The Jesus Aeon [Archive] - TheologyWeb Campus

Vivian

February 7th 2005, 12:09 AM

THE JESUS AEON

Every human being possesses an individual magnetic radiation field (aura), which is populated by that person’s thoughts and desires, colored by the quality and nature of the thought and desire that fills it, and this personal field, being magnetic, both attracts and repels certain powers and forces from the surrounding planetary aura. This is the nature of the human microcosm: man is an electromagnetic being.

When a person reacts upon an impulse or idea, the result of such a reaction - be it a thought, a wish, a fear, an expression of jealousy or ire, etc. - lingers in the creator's immediate atmosphere and possesses a potency and longevity that is directly proportional to the measure or intensity of the reaction. If this reaction is repeated, the force radiated by it is strengthened, ad infinitum.

Collectively, mankind constitutes a much larger thinking-desiring organism, and the sum total of the thoughts and desires in the auras of all the people that together make up mankind, interpenetrate and form what might be termed a 'radiation cloud' around the planet. This cloud is replete with the results of all human thinking, feeling and desiring, not only from causes created in the present but also from the past, for thought and astral energy creates certain elemental forms that can and do survive their creator in the flesh. There is, then, clearly an interaction between human microcosms and the planetary atmosphere; the human microcosms contribute toward the quality of subtle substance of the planetary aura in the form of mental, astral and etheric matter. In the beginning phase of man's microcosmic descent, or 'Fall from Grace' (the Garden of Eden days) the psychic atmosphere of this world was still virginal, void of these human emanations. However, with the passage of time they came into manifestation and are forever being strengthened by mankind's incessant ignorant and selfish activity.

Now what happens when many hundreds, sometimes many thousands, or even, over time, billions of people continuously project similar selfish or fear-based thoughts and desires (which include religious desires for personal salvation, personal empowerment, personal happiness, etc.)? Just think of the selfish prayers repeated endlessly in the churches; the wild enthusiasm of the crowds at football games; the mass outbursts of passion during blood-stirring political demonstrations or evangelistic speeches; the daily repeated negative suggestions in the media that are supposedly formulated in order to enlighten the masses and the millions of people who are all tuned in to the same violent TV programs simultaneously!

Like attracts like, and the corresponding vibrations thus launched into the atmosphere coalesce to form one great cloud of unwholesome energy. It is an elementary esoteric fact that when, over time, many people fix their minds upon one idea, a mighty astral image of that idea develops. The astral world possesses specific possibilities of reflection. So when the minds of many of us are continually fixed upon one and the same idea, then we shall discover that at a given moment a huge astral image has been generated, which is becoming clear and well-defined, and with which we are connected and in communication because we created it ourselves. It is thus that a collective spirit, a collective idea, a collective thought-form or a collective image is created and continuously fed by people of similar disposition and/or belief.

Over centuries such an image can and does become so fortified that it acquires consciousness and becomes an intelligent, self-directing being; a huge, living, feeding elemental being that has an agenda: namely to perpetuate and fortify its own existence and nature. This it proceeds to do by inciting mankind, via mental and astral impression, to continue producing ethers of a like quality on which it can feed, on which it can grow. At first it is an image 'with dead eyes', but the moment comes when this image gains life and begins to hunger for more of the peculiar type of energy that spawned it. This is when it starts actually dominating us, when certain powers radiate from it and when it is even capable of attracting all kinds of undivine forces and of pouring these down onto the people. This is the way in which pseudo-religious beings (false gods) come into being. Such gigantic elemental beings can be and are utilized by the 'archons': entities residing in the subtle worlds who, with selfish and malefic intent, control and manipulate the mass-consciousness of humanity on earth by way of the images that man himself created.

This fact is explained in the metaphysical literature of all times. These elemental beings are sometimes called 'aeons', and they group themselves into different aspects. If, for example, a person wishes for financial wealth and radiates this desire into the atmosphere by means of his auric field, then this radiation will unite with the corresponding radiations of all other people in the world who want to be wealthy. In this way, an increasingly powerful aeon of wealth develops in the atmosphere, and will then naturally endeavor to influence all humanity continually. There are many kinds of aeons, and the religious type is particularly large, powerful and inimical because it bestows upon its servants both psychic stimulation (which may lead to astral visions that are quite convincing to the uninitiated) as well as a sense of being a part of something larger and more important than the individual. There was an aeon behind the Roman Catholic Inquisition, the Crusades, the witch-burnings and all the other atrocities perpetrated by the Church in the name of Jesus!

And today the Jesus-aeon is still very much alive and active within the consciousness of all people who cling selfishly to the Jesus-image for their own 'safety' and personal salvation. It is wholly invested in maintaining itself and in augmenting its temporal power and influence in this world by inciting religious fundamentalists to attack or defend on behalf of the Jesus-idea, on behalf, therefore, of separation, ignorance and selfishness.

So should we be surprised when the fundamentalists cry 'heathen' or 'fear monger' when such facts are revealed in order to help them to understand and to free themselves of detrimental aeonic influence? Of course not, for the servant (or puppet) of the aeons means life-insurance for them, and so when the very foundation of the counterfeit life of the aeons is threatened by way of revealing the truth (together with the peculiar attitudes and belief systems it promotes within the consciousness of its human subordinates), fear will naturally arise, and most often it is projected directly onto the messenger who is only holding up a mirror by being simply true. This explains the great hatred (fear) of Jesus that led to his crucifixion, a hatred and fear that has not abated in this world today and which is galvanized far beyond its natural human range by the hidden forces of darkness, by the aeons and their controlling archons, of which the uninitiated man understands very little if anything at all and so is why he can be duped, even and often under religious pretences!

Essentially, any man who cleaves to Jesus for personal reasons will automatically be hooked up to the 2,000 year-old now powerful and hungry Jesus-aeon by way of his own quality of thought and desire, while the one who reveres Jesus for his life-demonstration in humble devotion to the universal PRINCIPLE that he exemplified will transcend the need to identify with the Jesus-personality altogether and evoke a response from the formless Divinity (Christ) Itself. And this is the beginning of the path that leads to Deliverance...

TuckEverlasting

February 7th 2005, 12:19 AM

What evidence do you have for this, Vivian?

Vivian

February 7th 2005, 04:52 AM

What evidence do you have for this, Vivian?

The evidence begins with touching that child of God within ourselves and seeing that it has no desires for self but simply exists to serve and love God and others.

And then we wonder what happened to make us each so focused on our separate identity with all its personal needs and desires, or to put it bluntly why are we so selfish? The child of God is pure and innocent seeking only the kingdom, but if we are honest we will admit that most of our thoughts revolve around ourselves, making us the center of the universe instead of God. Why is this? Why, if God has and will provide all that we need, are we so concerned with our own survival, pleasure and vanity?

It is because of our fallen state and the influence of the enemy – thought forms, demons, etc – on our thoughts.

In a fallen state our minds are veiled, stuck and so will use circular logic to justify our beliefs ideas and opinions. Just look at all the members on this campus, or even, look out into the world. Most people are thoroughly convinced they are right and everyone with a differing idea is wrong.

What has happened is that our minds are trapped, imprisoned by the enemies’ influence. Each of us are under the influence of differing enemies, that is why our truths vary.

Breaking free from their influence means finding the Truth that brings freedom. This requires that we come humbly and innocently as a child with pure heart and sincerity before the True Teacher and He will reveal all.

When I began to learn about thought forms and aeons and the other enemies from the astral realm it all made sense. All the confusion and lies and wars that dominate this world are not coming from us but through us from the enemy.

I saw the jesus aeon not only in its manipulation of others, but also in how it influenced me. Part of the journey was letting go of my own circular logic.

When an aeon is encountered now though, I can recognize its attempts to influence my thoughts and if do not engage the thoughts (feed them) they will just come and go.

Aeons are why advertising works. The advertisers collectively create an aeon with their thoughts of the product and as you watch the commercial thoughts of wanting the product are placed by the aeon into your mind. Most of us see through advertising, but few realize that the same enemies exist in every corner of the world.

Since we are truly innocence, purity and selflessness, if we find ourselves moving towards self regard or materialistic concerns in our thought life in any way, most likely an enemy is attempting to influence us.

As we look within ourselves honestly, we will begin to see how the enemy has been at work in us. And then we will see clearly the same in others so it is no longer simply a belief, but now something that is known experientially.

I will post another article about thought forms.

If you are interested in seeing if this is True, just watch with a sincere heart and an open cup and the Teacher will show you.

vivian

Vivian

February 7th 2005, 04:55 AM

THOUGHT-FORMS

The birth of thought-forms

The mental plane is an extremely subtle realm of thought. It pervades, affects and is affected by all thinking life. When a thought is produced by man, an independent thought-form comes into being upon the mental plane. When a thought is projected by another person, depending on the quality of our own thinking or psychological state, we may act unconsciously as receivers and consequently take on the character of that same thought ourselves; energy attracts like energy. If this same projected thought-form is accompanied by emotion, as it would be if it were a desirous thought, it is enshrouded with a life-force on the astral plane which is proportional in intensity to the emotion which gave birth to it. Mankind is affected very differently by what exists on the astral plane than that on the mental plane, as the former is the realm of emotions which may be more instantaneously influential and potentially more treacherous to us than mere passing thoughts alone.

'The mission '

As thoughts and emotions are born, they take on a life and semi-intelligence of their own, their prime motivating drive being to prolong their life and, if possible, to grow in force. In order to effect their one-pointed goal, such thought-forms seek out compatible energies in living beings and attach themselves to the thinker, thereby diffusing their energy through that mind and in turn amplifying their strength by merging with the similar thoughts and emotions of the new recipient. This process may continue indefinitely; thought-forms migrating from one individual to another, each new mind adding momentum and strength to the ever-growing thought-seed.

Detrimental effects

The aforementioned process describes how intense and stressful thought-clouds are created in highly populated areas such as cities, and it is not difficult to understand just how we may become vulnerable to the unfavourable influences of a collective consciousness within a sea of such thought-forms while simply walking down the high street or even at our place of work. The very real and adverse effects of thought-forms can vary from subconscious doubt or mild suspicion to extreme depression or violent resentment, depending on many diverse factors. The negative effects of undesirable thought-forms threaten to result eventually in the complete reprogramming or brain-washing of unsuspecting victims who are regularly exposed to the more powerful thought-currents in their environment and who reinforce them by their own negative thinking or reactions.

Often we notice that when we leave our relatively peaceful homes and venture boldly into the jungle of thought-projections in the city, we are besieged by all kinds of fleeting images, impressions, anxieties, thoughts and emotions. We may become aware of a powerful intensification of our sex-drive or witness, with due disenchantment, a fire of seemingly limitless passions and cravings as others' energies begin to surge throughout our psychic bodies, reinforcing our own previously dormant desires. Upon return home to our 'safe haven', it may take some hours or more for us to become completely free of these undesirable influences. Alternatively, such effects in us may spill over into and threaten the harmony of our private and family life, especially if such excursions into dense thought-form areas are frequent. Many of us live within such thought-clouds constantly and know freedom only on annual holidays or visits to clearer, less infected areas such as the countryside. In one very real sense, cities may be regarded as centres of programming that keep its people marching to the beat of a common drum.

