Arimathea
December 19th 2004, 02:52 AM
More than a new thread, I am looking for some courageous (and patient) souls who would read this explanation of the Godhead, before I send it to someone who asked me to explain my position. These things are hard to articulate, so I want to find out how well I'm explaining my point, and how it might be improved. This is about 1/2 of the whole article. Of course, you may argue also, if you wish.
Are You “Looking over Jesus’ Shoulder?”
“We see light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
Since the dawn of time, men have pondered the nature of God. This article will make some extremely subtle points concerning this effort, and the author begs your careful attention, and requests you avoid making hasty associations of these ideas with other things you may have heard before. Please understand that it is impossible to qualify every statement against every possible misinterpretation. In the spirit of honest contemplation, we are going to critique some of these theories and point out apparent inconsistencies, and offer an alternative. Our purpose is not opposition to orthodoxy; rather, knowing that the Christian faith has a centuries old tradition of honing and improving its doctrine and practice, we are striving in that spirit to make sure our Christian practice is as Biblical as possible, with respect to developing our “God Concept.” Our critique here centers not so much on the conclusions at which these efforts have arrived, as on the methods used to arrive at them.
In the course of this, examples will be set forth, to illustrate how different methods lead to different results. The danger in this, where the examples are taken from creeds in which any reader may have a vested interest, is we will unintentionally stir up reactions that detract from the larger point. Nonetheless, it seems impossible to communicate our points without using examples. Let it be known at the outset, that we are neither promoting, nor critiquing any creed per se, though we may challenge aspects of them strongly to illustrate the distinction we are exploring.
In the Christian era, enormous effort, and great expense, and the concentration of many minds, have sought to hammer out creeds, which accurately explain God in propositional terms. For example, in one such effort, the final result was the doctrine of the Trinity, which in the end defined the essence of the Creator God as “Three Persons of One Divine Substance.” With this doctrine most of us are familiar.
But let us immediately direct your attention to a fundamental question we believe has been overlooked in this process, and it is this: Has GOD Himself addressed the question? Which question? The question of WHO AND WHAT IS GOD? The question the creeds are aspiring to answer—has God addressed it?
Our answer is yes, He has gone to considerable trouble to address this question, and His answer is: Jesus Christ. As St. John explains: No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18) A careful exegesis of this verse will show that the last phrase may be most accurately rendered “…He has explained Him.”(NKJV)
EXPLAINED, that is, made plain to us, the nature of the Eternal Invisible one, whom no one “hath seen,” both who He is, what His character is, and what His nature is. The person of Jesus EXPLAINED Him, the very thing the creeds aspire to do. We would like to point out right away that we believe the primary situs of this explanation was not so much the words of Jesus, as it was the person of Jesus, modeling out the answer.
In this, we suggest a truth that is both incredibly simple, and universally overlooked. The very question that the creeds have tried endlessly to answer has already been answered by God, and perhaps, just maybe, we simply need look more deeply upon the answer He has provided. The person of Jesus Christ is God’s answer to: Who and what is God? To look past Jesus, “over His shoulder,” if you will, is to look past what God has provided as the perfect answer, and inevitably arrive at one that is “less” perfect.
So why does the question still loom so strongly, such that we can observe a 2000 year history of creed drafting to explain God? Because, God’s answer comes in God’s terms, and creed writing is man’s attempt to have an answer in a language more palatable to him: propositional statements, the “security blanket” of the Western mind. The reason why the creeds never reach the answers they aspire to, is because the medium chosen is not capable of containing the contents. It is divine truth forced into man’s language. God chose Jesus Christ, a Person, to “model out” an answer to the question wholistically, rather than a series of propositional statements, not only because it is an accurate answer, but also because that is the only WAY the question can be answered. He is a “living epistle” seen and read of all men. That wine put it into another wineskin falls short at best, and becomes hopelessly convoluted at worst. Instead of forcing God into our wineskin, perhaps we should be learning to get into His.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
A foundation is what everything is built on, that includes our understanding. If we build an understanding of God that does not issue out of Jesus Christ, that understanding is without foundation to the degree that it cannot be found “in” Him.
Please permit us to offer a few observations born of this kind of thinking. God’s answer has tremendous implications for doctrines such as the Trinity, and curious disparities can be immediately observed. For example, since Jesus Christ is set forth by God Himself as the exact representation of God, that which we are directed to look upon in full confidence, knowing that we are seeing the Truth, the whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth about what God is, one will notice at the outset that Jesus is NOT a Trinity of Father/Son/Holy Spirit. Jesus is one person, one substance. Is this not curious?
