talk about trivial things. Simple knowledge can be found in the books refered to. Obviously he has the book or he would not assume it to be the difinitive place to look for answers. I don't know the passage he was referring to and thought I wwould make a progressive point instead. I thought that was alright in a theology debate forum.

[Pilgrim]

Are you being deliberately thick? He never said he thought it to be "difinitive" [sic].

Someone said the Surah said something, he was asking for a reference so he could read it himself to understand it better. Why is that a bad thing? For one who keeps harping on the need to get knowledge you sure to give someone honestly trying to learn something a hard time.

[anami]

It, of course, is not my intent to limit his knowledge.
It is equally as thick to discourage additional thought, which was what I was arguing.
So is any one going to give him his reference?
I'm sure, if he really cared, he has already found it.
Anyone have any new thought to add to the actual discussion?

[AcousticJS]

It, of course, is not my intent to limit his knowledge.
It is equally as thick to discourage additional thought, which was what I was arguing.
So is any one going to give him his reference?
I'm sure, if he really cared, he has already found it.
Anyone have any new thought to add to the actual discussion?
I agree that it would be wrong to discourage additional thought - however, your replies were completely nonsensical, and didn't seem to advance anything at all apart from confusion and agitation.

You also assumed too much when assuming that I have a copy of the Quran and know it well enough to find the reference myself, let alone that I believe it is definitive. I would have thought that my faith icon would have been enough to show that I don't believe the Quran to be inspired by God - I was interested in knowing the reference for the purpose of future debate/apologetics with Muslims.

For the record, I've contacted MagdalenBrother directly by PM, and he has told me roughly where it is and is going to send the quote to me soon. So, I guess the discussion can get back to whether the Tree of Knowledge was a mind-altering drug.

God bless
Jon

[anami]

Just because you are confused does not mean I will not contribute to a site viewable by millions.
I can add despite your specific requests from the Quran. You got them, why try to shut down the arguement that evolution progresses forward not backward and while it is good to study historical writing, It is not the only way to debate a muslim ;-)
It hard to debate aboutthe tree.
I mean was there a tree?
Maybe it was metaphorical all together.
I think the real question here and with the philosopher question may be whether or not it is ok utilize them yourself.
Of course the original poster would have to tell us that.