Warning signals

Any inner conflicts, stark or subtle, which we duly experience in relation to our actions, feelings or thoughts are induced by our intuitive nature as a warning for us to beware of becoming enslaved to environmental influences upon our lower instincts and to be careful about accepting and reinforcing the thought-forms of others around us. More so is this the case for the psychically-sensitive person than for the common man who, with apparent ease and complete disregard for the consequences, chases his lower desires with perfect abandon, being buffeted upon the waves and cross-currents of multitudinous craving without recourse to his conscience which may be buried below layers of past karmic desire, ignorance and delusion. However, he too has the choice to stop and listen to that conscience which is the wise voice of Spirit.

Governing laws

An essential key with regard to the problem of roving thought-forms is the law of like attracts like. If we are a little despondent, we are likely to attract negative thought-forms to us from the omnipresent mental plane along with their corresponding emotions from the astral plane. Sometimes, depending upon the concentration of the thought-forms in our immediate environment, even our vacant mind can unwittingly welcome such undesirable intruders into our consciousness. When leaving a room full of depressed persons we might notice how different we feel than when we first entered. Psychiatric therapists are known to have among the highest rate of suicide compared to other professions due to the absorption of negative energies discharged from their mentally-ailing or dejected patients. However, a seed of like thought must be extant on some level within the person for him to be a suitable candidate for 'victimisation' by thought-forms.

As soon as we ourselves become gloomy, pessimistic, vacant or desirous, we set ourselves up as a breeding ground for any wandering, inimical thought-forms in our vicinity which may be searching for opportunities to thrive. Even one of our own thoughts or emotions, once created, often remains hovering in our aura awaiting such times when our thinking becomes compatible so that it may attach itself to us, thereby once again imposing the experience of that thought or emotion which animated it and thus perhaps coercing us to experience repeated desires or inharmonious feelings and anxieties.

It may be surprising to learn that many (if not most) of the thoughts, moods and subsequent desires which we experience daily are not originally our own but can become ours (and indeed our problem) if we allow ourselves to incorporate them into our consciousness. Such vagrant thoughts and feelings are migrating seeds of potential karma, existing transiently on the mental and astral planes. In grasping at, wrestling or identifling with them we make them real for us. It may be helpful to regard transitory thoughts analogously as airborne dandelion seeds. The meadow through which they fly is our field of consciousness. The restless and desirous boy in the meadow who runs after the windborne seeds, seizing them as he can, is our clinging ego spending unnecessary energy in collecting those unimportant and burdensome things which would simply pass through the meadow if left alone. The principles and laws of attachment are succinctly described in William Blake's immortal poem:

He who binds to himself a joy,
Doth the winged life destroy,
But he who kisses the joy as it flies,
Lives in Eternity’s sunrise.

Protection from undesirable thought-forms

Whenever we become aware that we are in the vicinity of persons who are less than content, it is a good practice to become mindful, detached and to check our own desires or aversions. Some people visualise a golden-white light surrounding their bodies or they try to think happy and loving thoughts. However, it should be remembered that such defenses are not always easy to maintain, especially when interacting with another person. Desirelessness is perhaps the most effective methods of self-protection.

Perhaps by now it can be seen how important it is to allow ourselves space and to love and value ourselves enough to give meditation or just solitude a higher priority than perhaps we havedone in the past. It is such a benediction to be free, even for a brief respite, from those undesirable thought-forms which are constantly being generated and vivified in competitive and unhappy localities and which intrude upon our minds unceasingly when unguarded and in the company of others. However, the most sensible and useful thing that we can do generally is to contribute towards the purification of gross or harmful thought-forms in our environment by sublimating our own thoughts and feelings. This may be accomplished by thinking of spiritual truths, worthy ideals or simply by projecting genuine good will. We shall thus resist infection by the lower, negative vibrations of others' minds and simultaneously we shall be aiding in their transmutation.

Right understanding - the best defense

Once we understand the occult laws governing thought-forms, we shall recognise how karma weaves its intricately diverse and omni-connected patterns throughout all existence, and how our own personal bad karma may be supplemented by our uninformed decisions, forgetful actions and unwise use of free will. All suffering is due to wrong thinking - in this or previous lifetimes. Also, with right understanding, we may see how any selfish desire acts like a magnet for base energies to infuse our personal aura and, in so doing, lowers the vibratory frequencies of our own consciousness. Thus so, not only is our spiritual growth thwarted but the potential for our own spiritual retardation is introduced. This is not all; the full damage may not have been rendered quite yet...

After stamping the thought-form with our own personal impressions and adding to it the lower vibrations of our own desire, aversion, negative feeling, etc., we may proceed to unconsciously transmit it back onto the mental and astral planes with intensified vitality; abandoning it to affect any other unsuspecting mind or emotional nature with greater ferocity than it did ourselves originally.

It can be seen, then, how we all have the very real responsibility for controlling our thoughts, emotions and desires. However, in knowing and remembering that the refined and higher vibrations of unselfish, righteous and holy thoughts are bound by the same law of like attracts like, we may recognise the value and good sense in all selfless thought and activity such as charity, kindness, generosity, good will or earnest prayer for others and the world. Thoughts truly are boomerangs!

Spiritual possession and 'hauntings'

It should be emphasised that negative energies of any kind attract dark spirits of all kinds. Negative thinkers may be setting the stage for their own occult possession by beings who exist on the hidden planes. Possessions are not restricted to the medieval era or horror movies alone (although the latter often exaggerate the real symptoms of common possession for a demanding audience). In fact most people in the world today become possessed by tramp spirits from time to time, usually in some subtle and unconscious way. Occult possession is most often quite undiscernible to the untrained observer, manifesting regularly but covertly as 'bad moods', 'personality quirks' or 'depressive idiosyncrasies'. Such maladies are usually swiftly diagnosed by spiritually unaware psychologists or doctors and dismissed together with a bottle of pills! Needless to say that drugs will never free the patient of his possession but, while perhaps availing him of some temporary relief, shall further complicate his problems and misery in the long term.

Thought-forms gather, concentrate and establish themselves into enduring forces which can then happily 'set up house' in and around buildings or in open environments. This explains the very different feeling, for example, in churches compared to alcoholic drinking venues. Thought-forms will affect the consciousness and therefore the lives of those who live within their range of influence. Such influences may be congenial or adverse depending upon the purity and intent of the source from which they were animated. Thought-forms are often the cause of so-called hauntings and can contribute much towards poltergeist activity.

Thought-forms and culture

Over time, thought-forms which are common to the imaginations of many will coalesce and may eventually create vast and very powerful thought-clouds that may last for centuries or change little over millennia. They establish themselves geographically and contribute significantly towards local and national consciousness. Hereditary characteristics do not on their own lead to familial and social custom. Genes are not the sole influence upon culture. Culture is actually derived mainly from and preserved by the thoughts of indigenous peoples who are influenced by the thought-forms moulded by their ancestors and 'passed down' by their elders.

Life after death

After the death of the physical body we abide in the astral world and have our entire past actions, thoughts and experiences replayed to us in the minutest detail. We are thereby reminded of all that we have accepted or rejected, created or destroyed, loved or despised, throughout our lifetime.

Astral impressions, being unhampered by the gross physical body, senses and gross vibrations of the manifest world, are a great many times more intense than those received by our five mundane sense faculties while embodied upon Earth. Upon the great adventure after physical death, our past selfish desires, ignoble thoughts, selfish deeds, etc. not only reappear to us as ugly and haunting exaggerations of their origin, but also, due to their low vibratory frequencies, attract compatible forces and entities into our astral reality. Such super-real and perhaps demonic experiences within our own consciousness are the hell-realms spoken of in the Christian Bible and the various infernos alluded to with dread in all other religions. Heaven and Hell are definitely not spiritual locations in this or other worlds, they are experiential states of consciousness corresponding to our our past thinking and consequent actions.

Thought-forms, the Earth and the future

Right understanding (which will nurture a respect and love for all) is crucial to the future well-being of our planet because the extreme negative thought-forms which we have created and continue to create due to our ignorance have taken this planet close to the edge of self-destruction.

Every species has a collective consciousness or mind. There is a scientific theory called the Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon. Researchers discovered that once a certain number of monkeys learned something new, the whole species soon followed this example without being shown. The scientists could not explain this, but in fact the information, via its formed thought-cloud, was absorbed by the collective mind of the species. This is an illustration of how group-consciousness works. The same principle is applicable to humanity. Once a certain number of individual minds learn new information, it becomes so fortified within the collective consciousness that it is available to everyone associated with it.

At a certain level the minds of mankind are connected each with the other and also with the planet, and it is from this central nexus that the damage is primarily being inflicted upon the Earth and to all life-forms thereon. This centre of consciousness or thought-nucleus, therefore, is where the healing must also transpire. The emergence of right thinking among us shall effect planetary healing. When just a small proportion of the world population gets right understanding and spiritual vision, the rest will follow; the destructive process shall be reversed.

In the past the dominating thought-forms in the collective mind, growing ever more powerful and influential by self-perpetuation, have been those of suicidal economics. This depends for its success upon destroying the world. Its methodology includes a psychology of possessions owned as a measurement of success, the control of others through economic, psychological and physical invasion or suppression, a belief that the Earth was created for man to plunder and control as he sees fit, and so on. The resulting thought-cloud of such global-programming is a toxic and deadly one.

Yet if we are able, as a human race, to destabilise the planet by means of our thought patterns, then we can also restabilise and help to heal her by changing those patterns. Such is the law. By reading certain scriptures we may learn that whole planets imploded themselves due to their saturation by evil thought-forms. However, Mother Earth shall not be destroyed so easily! She has yet to birth many, many more generations in the millennia ahead. But today she is sick and it is our responsibility to remedy this situation with understanding and loving thoughts.

If love replaces antagonism, compassion replaces vindictiveness, charity replaces selfishness and fear and guilt fade in the wake of right understanding and its corollary, informed optimism and intelligent, happy anticipation, then we cease fo be a part of the world problem and immediately become part of the solution. It really is that simple.

To many, the occult facts outlined here may be received with skepticism, and this is understandable in a world which prides itself in having emerged from the dark ages but which, in truth, has still a long way to go before the dawning of spiritual understanding and wisdom among the governments or the masses. The world is in such trouble today precisely because such occult laws as those here described remain unknown to most; because the vital truths and laws of our Universe are not taught in the deficient educational systems provided by our governents. Facing an imminent new world and civilisation, it is now time to disseminate such esoteric information to all who have ears to hear and eyes to see, and who wish to know the truth. The schools of our brighter future will teach such laws. Thus informed, our children shall grow up well-versed in the hidden spiritual sciences and so will be prepared to guide their own and the world's destiny intelligently and with right understanding.