In Jesus we see a reflection of God that is consistent with God’s declaration before: “Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is ONE.” If a medium is chosen to represent and reflect the one God of Deut. 6:4, the medium must be one also, or it is a different reflection. Therefore, Jesus is ONE. Of course He is, for He is the fleshly representation of Deut. 6:4 quoted above. He is “reflecting” the one invisible God. So, the logic goes, if Jesus is not a community of “persons” then, God is not a community of “persons” for one is a reflection of the other. This would be comparable to mathematics, where if an equation can be worked from the problem to the answer, the same equation can be worked from the answer back to the problem. “Jesus” is the answer. “What is God?” is the problem. It’s a two-way syllogism. According to the Bible, we can safely project from Jesus back to God, and by that build our understanding of what God is, for that is what He came for. If God is a trinity, and Jesus isn’t, Hebrews 1 is in error:
“Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.”
Anyone who has studied this verse, knows that the term “express image” refers to the process of minting, as in coins, where the “image” is pressed into the “medium” be it metal or wax. In other words, the unseeable and unknowable God, the Eternal Spirit, the Creator, which no one has seen, nor can see, has now been “stamped” into human flesh, and the replica is nothing but EXACT. If God were a trinity, when that trinity was “stamped into the wax” so to speak, the wax (Jesus) would be a trinity. But it is not. The image in the wax, is Jesus Christ, one person.
To “look over Jesus” shoulder, and to see something different (or more, or less) than what is revealed in Him, seems to argue with God’s answer, and may in fact be disrespectful (though unintentionally) of what God is telling us. The trinity “looks over Jesus shoulder” and sees two more persons, and, it would appear, misses the point of what the incarnation is for. We are not supposed to be looking past Jesus to understand God, we are supposed to be looking at Jesus!
(we see) “…the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (2 Cor. 4:6)
The names of Jesus also bear this out, as in Rev. 3:14 where Jesus is called the “faithful and true witness.”
Faithful and True Witness of what? Of God of course, which is why He could say,
“He who has seen me hath seen the father.” (John 14:9) He is the only one who has seen God, and is presenting to us a “faithful and true witness” of the unseeable.
Just how “Faithful and True” of a witness is He, if God is in fact a Trinity in heaven, and Jesus is a single person on earth? He is, in that case, a false witness.
GOD, as understood from the scriptures, is too big for us to see. How do you see an infinite being? You would have to back up infinitely far to view Him. The scriptures also make it clear that God is a Spirit. Jesus was reflecting that Spirit on earth.
It is ONE SPIRIT throughout the bible. So the three designations share at least one thing in common, and that is a single Spirit. The Spirit who is Holy encompasses all that is in the Godhead. “HOLY” is an adjective used to describe that ONE Spirit. So the whole phrase is…
THE (singular definite article) HOLY (descriptive adjective) SPIRIT (noun)
“By ONE SPIRIT we are all baptized into one body.” 1 Cor. 12:13 (Which “spirit” of the three was it who baptized us into one body? The singular “Holy” one, or one of the others?)
The term “Holy Spirit,” is used interchangeably in the Bible with the term “Spirit of Christ.” (Rom. 8:9) Why? Perhaps it should be obvious. They are one and the same.
Most creeds were drafted with the best of intentions. But what we are suggesting for you to consider is this: God has already given us something better than a creed to understand Him by. The great, eternal, Spirit, carrying a multitude of characteristics to reveal to us, characteristics such as “Fatherhood” and the fact that He is a “Spirit,” and also a “Redeemer,” “Creator,” the list goes on and on, is beyond our ability to see. This Great Spirit stepped into Human flesh, and at the same time was beyond it, but had localized Himself in a place where we could see, handle, and understand Him.
Whom did JESUS come to reveal? That Spirit. The creeds would have it that He came to reveal the “Son.” But His own testimony refutes that. “I came to reveal the FATHER.” (Matt. 11:27, Luke 10:22) HE says so. Dare we believe Him on this point? He did not come to reveal a secondary being; He did not even come to reveal the “son,” though that took place. He came to reveal the FATHER, the Invisible Eternal one. That was the whole point!