Energy can never be created or destroyed. Everything is energy, including thought-forms. Thus thought-forms can only be transmuted into higher, more spiritualised thought or conversely degraded into grosser and more ominous energies. It can therefore be seen how our planet could become a veritable heaven on Earth (as it has been before) IF the group-consciousness of its inhabitants was to become spiritualised into higher vibratory frequencies. Our reality begins with one thought. Right understanding enables that thought to be a favourable and beneficent one. Spiritual thinking is a garden of bright thought-flowers that brings forth the Love of Divinity and blesses the Earth.

So when people ask the question, ‘What can I do, little me, only one person?’, they illustrate that they do not yet have right understanding. In the light of realisation, however, their answer is simple and absolute - ‘You can change the world, because you create your world’. Every time a person begins to think in a selfless and positive way, we move closer to the big turnaround in the collective consciousness that will transform life on planet Earth.

When we love ourselves, we shall love others. By forgiving ourselves with right understanding, we shall forgive others. In respecting ourselves, we shall respect others. Once healed of negative and harmful thinking ourselves, we shall subsequently heal the world. A time of great and swift change is upon us and is intensifjiing in order to effect such necessary transitions. We can become equipped and prepared for that which is imminent only with right understanding.

{Tim}

February 7th 2005, 05:45 AM

Hmmm....

In a fallen state our minds are veiled, stuck and so will use circular logic to justify our beliefs ideas and opinions. Just look at all the members on this campus, or even, look out into the world. Most people are thoroughly convinced they are right and everyone with a differing idea is wrong.:duh: I'm sorry, but this just struck me as so "Well, duh!" Of course people believe that they are right; hardly anyone will continue to believe something once they are convinced it is incorrect.

And secondly, are you also one of those who believe that you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong? If not, could you explain how you manage to exclude youself from this group? And OTOH if you are, what was the point of posting a comment which applies to yourself as well?

When an aeon is encountered now though, I can recognize its attempts to influence my thoughts and if do not engage the thoughts (feed them) they will just come and go.Seems to me that you have decided that "god" isn't really a god, and so have trained yourself to ignore him. (Yes, He does leave you alone if you really want Him to.) But of course that's just my opinion.

Often we notice that when we leave our relatively peaceful homes and venture boldly into the jungle of thought-projections in the city, we are besieged by all kinds of fleeting images, impressions, anxieties, thoughts and emotions. We may become aware of a powerful intensification of our sex-drive or witness, with due disenchantment, a fire of seemingly limitless passions and cravings as others' energies begin to surge throughout our psychic bodies, reinforcing our own previously dormant desires. Or is it just that I go out, and notice a woman in a skimpy top and short skirt, and it is that which excites my sexual desire? Bottom line is, how can you show that it is psychic influences, and not simply "ordinary" influences, which cause these things?

Over time, thought-forms which are common to the imaginations of many will coalesce and may eventually create vast and very powerful thought-clouds that may last for centuries or change little over millennia. They establish themselves geographically and contribute significantly towards local and national consciousness. Hereditary characteristics do not on their own lead to familial and social custom. Genes are not the sole influence upon culture. Culture is actually derived mainly from and preserved by the thoughts of indigenous peoples who are influenced by the thought-forms moulded by their ancestors and 'passed down' by their elders.Question: if you suddenly removed all the people, would these thought-clouds vanish instantly (that is, are they attached to the people who created and perpetuated them?) Or could they continue to hover around by themselves even if their "source population" was utterly removed (along with all their artifacts/cities/etc), and then influence others who had no contact with or knowledge of the original people? I am interested in seeing your answer.

In closing, I would like to repeat Tuck's question to you:
What evidence do you have for this, Vivian?
(Note that he didn't say "can you write an article supporting your view", he said "what evidence do you have".)

Tim

Magdalenbrother

February 7th 2005, 06:04 AM

I like the way Eckhart Tolle describes Jesus: an opening.

Sparko

February 7th 2005, 07:08 PM

uh....

Sorry Vivian, but that all sounds really :lolo:

Bill the Cat

February 7th 2005, 07:17 PM

Hate to argue by weblink, but there is nothing like a classic rebuttal to the Aeon theory... http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.i.html

*edited to add*

Against Heresies: Book I

Chapter I.—Absurd ideas of the disciples of Valentinus as to the origin, name, order, and conjugal productions of their fancied Æons, with the passages of Scripture which they adapt to their opinions.

Sparko

February 7th 2005, 08:10 PM

why don't you post the info Bill, I couldn't find it at that link.

Bill the Cat

February 7th 2005, 08:31 PM

why don't you post the info Bill, I couldn't find it at that link.

It's Ireneas' Against Heresies. It's a very long apologetic on refuting the Aeons of the gnostics. You have to go thru the pages and read it. Great stuff too!!

Vivian

February 7th 2005, 09:12 PM

Hmmm....

:duh: I'm sorry, but this just struck me as so "Well, duh!" Of course people believe that they are right; hardly anyone will continue to believe something once they are convinced it is incorrect.

And secondly, are you also one of those who believe that you are right and those who disagree with you are wrong? If not, could you explain how you manage to exclude youself from this group? And OTOH if you are, what was the point of posting a comment which applies to yourself as well?

Beliefs and knowings are two different things. Believing comes from accepting what some else has stated and knowing comes from an inner experiencing. Jesus told us that we would not be able to see Christ with our eyes, that recognizing Him is an inner knowing as we evidenced with the disciples.

Likewise, Paul talked of faith that was based on things unseen with our regular senses. Both are referring to an inner knowing that cannot be proven to another unless they too have experienced it.

So those who only believe can get into endless arguments regarding whose beliefs are right and whose are not. These are really just opinions, for one cannot know what it True until they experience it within.

I too have been driven by beliefs and have had to let go of them.

Those who know simply share what they know and point others in the direction to find out for themselves.

Seems to me that you have decided that "god" isn't really a god, and so have trained yourself to ignore him. (Yes, He does leave you alone if you really want Him to.) But of course that's just my opinion.

Ha!

Oh Tim, if you only knew what is out there working to deceive us!

Even Jesus was tempted. If you think that you are free from the influence of the deceivers, what does that make you?

Once you know these things, Tim, what happened to the Jews makes sense. How were God's chosen people so deceived? The same happened to the Christians, the Hindus, the Buddhists, etc. etc. This world is darkness and all sleep.

The Father God is consciousness without form and there are layers and layers of mansions in His House.

Or is it just that I go out, and notice a woman in a skimpy top and short skirt, and it is that which excites my sexual desire? Bottom line is, how can you show that it is psychic influences, and not simply "ordinary" influences, which cause these things?

A sexual response to a woman in a skimpy top is only a physiological reaction. There is nothing sinful about that. However it can open doors to temptation.

Sin (or separative self seeking thought and behavior) happens when a tempting spirit enters through the open door of your sexual response, placing thoughts of desire in your mind, to which you attach creating lust.

Responding to beauty is not a sin. Wanting for yourself is.

Question: if you suddenly removed all the people, would these thought-clouds vanish instantly (that is, are they attached to the people who created and perpetuated them?) Or could they continue to hover around by themselves even if their "source population" was utterly removed (along with all their artifacts/cities/etc), and then influence others who had no contact with or knowledge of the original people? I am interested in seeing your answer.

Interesting question, Tim. You are touching on Armageddon here and why things will become dire on earth as large segments of the population die.

Thought forms will vanish without energetic food (ethers produced from emotions). And so if they lose one source, they will seek out another through the same mode of attacking via open doors. Just imagine the thought forms in action on a planet of 6 billion beings! Then imagine 1/3 of their food source suddenly vanishing. Add to that some of the masses that died who will also begin seeking energetic food from those still living.

Now those remaining will have even more entities planting negative thoughts in their minds. Many will go insane. The demand for anitdepressants will sky rocket. Not that it hasn't already! Speaking of anti depressants...how many do you know who cannot survive in the present world without some form of medication to quiet the negative thoughts in their minds?

In closing, I would like to repeat Tuck's question to you:
What evidence do you have for this, Vivian?
(Note that he didn't say "can you write an article supporting your view", he said "what evidence do you have".)

Tim

The evidence is all around you. Seek and you shall find.

vivian

Sparko

February 7th 2005, 09:15 PM

OK, Bill, I skimmed over it and although it seems to tell the story of what the Gnostics claim about the Aeons, and what tales they tell about them, I don't see any refutation of their claims. But maybe I am missing it, the way he writes is very hard to parse and follow.

I am not positive the Aeons that Ireaneous is speaking about is the same thing that Vivian is speaking about either. Her version seems like a modern New Age religion based on Memes. Memes are "ideas" that can seem to take on a 'life' of their own. spreading from person to person, self replicating (for example: Urban Legends). Of course memes are spoken of as 'live' only as a figure of speech. It seems someone took that literally and made up a whole New Age religion based on it, and Vivian subscribes to it. To her, these memes she calls Aeons are really alive and self-aware entities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Jin-Roh

February 8th 2005, 01:44 AM

Vivian

February 8th 2005, 02:06 PM

Vivian

February 8th 2005, 02:30 PM

**Runs a Radition Detector over his body**
**Finds nothing**
**Conludes he must not be human**

(of course, it might be easier to conclude that humans don't have an individual magnetic radiation fields, and that Vivian has perhaps watched to much of Seriel Experiemtns: Lain in the last few days)

Hah! :haha:

Sorry don't watch much TV.

And it won't do you any good to look for such things using your mundane senses, anyway. These can only be seen with our spiritual eyes and ears, which are the little knowings that come upon us from time to time. But then with our 'sophisticated' human logic and the influence by the god of this world, we rationalize away these intuitions and are left with only the mundane to guide - or rather misguide.

However, if we begin to listen to our initial thoughts and feelings, the little things we sense before logic takes over, we will develop the inner senses and so be able to recognize Christ when He returns.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

vivian

Sparko

February 8th 2005, 02:46 PM

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

vivian
But Vivian, who do you say Jesus is? It seems you don't have the same Jesus as the bible teaches. Your Jesus is some New Age spiritual concept instead of an actual person. When Jesus comes back we will be able to see him with our own physical eyes, not have to sense him with "spiritual eyes"

He will come back in the same way he left, physically.

Krusader

February 8th 2005, 03:12 PM

Vivian

February 8th 2005, 05:14 PM

But Vivian, who do you say Jesus is? It seems you don't have the same Jesus as the bible teaches. Your Jesus is some New Age spiritual concept instead of an actual person. When Jesus comes back we will be able to see him with our own physical eyes, not have to sense him with "spiritual eyes"

He will come back in the same way he left, physically.

Hello John,

To See, John, one has to discard all this world's preprogramming of the meaning of scripture and listen to the One True Teacher.

Here is what He showed me....

When we are One with the Father - as Jesus prayed for us in John 17 - and say "I" we will be referring to God, for God is first person in Heaven. There are no individual identities only children/sparks of God acting in perfect harmony with His Will.

This opened up Biblical Scripture and allowed me to realize that when Jesus said "I" He was not referring to his individual identity (son of man), but to the Father who is manifested in creation through the Obedience of the only begotten Son which is Spirit.

And now all those scriptures in the Old Testament where angels/messengers of the Lord would move freely between talking of God in third person (Him) and first person (I) began to make sense. They were One with the Father.

Jesus prayed in John 17 that we would be just as He is, meaning that someday we will also be One and speak of God in first person.

The Father is Spirit and begats Spirit. The only begotten Son (Christ) is also Spirit, but through and by the Son (Christ) flesh was created. Jesus was/is a created being (son of man), but in obtaining Oneness with the Father through unity in Consciousness with Christ...He is the Christ in physical manifestation. Anyone who obtains the same is also the Christ in physical manifestation, or the Body of Christ here in the physical world.

Jesus did not resurrect into the same physical body that died. In fact he was unrecognizable by those who encountered him until He went to the Father where any last residues of a fallen being (son of man) were dissolved. He then was able to materialize and dematierialize at will.

Jesus warned that His/Christ's return would not be visible by the physical eye..."you will not see the Christ here or there" and his ascension was not a physical one. It was "into the clouds of heaven", which is referring to the etheric realm or the firmament that separates the physical from the spiritual.

This requires a spiritual eye to See into. The same that was had by Peter and the other disciples who were able to see the Christ Light in Jesus. They were looking into another realm and connected with Jesus there.

When Christ returns, it will be "in the clouds of heaven" just as Jesus left.

Now, why all will not be able to see Christ returning, all will certainly know He has come due to the impact that His Presence in Power will have on all the earth.

vivian

Sparko

February 8th 2005, 05:32 PM

I think that is just a bunch of new age baloney Vivian.

Bill the Cat

February 8th 2005, 05:46 PM

Since this is discussing Gnostic ideas, it is moving to Unorthodox Theology

Krusader

February 8th 2005, 05:50 PM

Hello John,

To See, John, one has to discard all this world's preprogramming of the meaning of scripture and listen to the One True Teacher.

Here is what He showed me....

When we are One with the Father - as Jesus prayed for us in John 17 - and say "I" we will be referring to God, for God is first person in Heaven. There are no individual identities only children/sparks of God acting in perfect harmony with His Will.

This opened up Biblical Scripture and allowed me to realize that when Jesus said "I" He was not referring to his individual identity (son of man), but to the Father who is manifested in creation through the Obedience of the only begotten Son which is Spirit.

And now all those scriptures in the Old Testament where angels/messengers of the Lord would move freely between talking of God in third person (Him) and first person (I) began to make sense. They were One with the Father.

Jesus prayed in John 17 that we would be just as He is, meaning that someday we will also be One and speak of God in first person.

The Father is Spirit and begats Spirit. The only begotten Son (Christ) is also Spirit, but through and by the Son (Christ) flesh was created. Jesus was/is a created being (son of man), but in obtaining Oneness with the Father through unity in Consciousness with Christ...He is the Christ in physical manifestation. Anyone who obtains the same is also the Christ in physical manifestation, or the Body of Christ here in the physical world.

Jesus did not resurrect into the same physical body that died. In fact he was unrecognizable by those who encountered him until He went to the Father where any last residues of a fallen being (son of man) were dissolved. He then was able to materialize and dematierialize at will.

Jesus warned that His/Christ's return would not be visible by the physical eye..."you will not see the Christ here or there" and his ascension was not a physical one. It was "into the clouds of heaven", which is referring to the etheric realm or the firmament that separates the physical from the spiritual.

This requires a spiritual eye to See into. The same that was had by Peter and the other disciples who were able to see the Christ Light in Jesus. They were looking into another realm and connected with Jesus there.

When Christ returns, it will be "in the clouds of heaven" just as Jesus left.

Now, why all will not be able to see Christ returning, all will certainly know He has come due to the impact that His Presence in Power will have on all the earth.

vivian

Jesus did not say, "you will not see the Christ here or there." This passage in Matthew is referring to false Second Comings; for instance, the new age "second coming" in the "secret chambers," or some kind of appearence in the "desert."

Christ's coming will be like lightning flashing from the east to the west - very visible to the human eye.

Out of context passages from Scripture can be twisted to support almost any view. You must use context, however, to derive the true meaning of Scripture.

Vivian

February 8th 2005, 09:58 PM

I think that is just a bunch of new age baloney Vivian.

And the New Agers think it is a bunch of fundamental baloney! These truths have had to exist underground since the 400's due to heavy persecution, from all arenas.

vivian

Sparko

February 8th 2005, 10:32 PM

And the New Agers think it is a bunch of fundamental baloney! These truths have had to exist underground since the 400's due to heavy persecution, from all arenas.

vivian
Well, then. Perhaps it really IS Baloney?

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 12:01 AM

Jesus did not say, "you will not see the Christ here or there." This passage in Matthew is referring to false Second Comings; for instance, the new age "second coming" in the "secret chambers," or some kind of appearence in the "desert."

Christ's coming will be like lightning flashing from the east to the west - very visible to the human eye.

Out of context passages from Scripture can be twisted to support almost any view. You must use context, however, to derive the true meaning of Scripture.

23"Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.

26"Therefore if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or "Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

24"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

You cannot pour new wine into old wine skins. To be filled with greater understanding, Crusader, we have to become anew. We have to let go of what we thought we knew, become an empty cup, and only then can God expand our understanding. And we must empty our cup anew each and every day.

Jesus said that the Kingdom is not of this world. He says it is within. So why would we suddenly think that he is talking about the physical world in these passages? Everyone is looking for a kingdom here. The Jews, the Christians, the new Agers, etc. etc. but the kingdom will not be here in this dimension. It can't.

And if the Kingdom is within, would not Heaven be within also?

The clouds are the firmament, what separates the spiritual from the physical, heaven from earth. Heaven is accessed within, through our minds. But for most of us, our minds are veiled and access is blocked in our consciousness. There are those, though, who have torn through the veils and have united with Christ and have seen His Glory and the angels rejoicing.

Only those with eyes to see and ears to hear will be able to see Christ approaching, but alll will know when He does arrive, for it will be as lightning flashes across the sky.

vivian

Richbee

February 9th 2005, 01:28 AM

I like the way Eckhart Tolle describes Jesus: an opening.

Maggie, you're an intellectual dead-end.

Bye-bye.

Richbee

February 9th 2005, 01:36 AM

THE JESUS AEON - Vivian

:eek:

You brave soul you? Coming out of the closet??? I missed this thread.

Wake up girl and smell the coffee!!!

The first traces of Gnosticism arise centuries before Christianity and are rooted in the ancient religions of Syria, Babylonia, Phoenicia and Persia, and in the Greek Platonic schools of philosophy. Gnostic communities existed throughout the Roman Empire, and because of the religious apathy toward traditional religion and the fascination with mystery cults, they caused some curiosity. In a sense, they were like the "new-agers" of today’s society. With the founding of our Church and the spread of Christianity, the Gnostics incorporated elements of Christianity into their beliefs. Keep in mind that each Gnostic leader supplied his own nuances to the Gnosticism.

Nevertheless, the basic points are as follows:

— Gnosticism is a dualistic theological system. God is all good and the source of all goodness. Everything spiritual is of God and therefore good. Light too is of God and therefore good.

— Equal to God but diametrically opposed is the devil who is evil and the source of all evil. Everything material is of the devil and therefore evil. Darkness too is of the devil and therefore evil.

— Regarding creation, the Gnostics rejected Christian teaching. Instead, they posited that a series of aeons emanate from God in descending order. These aeons are paired, being called "syzygies," in almost a male-female sense: so the aeons depth and silence produce mind and truth, which produce reason and life, which produce man and state. All together they form the "pleroma."

— As these aeons recede from God, they become less perfect. The last aeon, the Demiurge, creates the material world due to some flaw, sin or passion. Man is created, but because of some primordial fault, his soul has fallen to this world and is imprisoned in the physical body. While his physical being is corrupt, his spiritual soul is good. In a sense, the good soul is the prisoner of the evil body; therefore, redemption is to release the soul from its bodily prison. To release the soul necessitates awakening the "gnosis," (the wisdom) within, a gnosis which "has fallen asleep" in physical matter.

— According to the Gnostics, individuals fall into three categories: the pneumatikoi are influenced by the spirit, have the necessary gnosis, and are assured salvation; the psychikoi may be saved; and the hylikoi are so influenced by matter that they have no hope of salvation.

The Gnostic version of Jesus is not the Jesus of Christianity.

Source::More (catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0676.html)

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 04:45 AM

:eek:

You brave soul you? Coming out of the closet??? I missed this thread.

Wake up girl and smell the coffee!!!

The first traces of Gnosticism arise centuries before Christianity and are rooted in the ancient religions of Syria, Babylonia, Phoenicia and Persia, and in the Greek Platonic schools of philosophy. Gnostic communities existed throughout the Roman Empire, and because of the religious apathy toward traditional religion and the fascination with mystery cults, they caused some curiosity. In a sense, they were like the "new-agers" of today’s society. With the founding of our Church and the spread of Christianity, the Gnostics incorporated elements of Christianity into their beliefs. Keep in mind that each Gnostic leader supplied his own nuances to the Gnosticism.

I would rather have a nice Chai Latte...join me?

I am not too much of a historian regarding various organizations calling themself Gnostic, but here is what I know.

Gnosis and Gnosticism are two different things. The first is knowledge of God that comes experientially and the latter are certain organizations that grow up around others' claims of Gnosis. The organizations themselves are about as reliable as Christian ones for they are all made by man.

I do know of a few individuals and organizations from the past who had at their center True Knowledge of God. But they either were annilated by those they threatened, or they eventually fell victim to the traditions of man, like any organization. The god of this world got rid of them any way he could as he does with all inflows of Light from God. Any organization that has continued its existence for a signicant period of time is obviously not a threat to Lucifer.

There has been a presense, perhaps continuous, of True Knowledge of God, throughout all time. For the last 1600 years though, it has been mostly underground. I certainly did not know of its existence until after many years of searching when I found a few very small gatherings of individuals that had received the same knowledge I had from their own inner and outer search. It was only then that I came across the term Gnosis. But these gatherings typically do not categorize themselves as anything, for they really are beyond definition.

Since Gnosis is True Knowledge of God coming directly from God, it is at the foundation of most religious traditions. Jesus, since He certainly had direct knowledge of God, had Gnosis as did his early followers.

It wasn't until the times of Constantine and after, when the teachings of Jesus were distorted for personal gain, that the heritic "Gnostics" began to be persecuted.

It is well documented that St. Augustine went on a killing rampage for personal revenge after he was rejected by the Manichurians.

The present day church has adopted the incorrect view that True Christianity was somehow protected by Constantine, which goes against all that Jesus taught. In reality, Constantine began a new religion, combining pagan and Christian theology to use for personal gain. The true followers of Jesus existed separate from Constantine and little by little were killed off over the next 200 years or so.