If God’s answer is Jesus, this fact creates friction with every creedal attempt, including “Oneness” or “Jesus Only.” At the risk of oversimplification, these doctrines assert that Jesus WAS the Father, i.e. “I am my own Father.” There is a distinction that must be made here, fine, but extremely important. In Jesus, we are seeing an Infinite Eternal Being condescended and localized. If the “Father” is defined as that part of God that is in eternity, filling all space and time, unseeable, Jesus was most certainly NOT that. Quite the opposite. Nor did the Eternal Spirit ever cease to fill all space and time, simply because He had become localized to show Himself to us. Therefore, it is quite inaccurate to say that Jesus WAS the Father, and much more accurate to put it the way He Himself put it, “the Father INDWELLS me.” (John 14:10)
Which “Mystery?”
This, the mystery of the incarnation, is different than the “mystery of the trinity” which simply put, is: how can God be three people and one person? That is indeed a mystery, but it is not the mystery that the Bible talks about. The Bible never declares that to be a mystery. The Bible places its great emphasis not on the mystery of the trinity, but on mystery of the incarnation of God. This we find clearly affirmed in the Bible. God being manifest in the flesh is a great mystery.
The scriptures will be searched in vain to find any communication between the HOLY SPIRIT and the FATHER.1 (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=14#_ftn1) This is because, we suggest, they are the same thing: The infinite God, described with different adjectives, “Holy,” and “Father.” But between the Son and the Father, there is constant dialog. God in Human Flesh, fellowshipping with God in Eternity. This is the channel that Jesus Christ opened up.
...Looking for God in all the wrong places?
It is not so much that the doctrines of Trinity, and Oneness are wrong, though we believe they contain mixed truth and error, but our point is that they are unnecessary. They distract from what God has provided for us. They get us thinking about other things, but perhaps more importantly, they get us thinking in a different way. There is no scripture in the bible that these doctrines are necessary to explain, though they attempt to satisfy the mind by offering explanations to some things that may be puzzling. But the scripture stands well enough without this aid. The explanations are not necessary in light of what God has provided. We all are packing some degree of error. But reducing God to a creed does not solve this; it introduces another error—indeed another kind of error.
The creeds did not keep the church from error, but they added the error of distraction from God’s answer: Jesus Christ. He is unmixed truth. The creeds have gone through many evolutions, which testifies to the fact that they have been a mixture in need of constant refining. Even today no one can agree precisely on the wording. Words themselves evolve in meaning over time, and mean different things to different people. This makes the whole medium a moving canvas. This is an ill-equipped medium to contain the facts about God. How can you paint an immutable God on a moving canvas? Since Jesus Christ remains the same, He is well equipped, if for no other reason. Look at what we learn about God through Him. We know that God is a healer. How do we know it? Because Jesus is a healer. We know that God is a Redeemer. How do we know it? Because Jesus is a Redeemer. He is bringing an accurate report. We know that God is One. How do we know it? Because Jesus is One. He is the “faithful and true witness” of the unseeable God. He is the invisible God stamped into flesh. We know God is not a trinity of persons. How do we know it? Because Jesus is not a trinity of persons. In Him we find all these answers. Look away from Him, and we find other answers.
When we look at Jesus and then immediately try to tack on a creed to explain God, perhaps we have not grasped what we have seen--perhaps we do not, “get it.” Explaining God is what the incarnation was FOR.
…Eat what is set before you…
Can the trinity and other godhead doctrines be damaging? Yes indeed, very much so. Such things are intruders into realms which God reserved for His Son alone: the Declaration of God. He is the only one worthy of doing that work, the only one with first hand information. They boldly charge in where Angels fear to tread, aspiring to do what God has ordained Christ alone to do. To that extent, they are at cross-purposes with God, offering an alternative construct for the mind to think upon, other than what God placed before men.
If one person were to devote all of his energy towards understanding God through Jesus, and another were to devote all of his energy towards understanding God through the doctrine of the trinity-- if these two people were ever to meet and describe their idea of “God” they would tell you completely different things. One would think that they were describing two different Gods. Perhaps they are. What is in their minds is also what they worship. One worships a mental construct in which he sees three beings. Another worships a great eternal God made known in a person.
One of the reasons the trinity doctrine is considered necessary is because it attempts to explain the apparent plurality of God. We believe there is plurality in the story, but it is the plurality of one God in two different dimensions, the Eternal God stepping into time and creation. The Spirit who exists in Eternity, and the Logos who exists in time, who then became Flesh on Earth. God is both at once, and the two dialog, especially the man part of Jesus with the God part in Him and above Him. They are in constant fellowship, a community, foreshadowing of what Jesus is making available to all who will believe: fellowship with God.