[size=3]Nevertheless, the basic points are as follows:

— Gnosticism is a dualistic theological system. God is all good and the source of all goodness. Everything spiritual is of God and therefore good. Light too is of God and therefore good.

— Equal to God but diametrically opposed is the devil who is evil and the source of all evil. Everything material is of the devil and therefore evil. Darkness too is of the devil and therefore evil.

— Regarding creation, the Gnostics rejected Christian teaching. Instead, they posited that a series of aeons emanate from God in descending order. These aeons are paired, being called "syzygies," in almost a male-female sense: so the aeons depth and silence produce mind and truth, which produce reason and life, which produce man and state. All together they form the "pleroma."

— As these aeons recede from God, they become less perfect. The last aeon, the Demiurge, creates the material world due to some flaw, sin or passion. Man is created, but because of some primordial fault, his soul has fallen to this world and is imprisoned in the physical body. While his physical being is corrupt, his spiritual soul is good. In a sense, the good soul is the prisoner of the evil body; therefore, redemption is to release the soul from its bodily prison. To release the soul necessitates awakening the "gnosis," (the wisdom) within, a gnosis which "has fallen asleep" in physical matter.

— According to the Gnostics, individuals fall into three categories: the pneumatikoi are influenced by the spirit, have the necessary gnosis, and are assured salvation; the psychikoi may be saved; and the hylikoi are so influenced by matter that they have no hope of salvation.

The Gnostic version of Jesus is not the Jesus of Christianity.

Source::More (catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0676.html)

I don't know what Gnostic organization the above doctrine is referring to but it certainly is not founded in Gnosis.

All Spirit is not good, Lucifer was spirit and the first of creation to fall.

Dualism has two meanings - one rooted back to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Good and evil are the polar extremes that are found in creation. Of course good is preferred, but it is not the same as the Good that is used to describe God. No one is Good but the Father.

Evil does not exist in the Divine. That is why evil falls...it falls out of God's Presence. And is certainly NOT equal to God. Matter was first a Divine creation, but this world has been corrupted by Lucifer and so is fallen and hence also evil, which simply means seperate from or causing to move away from God.

True Christianity is based on True Knowledge of God and is therefore founded in Gnosis.

All man made religions reject each other. So the fact that some Gnostics reject Christianity is expected. Those who have experienced God accept all Truth found in all organizations. But Christ is their Head, not a religious tradition.

I am not familair with the creation story that is presented above. The one I know concurs with what is revealed in Genesis, although with slightly different interpretion than is accepted by most of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Regarding the demiurge. I can see there has been a Luciferic force at work that has distorted the original material creation we call earth. This place is not the Garden of Eden that was first created. If some want to call that force a demiurge, I have no problem with that. Whatever it's name, it is part of the Luciferic forces working through fallen creation.

Within each human body is the spiritual child of God. Some call it a Divine Spark, some the breath of life. It is the prodigal son and does sleeps. Those whose sparks have awakened and realize they are living in a swine pit and so long to return Home, do feel that these bodies are imprisoning. Compared to the spiritual freedom of angels, are they not?

vivian

Krusader

February 9th 2005, 11:41 AM

23"Then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ!' or "There!' do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.

26"Therefore if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or "Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

24"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

You cannot pour new wine into old wine skins. To be filled with greater understanding, Crusader, we have to become anew. We have to let go of what we thought we knew, become an empty cup, and only then can God expand our understanding. And we must empty our cup anew each and every day.

Jesus said that the Kingdom is not of this world. He says it is within. So why would we suddenly think that he is talking about the physical world in these passages? Everyone is looking for a kingdom here. The Jews, the Christians, the new Agers, etc. etc. but the kingdom will not be here in this dimension. It can't.

And if the Kingdom is within, would not Heaven be within also?

The clouds are the firmament, what separates the spiritual from the physical, heaven from earth. Heaven is accessed within, through our minds. But for most of us, our minds are veiled and access is blocked in our consciousness. There are those, though, who have torn through the veils and have united with Christ and have seen His Glory and the angels rejoicing.

Only those with eyes to see and ears to hear will be able to see Christ approaching, but alll will know when He does arrive, for it will be as lightning flashes across the sky.

vivianI have become anew, Vivian, by regeneration through faith in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Expanding our knowledge - lifting the "veil" of our minds - etc., etc., is a rehash of Gnostic teaching. It is also the same type of temptation that led Eve to eat the apple - "you will be like God." And, I think that same serpent is behind all the Gnostic New Age babble as well.

The Scripture states that he is anti-Christ who does not believe that Jesus came in the flesh. Yes, the teachings of anti-Christ were prevalent in the early days of the church, and dog us even today. However, it is the Word of God which shall overcome this error - and it is the Lord Jesus Who will return in the air for His Church and for the judgment of the nations, and to establish His kingdom.

John the Apostle said that if anyone brings these Gnostic teachings to you, receive that person not, neither let them into your house (church). We do well to take his advice.

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 02:17 PM

I have become anew, Vivian, by regeneration through faith in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Expanding our knowledge - lifting the "veil" of our minds - etc., etc., is a rehash of Gnostic teaching. It is also the same type of temptation that led Eve to eat the apple - "you will be like God." And, I think that same serpent is behind all the Gnostic New Age babble as well.

The Scripture states that he is anti-Christ who does not believe that Jesus came in the flesh. Yes, the teachings of anti-Christ were prevalent in the early days of the church, and dog us even today. However, it is the Word of God which shall overcome this error - and it is the Lord Jesus Who will return in the air for His Church and for the judgment of the nations, and to establish His kingdom.

John the Apostle said that if anyone brings these Gnostic teachings to you, receive that person not, neither let them into your house (church). We do well to take his advice.

Unfortunately, we cannot see the illogical prison that the Jesus aeon has trapped us in until we find for ourselves the Truth that will make us free.

I will be happy to offer you understanding that is free from aeonic influence but it is your choice whether or not you accept it.

13When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

14So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

16Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven."

20Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

It was not with flesh and blood or with his physical senses that Peter was able to see Christ in Jesus, it was with his spiritual senses or connection within with the Father.

It is the antichrist spirit that prevents development of our spiritual senses allowing us to discern for ourselves what the Father is saying.

All through Jesus' teachings he warns against listening to others or relying simply on our physical senses. He keeps pointing us within to a spiritual connection with God.

The Jesus aeon has built an organization filled with "experts" that tell the sheep what is True and what is false. These experts, for the most part, have no inner spiritual sensing and simply pass on what they themselves have heard or read.

vivian

Krusader

February 9th 2005, 02:40 PM

Unfortunately, we cannot see the illogical prison that the Jesus aeon has trapped us in until we find for ourselves the Truth that will make us free.

I will be happy to offer you understanding that is free from aeonic influence but it is your choice whether or not you accept it.

13When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

14So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

16Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven."

20Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

It was not with flesh and blood or with his physical senses that Peter was able to see Christ in Jesus, it was with his spiritual senses or connection within with the Father.

It is the antichrist spirit that prevents development of our spiritual senses allowing us to discern for ourselves what the Father is saying.

All through Jesus' teachings he warns against listening to others or relying simply on our physical senses. He keeps pointing us within to a spiritual connection with God.

The Jesus aeon has built an organization filled with "experts" that tell the sheep what is True and what is false. These experts, for the most part, have no inner spiritual sensing and simply pass on what they themselves have heard or read.

vivianIt wasn't Peter's spiritual connection with the Father that revealed to him the Lordship and Sonship of Jesus Christ - it was directly revealed by the First Person of the Trinity, the Father, to Peter, the man. Peter didn't have some special insight or spiritual connection - he was the recipient of divine revelation. Continuing in this thought, we are given faith as a gift, and it it nothing within ourselves that allows us to have faith - since man is totally without the ability to believe in Christ apart from God's call and election. Jesus said that no man could come to Him unless he was drawn by the Father. The human nature of the unregenerated man is totally without merit and (as Calvin said) depraved, and unable to come to God even if he desired to do so (which the unregenerated man does not).

What experts are telling the sheep what to do and believe? It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to us the truth of the Word of God, gives us discernment and insight and understanding. Apart from the Holy Spirit we can understand nothing spiritual because we, in our humanness, are spiritually blind.

I think this "Jesus aeon" you speak of is nothing more than a mythical excuse to avoid knowing Him Who said He was Truth - Jesus Christ. Why not read the Word of God plainly, and believe that the One Who inspired it to be written really intended for you to believe it as it is written.

Your method of interpretation could just as well be Swedenborgian, as New Age.

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 06:03 PM

Krusader

February 9th 2005, 06:43 PM

In the above postings the term gnosis is referring to the same that Paul talked of numerous times (the mysteries and gnosis of God) - and that which Jesus speaks to here:

Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to gnosis. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.

I do recall Paul offered a warning once regarding false gnosis - certainty not what Jesus is referring to - and I can find no mention in John's words of keeping this gnosis out of our houses! In fact he offers more mysteries and gnosis in his teachings than in any other New Testament writer!

vivian

:wink:Vivian, the word gnosis is that from which the Gnostic sects derived their name. The NT era Gnostics believed that they had a hidden, occult knowledge above and beyond Scripture. They also taught that the material world was essentially evil, and that God would not and could not become flesh in the material world. This essentially denied the doctrine of the Incarnation, or Christ becoming Man. The Incarnation being denied, the Atonment through Christ' death was denied as well. In fact, Gnostic sects taught that Jesus only appeared to die on the cross. (Side comment: it's interesting to note that it was Gnostic teachings from which Mohammed derived his view of Jesus, for the Gnostic sects were prevalent on the Arabian penninsula. Thus, for instance, the Quran states that Jesus only appeared to die, or that another died in his place).

The Gnostic teachings were causing turmoil in the Church, as you can imagine. This is what prompted the Apostle John to address the issue in his epistles (not the Gospel of John, the Epistles of John).

For instance in the first epistle he states emphatically that those who deny the incarnation (that Christ came in the flesh) are of the spirit of anti-Christ (vs. 3). In his next epistle, the Second Epistle of John, he states to the "elect lady," not to allow any person not bringing the correct doctrine of Christ into her home. (Early Christians gathered for services in homes at that time. John is warning the owner of the home not to allow false teachers bringing the doctrine of the Gnostics into her home.) He admonishes her with these words:
"For many deceivers are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come inthe flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." You can read the whole epistle in less than a minute, it's only a few paragraphs.

It is our "knowledge" of Christ which saves us - and the Greek word used to describe this knowledge indicates a deep, personal relationship....not head knowledge, or hidden gnosis.

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 10:43 PM

It wasn't Peter's spiritual connection with the Father that revealed to him the Lordship and Sonship of Jesus Christ - it was directly revealed by the First Person of the Trinity, the Father, to Peter, the man. Peter didn't have some special insight or spiritual connection - he was the recipient of divine revelation. Continuing in this thought, we are given faith as a gift, and it it nothing within ourselves that allows us to have faith - since man is totally without the ability to believe in Christ apart from God's call and election. Jesus said that no man could come to Him unless he was drawn by the Father. The human nature of the unregenerated man is totally without merit and (as Calvin said) depraved, and unable to come to God even if he desired to do so (which the unregenerated man does not).