Jesus explains this to the worshipper via relationship with Him. In communing with Jesus, one’s understanding of God is forming automatically. One becomes aware that there is a great Being standing behind Him, and in Him. That is the humbling revelation. You become aware that in Jesus this infinite unknowable Being is drawing near. You see them both, yet they are one in nature and purpose. You see the God of infinity coming to you, in a man. Having begun in the Spirit, finish not in the flesh. He has authored our understanding, He can finish it. Having met God in Jesus, we ought not suddenly look outside of Jesus to finish our construct, and translate that Being into clumsy creedal verbiage. We ought to look through Jesus, and see that great person, His character, and nature. In this, we may develop a relationship. You cannot develop a “relationship” with a mental construct. You can promote it, articulate it, argue about it, but you cannot be “friends” with it.
“One Way!”
It may (or perhaps should) go without saying, but God does not want to have a relationship with us outside of Jesus Christ. In fact, He won’t. Jesus is the channel that God has designed for this very purpose, so that we could know Him. Jesus Christ is the “One Way,” but He is more than just the “One Way” for atonement, and forgiveness of sins. He is our model of God, the “One Way” God has given us to form our understanding, and nothing else will do.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true…(1 John 5:20)
Coming to understand God through the divinely provided channel of Jesus Christ is not one option among many that we may freely pick and choose from. It is God’s choice. It is the birthright of every Christian. But this birthright can be sold for a mess of ecclesiastical pottage. The creeds act like Rodeo clowns, competing for our attention. Jesus is what God has set before us to eat. Are we cooperating?
“For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col 2:9) Not 1/3 of the Godhead, ALL of it, which guarantees a full understanding of the Godhead is seen via looking at Him. If the Godhead is a triangle of persons, that’s what we would see in Jesus. And notice again “Dwelleth IN,” the same expression that Jesus used to describe it. This language is used consistently to describe it throughout the scripture. The trinity doctrine subtly yet tragically diminishes this, and confuses the issue. Oneness doctrine misses on the other side, by losing track of the distinction between the Father and the Son. Jesus cannot be His own Father; He is begotten of the Father. And all creeds are in competition with Jesus Christ as the “express image” of God revealed.
The incarnation, God in heaven, becoming God on earth is the great story of the Bible. When Jesus refers to His “Father in Heaven,” to whom is He referring? At His conception, the angel says of Mary, “…what is conceived of her is of the Holy Ghost.” (Matt. 1:18,20) The Holy Ghost conceived Jesus, therefore the Holy Ghost IS His father in Heaven, for who conceives but a “Father?” Jesus goes on to talk about this Heavenly Father all through His life. Jesus on Earth, and His Spirit/Father in Heaven.
In the unfolding story, God up there, becoming God down here, everything necessary is finished. As the scripture says, “…in the Father and in Christ… are ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Col. 2:2-3)This does not leave much for any third party to do. The incarnation, God into flesh, is the whole story. If there is any wisdom and knowledge to be found, it is in the Father and Christ, nowhere else, according to the scripture. The Son and the Father together, in the story of the incarnation, make up the “True God.” (John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20) The Holy Spirit is not left out; He is included in all of this, for He is the Heavenly Father of Jesus.
That is why it says…
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (1John 2:23) All the knowledge of God, including knowledge of His nature and being, move through this channel. Nothing is left out. While creeds are static, God came into us in this unfolding story. Instead of holding in our minds a “snapshot,” an eternal triangle, we perhaps should be watching the “film reel” God coming down, and learning all along the way.
Ari
1 (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=14#_ftnref1) Every scripture in the Bible cannot be addressed in a footnote, but John 15-17 is often offered as an refutation of this, in verses such as 16:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” NKJV Jesus seems to be giving “personalities” to the designations of Father, and Holy Spirit. What is overlooked, is that Jesus is speaking figuratively, and he says so, when his disciples become confused by these statements. Vs. 25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language, but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. Then in verse 29, the disciples confess understanding him now. The whole discussion starts in chapter 14, and concludes after 17, and it is not until Jesus tells them that He is speaking figuratively about how God will come to them in the dispensations of Son and Holy Spirit, that they “get it.” God coming to men through these changing dispensations will have the appearance of different personalities. This is a Biblically endorsed “thought tool” to understand the unfolding actions of God, as long as you understand it is not the eternal “nature” of God. John 16:28 is the “literal” part. The personification language is the figurative part. The trinity doctrine takes the figurative and makes it literal, and takes the literal and makes it figurative. The literal part is clearly verse 28, “I (Jesus) came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.” It is this, not the figurative speech, upon which we are building our understanding.
Are You “Looking over Jesus’ Shoulder?”
“We see light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”
Since the dawn of time, men have pondered the nature of God. This article will make some extremely subtle points concerning this effort, and the author begs your careful attention, and requests you avoid making hasty associations of these ideas with other things you may have heard before. Please understand that it is impossible to qualify every statement against every possible misinterpretation. In the spirit of honest contemplation, we are going to critique some of these theories and point out apparent inconsistencies, and offer an alternative. Our purpose is not opposition to orthodoxy; rather, knowing that the Christian faith has a centuries old tradition of honing and improving its doctrine and practice, we are striving in that spirit to make sure our Christian practice is as Biblical as possible, with respect to developing our “God Concept.” Our critique here centers not so much on the conclusions at which these efforts have arrived, as on the methods used to arrive at them.
In the course of this, examples will be set forth, to illustrate how different methods lead to different results. The danger in this, where the examples are taken from creeds in which any reader may have a vested interest, is we will unintentionally stir up reactions that detract from the larger point. Nonetheless, it seems impossible to communicate our points without using examples. Let it be known at the outset, that we are neither promoting, nor critiquing any creed per se, though we may challenge aspects of them strongly to illustrate the distinction we are exploring.
In the Christian era, enormous effort, and great expense, and the concentration of many minds, have sought to hammer out creeds, which accurately explain God in propositional terms. For example, in one such effort, the final result was the doctrine of the Trinity, which in the end defined the essence of the Creator God as “Three Persons of One Divine Substance.” With this doctrine most of us are familiar.
But let us immediately direct your attention to a fundamental question we believe has been overlooked in this process, and it is this: Has GOD Himself addressed the question? Which question? The question of WHO AND WHAT IS GOD? The question the creeds are aspiring to answer—has God addressed it?
Our answer is yes, He has gone to considerable trouble to address this question, and His answer is: Jesus Christ. As St. John explains: No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18) A careful exegesis of this verse will show that the last phrase may be most accurately rendered “…He has explained Him.”(NKJV)
EXPLAINED, that is, made plain to us, the nature of the Eternal Invisible one, whom no one “hath seen,” both who He is, what His character is, and what His nature is. The person of Jesus EXPLAINED Him, the very thing the creeds aspire to do. We would like to point out right away that we believe the primary situs of this explanation was not so much the words of Jesus, as it was the person of Jesus, modeling out the answer.
In this, we suggest a truth that is both incredibly simple, and universally overlooked. The very question that the creeds have tried endlessly to answer has already been answered by God, and perhaps, just maybe, we simply need look more deeply upon the answer He has provided. The person of Jesus Christ is God’s answer to: Who and what is God? To look past Jesus, “over His shoulder,” if you will, is to look past what God has provided as the perfect answer, and inevitably arrive at one that is “less” perfect.
So why does the question still loom so strongly, such that we can observe a 2000 year history of creed drafting to explain God? Because, God’s answer comes in God’s terms, and creed writing is man’s attempt to have an answer in a language more palatable to him: propositional statements, the “security blanket” of the Western mind. The reason why the creeds never reach the answers they aspire to, is because the medium chosen is not capable of containing the contents. It is divine truth forced into man’s language. God chose Jesus Christ, a Person, to “model out” an answer to the question wholistically, rather than a series of propositional statements, not only because it is an accurate answer, but also because that is the only WAY the question can be answered. He is a “living epistle” seen and read of all men. That wine put it into another wineskin falls short at best, and becomes hopelessly convoluted at worst. Instead of forcing God into our wineskin, perhaps we should be learning to get into His.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
A foundation is what everything is built on, that includes our understanding. If we build an understanding of God that does not issue out of Jesus Christ, that understanding is without foundation to the degree that it cannot be found “in” Him.
Please permit us to offer a few observations born of this kind of thinking. God’s answer has tremendous implications for doctrines such as the Trinity, and curious disparities can be immediately observed. For example, since Jesus Christ is set forth by God Himself as the exact representation of God, that which we are directed to look upon in full confidence, knowing that we are seeing the Truth, the whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth about what God is, one will notice at the outset that Jesus is NOT a Trinity of Father/Son/Holy Spirit. Jesus is one person, one substance. Is this not curious?