What experts are telling the sheep what to do and believe? It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to us the truth of the Word of God, gives us discernment and insight and understanding. Apart from the Holy Spirit we can understand nothing spiritual because we, in our humanness, are spiritually blind.

I think this "Jesus aeon" you speak of is nothing more than a mythical excuse to avoid knowing Him Who said He was Truth - Jesus Christ. Why not read the Word of God plainly, and believe that the One Who inspired it to be written really intended for you to believe it as it is written.

Your method of interpretation could just as well be Swedenborgian, as New Age.

Hey Crusader,

I am having difficulty finding words for you. I understand the mind set that you hold for I held it too. All that I can tell you is that you will not realize where you are until you walk free.

I did find a message interwoven in your words that made sense. None of us were inside Peter's head and so do not know exactly how the Father revealed these things to him. We can only know what we our selves have experienced.

We do know though that this was a private connection within Peter. There were no outward signs or voices that were discernable by flesh and blood. So can we not say that he had a spiritual sensitivity and so was able to receive the revelation from the Father and leave it at that?

Also we know that Jesus said - bless you, Peter for knowing this because you received inner revelation from the Father and not because you believed something you saw or heard.

I consider this an affirmation that if we want to recognize Christ when he returns we too should be looking inwardly to our connection with the Father.

Be still and Know that I am God.

Knowledge or gnosis of God comes to us in the stillness of our minds.

If I recall correctly, Calvin is a bit of a predestinationist, yes? Interesting debate - free will and predestination. It all melts away though when you realize that we all have free will and we are all predestined by the Father to some day return to Him. The problem comes when one looks at each person in only the one present life they are living. Same with the law of reaping and sowing. So many things in the Bible became obscured when reincarnation was extracted from the teachings of Jesus.

I like what you said, Crusader...

The human nature of the unregenerated man is totally without merit and (as Calvin said) depraved, and unable to come to God even if he desired to do so (which the unregenerated man does not).

I would adjust it a little bit and say the nature of all physical men is without merit, because our physicality and ego identification are the rags that we wear in a fallen state. To join in the wedding feast, these must fall away and through the Grace of God, the child of God within these rags will become clothed in wedding garments.

I have bowed down on my face in prayer to Jesus, danced and sang to (and with!) him in joy and thanksgiving, have seen his image in miraculous visions, and sought Him earnestly for Biblical understanding over multiple years and 1000's of hours.

What has been given comes to all who seek and knock earnestly, forsaking all else.

Deny your self, pick up your cross and follow me.

He who loses his life for my sake will find Life in Me.

vivian

Vivian

February 9th 2005, 11:26 PM

Vivian, the word gnosis is that from which the Gnostic sects derived their name. The NT era Gnostics believed that they had a hidden, occult knowledge above and beyond Scripture. They also taught that the material world was essentially evil, and that God would not and could not become flesh in the material world. This essentially denied the doctrine of the Incarnation, or Christ becoming Man. The Incarnation being denied, the Atonment through Christ' death was denied as well. In fact, Gnostic sects taught that Jesus only appeared to die on the cross. (Side comment: it's interesting to note that it was Gnostic teachings from which Mohammed derived his view of Jesus, for the Gnostic sects were prevalent on the Arabian penninsula. Thus, for instance, the Quran states that Jesus only appeared to die, or that another died in his place).

The Gnostic teachings were causing turmoil in the Church, as you can imagine. This is what prompted the Apostle John to address the issue in his epistles (not the Gospel of John, the Epistles of John).

For instance in the first epistle he states emphatically that those who deny the incarnation (that Christ came in the flesh) are of the spirit of anti-Christ (vs. 3). In his next epistle, the Second Epistle of John, he states to the "elect lady," not to allow any person not bringing the correct doctrine of Christ into her home. (Early Christians gathered for services in homes at that time. John is warning the owner of the home not to allow false teachers bringing the doctrine of the Gnostics into her home.) He admonishes her with these words:
"For many deceivers are entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come inthe flesh. This is a deceiver and an anti-Christ." You can read the whole epistle in less than a minute, it's only a few paragraphs.

It is our "knowledge" of Christ which saves us - and the Greek word used to describe this knowledge indicates a deep, personal relationship....not head knowledge, or hidden gnosis.

I am not too versed in the history of what is called "The Gnostics". What I refer to as gnosis is the heart led inner knowing that we have of God when we are still before Him.

Some of the knowledge/gnosis received has been written down. This may be what you mean by hidden, occult knowledge. Jesus was clear that there were levels of teachings for not all were ready for the mysteries. ANd while alluded to in scripture by Jesus and Paul, these mysteries are not directly addressed.

They are the deeper meanings of the parables that Jesus taught his disciples when he took them away from the masses.

The written gnosis coincide with what Christ reveals in private to an earnest seeker with a stilled mind and a pure heart.

I have read that St. Augustine was quite upset when he himself was not able to make the connection to God in stillness, so the Manichurians would not release their higher teachings to him. Augustine then, out of revenge, killed the Manichurians and had their heads displayed on stakes as heretics.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus was Christ incarnate.

Jesus had multiple purposes for incarnation. One was to show us the way, another was as a gatekeeper. There was also great significance in his denial of Satan. He also bore the debts/karma of humanity. And not least was to reveal God's Love to humanity.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus' body died on the cross, but that he relinquished his Spirit to the Father before physical death...so that he did not taste of it.

Many Christians also say the same.

My definition of gnosis is the same as your definition of a deep personal knowledge of God...actually it is impersonal but that is another post! It is not just something you think or believe in, it is something that is known becauseit has been experienced. And it is a heart knowing. Example is Peter's revelation from the Father regarding Jesus's identity.

This knowledge of God comes by revelation or as some call it, remembrance.

I do not give credence to past writings whether they are of Christian origin or what is called Gnostic unless what is written resonates with the deep knowing I have within. Many Gnostic orders may have gone astray after those with a heart based connection died off leaving their written writings behind. Those that followed did not have their own connection in stillness and so only understood written gnosis mentally. Perhaps that is the reason for all the distortion you have mentioned above.

I find nothing in the epistles of John speaking out against gnosis. In fact, Revelation and the Gospel of John are two of the most significant offerings of written gnosis that exist today.

vivian

Krusader

February 10th 2005, 12:21 PM

I am not too versed in the history of what is called "The Gnostics". What I refer to as gnosis is the heart led inner knowing that we have of God when we are still before Him.

Some of the knowledge/gnosis received has been written down. This may be what you mean by hidden, occult knowledge. Jesus was clear that there were levels of teachings for not all were ready for the mysteries. ANd while alluded to in scripture by Jesus and Paul, these mysteries are not directly addressed.

They are the deeper meanings of the parables that Jesus taught his disciples when he took them away from the masses.

The written gnosis coincide with what Christ reveals in private to an earnest seeker with a stilled mind and a pure heart.

I have read that St. Augustine was quite upset when he himself was not able to make the connection to God in stillness, so the Manichurians would not release their higher teachings to him. Augustine then, out of revenge, killed the Manichurians and had their heads displayed on stakes as heretics.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus was Christ incarnate.

Jesus had multiple purposes for incarnation. One was to show us the way, another was as a gatekeeper. There was also great significance in his denial of Satan. He also bore the debts/karma of humanity. And not least was to reveal God's Love to humanity.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus' body died on the cross, but that he relinquished his Spirit to the Father before physical death...so that he did not taste of it.

Many Christians also say the same.

My definition of gnosis is the same as your definition of a deep personal knowledge of God...actually it is impersonal but that is another post! It is not just something you think or believe in, it is something that is known becauseit has been experienced. And it is a heart knowing. Example is Peter's revelation from the Father regarding Jesus's identity.

This knowledge of God comes by revelation or as some call it, remembrance.

I do not give credence to past writings whether they are of Christian origin or what is called Gnostic unless what is written resonates with the deep knowing I have within. Many Gnostic orders may have gone astray after those with a heart based connection died off leaving their written writings behind. Those that followed did not have their own connection in stillness and so only understood written gnosis mentally. Perhaps that is the reason for all the distortion you have mentioned above.

I find nothing in the epistles of John speaking out against gnosis. In fact, Revelation and the Gospel of John are two of the most significant offerings of written gnosis that exist today.

vivian
Vivian, be patient with me as I try to put all you're saying together. Do I have the following assertions correct:

1. You believe that there is a Jesus-Aeon which has been created by negative engergies, etc., and which is the object of Christian worship.

2. When Jesus walked the earth he was in communion with the Christ consciousness, but was not necessarily the Christ Himself. Jesus and Christ are basically two different entities.

3. Gnosis, or special, mystical knowledge is the true path to union with the primary God or Father.

4. Jesus died spiritually on the cross (released his spirit) so that He really did not endure death.

5. There are mysteries which seekers must be initiated into in order to have the special gnosis required for union with the Ultimate Ground of Being (God).

Could you please correct any of the above if they are not, in fact, what you understand true spirituality to be. It's probably best that we understand each other completely before proceeding to examine each point, and compare it to the Bible. Thanks Vivian!

Vivian

February 10th 2005, 08:53 PM

Vivian, be patient with me as I try to put all you're saying together. Do I have the following assertions correct:

1. You believe that there is a Jesus-Aeon which has been created by negative engergies, etc., and which is the object of Christian worship.

2. When Jesus walked the earth he was in communion with the Christ consciousness, but was not necessarily the Christ Himself. Jesus and Christ are basically two different entities.

3. Gnosis, or special, mystical knowledge is the true path to union with the primary God or Father.

4. Jesus died spiritually on the cross (released his spirit) so that He really did not endure death.

5. There are mysteries which seekers must be initiated into in order to have the special gnosis required for union with the Ultimate Ground of Being (God).

Could you please correct any of the above if they are not, in fact, what you understand true spirituality to be. It's probably best that we understand each other completely before proceeding to examine each point, and compare it to the Bible. Thanks Vivian!

Hello Crusader...

I will be glad to address your points. I think I will also post this as a separate Gnosis thread. There may be others with questions or other insights to add.

1. Yes. The Jesus Aoen is a thought energy creation and is the object of worship for most present day Christians. However, it is only a small part of the enemy that exists on the inner side. There are thought energy creations by the original Luciferic consciousness (the archangel that fell from Heaven) and there are other malevolent entities from the many mansions of the Father's House.

There are also human discarnate beings misleading us.

We are constantly under attack by demons, aeons, archons, the discarnate by whatever names you want to call them.

A human is comprised of both a physical body and subtle bodies - through which he can connect with God/Divine and manifest His Will here in the physical. However, due to its spiritual receiver capabilities, the bodies also pick up on and are influenced by non divine messages, which are actually much louder and stronger than the subtle quiet impulses from God. That is why we must be still to know Him. These louder more insistent voices/thought/impulses come from what is called the astral sphere...the heaven that will be made new along with earth. This heaven differs from the Heaven the Father resides in, for that one is unchanging and eternal.