In Jesus we see a reflection of God that is consistent with God’s declaration before: “Hear Oh Israel, the Lord your God is ONE.” If a medium is chosen to represent and reflect the one God of Deut. 6:4, the medium must be one also, or it is a different reflection. Therefore, Jesus is ONE. Of course He is, for He is the fleshly representation of Deut. 6:4 quoted above. He is “reflecting” the one invisible God. So, the logic goes, if Jesus is not a community of “persons” then, God is not a community of “persons” for one is a reflection of the other. This would be comparable to mathematics, where if an equation can be worked from the problem to the answer, the same equation can be worked from the answer back to the problem. “Jesus” is the answer. “What is God?” is the problem. It’s a two-way syllogism. According to the Bible, we can safely project from Jesus back to God, and by that build our understanding of what God is, for that is what He came for. If God is a trinity, and Jesus isn’t, Hebrews 1 is in error:
“Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.”
Anyone who has studied this verse, knows that the term “express image” refers to the process of minting, as in coins, where the “image” is pressed into the “medium” be it metal or wax. In other words, the unseeable and unknowable God, the Eternal Spirit, the Creator, which no one has seen, nor can see, has now been “stamped” into human flesh, and the replica is nothing but EXACT. If God were a trinity, when that trinity was “stamped into the wax” so to speak, the wax (Jesus) would be a trinity. But it is not. The image in the wax, is Jesus Christ, one person.
To “look over Jesus” shoulder, and to see something different (or more, or less) than what is revealed in Him, seems to argue with God’s answer, and may in fact be disrespectful (though unintentionally) of what God is telling us. The trinity “looks over Jesus shoulder” and sees two more persons, and, it would appear, misses the point of what the incarnation is for. We are not supposed to be looking past Jesus to understand God, we are supposed to be looking at Jesus!
(we see) “…the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (2 Cor. 4:6)
The names of Jesus also bear this out, as in Rev. 3:14 where Jesus is called the “faithful and true witness.”
Faithful and True Witness of what? Of God of course, which is why He could say,
“He who has seen me hath seen the father.” (John 14:9) He is the only one who has seen God, and is presenting to us a “faithful and true witness” of the unseeable.
Just how “Faithful and True” of a witness is He, if God is in fact a Trinity in heaven, and Jesus is a single person on earth? He is, in that case, a false witness.
GOD, as understood from the scriptures, is too big for us to see. How do you see an infinite being? You would have to back up infinitely far to view Him. The scriptures also make it clear that God is a Spirit. Jesus was reflecting that Spirit on earth.
It is ONE SPIRIT throughout the bible. So the three designations share at least one thing in common, and that is a single Spirit. The Spirit who is Holy encompasses all that is in the Godhead. “HOLY” is an adjective used to describe that ONE Spirit. So the whole phrase is…
THE (singular definite article) HOLY (descriptive adjective) SPIRIT (noun)
“By ONE SPIRIT we are all baptized into one body.” 1 Cor. 12:13 (Which “spirit” of the three was it who baptized us into one body? The singular “Holy” one, or one of the others?)
The term “Holy Spirit,” is used interchangeably in the Bible with the term “Spirit of Christ.” (Rom. 8:9) Why? Perhaps it should be obvious. They are one and the same.
Most creeds were drafted with the best of intentions. But what we are suggesting for you to consider is this: God has already given us something better than a creed to understand Him by. The great, eternal, Spirit, carrying a multitude of characteristics to reveal to us, characteristics such as “Fatherhood” and the fact that He is a “Spirit,” and also a “Redeemer,” “Creator,” the list goes on and on, is beyond our ability to see. This Great Spirit stepped into Human flesh, and at the same time was beyond it, but had localized Himself in a place where we could see, handle, and understand Him.
Whom did JESUS come to reveal? That Spirit. The creeds would have it that He came to reveal the “Son.” But His own testimony refutes that. “I came to reveal the FATHER.” (Matt. 11:27, Luke 10:22) HE says so. Dare we believe Him on this point? He did not come to reveal a secondary being; He did not even come to reveal the “son,” though that took place. He came to reveal the FATHER, the Invisible Eternal one. That was the whole point!
If God’s answer is Jesus, this fact creates friction with every creedal attempt, including “Oneness” or “Jesus Only.” At the risk of oversimplification, these doctrines assert that Jesus WAS the Father, i.e. “I am my own Father.” There is a distinction that must be made here, fine, but extremely important. In Jesus, we are seeing an Infinite Eternal Being condescended and localized. If the “Father” is defined as that part of God that is in eternity, filling all space and time, unseeable, Jesus was most certainly NOT that. Quite the opposite. Nor did the Eternal Spirit ever cease to fill all space and time, simply because He had become localized to show Himself to us. Therefore, it is quite inaccurate to say that Jesus WAS the Father, and much more accurate to put it the way He Himself put it, “the Father INDWELLS me.” (John 14:10)
Which “Mystery?”
This, the mystery of the incarnation, is different than the “mystery of the trinity” which simply put, is: how can God be three people and one person? That is indeed a mystery, but it is not the mystery that the Bible talks about. The Bible never declares that to be a mystery. The Bible places its great emphasis not on the mystery of the trinity, but on mystery of the incarnation of God. This we find clearly affirmed in the Bible. God being manifest in the flesh is a great mystery.
The scriptures will be searched in vain to find any communication between the HOLY SPIRIT and the FATHER.1 (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=14#_ftn1) This is because, we suggest, they are the same thing: The infinite God, described with different adjectives, “Holy,” and “Father.” But between the Son and the Father, there is constant dialog. God in Human Flesh, fellowshipping with God in Eternity. This is the channel that Jesus Christ opened up.
...Looking for God in all the wrong places?
It is not so much that the doctrines of Trinity, and Oneness are wrong, though we believe they contain mixed truth and error, but our point is that they are unnecessary. They distract from what God has provided for us. They get us thinking about other things, but perhaps more importantly, they get us thinking in a different way. There is no scripture in the bible that these doctrines are necessary to explain, though they attempt to satisfy the mind by offering explanations to some things that may be puzzling. But the scripture stands well enough without this aid. The explanations are not necessary in light of what God has provided. We all are packing some degree of error. But reducing God to a creed does not solve this; it introduces another error—indeed another kind of error.
The creeds did not keep the church from error, but they added the error of distraction from God’s answer: Jesus Christ. He is unmixed truth. The creeds have gone through many evolutions, which testifies to the fact that they have been a mixture in need of constant refining. Even today no one can agree precisely on the wording. Words themselves evolve in meaning over time, and mean different things to different people. This makes the whole medium a moving canvas. This is an ill-equipped medium to contain the facts about God. How can you paint an immutable God on a moving canvas? Since Jesus Christ remains the same, He is well equipped, if for no other reason. Look at what we learn about God through Him. We know that God is a healer. How do we know it? Because Jesus is a healer. We know that God is a Redeemer. How do we know it? Because Jesus is a Redeemer. He is bringing an accurate report. We know that God is One. How do we know it? Because Jesus is One. He is the “faithful and true witness” of the unseeable God. He is the invisible God stamped into flesh. We know God is not a trinity of persons. How do we know it? Because Jesus is not a trinity of persons. In Him we find all these answers. Look away from Him, and we find other answers.
When we look at Jesus and then immediately try to tack on a creed to explain God, perhaps we have not grasped what we have seen--perhaps we do not, “get it.” Explaining God is what the incarnation was FOR.
…Eat what is set before you…
Can the trinity and other godhead doctrines be damaging? Yes indeed, very much so. Such things are intruders into realms which God reserved for His Son alone: the Declaration of God. He is the only one worthy of doing that work, the only one with first hand information. They boldly charge in where Angels fear to tread, aspiring to do what God has ordained Christ alone to do. To that extent, they are at cross-purposes with God, offering an alternative construct for the mind to think upon, other than what God placed before men.
If one person were to devote all of his energy towards understanding God through Jesus, and another were to devote all of his energy towards understanding God through the doctrine of the trinity-- if these two people were ever to meet and describe their idea of “God” they would tell you completely different things. One would think that they were describing two different Gods. Perhaps they are. What is in their minds is also what they worship. One worships a mental construct in which he sees three beings. Another worships a great eternal God made known in a person.
One of the reasons the trinity doctrine is considered necessary is because it attempts to explain the apparent plurality of God. We believe there is plurality in the story, but it is the plurality of one God in two different dimensions, the Eternal God stepping into time and creation. The Spirit who exists in Eternity, and the Logos who exists in time, who then became Flesh on Earth. God is both at once, and the two dialog, especially the man part of Jesus with the God part in Him and above Him. They are in constant fellowship, a community, foreshadowing of what Jesus is making available to all who will believe: fellowship with God.