And the veil between their world and ours is thinning. There are more and more contacts being made...channelings, et visitations, imitation holy spirit outpourings, a guiding voice of an imposter Master (For some it is Buddha, some Arch Angel Michael, St. Germain, Jesus - I have personal expereiece with some of these and know countless others who have experienced similar. Few will accept though that "their" connection with the spirit world is of a questionable source. It is always everyone elses that is wrong and theirs is right. Jack Hayford is one of the more famous that is guided by "the voice of Jesus".)

2. Jesus was/is the Christ Himself. This is how Christ manifests in this realm...through specially chosen sons of man.

When you become One with Christ, Crusader, you will find Jesus there and much more. Much much more. All that has been created will eventually unite back into Christ (for it all came through Him).

Christ then is more than the man Jesus. But Jesus, the son of man is all Christ, or Son of God, for He became One with the only begotten and through this connection One with the Father.

First there was One, and then there were Two - the Infinite and an exact image of the Infinite, except it was Finite existing within the Infinite.

Out of the Two then came the only begotten Son - Christ - Divine Love - the manifestation of the Father in creation.

And out of the Son came all that was created.

For the Christ to come down to this level of creation, to the physical realm, He must manifest through a consciousness that is One with Him. The consciousness then becomes One and the Same as Christ. It is the I Am.

3. For a while, I had no name for that which I now refer to as Gnosis. It was only after several years of seeking that I found others who had experienced the same and they referred to it as such. Gnosis then are the keys of knowledge that come from the Father into our consciousness to unlock the doors, tear down the veils, that block our connection with the Kingdom - just as the veil in the temple separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place. Did you know that the temple is a map of the human body? The most Holy place is that place within us where we commune with the Divine.

Jesus brought these keys with Him, as Christ says in Revelation "I have the keys of David". The Tabernacle of David is a picture of a son of man with all the veils torn down - constant and continual communion with the Father while in the physical realm. It is a picture of the coming Messiah.

The gnosis keys are vibrations realized as words or phrases that are like rockets in our minds. God is always speaking them to them to us, but we cannot always hear.

The "hidden knowledge" or written gnosis that you are referring to can contain these keys in the vibration behind the words. They in and of themselves though are of little use unless they work to unveil our minds to an awareness of the Kingdom within.

Many keys can be found in the words of Jesus that are presented in the Bible. It was in both the Old Testament and the New Testament that I found keys unlocking my consciousness.

I have heard it said that there will also be keys contained in the forthcoming manifestation of the events of the end times. Right now they remain hidden/sealed in John's written gnosis.

The true path to union with God is found when our hearts are awakened and we are subsequently led to repent of or turn away from the life we are living in the world, just as in the story of the prodigal son. While living in the far country he was awakened to memories of His Father's House. He then repented, turned away from this life of self seeking survival, pleasure and vanity and began - fully focused on his Father - his journey Home. This is the same that is shown over and over in the Teachings of Jesus and those of His disciples. We must leave all behind, all that we are attached to in this world, all that is mammon - which is more than mere money - it is all material possessions, all worldly relationships. We must deny our self, pick up our cross, and follow Him.

We have not yet repented if our focus is on anything in this world - house, hobbies, church, spouse, friends, children (Not that we relinquish our proper responsibilities for others, just our attachment to them. And this is not easy. Remember the rich young man? Paul also talks about this in his epistles. Dead to self. Alive in Christ!).

We cannot serve two masters, we cannot serve this world and God and His Kingdom at the same time. And His Kingdom is not of this world. Service while in this world, though, is essential, for the path Home is walked in loving service on behalf of all of humanity. However our concept of service - how best to serve humanity - changes as we progress in our journey.

4. Jesus died in two ways. He died to his ego, "it is finished." And His physical body died, but He only experienced the physical death process up to a certain point. Did not his Spirit leave his body upon His command and not by force upon physical death?

5. The mysteries aren’t necessary for union with God. They are the knowings that we accumulate as we draw near. The glass gets a little less dim as we journey until finally we see face to face. In past times, though, this has been a slow journey. But it is said, is it not, that for some of us this will occur in a twinkling of an eye with the return of Christ? It is also said though they few will have repented and be ready.

This is a journey of the heart and wherever your treasure is so is your heart. If your treasure is still in this temporal world of life and death – career, house, children, hobbies, friends, church – then that is what you will receive. But if your treasure is the Kingdom that can be found within – the Eternal world of Life, then this you will receive.

He who loves the world does not have the Love of the Father in him.

vivian

Duplicate post of new thread here:http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47502

InChristAlways

March 2nd 2005, 12:08 AM

Israel still fails to see the messianic prohecies of God being manifested in the flesh to redeem them and cleanse them. They also don't realize that after the messiah came, destruction also would follow. Notice how the prophets speak in the "past tense" for a future event.

Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts. 2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He like a refiner's fire And like launderer's soap. [i]3 He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi, And purge them as gold and silver, That they may offer to the LORD An offering in righteousness.

Isaiah 40:1 "Comfort, yes, comfort My people!" Says your God. 2 "Speak comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her, That her warfare is ended, That her iniquity is pardoned; For she has received from the LORD's hand Double for all her sins." 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.

Revelation 18:6 "Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

technomage

November 27th 2005, 10:05 PM

Every human being possesses an individual magnetic radiation field (aura), which is populated by that person’s thoughts and desires, colored by the quality and nature of the thought and desire that fills it, and this personal field, being magnetic, both attracts and repels certain powers and forces from the surrounding planetary aura. This is the nature of the human microcosm: man is an electromagnetic being.

Only true as an analogy, not as an actual physical reality: any such EM-energy field would denature the proteins in our flesh, resulting in rapid death. It is ... not an auspicious start to your thesis--and indeed, with such a start as you have had, the ending is not at all surprising.

You attempt to appropriate the terminology of physical phenomena (that you do not understand) to explain a spiritual phenomenon. In doing so, you display your own confusion. Others react to you as a fool--not because they are "spiritually unenlightened," but because you are, indeed, speaking foolishly.

Enough, Vivian: not every assertion that is "supressed" is "hidden wisdom."

John from Ebla

November 28th 2005, 12:55 AM

I am not too versed in the history of what is called "The Gnostics". What I refer to as gnosis is the heart led inner knowing that we have of God when we are still before Him.

Some of the knowledge/gnosis received has been written down. This may be what you mean by hidden, occult knowledge. Jesus was clear that there were levels of teachings for not all were ready for the mysteries. ANd while alluded to in scripture by Jesus and Paul, these mysteries are not directly addressed.

They are the deeper meanings of the parables that Jesus taught his disciples when he took them away from the masses.

The written gnosis coincide with what Christ reveals in private to an earnest seeker with a stilled mind and a pure heart.

I have read that St. Augustine was quite upset when he himself was not able to make the connection to God in stillness, so the Manichurians would not release their higher teachings to him. Augustine then, out of revenge, killed the Manichurians and had their heads displayed on stakes as heretics.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus was Christ incarnate.

Jesus had multiple purposes for incarnation. One was to show us the way, another was as a gatekeeper. There was also great significance in his denial of Satan. He also bore the debts/karma of humanity. And not least was to reveal God's Love to humanity.

Gnosis reveals that Jesus' body died on the cross, but that he relinquished his Spirit to the Father before physical death...so that he did not taste of it.

Many Christians also say the same.

My definition of gnosis is the same as your definition of a deep personal knowledge of God...actually it is impersonal but that is another post! It is not just something you think or believe in, it is something that is known becauseit has been experienced. And it is a heart knowing. Example is Peter's revelation from the Father regarding Jesus's identity.

This knowledge of God comes by revelation or as some call it, remembrance.

I do not give credence to past writings whether they are of Christian origin or what is called Gnostic unless what is written resonates with the deep knowing I have within. Many Gnostic orders may have gone astray after those with a heart based connection died off leaving their written writings behind. Those that followed did not have their own connection in stillness and so only understood written gnosis mentally. Perhaps that is the reason for all the distortion you have mentioned above.

I find nothing in the epistles of John speaking out against gnosis. In fact, Revelation and the Gospel of John are two of the most significant offerings of written gnosis that exist today.

vivian

Vivian,

Do you believe as in the teaching by "Earl Doherty (The Jesus Puzzle).

According to Doherty the apostles did not really see Jesus after he was raised from the dead, and he never raised physically from the dead- it was all of a spiritual nature happening in the Heavenly realms and in the minds of the apostles. Is this what you are saying?

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 01:55 AM

Vivian,

Do you believe as in the teaching by "Earl Doherty (The Jesus Puzzle).

According to Doherty the apostles did not really see Jesus after he was raised from the dead, and he never raised physically from the dead- it was all of a spiritual nature happening in the Heavenly realms and in the minds of the apostles. Is this what you are saying?

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Hi John.

I am not familiar with Earl Doherty or The Jesus Puzzle, but would say according to what you offer here, I am not in agreement with his teachings.

I have no reason to question any of the Gospels or writings of Jesus' Apostles, in fact they resonate deeply with what is known in my heart.

St. Paul's teachings are at a lower level, more milk as he says, than those of the other Apostles and certain those of Jesus, which carry a higher vibration or energy, and can be confusing on several accounts, especially for those trying to discover truth through their study instead of using them as confirmation of what is already known.

And so to answer your question specifically, the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus indeed did happen just as recorded in the New Testament. The actual journey of His life and death and resurrection is a testament of the Way of Salvation just as are His Teachings.

viv

John from Ebla

November 28th 2005, 02:14 AM

Hi John.

And so to answer your question specifically, the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus indeed did happen just as recorded in the New Testament. The actual journey of His life and death and resurrection is a testament of the Way of Salvation just as are His Teachings.

So it is a physical resurrection of Jesus that you believe in, and a physical return of the same Jesus? :smile:

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 02:19 AM

Only true as an analogy, not as an actual physical reality: any such EM-energy field would denature the proteins in our flesh, resulting in rapid death. It is ... not an auspicious start to your thesis--and indeed, with such a start as you have had, the ending is not at all surprising.

You attempt to appropriate the terminology of physical phenomena (that you do not understand) to explain a spiritual phenomenon. In doing so, you display your own confusion.

Hello Justin,

This is not the first time on Tweb that you have spoken of things you have no knowledge of as though you were a altruistic expert guarding the ignorant masses from misinformation!

I too was catagorized as a genius in school so if you would like to wage a brain cell war, you will find that you will be well matched.

However, I am not interested in arguing what is and isn't possible given your limited understanding of natural and subnatural science when the existence of this phenomena is well known and documented by many who have experienced it in themselves and in others.

I have seen the Jesus Aeon at work trying to manipulate my own thoughts and feelings and in tears witnessed as it has done the same in the innocent minds of humanity, keeping them imprisoned, veiled and separated from true understanding of themselves, God and all of His creation.

Humanity is imprisoned, enslaved by the minions and principalities of evil and it is from this enslavement that Jesus came to set us free.