Jesus explains this to the worshipper via relationship with Him. In communing with Jesus, one’s understanding of God is forming automatically. One becomes aware that there is a great Being standing behind Him, and in Him. That is the humbling revelation. You become aware that in Jesus this infinite unknowable Being is drawing near. You see them both, yet they are one in nature and purpose. You see the God of infinity coming to you, in a man. Having begun in the Spirit, finish not in the flesh. He has authored our understanding, He can finish it. Having met God in Jesus, we ought not suddenly look outside of Jesus to finish our construct, and translate that Being into clumsy creedal verbiage. We ought to look through Jesus, and see that great person, His character, and nature. In this, we may develop a relationship. You cannot develop a “relationship” with a mental construct. You can promote it, articulate it, argue about it, but you cannot be “friends” with it.
“One Way!”
It may (or perhaps should) go without saying, but God does not want to have a relationship with us outside of Jesus Christ. In fact, He won’t. Jesus is the channel that God has designed for this very purpose, so that we could know Him. Jesus Christ is the “One Way,” but He is more than just the “One Way” for atonement, and forgiveness of sins. He is our model of God, the “One Way” God has given us to form our understanding, and nothing else will do.
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true…(1 John 5:20)
Coming to understand God through the divinely provided channel of Jesus Christ is not one option among many that we may freely pick and choose from. It is God’s choice. It is the birthright of every Christian. But this birthright can be sold for a mess of ecclesiastical pottage. The creeds act like Rodeo clowns, competing for our attention. Jesus is what God has set before us to eat. Are we cooperating?
“For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col 2:9) Not 1/3 of the Godhead, ALL of it, which guarantees a full understanding of the Godhead is seen via looking at Him. If the Godhead is a triangle of persons, that’s what we would see in Jesus. And notice again “Dwelleth IN,” the same expression that Jesus used to describe it. This language is used consistently to describe it throughout the scripture. The trinity doctrine subtly yet tragically diminishes this, and confuses the issue. Oneness doctrine misses on the other side, by losing track of the distinction between the Father and the Son. Jesus cannot be His own Father; He is begotten of the Father. And all creeds are in competition with Jesus Christ as the “express image” of God revealed.
The incarnation, God in heaven, becoming God on earth is the great story of the Bible. When Jesus refers to His “Father in Heaven,” to whom is He referring? At His conception, the angel says of Mary, “…what is conceived of her is of the Holy Ghost.” (Matt. 1:18,20) The Holy Ghost conceived Jesus, therefore the Holy Ghost IS His father in Heaven, for who conceives but a “Father?” Jesus goes on to talk about this Heavenly Father all through His life. Jesus on Earth, and His Spirit/Father in Heaven.
In the unfolding story, God up there, becoming God down here, everything necessary is finished. As the scripture says, “…in the Father and in Christ… are ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Col. 2:2-3)This does not leave much for any third party to do. The incarnation, God into flesh, is the whole story. If there is any wisdom and knowledge to be found, it is in the Father and Christ, nowhere else, according to the scripture. The Son and the Father together, in the story of the incarnation, make up the “True God.” (John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20) The Holy Spirit is not left out; He is included in all of this, for He is the Heavenly Father of Jesus.
That is why it says…
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (1John 2:23) All the knowledge of God, including knowledge of His nature and being, move through this channel. Nothing is left out. While creeds are static, God came into us in this unfolding story. Instead of holding in our minds a “snapshot,” an eternal triangle, we perhaps should be watching the “film reel” God coming down, and learning all along the way.
Ari
1 (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=14#_ftnref1) Every scripture in the Bible cannot be addressed in a footnote, but John 15-17 is often offered as an refutation of this, in verses such as 16:26 “When the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” NKJV Jesus seems to be giving “personalities” to the designations of Father, and Holy Spirit. What is overlooked, is that Jesus is speaking figuratively, and he says so, when his disciples become confused by these statements. Vs. 25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language, but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. Then in verse 29, the disciples confess understanding him now. The whole discussion starts in chapter 14, and concludes after 17, and it is not until Jesus tells them that He is speaking figuratively about how God will come to them in the dispensations of Son and Holy Spirit, that they “get it.” God coming to men through these changing dispensations will have the appearance of different personalities. This is a Biblically endorsed “thought tool” to understand the unfolding actions of God, as long as you understand it is not the eternal “nature” of God. John 16:28 is the “literal” part. The personification language is the figurative part. The trinity doctrine takes the figurative and makes it literal, and takes the literal and makes it figurative. The literal part is clearly verse 28, “I (Jesus) came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.” It is this, not the figurative speech, upon which we are building our understanding.