This freedom can only be found by denying our self, picking up our cross (which is our selfish self) and carrying it as we follow in the same footsteps that he walked.

1 John 2:6

He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

vivian

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 02:34 AM

So it is a physical resurrection of Jesus that you believe in, and a physical return of the same Jesus? :smile:

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Hello again John.

No, it will not be the same.

Jesus did not leave clothed in the same flesh that he donned before His death, but in a transfigured body.

And any who have tasted of the tiniest trickle of Christ know that when He comes in Power all flesh and blood will be incinerated as will the rest of the earth and all the works of man.

It will be like lightning flashing across the sky, destroying all physical forms.

2 Peter 3:10

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

edited to add: Those souls who know Christ and who are known by Him, thereby resonating with His Power and not shrinking from it, will be raptured from their physical forms, their souls transfigured in a twinkling of an eye and the physical body left to be incinerated with all of earth.

The souls of those who do not believe in Christ, those who cling to their bodies and the rest of physical earth will experience a physical death.

viv

John from Ebla

November 28th 2005, 03:15 AM

Hello again John.

No, it will not be the same.

Jesus did not leave clothed in the same flesh that he donned before His death, but in a transfigured body.

l agree, he now has immortality and sits on the throne of His Father as king Of Kings and Lord of Lords- the same Jesus that accended into the Hevanes, will decend. Human flesh and Human Blood does not have immortality and cannot enter the kingdom of God I Corinthians 15:50

The resurrection body has no need of blood as its life (to sustain it) because its nature will not be the same.

And any who have tasted of the tiniest trickle of Christ know that when He comes in Power all flesh and blood will be incinerated as will the rest of the earth and all the works of man..

The earth and the Heaven, yes -when the New heaven and new earth is created Isaiah 65:17

It will be like lightning flashing across the sky, destroying all physical forms.

2 Peter 3:10

[i]But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. .

Yes- this gives no hope for the mere human messiah that Jews and looking for (the ani-chirst) A political leader that grants them peace. ( But this is a little off- topic)

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 04:08 AM

l agree, he now has immortality and sits on the throne of His Father as king Of Kings and Lord of Lords- the same Jesus that accended into the Hevanes, will decend. Human flesh and Human Blood does not have immortality and cannot enter the kingdom of God I Corinthians 15:50

The resurrection body has no need of blood as its life (to sustain it) because its nature will not be the same.

The earth and the Heaven, yes -when the New heaven and new earth is created Isaiah 65:17

Yes- this gives no hope for the mere human messiah that Jews and looking for (the ani-chirst) A political leader that grants them peace. ( But this is a little off- topic)

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Hi John.

In reading through this exchange, we have touched in our agreement on what is most crucial for humanity to understand in the coming years...

Prepare ye the Way of the Lord. Repent and make ready for His Return.

And actually nothing stated in your post is off topic. The multifarious delusions of mankind are all enforced and even originate with the evil that resides in the heavenly spheres associated with earth.

The Jesus Aeon is but one example.

And in case it was missed, I edited the previous post to add:

Those souls who know Christ and who are known by Him, thereby resonating with His Power and not shrinking from it, will be raptured from their physical forms, their souls transfigured in a twinkling of an eye and the physical body left to be incinerated with all of earth.

The souls of those who do not believe in Christ, those who cling to their bodies and the rest of physical earth will experience a physical death.

With the falling away of the physical earth and its heaven, the New Heaven and Earth will appear/be revealed, the Garden of Eden restored, the heavens being melted, cleansed of the evil minions and principalities that had been imprisoning mankind.

viv

John from Ebla

November 28th 2005, 05:15 AM

Hi John.

In case it was missed, I edited the previous post to add:

[I]Those souls who know Christ and who are known by Him, thereby resonating with His Power and not shrinking from it, will be raptured from their physical forms, their souls transfigured in a twinkling of an eye and the physical body left to be incinerated with all of earth.

Our physical bodies see decay and destruction after been buried- according to Peter in, Acts 2:28 , Jesus did not see decay or destruction of his body- his body was raised to immortality. So once again l am a little confused- what scriptures can you show that support your hypnosis about the following "will be raptured from their physical forms, their souls transfigured in a twinkling of an eye and the physical body left to be incinerated with all of earth”

My soul is as my spirit without visible form- so you are not saying that Jesus was raised in the body with immortality – you are teaching the Grecian Myth about the soul been trapped in the body and waiting to be released.

Kind regards
John From Ebla

technomage

November 28th 2005, 10:52 AM

Hello Justin,

This is not the first time on Tweb that you have spoken of things you have no knowledge of as though you were a altruistic expert guarding the ignorant masses from misinformation!

You know, Vivian, disagreement with you is not "no knowledge." I'm quite familiar with the theory you espoused in your OP. The problem is not one of ignorance on my part, but error--well meaning, but error nonetheless--on yours.

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 04:30 PM

Our physical bodies see decay and destruction after been buried- according to Peter in, Acts 2:28 , Jesus did not see decay or destruction of his body- his body was raised to immortality. So once again l am a little confused- what scriptures can you show that support your hypnosis about the following

Quote: Originally posted by Vivian
"will be raptured from their physical forms, their souls transfigured in a twinkling of an eye and the physical body left to be incinerated with all of earth”

My soul is as my spirit without visible form- so you are not saying that Jesus was raised in the body with immortality – you are teaching the Grecian Myth about the soul been trapped in the body and waiting to be released.

Kind regards
John From Ebla

Hello once again John.

Our souls actual do have form which, for the more spiritually sensitive, is visible.

For simplicity's sake we can call them 'ghosts'.

It is only our spirit, the child of God made in His image, that is without form. Spirit begets spirit. Our soul is the form that God clothes His children in.

When our souls fell, we became clothed in an additional body, a physical body, as did the Garden of Eden and all the plants and animals that dwelled there becoming the world we see around us. Some call falling into greater denisities, falling farther away from God's Light, crystallizing. Comparable to water freezing.

A dense body of flesh and blood is only needed to function in fallen dense realms such as this one. Within the unfallen, divine realms, a much less dense body, a soul, is all that is needed to function. Denser forms will naturally dissolve/melt in the Light. But because of our clinging to our body and fear of physical demise, this naturally dissolving is perceived to be incineration by the human mind.

As the soul moves closer to the Father, its more dense layers will dissolve leaving only the spirit to unite as One with its Father.

I am not clear regarding what sort of body Jesus was clothed in when, following His resurrection, He encountered Mary telling her not to touch Him for He had not yet been to the Father, but know that when He ascended to the Father, His physical body and even His soul dissolved, leaving only His Spirit to unite as One.

And then when He returned to our density, He donned His now transfigured soul and physical body allowing Him to be perceivable by His disciples with only their mundane senses; and then when He again ascended, having no more need of His physical body, it dissolved in God's Light.

I am not familiar with the Grecian myth and am actually teaching as Paul did...

1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

It is not that the soul is trapped in the body, John, waiting to be released. The soul is imprisoned in this world and part of that imprisonment is the burden of our physical tents.

I hope this offers clarity to my previous comments and at the least offer you a different perspective on what humans perceive as God's burning fire. It is only here that the sacred fire that burns away that which separates us from God is considered 'bad'.

God is a burning fire.

viv

Vivian

November 28th 2005, 05:42 PM

You know, Vivian, disagreement with you is not "no knowledge." I'm quite familiar with the theory you espoused in your OP. The problem is not one of ignorance on my part, but error--well meaning, but error nonetheless--on yours.

I am replying, Justin, only for the sake of others reading this thread.

While theory is interesting for speculation, it certainly is not enough for knowledge. Not even a scientist would stop with theory, but rather put it to an experiment to see if that theory was valid.

Theory leaves the idea in the mind. Application puts it into practice.

Through scientific discovery, I know that aeons/thought forms exist. But, as you state, an EM-energy field would result in our disintigration and so it is logical to conclude that aeons/thoughts are made of a different substance than disintigrating EM-energy.

If anyone reading this is interested in performing their own scientific discovery regarding the existence of aeons, try considering the following while you move around in your day to day life.

Aeons will pull us into a thinking or feeling state that provides them with the energetic food that is necessary for their continued existence. By paying attention to sudden shifts in our thoughts and feelings, we can detect the presence of aeonic influence. For example, the Build-A-Bear Stores have a large and powerful aeon behind them pushing consumers to delight in the products and overspend.

When I go into a Build-A-Bear store, my mind suddenly becomes filled with thoughts about how cute the bears and clothes are, even causing me to tear up. Those I care for come to mind and I begin to plan to buy them gifts of bears, each clothed in a unique outfit, especially selected for them!

It is odd that these wonderful, warm, feelings and thoughts about Build-A-Bears begin and end with my entering and leaving the store. Odd also that if I refuse the warm and cozy thoughts and feelings, I suddenly will become clouded mentally, frequently getting a headache which, like the warm fuzzy feelings ends when I walk out of the store.

The same warm and cozy, teary feelings are frequently had in church gatherings and called 'Holy Spirit' experiences. They are especially strong during the worship music program. Funny though, that these same feelings can be had at non church functions. I've had them in sorority gatherings.

After having experienced a true taste of Christ, upon returning to church, I found that God did not feel like the same god at church. The church god only seemed to draw me into selfish sensory experiences, where in feeling special and loved by 'God', I though I was worshipping Him. In actuality, I was only worshipping my self, my specialness, my salvation, my blessings. Me me me mine mine mine I I I.

I have recently seen that there is also a Girl Scout aeon.

My daughter's brownie troop leader began to attend the regional gatherings, meeting with men and women who had dedicated their lives to the Girl Scout organization. At one meeting, she claims to have been brought to tears in coming to the awareness of how wonderful Girl Scouts is and has now dedicated her own life to the organization.

Even now she tears up when talking of Girl Scouts and those who give generously to the program, inviting everyone she knows to join in the same warm and cozy feelings.

Aeons, and all minions and principalities of evil, seek to pull our energy, thoughts, and attention away from God, whose Kingdom is not of this world, and into ourselves or the treasures of this world (such as teddy bears!)

Humanity has been hoodwinked into believing that such pleasure and enjoyment is good.

Remember that in the days of Noah, when the earth was filled with evil, everyone was busy having a merry old time, eating, and drinking and giving in marriage.

Evil, or that which separates us from God, wears many masks.

If you would like to read about aeons in the Bible, check out the unfaithful bride's lovers in Ezekiel 16. It is a good picture of the influence of aeons on humanity.

These aeonic lovers are the same false gods that pulled Israel away from the one true God.

vivian

John from Ebla

November 29th 2005, 02:57 AM

Hello once again John.

Our souls actual do have form which, for the more spiritually sensitive, is visible.

You can see a body but you do not see the soul or the Spirit of the body.

1Thes 5:23 says, "I pray God your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" The body of Jesus was ressurected to immortality- and body incorperates the soul and the spirit.

So you do seem to be teaching the Grecian Myth about the soul been trapped in the body and waiting to be released.

Kind regards
John From Ebla